I am confused: the bare ND5XS2 seems to beat ND5XS2 + nDAC

When you used the nDAC I assume you disabled the ND5XS2 analogue output? And set the nDAC chassis to ground.

bdnyc posted:

Hi JS Audio-

If your stereo is not controlled by some form of programmable remote, I would encourage you to experiment with using the Tuner input on your pre-amp for your ND 555.    This input on most Naim pre-amps is somewhat better sounding than the others.    It is not a massive difference either way, but it can be a bit cleaner and more coherent sounding in a higher resolution system such as yours.

Good luck,

Bruce

 

Is this also true for the Nac 152 xs?

As you can see on the web, it has a lot of din and duplicated rca input compared to classic pre.

M

Richard Dane posted:

As it's a Naim system and you are using  single Naim source then yes, set the signal ground switch to the default setting.

So, conversely, if I use a non Naim phono stage as another source, has the ND5XS 2 to be set on floating?

M.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

one Naim employee I spoke to didn’t quite understand, with a smile on his face, why they put a transport output on the ND555.

Sure not for the competition... which leaves us with some interesting speculations...
A Statement level DAC ? 

Hi Bruce 

good to hear from you ,thanks for the advice. Lots of subtleties in this business

TomSer posted:

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

one Naim employee I spoke to didn’t quite understand, with a smile on his face, why they put a transport output on the ND555.

Sure not for the competition... which leaves us with some interesting speculations...
A Statement level DAC ? 

Because of course people are dying to spend GBP20K on a Stream/PSU combo and then not use the built-in DAC and output stage.

I feel like it is unlikely Naim will return to the DAC market. I actually hope I am wrong there. However, if they do, there are non Naim dedicated streamer transports out there that already cost as much as a ND555 that have no internal DAC. While I might be inclined to upgrade a very old Naim streamer with a DAC to give it new life if functionality was not an issue, I'd never buy one from the outset just to use as a transport. To me, buying a streamer to use as a DAC and not use the streaming board makes far more sense than the other way around.

After all, plenty of other hifi manufacturers out there have streamers and you know what they generally call them? "Network enabled DACs".

A 500 level separate DAC to connect to your £20,000 streamers those of you with money to burn must be salivating at the prospect. You never know it might need three 555DR's and it's own dedicated Fraim wooohooooo!!!!

Bob the Builder posted:

A 500 level separate DAC to connect to your £20,000 streamers those of you with money to burn must be salivating at the prospect. You never know it might need three 555DR's and it's own dedicated Fraim wooohooooo!!!!

Now, now, don’t be silly. Each PS would need its own Fraim.

M@rtin posted:

I switched over all cables in my system and removed all other electrical devices except my HiFi stuff from the socket close to the HiFi-system. So now the HiFi is on own fuse (13 A) in the switchboard. 

I have done more tests today with only moving the Hi-Line between the ND5XS2 and the nDAC (The BNC was removed when I played with the bare streamer. I do not have other devices connected to my Nait except the power supply. 

My impression from the day when I have done the comparison between ND5XS2 and nDAC is: 

The sound from the ND5 is clearer (but not much) and also a little bit nasal but not in a bad context. I also think that the timing is better with the bare ND5. With the ND5 connected to the nDAC I got some deeper bass and overall more damped /darker sound (but not in a bad context), someone could probably say more like a vinyl sound. My feeling when I’m listening to a couple of songs without changing back and forth and not focusing on specific details is that the bare ND5 feels more right. 

I have to say that the difference between the bare ND5XS2 and ND5XS2+ nDAC is quite small compared to the difference between a bare CD5XS and CD5XS + nDAC as I remember.

I found the same when comparing SQ of my NDX2 + nDAC + PSU compared to NDX2 + PSU into pre via DIN. The nDAC produced slightly more bass weight with a darker, damped sound, but I agree that the differences were very small - certainly compared to CD5XS and CD5XS + nDAC. I found with NDX2 the nDAC wasn’t really adding anything so I’ve now sold it on

Richard Dane posted:

You should only have one source with the signal ground connected to earth. Typically this is a NAim CD player. Other Naim sources have switchable signal grounds, in which case set to float.

Thus, assuming that only one source (a Naim DAC, for example) is connected to a Naim amplifier, that source should be set to "Chassis", right? Thanks, nbpf

Yes, that's right.

nbpf posted:

Richard Dane posted:

You should only have one source with the signal ground connected to earth. Typically this is a NAim CD player. Other Naim sources have switchable signal grounds, in which case set to float.

Thus, assuming that only one source (a Naim DAC, for example) is connected to a Naim amplifier, that source should be set to "Chassis", right? Thanks, nbpf

Yes, thats  how mine is set.

bongoman posted:

M@rtin posted:

I switched over all cables in my system and removed all other electrical devices except my HiFi stuff from the socket close to the HiFi-system. So now the HiFi is on own fuse (13 A) in the switchboard. 

I have done more tests today with only moving the Hi-Line between the ND5XS2 and the nDAC (The BNC was removed when I played with the bare streamer. I do not have other devices connected to my Nait except the power supply. 

My impression from the day when I have done the comparison between ND5XS2 and nDAC is: 

The sound from the ND5 is clearer (but not much) and also a little bit nasal but not in a bad context. I also think that the timing is better with the bare ND5. With the ND5 connected to the nDAC I got some deeper bass and overall more damped /darker sound (but not in a bad context), someone could probably say more like a vinyl sound. My feeling when I’m listening to a couple of songs without changing back and forth and not focusing on specific details is that the bare ND5 feels more right. 

I have to say that the difference between the bare ND5XS2 and ND5XS2+ nDAC is quite small compared to the difference between a bare CD5XS and CD5XS + nDAC as I remember.

