Naim DAC - Is there ANY word?

quote:

Originally posted by pcstockton:

Something like "It is in development and will be 18-24 months out" or "We have no interest and NEVER will produce one".... whatever.

If they dont, before they know it, half their sales will be diverted to Mr. Lavry's new home on the Puget Sound.

Naim have a big problem regarding costs. They have a heavy overhead in the form of many design engineers. But their sales are necessarily tiny compared to the mass market.

The Mac/Lavry combo offers excellent VFM. There will always be those who will buy a Naim DAC because of the brand. Good for them and Naim. But in the wider world a Naim DAC will be judged on pure VFM.

quote:

Originally posted by Paul Stephenson:

After what our friend jonh said to me about the performance he heard of the lavry I think you should wait, who knows what might happen, maybe we stopped dbl production to make way for the dac

What did he say? Are you suggesting there might be some flaw with the Lavry?

a Naim DAC because of the brand.

Wrong sorry Richard, if we did one or any product its because of the sound...

if you read jon's report at uhes its the sound that needs fixing he implies, if you view that as a flaw, well in my view....

Naim could easily do a DAC at any one (or all!!!!) of the following price points:

1) take SuperNait DAC stuff and wrap it into a half width box for hicap money -- call it 800 quid

Problem with this is that you would really need an internal PSU, and space would be tight. But it wouldnt be hard to wipe the floor clean of the current "prosumer" dacs based on what I have heard (lavry, apogee, motu ultralite, focusrite)

2) do the equivalent of the superline, but as a dac -- mechanically floating board in brass with big springs (just like superline) -- power supply options run as superline:

a) power from naim preamp on line level connection
b) hicap
c) supercap

Call it 2k plus PSU if you dont have naim preamp

3) 500 series superproduct -- full width, twin box, absolutely no limits product -- price tag of ooo-deary-me!

jon

quote:

Originally posted by Paul Stephenson:
a Naim DAC because of the brand.

Wrong sorry Richard, if we did one or any product its because of the sound...

if you read jon's report at uhes its the sound that needs fixing he implies, if you view that as a flaw, well in my view....

Yes, I would like to buy Naim DAC because of the sound, I hope Naim is working on that...

Respect to Lavry performance, well, we all know there are different opinions but what I would like to say is that the transport used determines the Lavry performance. I think this DAC deserves something better than an standard digital out from a Mac.

quote:

Originally posted by goldfinch:
but what I would like to say is that the transport used determines the Lavry performance.

No it doesn't. :x

I can also change a lot by swapping cables but it is what it is.

quote:

Originally posted by kuma:

quote:

Originally posted by goldfinch:
but what I would like to say is that the transport used determines the Lavry performance.

No it doesn't. :x

I can also change a lot by swapping cables but it is what it is.

kuma, can we just share opinions?
I can hear a difference depending on what device is used for streaming so IMO transport matters and because of that Mac/Lavry performance is not equal to Lavry performance. That's all I wanted to express.

goldfinch,

Of course I could hear the difference between the transport used. ( HDX and Krell )

No doubt that a Mac/Lavry has a particular presentation of its own. ( I haven't tried it but I have on other DACs in the past )

The DAC basically offered a decent performance for what it costs for some listeners and nothing more.

It does have a flavour of its own and it shows up no matter which transport/cabling was being used.

Kuma I can't quite understand how this sits, when some posters have sold their CDs3's in preference for the considerably cheaper Lavry dac.

DHT,

Everyone has different ears and sonic priority.

I personally couldn't live with it but others might.

Considering that you already have a two box HDX (HDX + Power Supply), I suspect that a high-end HDX will have a separate D/A associated with it. So, maybe that is how a Naim D/A comes to be.

All I want to know it, will it have volume control and will it be part of the Naimnet crew?

quote:

Originally posted by kuma:
goldfinch,

Of course I could hear the difference between the transport used. ( HDX and Krell )

No doubt that a Mac/Lavry has a particular presentation of its own. ( I haven't tried it but I have on other DACs in the past )

The DAC basically offered a decent performance for what it costs for some listeners and nothing more.

It does have a flavour of its own and it shows up no matter which transport/cabling was being used.

Kuma, what you found about its "own flavour" or relatively insensitivity to transport is well documented in other forums. It is supposed to be related with how the Lavry cope with jitter. Nonetheless, there are differences, just subtle, but they may exist.
This Lavry's character is really disturbing,
If you think about how many transports + Dac systems and compare them to a DAC that it sounds pretty decent regardless the transport used!

quote:

Originally posted by goldfinch:
If you think about how many transports + Dac systems and compare them to a DAC that it sounds pretty decent regardless the transport used!

If I start with a DAC that I like better, relative differences in transports are less important.

I tried Shiagraki DAC in various transports and even tho I could hear the differences I liked this DAC no matter which transport I used.

quote:

I tried Shiagraki DAC in various transports and even tho I could hear the differences I liked this DAC no matter which transport I used.

could it be , that 47 labs sounds anyway livelier compared to naim ?

I'm sure a dedicated Naim DAC would sound fab.

But what would they recommend feeding it with?

John.

John

Good question. I haven't fully grasped just what this new HDX does, nor the Lavry thinggy.

I presume that a Naim DAC would be fed from a Hard-disk or other memory system associated with a computer. This in turn would be fed either by a high-definition download from an authorised webb site or, a cd, played on a high quality cd player and "ripped" to the hard disk. The benefit of the cd/player/rip route would appear to be that it overcomes much of the dreaded "jitter" and "on-the-fly error reading" thus producing an end product that sounds better than the initial cd/cd player.

