A little forward on 2% of Music??

Your profile shows are pretty rare amplification and speaker chain. I think most will find it difficult to comment not being familiar with the ND555 in a non Naim context. 

I guess, trying to be constructive, a few things spring to mind:

1. Is the ND555 fully run in? Naim units take 2-3 months to really run in.

2. Is your observation that this harshness was specifically  introduced by the ND555? What was your previous streamer?

3. Can you describe in more detail how this brightness presents itself? Do the passages of bright music share anything in common such as being higher in pitch to the rest of the track or being loud passages? 

4. If you had Naim amplification, someone would have said this by now; how long has it been since your pre and power amps were serviced and recapped? This is still required for non Naim stuff even if downplayed. If the answer is in the 10 year range, I'd consider finding out if the manufacturer will recap them. 

5. Do you have access via a dealer to another very high end streaming source to swap in and compare?

I think before making blind suggestions for fixing the problem, the first priority should be to determine where the problem lies. And if you think it is the streamer already, to sanity check that assumption somehow and go from there.

I would echo what @feeling zen has said about the ND555. During burn in I had period and moments where a track(s) sounded shrill, which faded away. After 2 months or so this passed. I now have a new replacement, and 3 weeks in, it's having the odd episode of brightnesss. Just have to persevere, it’s worth it.

If it was a continual problem then it would be worth looking further but as it's only affecting 2% of your listening then i'd live with it and enjoy the remaining 98%. Sounds like you've got it pretty much sorted (and it's an interesting combination of kit you have there)

Recordings, mixes and masterings are as different from each other as can be. I have unlistenable discs (not because of shrillness, but because of sloppiness in the production) and wonderful recordings. Even tracks in the same disc are not always homogeneous sounding.

If you expect your system to sound very good or the same each time, you are going to meet a great disappointment. What's more, your system looks extremely revealing, so give the newest box time and then reflect on the balance you have chosen and put together. A simple suggestion based on experience.

I listened to German Physics omnidirectional floor standers a couple of times in a store, and the sound was average, systematically aggressive; nothing unlistenable, but fatiguing in the long run. But the 3D rendition of the stage was so extraordinary that I wondered if I would have lived with it. If it wasn't for the price and the almost unique ugliness of the aesthetics, I probably would.

We must learn to live with 24/7 of compromises. Best for your music time, though: you have and unusual and intriguing set, which I'd like to see and hear (safe perhaps for the ND555, because I am very familiar with Naim and I am not a fan of streaming).

Max

What was the source before the ND555 ? What was it that you felt could be improved upon with the Naim ?   Could be a mismatch of disparate voicing or gain.

Is it consistently the same recordings that sound bright and do they have anything else in common?

Let me propose a test piece, Deryck Cooke’s completion of Mahler's 10th recorded by Simon Rattle and the BPO. A recording with a wide dynamic range and a sustained loud passage that can test your amplifier’s current reserves. On a somewhat lesser scale, when I had a pair of Thiel CS1.6 on loan and ran them from a Rega Maia with the wick turned up to hear the quieter bits, the loud section made the sound seem to sparkle and jump forwards suddenly. I interpreted this to be the amp running out of power supply. I bought a pair anyway (but not those ones) and put a Naim 250 into them and never had a repeat. This does rather depend on whether you like Mahler of course, you have to be able to enjoy the music for an hour or so but you don’t have to listen our for the brightness, it’s unmissable if it happens. This should highlight any issue with the Krell with the impedence of the speakers.

I would echo much of what Feeling Zen described. In addition also realize that Naim as such is more forward and can sound ugly for some people who,like a more laid back presentation. It’s sometimes also the match of the components which can create a certain forward harshness. If it’s there since you have the ND555, it could also be about run in or the fact that your ND555 has a quality of signal which puts the rest of the chain to the test, in a way it hadn’t been tested before.

For your path forward I would suggest a couple of steps...

1. First ensure the ND555 is well run in, so for the coming period force the run a bit by having the ND555 more or less permanently on. 

2. Look also at your interconnects they might also have an impact on not being capable to deal with the quality of the signal in the best way.

3. Room acoustic good or suboptimal ? , less expensive to improve upon.

4. Provisioning of electricity can also provide a certain harshness, the initial improvements are relatively cheap (fuse, connection in the wall).

And perhaps as a last resort accept what you have. No system sounds 100 percent of the time perfect, every system has it’s weak points.

Bert Schurink posted:

I would echo much of what Feeling Zen described. In addition also realize that Naim as such is more forward and can sound ugly for some people who,like a more laid back presentation. It’s sometimes also the match of the components which can create a certain forward harshness. If it’s there since you have the ND555, it could also be about run in or the fact that your ND555 has a quality of signal which puts the rest of the chain to the test, in a way it hadn’t been tested before.

For your path forward I would suggest a couple of steps...

1. First ensure the ND555 is well run in, so for the coming period force the run a bit by having the ND555 more or less permanently on. 

2. Look also at your interconnects they might also have an impact on not being capable to deal with the quality of the signal in the best way.