I found the same when comparing SQ of my NDX2 + nDAC + PSU compared to NDX2 + PSU into pre via DIN. The nDAC produced slightly more bass weight with a darker, damped sound, but I agree that the differences were very small - certainly compared to CD5XS and CD5XS + nDAC. I found with NDX2 the nDAC wasn’t really adding anything so I’ve now sold it on

One area in which the old nDAC stands out in comparison with the new Naim DACs is in the number and type of S/PDIF connections that it can accept.

Being able to connect a music server, a network player, a TV, a blu-ray player or a Chromecast Audio to the same DAC is a simple and straightforward way of getting consistent sound quality.

One advantage of the new Naim DACs over the old nDAC is probably the built-in support for Chromecast Audio, AirPlay and UpNP streaming.

On the other hand, support for Chromecast Audio, AirPlay and UPnP streaming adds complexity to the system and makes the new Naim DACs potentially more vulnerable to software issues. 

[@mention:1566878603942595], [@mention:1566878603876855]: Thanks!

feeling_zen posted:

TomSer posted:

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

one Naim employee I spoke to didn’t quite understand, with a smile on his face, why they put a transport output on the ND555.

Sure not for the competition... which leaves us with some interesting speculations...
A Statement level DAC ? 

Because of course people are dying to spend GBP20K on a Stream/PSU combo and then not use the built-in DAC and output stage.

I feel like it is unlikely Naim will return to the DAC market. I actually hope I am wrong there. However, if they do, there are non Naim dedicated streamer transports out there that already cost as much as a ND555 that have no internal DAC. While I might be inclined to upgrade a very old Naim streamer with a DAC to give it new life if functionality was not an issue, I'd never buy one from the outset just to use as a transport. To me, buying a streamer to use as a DAC and not use the streaming board makes far more sense than the other way around.

After all, plenty of other hifi manufacturers out there have streamers and you know what they generally call them? "Network enabled DACs".

Naim will have no choice but to develop new DACs, as they are using a discontinued DAC chip in the ND555, so when their stockpile runs out, they will need to have a replacement. If they can come up with a good replacement, there will be plenty of people wanting to get their hands on it to upgrade their existing streamers of whatever vintage, so I suspect a new separate DAC would sell quite well. 

I agree. They will go back to the Philips TDA 1541. And everybody will rave about it.

"Is this also true for the Nac 152 xs?"

Mateo

Hi Mateo-

You really have to experiment in your system to know if this sort of optimization is helpful in your case.    In practice, there are tons of apparently little things about system set up which influence your system's performance.    Probably the most important is how well, or poorly your speakers are interacting with your room acoustics, but there are many other areas to investigate.    A good dealer can really help here if you live near one, but you can do many of these things on your own if you put in the time and effort.

Good listening,

Bruce

bdnyc posted:

"Is this also true for the Nac 152 xs?"

Mateo

Hi Mateo-

You really have to experiment in your system to know if this sort of optimization is helpful in your case.    In practice, there are tons of apparently little things about system set up which influence your system's performance.    Probably the most important is how well, or poorly your speakers are interacting with your room acoustics, but there are many other areas to investigate.    A good dealer can really help here if you live near one, but you can do many of these things on your own if you put in the time and effort.

Good listening,

Bruce

 

I will try first if DIN input is better than RCA (have on order a Lavender RCA/DIN IC).

Then, if necessary, the various DIN input.

On my pre, the AUX 2 has 2 DIN input (powered and not-powered) and no RCA (unlike the other DIN inputs).

M.

Matteo, in my experience, with all else being equal, a DIN input is always preferred over the RCA phono equivalent. Even when using RCA at source. See the FAQ for more on this...

Massimo Bertola posted:

I agree. They will go back to the Philips TDA 1541. And everybody will rave about it.

 

Now that was a musical sounding DAC????

Richard Dane posted:

Matteo, in my experience, with all else being equal, a DIN input is always preferred over the RCA phono equivalent. Even when using RCA at source. See the FAQ for more on this...

Thanks Richard

I read all the FAQ

Just want to try it myself

M

There’s been some improvements in the clocks for the new streamers and also in the way the stream is connected to the Dac itself via LVDS

Maybe an NDAC2 is maybe possible with these new improvements?

nbpf posted:

Richard Dane posted:

You should only have one source with the signal ground connected to earth. Typically this is a NAim CD player. Other Naim sources have switchable signal grounds, in which case set to float.

Thus, assuming that only one source (a Naim DAC, for example) is connected to a Naim amplifier, that source should be set to "Chassis", right? Thanks, nbpf

Hi. I have a NDX connected to ndac into nac 282. Should I have NDX on ground and ndac to floating or the othe way around?

// Anders

Anders in småland posted:

Hi. I have a NDX connected to ndac into nac 282. Should I have NDX on ground and ndac to floating or the othe way around?

Hie Anders,  logic tells me that it should be NDX on chassis (ground) & nDAC floating.  The 'logic' part is because all CD Players have their signal grounded & that is not sellectable,  so the NDX assumes the same connection as a CDP.   

You can try listening to see if you prefer it the other way round.  

Mike-B posted:

Anders in småland posted:

Hi. I have a NDX connected to ndac into nac 282. Should I have NDX on ground and ndac to floating or the othe way around?

Hie Anders,  logic tells me that it should be NDX on chassis (ground) & nDAC floating.  The 'logic' part is because all CD Players have their signal grounded & that is not sellectable,  so the NDX assumes the same connection as a CDP.   

You can try listening to see if you prefer it the other way round.  

Hi thanks????. I will try and listen when I come home. Maybe I try to have both to chassis as I have a star earthed music line if that is of any benefit?.!

// Anders