How to Convert Naim’s WAV to FLAC - While also transferring the metadata.

Posted by: Echolane on 29 December 2018

I want to convert my Naim created WAV files to FLAC.  And, most importantly, transferring the metadata too.  I am told the Uniti Core has no conversion software in its feature set.  Is there any easy way to convert which includes my metadata?  I really don’t want to have to rip all my CDs a second time.

I have run into a major stumbling block in trialing Roon.  It can’t use any of my metadata which was created in the Naim UnitI Core and then meticulously edited to fit my music and the way I listen.  All completely worthless to Roon which cannot read WAV metadata created by Naim.  

The obvious solution is to use  Roon’s metadata.  But, no, that option works very poorly on my albums which are mostly opera and classical.  It applies wrong cover art, so I can’t recognize my music.  It doesn’t properly handle multi CD albums and I have many.   Worst, it classifies many of my albums as “unknown”.  

Sexondary issue/question:  Is there any downside to FLAC?  Is it easily transferable to different proprietary streamers?  I know some argue that WAV sounds better than FLAC, though in theory it shouldn’t.

Posted on: 29 December 2018 by Suzy Wong

If you can get your files onto a NAS or PC then dBPowerAmp (around £35) will do the conversion and transfer whatever metadata is available in your current files. If needed, you could then use MP3Tag to edit the metadata.

FWIW, I have found no difference in SQ between WAV & FLAC.

Of course, YMMV. 

Posted on: 29 December 2018 by ChrisSU

I’m pretty sure the Core is like it’s predecessors in that if you want to make the metadata accessible to non-Naim devices, any conversion to FLAC has to be done on and by the Naim device before transfer. Doing it with third party software doesn’t work. With the Unitiserve etc. this was simply a case of setting it to convert all the WAVs to FLAC and waiting, but it seems that on the Core, you can’t do this - you have to select the format when ripping, and then you’re stuck with it. 

So unfortunately, I think you might be stuffed....sorry!

Posted on: 29 December 2018 by hungryhalibut

I love the Core. Pay more, get less. I have all my files in flac on a proper server, transcode them to wav and get the best of both worlds. Why do people buy the Core? Ah yes, the Naim is worth the extra £1,500 to justify it being a semi functional pain in the arse. 

Posted on: 29 December 2018 by blythe

On the Core, can you choose to rip to FLAC or WAV like the older HDX can?

On my HDX, I initially had it set (as default) to rip to WAV.
I later compared playing FLAC vs WAV and found WAV slightly preferable on my system to my ears.
Later still, for compatibility, I decided to change my HDX to rip to FLAC. In doing so, the HDX now rips to FLAC but importantly, also transcoded all previous rip to FLAC too.

In order to maintain the WAV sound that I like, I set the HDX to transcode during playback so that it streams WAV.

Posted on: 29 December 2018 by garyi

Hi. you want to download MP3TAG for PC, it can look at the file names of wavs and auto apply them to meta data and is how I converted my WAV library.

 

Its free and fast to do.

Posted on: 29 December 2018 by Echolane
blythe posted:

On the Core, can you choose to rip to FLAC or WAV like the older HDX can?

On my HDX, I initially had it set (as default) to rip to WAV.
I later compared playing FLAC vs WAV and found WAV slightly preferable on my system to my ears.
Later still, for compatibility, I decided to change my HDX to rip to FLAC. In doing so, the HDX now rips to FLAC but importantly, also transcoded all previous rip to FLAC too.

In order to maintain the WAV sound that I like, I set the HDX to transcode during playback so that it streams WAV.

Yes, I could have chosen to rip to FLAC.  Unfortunately, I didn’t.  I chose WAV because I mistakenly thought FLAC was lossy (even though it can apparently be reconstructed so that it is not lossy). At the time,  I had no idea of the issue I am now faced with.

But you have raised precisely the other issue I wondered about when I chose WAV over FLAC.  If I choose to play something ripped as FLAC in my Naim Uniti Core, is it upconverted to a lossless form before it is played?  Or is it streamed in FLAC without upcoverting to a lossless form?  It’s all very well to say that FLAC can be converted to a lossless format, which it can be if you are specifically subjecting it to conversion.  But unless it is automatically  upconverted before  playing,  or unless you can force it to be, you might as well be listening to mp3.  Unacceptable!

