When people talk about different elements

Source first is still a good guide if the system is pretty balanced as your looks to be.  I'm not an expert though.

Guinnless posted:

Source first is still a good guide if the system is pretty balanced as your looks to be.  I'm not an expert though.

Thanks, not what I was meaning tho and not looking to change anything with my system. 

Like if a person was seeking better separation between instruments or maybe seeking better depth/layered sound imaging, would certain components or cables be advised?

obviously this is just one example. 

I see.  It's a very "hifi" question you are asking. 

It depends very much of what the system is that you have so I don't think there is a single answer. Change source, amp, speakers would all be perfectly valid responses.

So much of appreciation of music is subjective so that this isn't an easy question. Room and speakers have an effect on tone and character in a way that the electronics don't. Lowering the noise floor is often the way to 'improve' the sound IMO and this is where better power supplies helps most IME. 

If the speakers are a more difficult load then a power-amp upgrade is often indicated....

Popeye posted:

Guinnless posted:

Source first is still a good guide if the system is pretty balanced as your looks to be.  I'm not an expert though.

Thanks, not what I was meaning tho and not looking to change anything with my system. 

Like if a person was seeking better separation between instruments or maybe seeking better depth/layered sound imaging, would certain components or cables be advised?

obviously this is just one example. 

Merry Christmas Popeye. Now, I don't know whether my comments might help address your question or not and I hope none of what I write is in anyway patronising, so apologies in advance if so. You say you're not looking to change anything so I'm guessing you mean tweaks? I've found that separation, imaging and soundstage can all be altered with speaker positioning, i.e toe-in, distance between each speaker, distance from rear and side walls. It's quite astonishing what a few millimetres in positioning can make to depth and height of soundstage. It's something of a frustrating exercise to carry out, probably best done with 2 people (1 to fiddle, 1 to sit and listen). Other items worthy of attention and all known to affect sound are the choice of hifi rack and speaker stands. The choice of materials here can affect dynamics as well as overly-pronounced bass or treble frequencies.

Then there's power and by this I mean everything from mains leads to blocks and dedicated mains spurs. This will affect background noise and soundstage significantly. If you run the stock Naim power cables there's nowt wrong with them at all but if you're going to plug them into a main block of some sort, try to use one which is set up for "star earthing" which Naim recommends. 

Speaker cable and interconnects are very, very subjective and there's no doubt the choice of cable affects sounds due to the type of material used (copper/silver), shielding and isolation. I think changes here will be noticeable in terms of transparency and detail retrieval.

Following a house move in the summer I found my speakers were too bass-biased in their new home. I've experimented with a lot of different materials to control the boom, settling on a combination of gaffer tape and toilet tissue, not the port bungs the manufacturer provided which to my ears killed the sound. So, that's something else which is practically free and keeping in your tweaking arsenal should you ever experience that problem.

I'm sure other members will post their own thoughts and so on but hope there's a few things here you find useful in your Naim journey!

It is a little like sex, too much theory ruins it. 

Haim Ronen posted:

It is a little like sex, too much theory ruins it. 

Unlike sex, the whole audio experience can be conducted from the comfort of one's own armchair, fully dressed and with a nice cuppa or glass of wine in hand. Oh, and if you've got orchestral works, Led Zep or Yes to listen to, it'll probably last a great deal longer too!

Jonners posted:

Popeye posted:

Guinnless posted:

Source first is still a good guide if the system is pretty balanced as your looks to be.  I'm not an expert though.

Thanks, not what I was meaning tho and not looking to change anything with my system. 

Like if a person was seeking better separation between instruments or maybe seeking better depth/layered sound imaging, would certain components or cables be advised?

obviously this is just one example. 

Merry Christmas Popeye. Now, I don't know whether my comments might help address your question or not and I hope none of what I write is in anyway patronising, so apologies in advance if so. You say you're not looking to change anything so I'm guessing you mean tweaks? I've found that separation, imaging and soundstage can all be altered with speaker positioning, i.e toe-in, distance between each speaker, distance from rear and side walls. It's quite astonishing what a few millimetres in positioning can make to depth and height of soundstage. It's something of a frustrating exercise to carry out, probably best done with 2 people (1 to fiddle, 1 to sit and listen). Other items worthy of attention and all known to affect sound are the choice of hifi rack and speaker stands. The choice of materials here can affect dynamics as well as overly-pronounced bass or treble frequencies.

