Distraught after home move, no bass!

Dare I ask...have you checked the speaker connections?  Out of phase?  

Yes i checked that, it sounds very strange with one phase reversed and didnt do anything to revive the bass. I jist cant figure out why the bass seems to hang at head height like fog. Sit down and you just get the (albeit beautiful) soundstage with no bottom end ????

Although very different speakers and room, this may be a similar issue to that discussed in another current thread, so worth looking up there about room and speaker placement, cancellations and using REW to assess the room:

https://forums.naimaudio.com/t...cal-scala-v2-utopia?

Speakers will show contrasting bass response in different rooms as you have found out. Perhaps in your case it's more severe than you may have envisaged. I have also moved to a new place earlier this year and the speakers show a different bass response. In my case, there was also a reduction in bass punch but most of the bass (lower and mid-bass) can still be heard and/or felt. It's just that the solidity or punch of the bass is slightly reduced. 

When I first set up the whole system in the new room, the bass sounded horrendous. It's just like what you have described, a severe lack of bass as it's all midrange and treble. Music sounded tinny as if a chunk at the bottom was missing. After 2 to 3 months of constant experimentation with speaker placement and setting-up (placement of rack and equipment, cabling etc.), the bass response slowly improved to an acceptable level. I am not sure whether it's partly due to acclimatisation of the ears or brain but I do think that the optimisation of the system, particularly the placement of speakers have played a role. 

I'd suggest putting the spikes on and continue to work on the speaker placement. Chances are you will not obtain the same bass performance of the speakers in the old room but it is likely that things will improve with further optimisation of set up in the new room. Perhaps others here will offer you some better suggestions. 

Good luck. 

Give it 2 weeks then panic 

Tyranniux posted:

Best regards, a man with less hair than he had 2 days ago..

At least you are saving on comb wear.

What was the rear wall and floor type in the old room? And in the new?

Have you followed Naim's positioning guidelines in the Ovator manual? 1m behind looks like the upper limit to me.

It might be just different and you are really not used to it being more linear. Like when those used to lesser hi-fi hear a proper system, they think it sounds very wrong and want to grab at tone controls that aren't there.

I'm not saying this is what has befallen you. However, I've lived with what my current system sounds like in a room with lots of wood panelling and a very sprung floor. Whatever that does, good or bad, I have gotten very used to it and am sure would be in for a shock if I heard my system in a less "hot" environment.

Maybe just give it a while and after a few weeks as [@mention:44225913049030173] wisely said, and only then panic. In the mean time ask yourself, is the bass really gone or is it just more linear?

Thanks for the suggestions so far all. I have rechecked the ovator guidelines and am within the sweetspot. As before, regardless of position between 0m15m and 1m from rear wall there is little difference in bass response and neither does it much improve when movong the listening position from 1.5m away to 3m away, there dont appear to be any nodes in the room.

What is baffling me is that whilst there dint appear to be any strong nodes front to back in the room, there is definitely a strong one in the vertical plane, i.e ..if i stand up vs sat down. I cant figure out how this is happening. Has anyone experiwnced this before? 

I may get the headphones out and see what sort of bass levels to expect from certain songs to compare but from taking a quick measurement with a non calibrated mic i can see the response below 150hz is 20db down so its not linear by any stretch.

I think wall construction is plasterboard over breezeblock, airgap and then brick so same as before.

Best regards

The bass returning on standing is a clear indication that there are room effects at play. Be patient and be prepared to be flexible with the room layout, including where you sit. REW as mentioned in the other thread can make the process easier.

 

What is baffling me is that whilst there dint appear to be any strong nodes front to back in the room, there is definitely a strong one in the vertical plane, i.e ..if i stand up vs sat down. I cant figure out how this is happening. Has anyone experiwnced this before? 

 

It is at exactly 50% of the height of your room? Can you try something with a diagonal board maybe? I've not tried that before - but I had great results in changing odd reflections by cushions / towels etc ...

REW, or even a simple tone generator would be much quicker for finding out what is going on than trying to find music with bass - once you know the response does extend adequately to where it should with no major ‘holes’ then you can ‘tune’ with music to find what best matches your taste.

Start with the Room Simulation dialogue of REW.  Move the simulated speakers and simulated listening position around, see what effect it has on the frequency response (particularly the bass); move them in the direction that gives the flattest LF response.  Then try starting at completely different positions!

Repeating this a few times will give you candidate starting positions to try out.  When you get a calibrated microphone you can measure and optimise the response properly.

Until then

Don't Panic.

Maybe the Ovators just don’t suit your room, I had Ovators and couldn’t get them to sound even half decent when others say how fantastic they are, I put it down to my room not being compatible so I moved them on. Speaker choice is a nightmare.

Nick

Whenever my system is down for more than an hour or two it always takes a few days to return to normal as the electronics stabilise. And that's without moving anything. I'd give it a few days before rushing to judgement....

Thanks all. As a quick test i have moved the sofa back wards towards the rear wall and this has massively improved the bottom end and doesnt seem to boom so i think that may be the solution. Ill keep tinkering at any rate

Try again with speakers positioning.

In my experience, also 0.5 cm does a lot of difference.

M.

Just moved house 3 months ago and the new room sounded terrible; too bright with no bass. Put more canvas prints up, moved Kudos speakers and furniture around and I wish I knew what I did but now it sounds great again. Be patient, try more options and it will come. Or ultimately change speakers! 

Well foljs, thought id give you an update.

Nice thick curtains on patio door on left side of room, 5 nice canvases of the young un around the right and rear wall all filled with 30mm high density rock wool and speakers pulled out to 31cm from rear wall and its singing ????

Thanks all for advice

Best regards

A couple of things.......... to try ...... 

1. Try moving the speakers nearer the corners (I know this is not deemed correct)  and see if this works ..... it should - as - bass should be launched from two sides and floor. Then try gradually moving speakers away from corners........... a slow process. If this fails.......... (all this assumes phase is correct!)

2. Connect your laptop to the set up ......... and do a step by step sweep.....and use a db meter on phone to see what the sound difference is....

3. If you use Roon and you cannot move speakers for domestic reasons - try using the dsp to compensate - be very careful - ......... (you could try using free version of Roon) There is also a laptop room analysis program which also does dsp (can't remember name)....you will need a calibrated usb mic. for this.......

Indeed, consideration of DSP might be appropriate at some point, but only after exhausting other solutions especially the room - and a warning: it is alright for a dip in response, but NEVER use it to try to overcome bass cancellation: it won't work and could damage the speakers. Now matter how much power you pump into the speakers cancellation will always cancel, and every 3dB attempted is double the amp's power to the speaker. Cancellation can only be countered by movement of speaker or listening position, or room treatment.