Biamping a Supernait 2 with a 200 or 250 power amp
Posted by: Althepo on 15 December 2018
Hi. My first post here. I have a Supernait 2 with Hicap DR driving a pair of B&W 805D3 speakers. Overall I'm happy with the sound but am also interested to see if I can take things a step further.
The speakers can be bi-wired and I'm wondering whether bi-amping the Supernait 2 with either a 200 or 250 would bring significant gains in the experience of other forum users? The obvious answer of course is to try, but as my nearest dealer is a 160 mile round trip I thought I'd get some thoughts first. Cable is NAC A5 and my format of choice is CD from a CD5XS coupled with a Flatcap 2.
I'm lucky enough to have a dedicated listening room but it is small and square which I appreciate isn't ideal so I'm in the process of exploring some room acoustics through GiK to make improvements to the bass (tighter and more controlled when played at higher volumes) and imaging. The power amp would be a next step, but only if other forum users suggest it is worthwhile in their experience.
Thanks in advance.
Naim generally don't recommend bi-amping.
If I was you I would be looking to upgrade the CD player to perhaps nice used CDX2
Bi-amping is not an upgrade in my experience and I agree with Trickiedickie above re source.
G
Although forum lore has it that Naim don’t favour bi-amping, the Supernait has a DIN 4 output labelled ‘Biamp’, and the Connections Guide shows you how to connect it to a NAP200. They wouldn’t do that if they thought it was a waste or time. I think a lot of this is down to Naim’s history of active biamping, and the fact that biwiring from a single stereo amp is almost certainly best avoided. Try it, you might like it!
ChrisSU posted:Although forum lore has it that Naim don’t favour bi-amping, the Supernait has a DIN 4 output labelled ‘Biamp’, and the Connections Guide shows you how to connect it to a NAP200. They wouldn’t do that if they thought it was a waste or time. I think a lot of this is down to Naim’s history of active biamping, and the fact that biwiring from a single stereo amp is almost certainly best avoided. Try it, you might like it!
The benefits might come of you have a speaker that is at the limits of what the SN can control. If you already have a good match, perhaps less reason to try it. In the case of the OP, the SN2/HCDR would appear to be a good match for the 805s. If you were trying to drive 803s, not so much.
A couple of years ago I took my 200 to a friend’s house and set it up biwired with his SN1, out of nothing more than curiosity. We were quite surprised at how much better this sounded than the SN1 alone. Unfortunately I can’t remember what speakers he had, I think they were smallish Monitor Audios, and of course, that will have some bearing on the matter.
Althepo,
I'm not so sure about the D3 version of the 805's, but I am aware that the earlier 805 versions needed a decent amount of quality power to get them working properly. Whilst I would not necessarily suggest bi-amping as the best way forward, particularly with the increased costs for cables this will bring, you may find it beneficial. However you go about it, I think improving the quality of power driving your speakers should be worthwhile in your case.
Just try a few options and see what works best; utilise your dealers experience here but I would also suggest trying a single wired separate amp (maybe 250). When you do, if you haven't done so already, get rid of those metal links between the speaker binding posts and replace with a short length of cable matching the speaker cables you use; that alone should make an incremental improvement.
Hi Altho
A single 250 will always be better than 2 Nap 200s in a biamped configuration. I have never experienced biamping to work really.
ATB Peter
Just re-read your post, see you are using NAC A5 which is fine but can be a real pain to use for speaker jumpers. The speaker binding posts are close together on my speakers and the NAC A5 just wouldn't bend to fit comfortably, so I just stripped the plastic coating off the cable and replaced it with heat shrink... much more manageable!
911gt3r posted:Hi Altho
A single 250 will always be better than 2 Nap 200s in a biamped configuration. I have never experienced biamping to work really.
ATB Peter
Initially you might think ‘wow!’ But over an extended listen you notice things that unbalance the sound and have the effect (amongst other things) of putting the timing off. Most noticeable when you go back to the single amp ime.
G
It’s interesting, as what has been said already that on the back it gives the option to have it and naim produce the instructions for it and lots of dealers I have been to, highly recommend it but not on hear.
Id be surprised in all honesty tho how many on hear have actually heard a Supernait2 in a bi amp configuration.
Popeye posted:It’s interesting, as what has been said already that on the back it gives the option to have it and naim produce the instructions for it and lots of dealers I have been to, highly recommend it but not on hear.
Id be surprised in all honesty tho how many on hear have actually heard a Supernait2 in a bi amp configuration.
Me, with 200. Ultimately I found 202/200 more resolving. YMMVWD.
G
I Bi-Amp using Naim all the time, in some systems it’s amazing and sometimes not so.
I find it has more to do with the speakers that are used, some respond to Bi-Amping better then others.
I am using a 250 to power B&W 804 D3 speakers and, although they take a fair bit of driving, the 250 does this with lots of room to spare on a single run.
Thanks everyone for your comments. Some food for thought for next year, coupled with what seems like a mandatory home demo to determine the next step. Cheers.
If you’re buying new from a dealer, remember that a brand new 200DR has a DR power supply that only serves to power a separate Naim preamp. You won’t be using this (unless you subsequently go for a 202 or 282) so a good used 200 would be much better value.
I tried bi-amping when I had a SuperUniti and a 250.2. It sounded like mud to my ears. Gave it a couple of weeks to see if I could acclimatize.. eventually switched to using the Superuniti as a digital streamer / preamp and the amp as a... well... as an amp :-)
It was a good way to slowly transition to separates if that is your end game.. and while you are at it try bi-amping if you like. I just wouldn't have high expectations... at least based on my experience.
It seems this is talking about passive bi-amping, still using the speaker’s passive crossover, and as such it’s benefits are inevitably far more limited than active bi-amping with an active XO before the power amps, giving direct drive if the speaker comes, no high power through XO circuitry, and removal before them of frequencies the power amps don’t Need to amplify.
it seems rather a pointless exercise unless you happen to have the spare power amp - in which case absolutely give it a g: there’ nothing to lose.
It seems this is talking about passive bi-amping, still using the speaker’s passive crossover, and as such it’s benefits are inevitably far more limited than active bi-amping with an active XO before the power amps, giving direct drive if the speaker comes, no high power through XO circuitry, and removal before them of frequencies the power amps don’t Need to amplify.
it seems rather a pointless exercise unless you happen to have the spare power amp - in which case absolutely give it as there’s nothing to lose.