3. Room acoustic good or suboptimal ? , less expensive to improve upon.

4. Provisioning of electricity can also provide a certain harshness, the initial improvements are relatively cheap (fuse, connection in the wall).

 

And perhaps as a last resort accept what you have. No system sounds 100 percent of the time perfect, every system has it’s weak points.

Agree with Bert & Zen.....

Hello All

Thanks for the many positive comments about the 2% question.  I am doing a group answer here to keep things a bit more organized, and I have been traveling from Home to Seattle, Washington for the past 24 hours (we lost an engine in Boston) so I am just catching up.

feeling_zen

Yes I do have a rare amp and Speaker Set in my Profile.  In a former life, I founded, with 2 associates, Apogee Acoustics and was the lead force/designer behind the Full Range Ribbons and the Scintillas.  Took my life in another direction 34 years ago and had not listened to audio except in my car radio for that time.  Got the itch to try to resurrect a music system about a year ago and went big.  So the Scintillas are quite good and a sentimental choice--being one ohm, that dictates the amplifier choice.  (BTW Naim passed on driving one ohm when pursued by my dealer).  

I am 3 weeks in on the ND555, so I know I have another 3 months of burn in ahead of me.  So getting short periods of brightness is part of the process--I had remembered darkness reported but not forward or bright in the burn in comments.  Thanks to all who confirmed that occasional brightness is just part of the deal.  I replaced an NDX which was quite good.  I had an NDX2 on order, but after hearing all the comments on this Forum, based on how good the NDX was sounding, decided to not take baby steps and do things once--and after 34 years of saving, I could afford to do that.  Right out of the box, the ND555 was definitely one or two steps up from the NDX.  

The preamp is new and has no capacitors, while the Krell was completely rebuilt and recapped in November.  So the chain is all new or rebuilt--except the crossover in the Scintillas, which I will be doing this year.  New caps, foil inductors, and audiophile wire INSIDE!

GAZZA

Glad you hear that the shrill that you experienced passed, as mine has seemed to.

James N

I agree with James, that one should expect occasional times when things are not right, and its reasonable to expect that one's system is not going to sound sublime 100% of the time--after all we are subject to source material and recording anomalies.

Massimo Bertola

I agree that if one is expecting great sound 100% of the time, one will be disappointed .  I was just looking for others to confirm that they also have short moments, runs, tracks that are not quite right--its something that I don't remember being posted in the past.

TOBY JUG

I replaced an NDX with the 555.  It was primarily the nearly unanimous comments about the 555 on this Forum that pushed me to go for it.  I did it with out an audition, but with the support of my local (500 miles away) Naim dealer who I trust--and it was verified.

Yeti 42

Thanks for the suggestion of Mahler's 10th/Deryck Cooke.  That sounds like a good test.  While my amp is rated at 80 watts into 8 ohms, it delivers 640 watts into 1 ohm, but the speakers are inefficient.  I won't be surprised if it runs out of gas on this one.  The KSA-80 is supposed to be the best sounding on these speakers.  Of course, Krell makes amps of greater power, but from what I have read, its a tradeoff and more power helps the bass, but the midrange may suffer.  The music is plenty loud now.  Spent the money on the 555 instead.  Crazy isn't it, were talking well over half a hundred grand for a system and we use the word tradeoff?  OMG! 

Bert Schurink

My 555 is in week 3.  I knew its was gong to be 3 months.  No problem.  Just needed confirmation of the forward/bright thing.  I have some alternate interconnects coming.  I will be trying them.  I do use an Inakustics 3500P line conditioner.  I have read that Naim suggest not doing that.  I have that experiment to run.  Too many variables.

Again

Thanks to all.  Enjoying a great system.   Thanks Naim for this.  Also, I using only the Unity Core, and the 555, the Naim iPhone app and the iPad app.  Took some learning and getting used to, but no issues with freeze ups or other stuff at this point.  I want to keep my audio system separate from my computer.  I am on my computer about 18 hours a day, struggling with Windows updates, firmware changes, software bugs, etc.  I don't need that in my recreational audio the reason.  Oh, I also have Qb in the living room so the sound from the upstairs music room can be shared.

Clear Skies

Bailyhill

Bailyhill posted:

I was just looking for others to confirm that they also have short moments, runs, tracks that are not quite right--its something that I don't remember being posted in the past.

 Clear Skies

Bailyhill

Yes, we have.... I think all of us have. Just think of how often the contrary – people posting about unexpected moments of sonic bliss – has occurred...

Clear skies to you.

M.

Massimo Bertola posted:

Bailyhill posted:

I was just looking for others to confirm that they also have short moments, runs, tracks that are not quite right--its something that I don't remember being posted in the past.

 Clear Skies

Bailyhill

Yes, we have.... I think all of us have. Just think of how often the contrary – people posting about unexpected moments of sonic bliss – has occurred...

Clear skies to you.

M.

Yes that's a good way to put it.  Sonic Bliss>>>>>>the opposite

Bailyhill