Move from Naim Nait 5si to Rotel RA-1570

I would just upgade it to a Naim Nait 5si and call it a day. 

As you have heard it I think you may have answered your own question.

I used my Musical Fidelity V-90 DAC to feed the Rotel instead of the Rotel’s internal DAC and the MF DAC outperforms the Rotel’s built-in DAC!

And I think I am still missing the Naim sound.

I haven’t sold the Naim. I may be heading back to familiar pastures!

I am not surprised.

Just reconnected the Naim! Now to figure out how to get rid of the Rotel.

RaceTripper posted:

I would just upgade it to a Naim Nait 5si and call it a day. 

Just did!

I’m curious: What made you think the Rotel would be an upgrade?

And what originally made you buy a Naim amp rather than another brand? If it was the ‘Naim sound’, why are you surprised that the Rotel sounds different?

I think that the OP may have discovered that MORE watts does not necessarily bring with it better or a more enjoyable performance. If not already done so; I would upgrade the NAIT 5Si with Naim's own NAC A5 cables made up with the 'right angled' plugs by someone who is very experienced with such terminations.

I came from NAD/ROTEL & Marantz to Naim. The former 3 basically have similar sound signatures, which are dead on with what you described your Rotel as. I thought they sounded good ... until I heard Naim.

Innocent Bystander posted:

I’m curious: What made you think the Rotel would be an upgrade?

And what originally made you buy a Naim amp rather than another brand? If it was the ‘Naim sound’, why are you surprised that the Rotel sounds different?

Maybe he spent too much time hearing the Harbeth spiel that all amps sound the same?

I am not surprised by the result! 

reconnect the Naim and you hear that it sounds small, shut in and dark.

Daniel H. posted:

I am not surprised by the result! 

Indeed. The NAIT 5Si is an exceptional amp when partnered with an exceptional source.

Robiwan posted:

reconnect the Naim and you hear that it sounds small, shut in and dark.

What sounds small, shut in and dark?

Innocent Bystander posted:

I’m curious: What made you think the Rotel would be an upgrade?

And what originally made you buy a Naim amp rather than another brand? If it was the ‘Naim sound’, why are you surprised that the Rotel sounds different?

He probably read all the good reviews or saw some B&W demo clips on YouTube that use Rotel amps (both belonging to the same company). While the Naim forums logically tend to promote Naim gear there's a lot of information to out there that says otherwise. It's difficult to know who's opinion to trust.

I’ve never bothered looking at a single utube review of hifi kit -indeed. I don’t see the point at all: totally pointless as the sound is heavily constrained before even whatever one uses to listen.

The RA10 is a nice little punchy amp for a few hundred quid 

Iconoclast posted:

Robiwan posted:

reconnect the Naim and you hear that it sounds small, shut in and dark.

What sounds small, shut in and dark?

the nait 5si

Robiwan posted:

Iconoclast posted:

Robiwan posted:

reconnect the Naim and you hear that it sounds small, shut in and dark.

What sounds small, shut in and dark?

the nait 5si

When my old Harman Kardon integrated died on me many, many years ago I picked up a Rotel RA-1062. Hated it and sold it immediately. I then owned a Cambridge audio 650 (too bright), then a Nait 5i (lots of fun but too thin) and finally an XS 2 (70W). At first I found it sounded dull and lifeless compared to the 5i but after a while I realized that it was much easier to live with and have yet to find a replacement. Mainly for fear of later regretting it or for lack of budget for a sure thing like the SN 2.

Innocent Bystander posted:

I’m curious: What made you think the Rotel would be an upgrade?

And what originally made you buy a Naim amp rather than another brand? If it was the ‘Naim sound’, why are you surprised that the Rotel sounds different?

I have meaning to move my kit to an larger open landing and making it a proper man cave with a soundproof wall. Figured I needed more power. Was also contemplating a pair of Magnepan 0.7s that I heard at a dealer nearby.  Not as a replacement, but as a complementing pair to the Harbeth.

Read that the Magnepans would need more power and current. The Rotel has a provision to manage two speaker sets. 

