new pre-loved NDS and Qnap setup help

Posted by: piggy on 10 December 2018

I decided to take a punt and will be buying a pre-loved NDS (2018 model) and a QNAP-TS-253b NAS with 2 x 2tb WD Red drives.

Will be replacing my much loved CDS3. Been planning for this day so have ripped around 1500cd's onto a Mac Mini using dBpoweramp and Audivana which I used to test as a UpNP server over Wireless to try out on a Muso in my kitchen.

Also bought a 2960-8 port Switch after searching on this forum so It will all be wired up to main system 552/300 non DR.

Just looking for any tips or pointers, presume I can just copy my music folder from my Mac into the Music Station on the QNAP? Anything else to optimise?

Andy 

 

Posted on: 10 December 2018 by sjbabbey

I'd suggest installing a dedicated UPnP server such as Asset or Minimserver onto your QNAP rather than using QNAP's Music Station and transfering your music files into the QNAP's Multimedia folder once you've decided on how you want to structure your music library e.g. by Artist/Album.

This will make it easier if you wish to have the option of browsing your library by folder rather than by metadata categories.

Posted on: 10 December 2018 by piggy

I knew I forgot something, be easier once I get the NAS and have a play but but yes will install Asset first.

Thanks, Andy 

Posted on: 11 December 2018 by Gavin B

I made pretty much the exact same switch too - swapping my CDS3 for a 2018 barely used NDS. It sounds fantastic!

Install Asset as suggested, and simply point it at the home folder for your music. There's a few other things you can play around with too - setting it to transcode to WAV (depending what you ripped to) and changing the browse structure. I prefer to browse by Album Artist / Album rather than Artist / Album.

Posted on: 11 December 2018 by antony d

my NAS is a QNAP HS 210, run Asset and never had any issues since installing back in 2014

I would make sure your firm ware on the QNAP is upto date,  I also use QNAP manager in my desk top which is very easy to use, I use IOS so set up the NAS on Z drive on my home PC

I also keep the orginal downloads of music on sepertate back up devise

on Asset - I too am another fan of keeping my files in FLAC and transcodes to WAV on the fly

just in case but I am sure you have - have an external back up of your music

then just sit back and enjoy!

Posted on: 11 December 2018 by AndyP19

Thumbs up here for Asset. Plus a few of things you need to think about:

1) Are you going to use RAID?

2) What is the back-up strategy?

3) A formatted 2TB drive gives you about 1,800 GB space and with a CD around 600MB you have room for about 3,000 (uncompressed) CDs. Based on your current library that leaves room for about another 1,500 CDs - if you are using the other 2TB drive in RAID

4) Are you going to download Hi-res files, in which case you'll burn-up the spare storage capacity a lot (lot) quicker. 

Oh and did I mention what's the back-up strategy??????

There are some great youtube clips on setting up a QNAP.  

Posted on: 11 December 2018 by hungryhalibut

Itís worth getting bigger drives to start with, for little more. If you store in compressed flac you will fit a lot more in. High res albums are 1 to 2 GB, and they chomp up space pretty fast.

Posted on: 11 December 2018 by piggy

Really appreciate all the good feedback and knowledge sharing.

Yes, will use Raid 1 and as I have already ordered the NAS with 2 x 2TB WD Drives. These should keep me going for a while, swapping these out for larger drives should hopefully be easier enough. Also at the back of my mind is trying something like the Melco or Innuos as I understand this can bring a considerable sound improvement over a NAS.  

I will definitely be downloading HI-res albums, looking forward to having my entire cd collection at hand as at the moment I tend to only play new albums or ones at hand.

Andy

 

 

 

 

 

Posted on: 11 December 2018 by AndyP19

And your back-up is?

My approach has been to configure my main QNAP as JBOD (in your case would give you a capacity of 4TB) then I bought a cheaper NAS - Synology DS218J with the same capacity as the QNAP and again set this up as JBOD then back-up the QNAP on an automatic basis once a week.

So, I donít do RAID but I do have another level of back-up which is USB drive plugged into the QNAP. All on the same site but if the house burns down Iíve got bigger problems, however, I may think about another NAS off-site soon.

You really donít want to be re-ripping those CDs again and something that came as a shock to me was that download sites donít hold the licence to stuff Iíve downloaded forever.

