ndx2 in America, and naim here in general

Although I'm not one of them, there are a fairly large number of active Naim users on the Forum. The only problem is, the Forum is probably not a reliable representation of the customer segment in any region.

You might just have a beer with your nearest dealer and ask them what they feel about Naim in the US. My impression is that it is doing pretty good over there. The exorbitant prices are pretty much normal for any UK hifi sold in any non UK country. The reverse is also true. This is why hifi is geographically territorial to some degree.

I guess by the time import duties, local taxes , exchange rates etc are all factored in ...plus the high cost of safe shipping of heavy items and maintaining a dealer presence at show etc ...it's a wonder hi-fi' makes it out of the country it is made

But a good reputation and back up will always count for something... And loyal customers will seek out the products..

There is also the fact that exchange rates fluctuate and if you are to set a price that will last for 6 months to a year without too much risk of losing money in a sudden rate shift, you need to set a conservative price.

It's not like bananas where the price can and does fluctuate by the day.

I am really suspicious of these huge price variations between UK & other countries, they just don't stack up.   In my old pre-retirement job the company manufactured in various locations across Europe, Far East & USA,  the prices to our dealers did not vary,  no matter where it was made or where its sales destination country might be.  The only variation was the currency,   we would only sell in Euro in Europe or US Dollar for the rest of the world.     

I think a lot depends on what you’re selling, and in what quantities. For a smallish operation like Naim, needing to have a distributor/service agent/importer overseas, who also needs to make a profit, must cost quite a bit, and might vary in different markets. This is very different from a large scale mass production operation, where packing their products into big containers on massive ships is much cheaper and easier that distributing them in their country of origin. 

I am new to the Naim brand--about 6 months.  I was referred to it by a friend/dealer.  I have been very satisfied.  Started with a budget of x and have spent about 6x at the moment.  Take deliver of and ND555 and PS555.  Its a final purchase for me, and the cost is hi and I am 74 years young, but Music is one of the pursuits I love in retirement, and a very fortunate to be able to afford equipment like this.  I waited 34 years to re engage in Music, as I wanted to do it right and not impact the family situation.  Grown and Launched kids--retirement--enjoy.  Thanks Naim for making the Musical equipment that you do.  Its brought immense pleasure to me and my wife.  

Bailyhill

I hope Naim do well in the US, it is a big market and one that appreciates, and therefore is prepared to pay for, great hifi. I am not well enough informed about the margins, costs and therefore selling prices in overseas markets. But as long as customers in these markets are not being ripped off by middlemen, don't feel they are being ripped off and appreciate what Naim products can offer, then top quality hifi that truly delivers has the potential to command high prices overseas.

The US high-end hifi market is very competitive and is well served my a number of reputable domestic brands. So Naim can only flourish on the ability of its products to deliver the sonic goods, and in that department I have confidence that Naim have the right credentials to do well. The US Naim dealer network however will need to be as committed and as competent as the UK network. That will take a lot of time, effort and investment by Salisbury. The size of the prize however will dictate if that investment is worth it.

feeling_zen posted:

There is also the fact that exchange rates fluctuate and if you are to set a price that will last for 6 months to a year without too much risk of losing money in a sudden rate shift, you need to set a conservative price.

It's not like bananas where the price can and does fluctuate by the day.

That has been a gold mine for them, raising prices when the US dollar weakened but never lowering them back when it became stronger. 

Well the beauty of how the naim upgrade path works is that’s there’s NDX and NDS now available for very attractive prices .....

Have spoken to enough ex-naim dealers who claimed that they used to bleed green - but now carry no naim - to know that not everything is right. 

Naim products make incredible sounds come out of my speakers. 

They have the quality and the sound, they just need to sell it better over here...product placement could help them a lot..tasteful celebrity endorsement, etc. background naim stack in the next season of black mirrors or something.

MangoMonkey posted:

Have spoken to enough ex-naim dealers who claimed that they used to bleed green - but now carry no naim - to know that not everything is right. 

Yeah but it depends on why, Be interesting to get those dealers' tongues flapping.

I know of dealers in the UK who in the years following the financial crisis basically had to reinvent themselves because the geographic area they were in was basically not buying hifi anymore. Some had to go from selling NDS and LD12s to selling iPod docks and soundbars to survive and the towns they were in never experienced an upturn in fortunes.

I do recall getting two completely different stories about why Naim pulled out of the Japanese market. The story from Naim was that it cost them $1000 to do mandatory certification of each item for 100v operation at the very limited economies of scale they had for the sales there and it was just not worth it anymore.