Figured I would get better performance and enough oomph to handle more demanding speakers.  And for 900 dollars, the used Rotel sounded like it would do the trick from reviews, including one from Steve Gutenberg.

Discovered it didn’t. 

Stephen Tate posted:

Daniel H. posted:

I am not surprised by the result! 

Indeed. The NAIT 5Si is an exceptional amp when partnered with an exceptional source.

What would constitute and exceptional source?

RaghuV posted:

Read that the Magnepans would need more power and current. The Rotel has a provision to manage two speaker sets.  

Figured I would get better performance and enough oomph to handle more demanding speakers.  And for 900 dollars, the used Rotel sounded like it would do the trick from reviews, including one from Steve Gutenberg.

Discovered it didn’t. 

Whilst the continuous power capability of the RA1570 is rated at twice that of the Nait (that’s 3dB), it may be that its peak power - needed for that grip on transients - is no more, maybe less: the Nait claims 300VA, which is five times the rated continuous power, an unusually high margin in the amplifier world, that of  the 1570 unknown but very possibly no greater, maybe even less. With music having at least a moderate dynamic range, the Rotel might not offer any more available power in practice before amplifier clipping.

As for two speaker sets, remember that if two are connected it is a bigger load on the amp.

Of course, there is then the question of the sound of the amp, and, if not identical, which you prefer. What had you heard before you first got the Nait?

RaghuV posted:

I used my Musical Fidelity V-90 DAC to feed the Rotel instead of the Rotel’s internal DAC and the MF DAC outperforms the Rotel’s built-in DAC!

I think this says all.

I have owned Nait, Nait5, 5i (not italic), 5x, Nait XS, Nait XS2* and a couple of Supernait. I still remember when I demoed a pair of Raidho C.1s with a Nait5si, when no amp seemed able to extract enough sound from them and being speechless; and the famous quote by David Wilson (of Wilson Audio) that a rumor wants having replied to someone complaining about the difficulty of driving his speakers, 'Try a pair of Sophia with a Nait 5si'.

Moral: stick to your 5si and let the Rotel to those who believe that the plainest, the ugliest, the less assuming is by default also the best sounding. It won't feel alone on a store's shelf, in the company of generations of NADs... 

Enjoy!

Max

* My current amp, and the one which has finally reconciled me with home music replay.

When I bought a UQ2 a couple of years back I auditioned a Rotel with built in Dac might be your one and an Arcam fmj something and also the upright Nad 7 something D anyway both the Rotel and the Arcam where disappointing big powerful lifeless beasts, the Nad was better but then the dealer pulled out this beautiful diminutive little black box and wow I mean it really, really was night and day,  double the price for half the amp that was ten times better.

Innocent Bystander posted:

RaghuV posted:

Read that the Magnepans would need more power and current. The Rotel has a provision to manage two speaker sets.  

Figured I would get better performance and enough oomph to handle more demanding speakers.  And for 900 dollars, the used Rotel sounded like it would do the trick from reviews, including one from Steve Gutenberg.

Discovered it didn’t. 

Whilst the continuous power capability of the RA1570 is rated at twice that of the Nait (that’s 3dB), it may be that its peak power - needed for that grip on transients - is no more, maybe less: the Nait claims 300VA, which is five times the rated continuous power, an unusually high margin in the amplifier world, that of  the 1570 unknown but very possibly no greater, maybe even less. With music having at least a moderate dynamic range, the Rotel might not offer any more available power in practice before amplifier clipping.

As for two speaker sets, remember that if two are connected it is a bigger load on the amp.

Of course, there is then the question of the sound of the amp, and, if not identical, which you prefer. What had you heard before you first got the Nait?

Befor the Naim, I used a Yamaha RX-2700 receiver with B&W 704s, with B&W gear for a 5.1 setup. Didn’t really enjoy music as much through this setup in 2.1.

Moved to Naim 5si with KEF LS50 for dedicated music in India. 

I added a pair of Harbeth 30.1s when I moved to the US.

Been listening to the Mac Mini, Audirvana Plus, Musical Fidelity V-90 DAC with the Naim and the Harbeth for circa a year.