Posted on: 11 December 2018 by hungryhalibut

With the Qnap itís easy to back up to USB by pressing the blue button on the front. It needs to be configured, which is really easy. 

Posted on: 11 December 2018 by piggy
AndyP19 posted:

And your back-up is?

My approach has been to configure my main QNAP as JBOD (in your case would give you a capacity of 4TB) then I bought a cheaper NAS - Synology DS218J with the same capacity as the QNAP and again set this up as JBOD then back-up the QNAP on an automatic basis once a week.

So, I donít do RAID but I do have another level of back-up which is USB drive plugged into the QNAP. All on the same site but if the house burns down Iíve got bigger problems, however, I may think about another NAS off-site soon.

You really donít want to be re-ripping those CDs again and something that came as a shock to me was that download sites donít hold the licence to stuff Iíve downloaded forever.

My Mac Mini (connected wireless) has all my my ripped music using dBPoweramp stored as Flac, I was going to carry on with this approach and workout how to transfer any new music to the NAS which I intend to put into a sideboard with a Switch the opposite side to a wall that houses my Naim kit. I then have a hole in the wall that will be used to feed an Ethernet cable through to my Naim kit. Looking at this site I see a lot of members use specialised expensive ethernet cables so again something else to look at once get going.

So intial backup will be the Mac Mini and I will look to back up that with a USB drive. I hadn't thought of this till now but I do have a garage that Is not connected to the house that I could store another backup but hadn't thought of that till now.

 

Posted on: 11 December 2018 by sjbabbey

If you're ripping/downloading to your mac mini then I'd suggest that you map the QNAP library folder as a network drive for your mac which will make copying your files to the QNAP much simpler.


 

Posted on: 11 December 2018 by simes_pep

And suddenly you find you have a main NAS RAID1 volume with 10TB discs, with 6,000 albums (80k tracks) of which 60% are HiRes (24-bit or DSD), with backup NAS RAID1 volumes with 8TB & 2TB discs, so 20TB of available volumes, from 40TB of raw disc, at home! Yes, 3 NAS units, actually 4 as I still have an old Cisco nslu2 device, with another 2 1TB discs running as JBOD, and another 1TB in one of the USB ports of a NAS, so 23TB of available storage on the network. Plus there is another of 2 6TB discs awaiting a new enclosure, and an off-line backup set of 2 4TB discs. So that's 60TB of disc storage!

If you going are to use Asset, I still have my custom set of folder icons available in my Dropbox at https://www.dropbox.com/sh/bu8...XPbXFIT2uato_Ha?dl=0

Also you should look to a Roon Core, and adding Roon capability to your new NDS.

Which PS are you using with your NDS?

Simon

Posted on: 12 December 2018 by piggy
simes_pep posted:

And suddenly you find you have a main NAS RAID1 volume with 10TB discs, with 6,000 albums (80k tracks) of which 60% are HiRes (24-bit or DSD), with backup NAS RAID1 volumes with 8TB & 2TB discs, so 20TB of available volumes, from 40TB of raw disc, at home! Yes, 3 NAS units, actually 4 as I still have an old Cisco nslu2 device, with another 2 1TB discs running as JBOD, and another 1TB in one of the USB ports of a NAS, so 23TB of available storage on the network. Plus there is another of 2 6TB discs awaiting a new enclosure, and an off-line backup set of 2 4TB discs. So that's 60TB of disc storage!

If you going are to use Asset, I still have my custom set of folder icons available in my Dropbox at https://www.dropbox.com/sh/bu8...XPbXFIT2uato_Ha?dl=0

Also you should look to a Roon Core, and adding Roon capability to your new NDS.

Which PS are you using with your NDS?

Simon

I do buy a fair few cds and no doubt will be buying hi-res but I doubt I get to 6000 albums in any case I will start to prune out after I get to 2000 as I donít want albums that I rarely play. 

If you use Roon do you byPass the Naim App? I understand you can get a free trial so will take a look.

I have a 555PS non DR. Not for long as I booked everything in for a service and DR upgrade in Jan.

thank you for the link to your Dropbox, doesnít mean that much to me but NAS arrives today so should start to make more sense.

 Will test that blue button HH!

I need to be retired to have time to look at all this!!

Andy

Posted on: 12 December 2018 by Bart
piggy posted:

I decided to take a punt and will be buying a pre-loved NDS (2018 model) and a QNAP-TS-253b NAS with 2 x 2tb WD Red drives.

