Maximize SQ on the XS Range without Deviating from the XS SQ Signature

Hi Rajesh, Welcome to the forum with your wonderful XS set.

Did you buy your gear second hand? That is the only reason I can think of as to why you may not have the original 'lavender' interconnects (which are grey to my eye) and standard Naim power cables.

Since you have a rack, IMO your first step would be to replace the wires you have with the Naim original interconnects and power cables. You will also need another SNAIC5 and a SNAIC4 so that you can power the XS2 from your FCXS. I assume the SNAIC 5 that came with the FCXS is on the CD5 XS.

How does your set benefit from the power conditioner? From what I read here, most Naimers don't use them. But a WireWorld Matrix 2 power strip is quite a popular way of distributing the mains to a stack of kit.

I would relax about your speakers, assuming none of them present too much of a challenge to your NAIT XS2 which I doubt.

To summarise, stock cables throughout including SNAICS, then I'd be looking at a FraimLite or Fraim.

You do know there is an XS series Naim FM radio too, don't you ?!

Chris

A wonderful set!

Several options come to mind:

1. Dedicated mains, no power conditioning

2. Use PowerLines on all component

3. Add a pre-loved nDAC to the equation (same size as XS chassis), take digital out of your CD5XS and ND5XS into the nDAC. Put X5XS on the nDAC. This is will turbo-charge your sources to a level that is difficult to comprehend, untill tried.
I know you wrote 'no nDAC’, but still.... 

Hello Rajesh, what is it that you currently don't like about your set?

HI Christopher,

They were all all bought new except for the CD5XS and XP5XS.  I do have all the original interconnects ( DIN) and they are all in use. However, i did not use the stock power cables that came with the units ( an old habit i guess) and i replaced them with the Belden custom cables. Should i use the Naim stock power cables or should i upgrade them with Naim Powerline cables ?

I am using the SNAICs throughout where ever they are supplied. 

About the power conditioner i did read about it in this forum and it will be taken out of service.

About the Fraimlite i am very new to this. I understand that there are 3 types of levels in terms of height. I do not know or understand which type to select for which component and in which order to stack up the units. I mean which goes where. Am i right in my understanding that the fraimlite can be migrated to the Fraim by adding the glass shelf ? if so do all the units need this upgrade or just the source components?

Thanks v much

Rajesh

HI Adam,

Points 1 and 2 noted.

Point 3 about nDAC, i understand from some forum members that the nDAC brings in more resolution, more detail, SQ becomes more analytical which means losing the XS SQ signature ( warm and engaging) and leading to listening fatigue for longer sessions. 

Is the XP5XS designed to connect to the ND5XS ? Can it be connected to the nDAC? in this case what happens to source first ? Am bit confused now. When i connected the XP5XS to my ND5XS, the SQ improved a lot. 

Cheers,

Rajesh

Hello KLOUT10,

There is nothing i dont like about my present setup. However, i do know that there is a lot of scope for maximizing what i already have in terms of sensible upgrades. I just wanted to know in what sequence or priority should i do it to plan my spending.

Cheers,

Rajesh

Hi Adam,

Are the stock Naim power cables supplied with my units same as Power-Line lite cables shown under accessories on the Naim website? If not then am i correct in assuming that in order of increasing quality the cables are 

1)  Stock Naim power cables that came with the unit

2)  Power-line lite

3) Power-line

Thanks 

Rajesh

Rajesh, I would try the standard naim power cables which you still have, without the power conditioner, and see how you go. This is a journey not a race!

I have Isoblue and can't answer your Fraim/ FramLite questions. Somebody else here will.

Best, C.

rrao posted:

HI Adam,

Points 1 and 2 noted.

Point 3 about nDAC, i understand from some forum members that the nDAC brings in more resolution, more detail, SQ becomes more analytical which means losing the XS SQ signature ( warm and engaging) and leading to listening fatigue for longer sessions. 