What does the Naim Uniti Core do?  I see nothing in the app which suggests any option.

Posted on: 29 December 2018 by ChrisSU

FLAC is lossless, although some people have reported a subtle difference in sound quality between FLAC and WAV. I would suggest that you copy a few albums, convert them to FLAC, and compare them for yourself. 

Posted on: 29 December 2018 by J Saville

I've said it here previously, the commercial version of Songkong can apparently parse Naim metadata into WAV files. 

Once the WAV files are tagged, dbpoweramp should be able to watch convert the lot into FLAC if required. But I'd keep them as WAV myself.

Posted on: 30 December 2018 by Echolane
J Saville posted:

I've said it here previously, the commercial version of Songkong can apparently parse Naim metadata into WAV files. 

Once the WAV files are tagged, dbpoweramp should be able to watch convert the lot into FLAC if required. But I'd keep them as WAV myself.

Just to make sure I understand you...

Songkong  apparently can convert WAV to FLAC or  convert WAV to WAV while still decoding and applying the Naim generated metadata to those converted files.    Or is it that it can only convert WAV to WAV?

Just to be sure:  If I should chose to convert my Naim WAV files to Songkong generated WAV*, can those WAV files be processed by other applications now, most particularly Roon?

* Why stay with the troublesome WAV?   Because of the possibility, though not proof, that WAV sounds superior to FLAC.  And that if not Songkong,  then dbpoweramp can at any time convert them to FLAC if needed.

Posted on: 30 December 2018 by nbpf
Echolane posted:

I want to convert my Naim created WAV files to FLAC.  And, most importantly, transferring the metadata too.  I am told the Uniti Core has no conversion software in its feature set.  Is there any easy way to convert which includes my metadata?  I really don’t want to have to rip all my CDs a second time.

...

As already discussed in another thread, the answer is negative: to the best of my knowledge, there is no easy way to convert .WAV Core rips to .FLAC while preserving the rips' metadata. 

Since, in contrast to the Core, the old UnitiServe supports exporting to .FLAC what you could do is to borrow a UnitiServe (e.g. from the dealer who sold you the Core without informing you of its many limitations), import the Core's rips into the UnitiServe and export them to .FLAC from there.

This is certainly not an "easy way" to convert your .WAV rips to .FLAC but it seems to be the only one sanctioned by Naim and it is probably faster than re-ripping all your CDs.

I do not have any first-hand experience of the Uniti Serve or of the Uniti Core. Thus, please take my comments with a grain of salt.

Posted on: 30 December 2018 by ChrisSU

If you do manage to find a converter that will preserve the metadata, you will need to do so outside of the Core music store, otherwise the changes will mess up it’s database. Then you are making the Core somewhat redundant. 

Posted on: 30 December 2018 by Echolane

I have inquired of Songkong as to whether it can read Naim metadata.  If it can decode the Naim metadata then I can proceed.  

Posted on: 30 December 2018 by J Saville

Song Kong is a file tagger. As I understand it, it is able to mass-scan a library of music and will tag the WAV files with the metadata from the Naim metadata files, which are stored with every ripped album. 

There is no conversion done, as the tags are simply inserted into the WAV container. I believe that Song Kong use ID3 tagging, which should be recognized by the likes of dbpoweramp, asset upnp, minimserver, Roon among others. 

No doubt the Song Kong people will confirm this for you, I'd be interested in reading their response. 

Posted on: 30 December 2018 by Echolane
J Saville posted:

Song Kong is a file tagger. As I understand it, it is able to mass-scan a library of music and will tag the WAV files with the metadata from the Naim metadata files, which are stored with every ripped album. 

There is no conversion done, as the tags are simply inserted into the WAV container. I believe that Song Kong use ID3 tagging, which should be recognized by the likes of dbpoweramp, asset upnp, minimserver, Roon among others. 

No doubt the Song Kong people will confirm this for you, I'd be interested in reading their response. 

