Best upgrade path for me with fewest boxes possible?

You seem to have answered the question with regard to your identified options, next immediately obvious after adding hicap is see if changing NDX for NDX2 is worthwhile with the hicap in place as well. But it seems you’re looking for other ideas. Active speakers will minimise box count rise, allowing a preamp upgrade. 

Migrate to NDX2/282/HCdr/250dr by acquiring a HCdr and then a 282 first.

or for less expense and possibly as good if your speakers are easy to drive...

NDX/XPSdr/282/200dr

Really depends on budget and speakers. Swaping in a 202 to the above system would save a packet and also be cracking.

Innocent Bystander posted:

You seem to have answered the question with regard to your identified options, next immediately obvious after adding hicap is see if changing NDX for NDX2 is worthwhile with the hicap in place as well. But it seems you’re looking for other ideas. Active speakers will minimise box count rise, allowing a preamp upgrade. 

Thanks, yes I’ve just upgraded my speakers actually so wasn’t thinking about going active. 

Yes I was thinking of alternatives that would work without making the system a mullet but certainly adding enhancements. 

As I said I listened to the items above but the XPS DR and NDX2 I couldn’t really tell a difference but the HICAP DR was obvious. 

Thanks again

If you didn’t hear much difference from the XPS, but a lot from the Hicap, it doesn’t take a genius to work out what to do. 

hungryhalibut posted:

If you didn’t hear much difference from the XPS, but a lot from the Hicap, it doesn’t take a genius to work out what to do. 

Ok so from that comment I assume you mean it’s the Preamp that I am noticing has more of an impact on sound so would a logical approach be to get a Supercap over a Hicap as it would give better access to better preamps. Hicap I can only go 282 but Supercap would work on 282 plus 252. 

I'd work out your budget and where you want to get to (what's wrong with the present setup ?) and then go and listen to a few options to decide the best route.

You've got some nice components there - I'd be tempted to give the NDX2 a listen as that with the SN2 and Totems should be a very nice combination. Add a PSU to the NDX2 later on if you want a bit more.

james n posted:

I'd work out your budget and where you want to get to (what's wrong with the present setup ?) and then go and listen to a few options to decide the best route.

You've got some nice components there - I'd be tempted to give the NDX2 a listen as that with the SN2 and Totems should be a very nice combination. Add a PSU to the NDX2 later on if you want a bit more.

Thanks James, I think you may have missed my comment above. I agree an NDX2 and a power supply would be a good upgrade on paper but I personally couldn’t hear much of a difference from what I have already. 

If I am upgrading, I want an upgrade. 

James’s points are very sensible. Where do you want to get to? What is your budget? 

A NDX, 282, Hicap, 250DR would be a great system. 

A Supercap would be better but then you are looking at upping the source as well. 

Which comes back to knowing where you want to get to and how much you have to spend. 

Add a Hugo to upgrade the NDX, and as it is so small as to be easily hidden it doesn’t count as a box... (or Chord Qutest, but a bit bigger, TT even bigger, but still small).

hungryhalibut posted:

James’s points are very sensible. Where do you want to get to? What is your budget? 

A NDX, 282, Hicap, 250DR would be a great system. 

A Supercap would be better but then you are looking at upping the source as well. 

Which comes back to knowing where you want to get to and how much you have to spend. 

Thanks, well in theory I am 35 years off of the retirement system so I have time and technology on my side so I don’t directly have a budget or end goal. 

I just want to enjoy the music and when I feel like it and the time is right upgrade something to enhance the experience but not change for the sake of change. 

Sorry this is vague but it’s a process with several paths and I only look to seek the advice from those who have taken such paths over many years and may have feedback on what route they would take if they could do it again and knew what they know now. 

Thanks again

Popeye posted:

james n posted:

I'd work out your budget and where you want to get to (what's wrong with the present setup ?) and then go and listen to a few options to decide the best route.

You've got some nice components there - I'd be tempted to give the NDX2 a listen as that with the SN2 and Totems should be a very nice combination. Add a PSU to the NDX2 later on if you want a bit more.

Thanks James, I think you may have missed my comment above. I agree an NDX2 and a power supply would be a good upgrade on paper but I personally couldn’t hear much of a difference from what I have already. 

If I am upgrading, I want an upgrade. 

Precisely - there’s a lot of ‘on paper’ options bandied around on this forum, some of which, I suspect, the writers have never actually experienced. Reviews, opinions and specifications are all well and good, but ultimately it has to be your ears, in your environment, which count. And whatever you do, don’t forget to factor in the speakers!

Popeye posted:

hungryhalibut posted:

James’s points are very sensible. Where do you want to get to? What is your budget? 

A NDX, 282, Hicap, 250DR would be a great system. 

A Supercap would be better but then you are looking at upping the source as well. 

Which comes back to knowing where you want to get to and how much you have to spend. 

Thanks, well in theory I am 35 years off of the retirement system so I have time and technology on my side so I don’t directly have a budget or end goal. 

I just want to enjoy the music and when I feel like it and the time is right upgrade something to enhance the experience but not change for the sake of change. 

Sorry this is vague but it’s a process with several paths and I only look to seek the advice from those who have taken such paths over many years and may have feedback on what route they would take if they could do it again and knew what they know now. 

