Good biggun' always beats a good littlun'?

I'd always go with good standmounts as opposed to mediocre floorstanders....but re amplifier...remember you're going to need a good pre amp to go with a nap 250dr such as a nac282.....at the very least.

I think that expression " A good biggun' always beats a good littlun'' is mostly applicable when spending big money on a big system for a big room..

6 x 4m is a great size that you could put all sorts of speakers except true big monsters.

Your choice would be good, but there are as you say Floorstanders at the same cost - ideally smallish Floorstanders - that will give you more drive, dynamics and bandwidth

Good biggun (almost) every time... The room is your foe, not the speaker 

I’m betting S40 is on par with 25.23.  At least I thought my Contour 20 were with the 25.23 I heard. Dyn make great speakers and the S40 is supposed to be a great value. 

A PMC Twenty5.23, should flourish in that specific size of room. Of course whether they are your cup of tea as a speaker in general is another matter. I don't really believe in speaker recommendations so much as assurances of compatibility. They work very will with a 250dr and a room of that size or even bigger.

I am biased towards floor standers and the room has to basically force me to go towards bookshelf speakers literally (i.e. on shelves not stands). That said, I do think there are excellent smaller speakers out there and you might actually prefer them. 

If you are in the UK, then take advantage of the opportunities to hear a good cross section with the 250dr. To help narrow down the list, you may want to start with similar stand mount or floor standers from various brands first to see which "house sound" suits you and then audition more speakers from that manufacturer. 

Also that depends on the kind of music you you listen to.

It depends on room dynamics and also musical taste if you like listening to violin concertos then small speakers can equal floor standing speakers but if you like big bass driven music the the bigger the better and 6x4 is big enough to take a medium sized floor stander.

As you are assembling a complete new system you would do well to consider your overall budget. For example, a 250DR, with a 282 and Hicap, costs over £6,000 more than a Supernait. The 250 is more capable of driving more demanding speakers, so it’s important to know which way you plan to go. You’ll also need to budget for a good stand to put the boxes on, and some speaker leads. 

I wouldn’t get hung up on standmounts or floorstanders - just listen to some and see what you prefer. 

I wouldn’t make any assumptions about musical choice and speaker size. When I had small speakers and a subwoofer, turning on the sub hugely improved the sound of solo violin, even though the violin obviously has no deep bass. I put this down to the sub allowing the ambience of the recording venue to be portrayed more effectively. 

It’s really important to find speakers that work well in your room. You want a setup that drives the room, not just sits within it. You are not after loads of bass, but rather bass that is deep and tight, with no boom or overhang, and which starts and stops in an instant. Above all, you want something that sounds natural and real, and that you can listen to for hours on end, without fatigue. I suppose by saying ‘you want’ I really mean ‘I want’ - you may be after other things, but you probably aren’t. 

Good luck!

The speakers have a greater effect in the overall character of the sound than any other component, so need choosing carefully, and if at all possible go and listen to as many as you can within available budget (and unless that is high I suggest buying secondhand or ex-dem, giving greater buying power).

I once did a mammoth audition of 12 or 13 speakers costing the equivalent of £2.5-3k, at the time the top model in most manufacturers’ ranges, and was shocked to find how different they sounded - and hence how far from perfect reproducers they were - even in that far from cheap bracket. And of them all the vast majority simply sounded awful to me, rejected on the first track, with only 3 having a second listen, then down to 2 for more thorough comparison, with one clear winner.

If you don’t like bass, or don’t mind it curtailed, life is easy and standmounts a clear preference. It is far, far more difficult to get decent bass out of a small speaker, and as a generalisation floorstanders do better at the bottom end - but finding a speaker that does full range well is difficult. Personally I have found I like transmission line bass (that trial!), e.g. PMC, but I don’t know the 23, only having heard higher models. An alternative could be standmounts and a good sub, as long as properly  integrated. 

Ideally once you think you’ve identified the speakers for you, if at all possible audition at home before commitnent. (Not so easy with secondhand purchases, though there is less loss selling them on should you end up deciding they’re wrong. )

That is where the “fun” starts - if you’re lucky, set up where you want and it sounds great: but sometimes that is not the case, or at least not once you sit down and start being critical rather than just loving the fact that you have a system. It is common to find issues like boomy bass on certain notes, or the opposite, some notes not sounding at all. These are due to effects of the room, reflections causing sound waves to be enhanced or to cancel - fortunately it is usually easy to solve with a bit of patience and effort, rearranging speaker and listening positions - and people on this forum will happily offer suggestions should it come to that.

I went through a similar exercise having intended to buy floor standers. Ended up with Dynaudio Special 40s. They are a genuine bargain if you enjoy music.

Skinnypuppy71 posted:

I'd always go with good standmounts as opposed to mediocre floorstanders....but re amplifier...remember you're going to need a good pre amp to go with a nap 250dr such as a nac282.....at the very least.

Hi mate, is the preamp essential from the get go or can be added as an upgrade at a later date? Sorry for my ignorance, it's all new to me but I thought the 250 would be all I needed to partner the streamer and speakers to get me started.

You definitely need a pre amp to go with the nap 250 dr...it's a standalone power amp...so that plus a nac 282 is in excess of 6k I believe.ouch!.