Is the XP5XS designed to connect to the ND5XS ? Can it be connected to the nDAC? in this case what happens to source first ? Am bit confused now. When i connected the XP5XS to my ND5XS, the SQ improved a lot. 

Cheers,

Rajesh

 

 

nDAC is anything but analytical. It’s just very resolving. Don’t believe everything you read.
Best to hear it yourself, but be prepared for the unexpected - it really is a great source component.

nDAC can work on its own (it has a built in transformer) and can use any of the NAIM source power-supplies: XP5XS, XPS and 555PS. They connect via a Burndy cable (supplied with XP5XS). When using a power supply, the in-built transformer is still being used - it needs to be connecteed. What happens is that a digital and analogue sections are now powered by separate transformers.

I had the same mad dream as yours - to own and maximize a complete 5x series system (the 5x is the predecessor to the xs).  I had the same reasons as you - keep the sound signature unadulterated as the designers intended.  And I just about got there (powerlines, hiline, good shelving).  But it never quite excelled so I took a chance on a non-naim source - the Chord Hugo - which was better, even with Naim amplification.  I then went to a Supernait; one box that sounded better than three (122/150/flatcap).  And suddenly there was no longer a need for multiple powerlines or a hiline, and I didn't need as many shelves. 

So while what you are doing (powerlines, naim frame etc) will improve your system they are not logical upgrades cost-wise for the xs series.  Buy a Quadraspire Evo rack, maybe one powerline (no more) and have some fun figuring out where it works best, and make sure that the flatcap is on the CD player only.  NACA5 as well.  Then call it a day.  After the support shelf, this system will have taken you about as far as it will go.  

If that's not enough for you start pricing the next tier - a 202/200 or Supernait.  At used prices the gap is not as wide as you may think, and the performance will be worth that price.    

rrao posted:

Hi Adam,

Are the stock Naim power cables supplied with my units same as Power-Line lite cables shown under accessories on the Naim website? If not then am i correct in assuming that in order of increasing quality the cables are 

1)  Stock Naim power cables that came with the unit

2)  Power-line lite

3) Power-line

Thanks 

Rajesh

I’ve experimented with a lot of power cables. And found NAIM to be the best - either stock (that came in a box) or PowerLine as an upgrade. They preserved the sound, just made it better.

Well you could spend 3-4 grand on a Fraim and a few fancy Powerlines and Hiline interconnect. IMO the Fraim is worthwhile, the rest not at all. I prefer the standard lavender interconnect and standard mains cable anyway. Alternatively you could spend 3 grand or less on a CDS3/XPS2 that would completely enhance your listening experience and has all the qualities of what you have, and then some. So, a few tweaks with fancy cables, or a completely new experience from your favourite recordings.

Hi Rajesh,

At this stage I would revert to the standard Naim wires.   Adam’s suggestion for a dedicated radial spur would be my first change.  A good electrician would advise you.   3 or 4 unswitched  MK doubles would really do the trick.

Then you ask about speakers.   I can’t advise on ATC but know they are popular. I would suggest Neat or Kudos but you need to try in your room.

Good luck.

Lindsay 

Hi, what’s your source for the ND5-XS? Would an XS2 and/or a Core be worth considering?

Isoblue racking might be enough for the xs series, and suit its sound signature, the Fraims make more sense with the classic series. The original power cables came with mk branded plugs in the UK before the powerline lite was released but if upgrading the full powerline is the one to try (on the CD5xs rather than the fc2xs) after the conditioner is gone. Do experiment with plug order if you use a block, you may hear no difference at xs level but its free.

hastings posted:

I had the same mad dream as yours - to own and maximize a complete 5x series system (the 5x is the predecessor to the xs).  I had the same reasons as you - keep the sound signature unadulterated as the designers intended.  And I just about got there (powerlines, hiline, good shelving).  But it never quite excelled so I took a chance on a non-naim source - the Chord Hugo - which was better, even with Naim amplification.  I then went to a Supernait; one box that sounded better than three (122/150/flatcap).  And suddenly there was no longer a need for multiple powerlines or a hiline, and I didn't need as many shelves. 