But I am probably wrong

Cheers

Don

quote:

Originally posted by Don Atkinson:
I haven't fully grasped just what this new HDX does
Cheers
Don

Don, you need to go where you can listen to a properly set-up HDX (+/- XPS2/555PS). I think then, you'll understand what the HDX "thinggy" does.

quote:

Originally posted by DHT:
Kuma I can't quite understand how this sits, when some posters have sold their CDs3's in preference for the considerably cheaper Lavry dac.

Many of us that have heard the Lavry don't understand that decision when we think a CD5i or SN DAC sounds more right. A few ex Naim CDP owners repeating their preference is far from a consensus. The Lavry does a certain thing that some love and others think is a bit off. I'm sure most Naim CDP owners are just happy with their players and have no reason to comment on what is really just another of many options they did not prefer. To each their own. Listen for yourself and decide. I'm sure that you've also disagreed with what others have done in different circumstances so you're on your own. My impressions mirror Kuma's. Fine dac for the price but not ground breaking or special.

Goldfinch, there are differences in sources on the Lavry but less so in the jitter reducing(reclocking) crystal mode. It will however sound best through narrow with a low jitter source. This is the reason that narrow mode is offered. It's better with good input. Sources like Mac tos out sounds better after reclocking in crystal mode. When I used coax out from a TC, narrow was clearly better and crystal deteriorated it's performance. The 2 were more similar in crystal mode with some of the TC's improvement being negated by reclocking. There's always differences but crystal mode diminishes them. Sometimes for the better and sometimes not so much.

quote:

Originally posted by DHT:
Kuma I can't quite understand how this sits, when some posters have sold their CDs3's in preference for the considerably cheaper Lavry dac.

I heard it recently at the UHES event. And not just for one track, we listened to it on and off across a whole day. And tried all the various settings from the mac.

its not bad. Its definitely at the good end of the spectrum for equivalent 500 pound dac units. I prefer the MOTU Ultralite, which is different but about equal overall.

For a Mac user, the Apogee Duet is a far better choice, because it is properly integrated into the OS too, and makes a fine fine fine playback unit for the money (under 500 dollars if i remember right).

Those who prefer maclavry to CDS3... <shrugs>

Theres only four choices there:

1) they have strange hearing (or I have, and I dont think so)

2) their system sounds very odd (or the UHES one did, and I dont think so)

3) their vocabulary has no commonality with mine for describing what we hear

4) the production variability of the lavry is huge, and they have a good one and I heard a bad one.

Those are the only options really.

quote:

Originally posted by Frank F:
"Theres only four choices there:"

5) Set up??

I assumed that was part of 2)

quote:

Originally posted by js:
Many of us that have heard the Lavry don't understand that decision when we think a CD5i or SN DAC sounds more right. A few ex Naim CDP owners repeating their preference is far from a consensus.

Not just "ex Naim CDP owners", and not just a few Forum folks either js; a fair few 555 owners too.

Jon's posting is spot on, and it has always seemed obvious to me, trusting as I do my own ears and those of the many others who've also heard the Lavry do good things, that the obvious answer is Jon's number 4).

Is there anyone on the forum ( in the UK preferably) currently running a Mac/transport Lavry and a Naim cdp, it would be interesting to hear them side by side.H

quote:

Originally posted by tonym:

Jon's posting is spot on, and it has always seemed obvious to me, trusting as I do my own ears and those of the many others who've also heard the Lavry do good things, that the obvious answer is Jon's number 4).

To be fair to lavry, I have no idea what their production tolerance is like. I've heard two units, and both sounded similar to me, on very different playback systems.

And I am not suggesting that their build quality is variable or of poor quality.

However, the *possibility* of it being so is clearly a factor which *could* explain these differences. As could 1, 2, or 3!

Hi all,

I've not heard a Lavry at all, but I am a CD2 and SB3 - Beresford DAC owner. (into 52/supercap/250/SBLs)

When I got the DAC I was amazed at how good it sounded out of the box - it really seemed to theaten my CD2! lots of round earth qualities jumped out at me (air and space were very impressive).

9 months on I've re-set up my system (rebuilt fraim and vigorously unplugged and plugged all connections) and, importantly, replaced the Switch-mode power supplies with linear transformers on both the SB3 and DAC.

I've also added a pair of SBLs replacing my trusty ProAC Response 1SCs - SBLs are definitely more revealing.

What has surprised me as I've done the process that each tweak that I thought would benefit the DAC has also benefited my CD2 to a greater extent!

This was particularly so from the power supply mods - it is now obvious to me that the SB3/DAC combo power supplies were doing something rather nasty to the CD2. So when I got a small improvement in the DAC performance from the changeover - the CD2 just leapt ahead!!!

Currently although the SB3 Beresford does sound good to me (at initial listen it I would say it is superficially close to the CD2) I hardly play it - as the CD2 is simply more musical and fun to listen to.

Hope this helps!
Chris

quote:

Originally posted by jon honeyball:

To be fair to lavry, I have no idea what their production tolerance is like. I've heard two units, and both sounded similar to me, on very different playback systems.

And I am not suggesting that their build quality is variable or of poor quality.

However, the *possibility* of it being so is clearly a factor which *could* explain these differences. As could 1, 2, or 3!

Not wishing to troll through the one or two (!) Lavry-related postings, there are a couple of instances where it's been clear one Lavry has sounded inferior to another. I know of one specific case where a direct comparison highlighted a possible fault with one unit and it was therefore returned. Without this direct comparison I suspect the owner would assume there was a problem with his setup or maybe the product just wasn't as good as others here have found.

Variations in Hi-Fi components is pretty common, and my understanding is that Lavry has changed its manufacturing process and adapted the design over earlier units; for good or ill I cannot say.

Without tediously going over old ground variation in quality seems the most likely possibility.