Then there's power and by this I mean everything from mains leads to blocks and dedicated mains spurs. This will affect background noise and soundstage significantly. If you run the stock Naim power cables there's nowt wrong with them at all but if you're going to plug them into a main block of some sort, try to use one which is set up for "star earthing" which Naim recommends. 

Speaker cable and interconnects are very, very subjective and there's no doubt the choice of cable affects sounds due to the type of material used (copper/silver), shielding and isolation. I think changes here will be noticeable in terms of transparency and detail retrieval.

Following a house move in the summer I found my speakers were too bass-biased in their new home. I've experimented with a lot of different materials to control the boom, settling on a combination of gaffer tape and toilet tissue, not the port bungs the manufacturer provided which to my ears killed the sound. So, that's something else which is practically free and keeping in your tweaking arsenal should you ever experience that problem.

I'm sure other members will post their own thoughts and so on but hope there's a few things here you find useful in your Naim journey!

 

Thanks Jonners

no, not looking to tweak anything either. Just trying to get a better understanding and interested in a question and reply that arises frequently. 

I was more referring to black box sound qualities and what elements in the source,pre,power and at the different models deliver certain qualities in what people determine what “box” to change/upgrade. 

Cheers

popeye

From my experience of upgrading (rather than simply tweaking), sources, amplifiers (pre and power), power supplies, speakers and cables, all have the capacity to affect a variety of elements (e.g. separation, detail, imagery, treble/mid/bass emphasis, tone, timbre, veil lifting, 'inkey blackness' etc, etc).

For example the introduction of the PS555DR in my system had a dramatic effect on a number of 'elements', but more importantly everything became more coherent, an element that is rather difficult to pin down with HiFi descriptors.

Furthermore, different combinations of components can produce their own particular outcome, often affected by other variables such as the listening room characteristics.

I realise that is not very helpful but IME the interaction of different components on a system are neither entirely predictable nor consistent. So system building is far from formulaic and often requires a degree of trial and, I am afraid, error. Having said this there are a number of well-trodden and mostly successful upgrade paths, many documented in this fine place.

Merry Christmas all.

Popeye posted:

Guinnless posted:

Source first is still a good guide if the system is pretty balanced as your looks to be.  I'm not an expert though.

Thanks, not what I was meaning tho and not looking to change anything with my system. 

Like if a person was seeking better separation between instruments or maybe seeking better depth/layered sound imaging, would certain components or cables be advised?

obviously this is just one example. 

I don't know if it can help but the experience i have with Naim is that the preamplifier is the most important component as it will enhance everything upstream and downstream. 

I totally agree with the above, the preamp is absolutely the most important along with your speaker/room matching. This will allow you to enjoy your various sources.. each source if you like puts its interpretation on the media being replayed (ND555, NDS, CDX2, Hugo, Phono preamp/cartridge  are all great examples of this)... a good preamp will allow you to appreciate your sources without unduly highlighting on one thing or another at the expense of something else . In the Naim world a good NAC absolutely maximises your Naim power amp (NAP)

So my order is 

     1. Preamp/NAC

     2. Speaker/Room matching

     3. Source(s)

     4. Poweramp/NAP  (though clearly your amp needs to adequately drive your speakers/room)

A good preamp makes you realise what you have all those source inputs for!!

Hi Popeye,

like many things it’s about context. If someone is looking for better control of the lower frequencies, a better amp or speakers with tighter bass are the most obvious suggestions. Sometimes others have been in the same situation the OP is in now and can share their steps and the different outcomes.

Another thing is simply to understand how the OP regards his or her system. Answering the question can lead to a better understanding of the current situation, taking the proverbial step back and get an overview.

Other things come to my mind, but we are off to lunch now....

I offer 2 points.  

First, there’s designing a Hi-Fi system.  In my, now oft stated view,  that’s all about synergy from the source recording to the speaker room interface.   This can be a challenge but with the right guidance is achievable. 

But second is the physiological experience of the music.  This is of course best live.  

In terms of domestic listening goes its how the first does the second which is the key. 

Regards,

Lindsay