Thanks again

Unfortunately I’ve owned more Naim boxes than I care to remember, including the 42, 32, 72, 102, 82, 122x, 202, 252 and 552, and that’s just the preamps. I’ve had big systems, little systems, ones a can afford and those I can’t. I’ve spent years fiddling about, and wasted goodness knows how much. It’s really easy to get stuck into the ‘there must be something better’ or ‘what next’ mindset. 

I’ve had enough of huge systems that dominate the place and have settled on something middle sized that fits on one neat rack in the corner and has as few wires as possible. 

So, if you want flexibility to grow the system over time, I’d suggest getting a Hicap and then a 282, and then swap the SN2 for a 250. That will be fine with the NDX. That will keep you occupied and you can see what sources are available in a couple of years time. There is no point getting an XPS if you can’t hear sufficient improvement. Another thing I’ve found is that the 555PS is rather magical. I had one with a CDS3 once, and have one with my box that dare not speak its name. Once you have the 282/250 you may want to think about one of those. It will max out the NDX but will open the door to a used ND555 in a few years. Another thing I’ve discovered is that the 252 is really, really boring. Once you have the 282 I’d say it’s a 552 or nothing. This is just my opinions, based on what I have spend my own money on over the years. Make of it what you will. 

There it is. The “252 is really boring” line. Was waiting for it ????

It’s funny as I find it brilliant but that’s the beauty of this hobby - we all have different ears and the good news is that Naim have something for most pallets.

Or even palates, but yes, we all like different things, and Popeye asked for opinions from people with real experiences. 

That gets my vote for patronising post of the day.

No problem. Don’t worry I know you know more than me or anybody else about this stuff and I’ll know better than to challenge anything you say in future even if tongue in cheek!

If fewest boxes is a priority, you could do a lot worse than a 272 + 555PS (on a par with a 282 acc to other threads on here) paired with a 250DR. Three boxes, cracking quality.

the 252 isn't boring... one can clearly hear that the music (particularly the bass) is more firmly under control with the NAC 252.

But since there is more control, the demand on the source to provide the "engagement", musicality or PRAT increases.

The 202 sounds faster than a 282 which sounds faster than a 252, but in reality what increase is the control over the music and the grip and that is why a 252 sounds slower than the 202....

But will I buy a 252...No I would rather skip that one for a 552.

....I believe in source first and I find the price difference out of my reach between a 282 and a 252.

Same applies to a 552, out of my reach, and I would rather spend my limited budget now on improving my sources. But one day I plan to get a 552.

I guess I do agree with HungryHalibut, but for a different reason.

Innocent Bystander posted:

Add a Hugo to upgrade the NDX, and as it is so small as to be easily hidden it doesn’t count as a box... (or Chord Qutest, but a bit bigger, TT even bigger, but still small).

Indeed that is what I would do.

Popeye posted:

james n posted:

I'd work out your budget and where you want to get to (what's wrong with the present setup ?) and then go and listen to a few options to decide the best route.

You've got some nice components there - I'd be tempted to give the NDX2 a listen as that with the SN2 and Totems should be a very nice combination. Add a PSU to the NDX2 later on if you want a bit more.

Thanks James, I think you may have missed my comment above. I agree an NDX2 and a power supply would be a good upgrade on paper but I personally couldn’t hear much of a difference from what I have already. 

If I am upgrading, I want an upgrade. 

You should demo the 555PSDR with NDX2 rather than XPS to really hear what the PSU can do for an uplift in performance 

Hi Popeye,

if you heard a noticeable improvement with the HiCap added to your SN, but nothing meaningful with any of the upgrades on the streamer side of things, how about the HC plus some nice things like Powerlines and a Fraim or another good support? Just three boxes but (most likely) an all round improvement.

ChrisR_EPL posted:

If fewest boxes is a priority, you could do a lot worse than a 272 + 555PS (on a par with a 282 acc to other threads on here) paired with a 250DR. Three boxes, cracking quality.

This has to be the best 3-box solution presently from Naim.  Right?

Bart posted:

ChrisR_EPL posted:

If fewest boxes is a priority, you could do a lot worse than a 272 + 555PS (on a par with a 282 acc to other threads on here) paired with a 250DR. Three boxes, cracking quality.

This has to be the best 3-box solution presently from Naim.  Right?

Err, I suspect the following 3 box systems may be better:

ND555/555PS/SN2

NDX2/282/200

NDX2/XPS/SN2

The OP has more options available to them than a bag of liquorice allsorts. I think the most intelligent way forward is not to find the best sounding combo but to be honest about the end game system objective and only choose options that take you towards that path. A well balanced system is great. But a short term mullet or monkfish en route to a balanced end game is reasonable.

hungryhalibut posted:

Or even palates, but yes, we all like different things, and Popeye asked for opinions from people with real experiences. 

Last weekend I dusted off the old 52 (Pots8) with the intention of selling it. What a diff to the 252 :-), I bought the 252 a long time ago as part of larger change, going from CDX2 to HDX/NDAC, changing power amp. I never bothered comparing the 52 with the 252.

Since I still had the demo ATC SCM40A:s around I dragged them on top of the Townshend piedestal:s (with the Gaia-feet still on!), connected the 52 and suddenly the 40:s came to life, I had written them off as boring at low levels. Not so with the 52.

I am going to have them all serviced (52, 252 and Supercap) and then decide. But I must admit to now feeling a bit disappointed with the 252 (and myself)

That Olive sound can be quite addictive and like you I preferred the Olive Nap 180nnnnkover it's classic equivalent