The story I heard from an ex Naim dealer in Tokyo was different. They loved Naim but dropped them in 2008. But with the ever increasing move to ever cramped thin walled homes and smaller paychecks, hi end hifi was just not doing well for anyone, domestic or otherwise, and he listed a very very long list of foreign brands that just gave up here soon after 2008. The biggest problem for them was that those with disposable incomes able to buy Naim had literally died out for the most part with a few straggling customers he takes care of in their 80's. 

Now I don't suspect the US is subject to that yet and I also suspect Naim does pretty well there depending on where you are. But the aging population demographic in many developed countries is going to hit the general consumerism model hard. And luxury goods will feel the pinch sooner because those with purchasing power are starting to move to retirement or... to be blunt about it... die. Younger people, even those with money are fewer and generationally, they are less into "ownership" in general unless it is small and affordable. 

Which probably explains why they came back with a limited muso-only presence at Apple stores here (and a few furniture outlets) and seem to fare much better.

I can't speak to how Naim is doing, or has done in the past- across the whole of the US, but Naim has always done very well in New York where I have worked with customers for over twenty five years.    Some of this is due to Naim's musicality and what we might term pure performance attributes.    Some of this is due to the fact that compact, cool running solid state electronics happen to meet the requirements of many New Yorkers, who might otherwise be willing to consider bulkier components, or those which need more aggressive ventilation and maintenance requirements such as tube amplification.    Some listeners who are new to Naim have commented to me that Naim is among the most tube like solid state equipment, and this is meant as a compliment- even though the folks at Naim themselves might not feel this was anything more than a backhanded compliment.     For some ex tube users, Naim equipment has been chosen by people who have grown tired of tube ownership and maintenance.      

Some Naim fans stick with the brand as they move up in the line, while others start with Naim's inexpensive and medium priced products and if their circumstances change, they might then consider products from other lines which only offer higher priced products.    Certainly this somewhat dovetails with the way Naim has been traditionally covered in the US high end press, as the Naim entry level products have been more regularly covered in this market than the upper tier products for a variety of reasons.

In the US, Naim equipment is generally not as well known as it appears to be in Europe and certainly not anywhere near as well know as Naim is in England and the UK.   This can be something of a challenge on the sales floor, but many customers are willing to consider brands which they have previously not known anything about in the context of a traditional high end audio store.

Certainly some customers in the US have expressed preferences for domestic products for a variety of reasons, including pricing, and perceived value given the need for a US importer.    Other customers are less willing or able to restrict themselves to US made products, and there have been, and still are, many other brands competing in the US market from England, Europe, and Asia which all have some form of exchange rate differential and import price premiums.

Naim has also attracted and hugely benefited from some of the most talented and committed professionals as their import agents over time, which have clearly help the brand build it's profile and keep customers happy in the US.   A good importer is far more integral to success than many consumers might realize.    Dealers too make a huge difference in the market place.    Naim's products have traditionally not fit into the expectations many consumers bring to the table, so if dealers are not wiling to put in the extra time to explain why Naim has chosen a different approach than many apparently similar firms, customers might not reach the point of being comfortable buying Naim.

Buying Naim isn't as inevitable in the US as it can sometimes appear to be in their home market, but certainly Naim has been doing very well in the recent past.    Part of this is based on excellent new products like the Uniti series.    Some of it is based on decisions like the one to allow many previous Naim users to have their power supplies and amps rebuilt to meet up to date current specifications for a fraction of the cost of a brand new product.    Some of this success is out of time and current trends, as quality will find a market share when novelty wears out very quickly.

Finally, you should listen and judge the products you are considering with enough time and expert help as you need in order to feel comfortable making a buying decision.    This is far easier with a good dealer working on your behalf in my experience.

Good luck in your search for a music system you love; Naim or otherwise.

Bruce

I have been and continue to be committed to naim. I have never bothered to consider the price here compared to in England, but being more limited in my spending now a days, I did compare and an extra $1200 does seem like alot. Unfortunately, while I have no doubt an ndx2 would meet my needs, I barely know all of what can be done with it - my digital starts and stops with cd's no on-line library or streaming of any kind. Oh where o where is my winning lotto ticket?

Things really changed in the US with the change from Sound Organisation to Audioplus Services .  Pricing seemes to take a jump at this point .I was looking seriously at some Naim gear back then and the price change was kind of a kick to the gut .

That being said Audio Plus Services took really good care of me on a sticky situation with a 10 year old ex-demo UnitiQute .(the dealer kept it for like 8 years) 

I am just making the observation not a judgement. 

Although the reverse is also true .You can buy a Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum here for 2500USD . Its 2500£ in the UK so its inherent price increases across countries/continents.