 

How will you set up the nas -- raid 0? 1? JBOD?

In a format where your total capacity is 2tb, that's not a lot of room.  I'm getting close to 2 tb of music now, but have 2 x 4tb WD Red drives in my QNAP.  

Posted on: 12 December 2018 by simes_pep
piggy posted:
simes_pep posted:

And suddenly you find you have a main NAS RAID1 volume with 10TB discs, with 6,000 albums (80k tracks) of which 60% are HiRes (24-bit or DSD), with backup NAS RAID1 volumes with 8TB & 2TB discs, so 20TB of available volumes, from 40TB of raw disc, at home! Yes, 3 NAS units, actually 4 as I still have an old Cisco nslu2 device, with another 2 1TB discs running as JBOD, and another 1TB in one of the USB ports of a NAS, so 23TB of available storage on the network. Plus there is another of 2 6TB discs awaiting a new enclosure, and an off-line backup set of 2 4TB discs. So that's 60TB of disc storage!

If you going are to use Asset, I still have my custom set of folder icons available in my Dropbox at https://www.dropbox.com/sh/bu8...XPbXFIT2uato_Ha?dl=0

Also you should look to a Roon Core, and adding Roon capability to your new NDS.

Which PS are you using with your NDS?

Simon

I do buy a fair few cds and no doubt will be buying hi-res but I doubt I get to 6000 albums in any case I will start to prune out after I get to 2000 as I donít want albums that I rarely play. 

If you use Roon do you byPass the Naim App? I understand you can get a free trial so will take a look.

I have a 555PS non DR. Not for long as I booked everything in for a service and DR upgrade in Jan.

thank you for the link to your Dropbox, doesnít mean that much to me but NAS arrives today so should start to make more sense.

 Will test that blue button HH!

I need to be retired to have time to look at all this!!

Andy

Yes, with Roon you have a better GUI for Library management, discovery, metadata enrichment, cross-linking to other recordings/artists/genres etc., frankly it leaves the Naim App standing as a basic point & play version.

You will need somewhere to run the Roon Core, such as a NUC which then accesses your music on the NAS and then the UPnP Bridge to get the stream to the NDS. But there is now this https://www.smallgreencomputer...ariant=6964135395362

Also there is seamless integration with Tidal and the ability to play MQA Masters.

Re setup on Asset and the custom icons for the folders, there are some instructions in my Setup Guide, which although is for a RPi, how to replace the Asset Images will be same, as it the same build. You will need SSH access to your NAS.

Simon 

Posted on: 13 December 2018 by piggy
simes_pep posted:
piggy posted:
simes_pep posted:

And suddenly you find you have a main NAS RAID1 volume with 10TB discs, with 6,000 albums (80k tracks) of which 60% are HiRes (24-bit or DSD), with backup NAS RAID1 volumes with 8TB & 2TB discs, so 20TB of available volumes, from 40TB of raw disc, at home! Yes, 3 NAS units, actually 4 as I still have an old Cisco nslu2 device, with another 2 1TB discs running as JBOD, and another 1TB in one of the USB ports of a NAS, so 23TB of available storage on the network. Plus there is another of 2 6TB discs awaiting a new enclosure, and an off-line backup set of 2 4TB discs. So that's 60TB of disc storage!

If you going are to use Asset, I still have my custom set of folder icons available in my Dropbox at https://www.dropbox.com/sh/bu8...XPbXFIT2uato_Ha?dl=0

Also you should look to a Roon Core, and adding Roon capability to your new NDS.

Which PS are you using with your NDS?

Simon

I do buy a fair few cds and no doubt will be buying hi-res but I doubt I get to 6000 albums in any case I will start to prune out after I get to 2000 as I donít want albums that I rarely play. 

If you use Roon do you byPass the Naim App? I understand you can get a free trial so will take a look.

I have a 555PS non DR. Not for long as I booked everything in for a service and DR upgrade in Jan.

thank you for the link to your Dropbox, doesnít mean that much to me but NAS arrives today so should start to make more sense.

 Will test that blue button HH!

I need to be retired to have time to look at all this!!

Andy

Yes, with Roon you have a better GUI for Library management, discovery, metadata enrichment, cross-linking to other recordings/artists/genres etc., frankly it leaves the Naim App standing as a basic point & play version.