I think for clarification we should say that the ND* streamers are dedicated sources without preamps. 

The variable output on the NDX2 is not a preamp function. 

A 272 however is a Naim streaming preamp (their only one). It can be partnered with a 250dr (and often is). Not as good as a NDX2 I imagine but very popular and it'll get you where you want to go.

leni v posted:

Also that depends on the kind of music you you listen to.

In my view a good loudspeaker should be capable of playing any music well - however, if your musical taste is limited  to a certain type it is possible you could find speakers whose limitations are irrelevant to that style and so get away with speakers that wouldn’t sound right  with other material.

feeling_zen posted:

I think for clarification we should say that the ND* streamers are dedicated sources without preamps. 

The variable output on the NDX2 is not a preamp function. 

A 272 however is a Naim streaming preamp (their only one). It can be partnered with a 250dr (and often is). Not as good as a NDX2 I imagine but very popular and it'll get you where you want to go.

I have seen an online shop of a dealer selling new 272/250 dr for just over £6 k.....not too bad at all.

Skinnypuppy71 posted:

You definitely need a pre amp to go with the nap 250 dr...it's a standalone power amp...so that plus a nac 282 is in excess of 6k I believe.ouch!.

Yeah just had a quick Google, circa £8000 for the pair. Do shops tend to offer decent discounts with big purchases?!

Innocent Bystander posted:

leni v posted:

Also that depends on the kind of music you you listen to.

In my view a good loudspeaker should be capable of playing any music well - however, if your musical taste is limited  to a certain type it is possible you could find speakers whose limitations are irrelevant to that style and so get away with speakers that wouldn’t sound right  with other material.

Never a truer word said.

steve74 posted:

Skinnypuppy71 posted:

You definitely need a pre amp to go with the nap 250 dr...it's a standalone power amp...so that plus a nac 282 is in excess of 6k I believe.ouch!.

Yeah just had a quick Google, circa £8000 for the pair. Do shops tend to offer decent discounts with big purchases?!

With a 282/250 you also need a Hicap, so that’s another £1,400. As to discounts, that really is for you to discuss with your dealer. 

It took me ages to find a floor stander to better my ageing wall mounted Linn Kans in a room of similar size to yours. Ended up with PMC 20 24's. Front end  272 and 250DR. Don't discount any thing till you've listened to it. Rich 

Most Naim dealers are not into discounting although part exchanging can work.

By far the best strategy would be to buy used - 272, 282 and hicap have been unchanged since they were launched and the only issue with the 250 is that there was a DR upgrade a few yeards ago but this is retrofittable. I'd also buy speakers used if you can find the ones you want. I can recommend TomTom Audio as used Naim specialists but most dealers will have some "pre loved" stock.

hungryhalibut posted:

steve74 posted:

Skinnypuppy71 posted:

You definitely need a pre amp to go with the nap 250 dr...it's a standalone power amp...so that plus a nac 282 is in excess of 6k I believe.ouch!.

Yeah just had a quick Google, circa £8000 for the pair. Do shops tend to offer decent discounts with big purchases?!

With a 282/250 you also need a Hicap, so that’s another £1,400. As to discounts, that really is for you to discuss with your dealer. 

So, the 282 is needed as a preamp for the 250, is the hicap a power supply for the 282? If so, none can work without the other?

I went down this route recently and shopped around online and found a couple of deals and went to my local dealer as they do price matching. Easier for me as if anything needs taking back I dont have a long slog, and all picked up from same place. If you do buy new there is a backlog on 282's of about 2 months I think.

All things considered, the NDX2, Supernait2 and the Dynaudio Super 40s would be a great system. Then of course you will need a nice support and cables.   Could be no need for anymore complications and will put you in good stead with a dealer if you want to upgrade at a later time.

steve74 posted:

hungryhalibut posted:

steve74 posted:

Skinnypuppy71 posted:

You definitely need a pre amp to go with the nap 250 dr...it's a standalone power amp...so that plus a nac 282 is in excess of 6k I believe.ouch!.

Yeah just had a quick Google, circa £8000 for the pair. Do shops tend to offer decent discounts with big purchases?!

With a 282/250 you also need a Hicap, so that’s another £1,400. As to discounts, that really is for you to discuss with your dealer. 

So, the 282 is needed as a preamp for the 250, is the hicap a power supply for the 282? If so, none can work without the other?

Yes, that’s right. You’d do well to do some research on Naim’s website and more generally. It will put you in good stead going forward and help to ensure you get what suits your needs. 

Pev posted:

Most Naim dealers are not into discounting although part exchanging can work.

By far the best strategy would be to buy used - 272, 282 and hicap have been unchanged since they were launched and the only issue with the 250 is that there was a DR upgrade a few yeards ago but this is retrofittable. I'd also buy speakers used if you can find the ones you want. I can recommend TomTom Audio as used Naim specialists but most dealers will have some "pre loved" stock.

This is perhaps a North American phenomenon... but I've never met a dealer who sells anything at list "retail" price. Over here they all discount. It's expected. As a general rule... I've found that if you are just paying cash.... you can expect 10-15% off retail... generally if you are trading something in, they charge the full retail price less the negotiated value of the trade in material.