So while what you are doing (powerlines, naim frame etc) will improve your system they are not logical upgrades cost-wise for the xs series.  Buy a Quadraspire Evo rack, maybe one powerline (no more) and have some fun figuring out where it works best, and make sure that the flatcap is on the CD player only.  NACA5 as well.  Then call it a day.  After the support shelf, this system will have taken you about as far as it will go.  

If that's not enough for you start pricing the next tier - a 202/200 or Supernait.  At used prices the gap is not as wide as you may think, and the performance will be worth that price.    

Hi Hastings,

Does Supernait have the same DNA as the Nait XS ? I mean i dont want to drift too much into the resolution , analytical, and hi-fi if you know what i mean. Apart from this Naim XS system i also have a Denon System ( PMA-2020AE / DCD-2020AE / DCD-A100), a Yamaha System ( A-S2000 , CD-S1000), Sanusui A-717, Rega Planet and Jupiter, Jolida A100 and Advantage CD1. I just want to play and enjoy various Sound signatures from different manufacturers. 

Why do you say the FCXS has to be only on the CD5XS ? The FCXS can support both the CD5XS as well as my NaitXS. 

I have noted all your points on the XS upgrade options. Thanks

Hi Rajesh

Great system by the way.

1. Hilines  between the ND5XS, CD and the Nait will be a positive move I used one between ND5XS and a 202 and the change was instant and did much more than Powerlines.

2. I found that Powerlines did nothing for my system but have been told that this is because I don't have a dedicated mains but what I did find to be a nice simple solution that did tidy things up a bit soundwise was an original Grahams Hydra apart from those two changes I would keep all the cables stock.

3. There are alternatives to a Naim Fraim sonically, Isoblue, Hutter and Quadraspire will all work but if you are prepared to shell out for one then few look nicer.

Lasly I would definitely demo the new ND5XS but it won't take your XP5XS PSU of course so perhaps take the Mk 1 and psu with you to compare.

Lastly I'd be wary of ATC speakers because they like lots of power perhaps something from PMC would work better.

Good luck and happy listening and if you really want an upgrade buy a decent record player!

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Hi Rajesh,

At this stage I would revert to the standard Naim wires.   Adam’s suggestion for a dedicated radial spur would be my first change.  A good electrician would advise you.   3 or 4 unswitched  MK doubles would really do the trick.

Then you ask about speakers.   I can’t advise on ATC but know they are popular. I would suggest Neat or Kudos but you need to try in your room.

Good luck.

Lindsay 

Hello,

Dedicated radial spur is definitely a big yes. However, why do you prefer "Unswitched" outlets ? I thought a isolator would be better for switching.

I live in Bahrain where i have no option whatsoever for any demo on electronics let alone speakers, so i have to go by online reviews and take my chances.

Cheers

Mike Sullivan posted:

Hi, what’s your source for the ND5-XS? Would an XS2 and/or a Core be worth considering?

Hi Mike, 

For the ND5XS i use it to stream itunes from my NAS and also Internet radio. 

By XS2 you mean Power enhancements? for that i already have an XP5XS. I am new to "Core" so im not sure how it will partner with my ND5XS

Cheers

Bob the Builder posted:

Hi Rajesh

Great system by the way.

1. Hilines  between the ND5XS, CD and the Nait will be a positive move I used one between ND5XS and a 202 and the change was instant and did much more than Powerlines.

2. I found that Powerlines did nothing for my system but have been told that this is because I don't have a dedicated mains but what I did find to be a nice simple solution that did tidy things up a bit soundwise was an original Grahams Hydra apart from those two changes I would keep all the cables stock.

3. There are alternatives to a Naim Fraim sonically, Isoblue, Hutter and Quadraspire will all work but if you are prepared to shell out for one then few look nicer.

Lasly I would definitely demo the new ND5XS but it won't take your XP5XS PSU of course so perhaps take the Mk 1 and psu with you to compare.