You will need somewhere to run the Roon Core, such as a NUC which then accesses your music on the NAS and then the UPnP Bridge to get the stream to the NDS. But there is now this https://www.smallgreencomputer...ariant=6964135395362

Also there is seamless integration with Tidal and the ability to play MQA Masters.

Re setup on Asset and the custom icons for the folders, there are some instructions in my Setup Guide, which although is for a RPi, how to replace the Asset Images will be same, as it the same build. You will need SSH access to your NAS.

Simon 

Hi Simon,

Will defiantly look into this but is it not possible to run Roon Core on the QNAP NAS, might need to upgrade the memory?

If I run the Roon Core on the NAS then I would only need the UPnP Bridge?

Hi Bart,

Set it up last night as Raid 1. My music is all in Flac, about 500-600Mb.

Maybe should have gone with bigger drives but this should keep me going for a while, I can always put in larger drives but in the future I will try a Melco or similar.

Installed Asett,  it's been busy overnight today copying all music across from my Mac, got another 5 hours to go.

I do have 2 Icons when I go into UPnP in the Naim App but presume one is the Asett UPnP and the other one Is the is the QNAP UPnP Server?

Besides this everything is straight forward, NDS arrives later today but won't be installed till the weekend.

 

 

 

Posted on: 13 December 2018 by ChrisSU

You can run Roon on a NAS or computer you already own. It may struggle to do some of the more intensive functions like DSP/room correction/parametric eq, but many will not use these features anyway, and this will get you up and running for the trial. If you like it (some do, and some donít) you can then consider whether or not you need a more powerful device to run it on later. 

Posted on: 15 December 2018 by piggy

NDS and Qnap all up and running and sounding wonderful. Had to drill a bigger hole in the wall between my Naim and a sideboard next door that houses the Qnap and Switch.

Very responsive app when switching between tracks.

Its a clearer more focus sound as the CDS3 was more fuller but less detail. 

Couple of things I need to do is upgrade the firmware, my laptop is locked down as itís a work machine so will try it on the Mac Mini.

Also I need to amend the Metadata as complication albums are showing up as individual artists and some duplicate artists are showing. 

Do I edit the Metadata in Audivana on my Mac and delete on the NAS and copy back over or do I do it on the NAS In the Asett DB? 

Posted on: 15 December 2018 by simes_pep

Check your Asset settings first before looking at the Metadata, as there are different ways of grouping multiple albums and Compilations.

Look in your General Setting sections of Asset's configuration settings, here's mine.

If you do need to adjust the metadata, I work on the files on the NAS, using mp3tag or dBPoweramp and let Asset server rescan them (or force the rescan of the library).

dBPoweramp runs on MacOS, but not sure about mp3tag, as I use Windows on my Laptops.

Simon.

Posted on: 15 December 2018 by ChrisSU

If you edit the metadata with a metadata editor on your Mac, your server (Asset) should rescan the files and recognise the changes. 

There is a Mac version of the Naim firmware updater, so you should be fine with your Mac Mini. Be careful to follow the instructions exactly. You will need a USB to mini-USB lead to connect the computer to the streamer. 

Posted on: 15 December 2018 by AndyP19
ChrisSU posted:

You will need a USB to mini-USB lead to connect the computer to the streamer. 

Just a tip make sure the cable for the firmware upgrade is a data cable - sounds strange but I (and many others here) struggled to get the firmware to update only to find I was using a mini-USB charging cable. Not sure how you tell the difference just one will work and the other won't.

Changing metadata is 'digital gardening' you need to constantly potter around weeding here, trimming there, adding a bit, until it all looks in order.  

Posted on: 15 December 2018 by piggy

Thanks Simon, I used the information you provided before but will double check the Asett settings.

dBpower Amp is on the Mac which I copied my music library across to the NAS. Presume I still need to edit on Mac via Audivana, delete the album on the NAS and then copy across before I rescan which I guess is an option in Asettt?

Hi Chrissu, yes will take my time with the update, leave that till tomorrow.

Sorry guyís if I sound a bit dumb, all new to me, guess iím trying to run before I can walk????

Got to get Xmas tree now before I get into trouble...

 

Posted on: 15 December 2018 by ChrisSU

I always edit metadata on the original file on the NAS, just using the Mac to veiw it and run the editor, so I wouldnít bother moving the files onto your computer.