Response from Songkong:

“Yes SongKong is the only tool that can read naim wav metadata and embed into the wav files tehmselves as standard metadata, this metadata can then be read by Roon.”

Yay!!!

Now to do it.

Posted on: 30 December 2018 by Rich 1

As to the question, I don't think there is an easy way.

Yes Hungry we know you don't like the Core, there's those including me that for all it's shortcomings do. I happen to have a Core and a NAS and use the Core far more. It's horse's for courses. For those that can hear there is a difference in the way music is portrayed. Some may actually prefer the NAS sound. Please don't infer that Core purchasers are idiots as it could equally be said that people who purchase overpriced Naim equipment of any sort are also a screw loose! Rich 

 

Posted on: 30 December 2018 by ChrisSU
Echolane posted:
J Saville posted:

Song Kong is a file tagger. As I understand it, it is able to mass-scan a library of music and will tag the WAV files with the metadata from the Naim metadata files, which are stored with every ripped album. 

There is no conversion done, as the tags are simply inserted into the WAV container. I believe that Song Kong use ID3 tagging, which should be recognized by the likes of dbpoweramp, asset upnp, minimserver, Roon among others. 

No doubt the Song Kong people will confirm this for you, I'd be interested in reading their response. 

Response from Songkong:

“Yes SongKong is the only tool that can read naim wav metadata and embed into the wav files tehmselves as standard metadata, this metadata can then be read by Roon.”

Yay!!!

Now to do it.

As per my earlier post, just remember that using any third party software to change data within the Core music folder can break its database, and this is likely to cause problems later on. Copy the files to a different location, either in the Core downloads folder or on a different drive, to avoid this. 

Posted on: 30 December 2018 by Rich 1

As per Chrissu. If you make a backup of your Core files using the app, navigate to the MQ and Downloads files within the backup folder and copy these wherever you want to edit them. It's difficult to edit as folder may be read only, the the wav files within the folders however, are not protected as such. Rich 

Posted on: 30 December 2018 by garyi

Once more with passion.

 

use mp3tag. It’s free. It will append the data from the file name to the meta data of your wavs you can then choose to retain the wavs which will be read by other apps or then convert to flax with all that yummy metadata. I know this tk be true, I did it.

Posted on: 30 December 2018 by Dungassin
Suzy Wong posted:

If you can get your files onto a NAS or PC then dBPowerAmp (around £35) will do the conversion and transfer whatever metadata is available in your current files. If needed, you could then use MP3Tag to edit the metadata.

 

There is no need to get MP3Tag as well.  dBpoweramp has its own very capable metadata editor.

Posted on: 30 December 2018 by Suzy Wong
Dungassin posted:
Suzy Wong posted:

If you can get your files onto a NAS or PC then dBPowerAmp (around £35) will do the conversion and transfer whatever metadata is available in your current files. If needed, you could then use MP3Tag to edit the metadata.

 

There is no need to get MP3Tag as well.  dBpoweramp has its own very capable metadata editor.

True, but I find MP3Tag easier to use when editing a lot of files at the same time.

 

YMMV

Posted on: 30 December 2018 by garyi

If the OP does not have DBPowerAmp then Mp3tag at the cost of nothing presents far better value for money.

Posted on: 30 December 2018 by Sloop John B

Rather than “free” - at the cost of giving the programmer a “donation”.

I’d like to think that most if not all of us who spend shedloads of money on hifi and music actually give a few quid to the author of this useful program. 

.sjb

 

 

Posted on: 30 December 2018 by Eoink
Sloop John B posted:

Rather than “free” - at the cost of giving the programmer a “donation”.

I’d like to think that most if not all of us who spend shedloads of money on hifi and music actually give a few quid to the author of this useful program. 

.sjb

 

 

Indeed, Florian is a good guy who continually updates the program and sends out a handy newsletter when he updates, I’m happy to support him as I use mp3tag quite a bit to tidy up rips when I’ve been careless with dbPoweramp rips (mp3tag makes tag editing simpler than dbPoweramp.)

Posted on: 30 December 2018 by garyi

Indeed I have contributed to mp3tag never the less in principle it is free.