Lastly I'd be wary of ATC speakers because they like lots of power perhaps something from PMC would work better.

Good luck and happy listening and if you really want an upgrade buy a decent record player!

Hi Bob,

Hiline from source to Amp looks like a logical step. Point noted.

Naim stock cables on a dedicated spur seems to be the way to go from all the advice here from members.

For Rack - isoblue and Quadraspire are looking good as alternatives to Fraim. Point noted.

Your suggestion to go in for a record player is well taken. I would take that up before upgrading my ND5XS to the next Gen. 

PMC and ATC are two popular speakers in this forum i can see. Since i dont have demo opportunities here i just have to go with online reviews.

Cheers

A spur and a radial are different things. A spur is just a new connection off an existing ring. A radial is a new connection back to the consumer unit for one or more sockets. A dedicated radial is what you need, preferably from a separate consumer unit. 

rrao posted:

hastings posted:

 

Hi Hastings,

Does Supernait have the same DNA as the Nait XS ? I mean i dont want to drift too much into the resolution , analytical, and hi-fi if you know what i mean. Apart from this Naim XS system i also have a Denon System ( PMA-2020AE / DCD-2020AE / DCD-A100), a Yamaha System ( A-S2000 , CD-S1000), Sanusui A-717, Rega Planet and Jupiter, Jolida A100 and Advantage CD1. I just want to play and enjoy various Sound signatures from different manufacturers. 

Why do you say the FCXS has to be only on the CD5XS ? The FCXS can support both the CD5XS as well as my NaitXS. 

I have noted all your points on the XS upgrade options. Thanks

 

I can assure you that every NAIM component, up the ladder from Nait XS has the NAIM signature sound. It unfortunately (mostly for our wallets) just gets better and better. Although the cost-vs-sound improvement curve is an increasing line, but at a declininng marginal rate (diminishing returns to scale).
Your collection and a statement ‘I want to listen to various sound signatures) reminds me of a very good friend of mine. He’d experiment for ever. Untill one day I just ‘forced’ him to listen to a SuperNait2 and CDX2. Finally a peace has been restored

rrao posted:

Mike Sullivan posted:

Hi, what’s your source for the ND5-XS? Would an XS2 and/or a Core be worth considering?

Hi Mike, 

For the ND5XS i use it to stream itunes from my NAS and also Internet radio. 

By XS2 you mean Power enhancements? for that i already have an XP5XS. I am new to "Core" so im not sure how it will partner with my ND5XS

Cheers

Hi Rajesh,

The Core would replace iTunes as your source, you would rip your CDs to the hard-drive in the Core and connect it to the ND5-XS via ethernet. That would improve your source significantly, though you would have to re-rip you're CDs. I went from i-Tunes to the Core with my Nova and it is an improved sound quality and with better usability and reliability. That would maximise the XS SQ signature without changing anting else in the system.

By the XS2, I meant the ND5-XS2, though I have no idea whether it is better SQ wise than the ND5-XS, as I haven't heard either - but again, stays in the XS range.

Good luck.

Flatcap XS on both CD5XS and Nait XS2, XP5XS on ND5XS.  Standard Naim cables on all, I.e those that came with the boxes, exception is the additional SNAICS for FCXS to Nait - you’ll have to source those.

Sit back, and listen to your optimised system!

To diverge greatly from some other recommendations, other thab a dedicated rack, I'd not muck with cabling other than to put the stock Naim mains leads back in. I have 4 PowerLines. All good and worthwhile but order of precedent is important.

I think your biggest bang for your buck will be:

1. Swap in stock mains cables and drop the power conditioner.

2. Dedicated rack. Don't go higher than 6 levels. 4 is best but 6 is workable. Beyond that they get a bit unsteady.

If you want to take it further at more expense I think either of the following is worth considering:

1. Second hand nDAC.

2. Add a NAP200 power amp and use the Nait as a pre. 

Both of the latter are gateways out of the XS range though.