The Hugo of streaming?

I briefly tried and then abandoned what I consider unnecessary nonsense, the whole poE thing. In my thinking and cable trials,  what the ethernet and/or coax cable for dc power supplies was telling me is the heavier the gauge the better. And instead of twisting a bunch of small strands together to make a heavier gauge cable, went straight to solid Neotech teflon coated 12AWG hook up wire soldered to Oyaide dc plugs. I have an lt3045 sandwiched in the middle, with Kemet caps on the input and none on the output, Mundorf Supreme solder for all connections. 

The sound has been nothing short of stellar - big, noiseless, neutral, and all of those things. I always felt the poE/ethernet cables brought one thing at the expense of another, and the solid OCC hook up wire sounds like there’s no “cable” at all (even better would be going with board to board connections of the LPS-1, lt3045 and microRendu I would think). Of course with solid one needs to plan the run accordingly, esp if using 12awg as there’s little to no room for twist, and no slack. Mine are also not twisted together, but separated by air (the best dielectric) and kept short as possible.  

During the hot weather I found that powering both the uR and IR from the Uptone LPS 1.2 was stressing the Paul Hynes SR4. I had a fan cooling it but this is not ideal, so I put the IR on the LPS1 which resulted in a slight SQ hit even though the IR galvanic isolation was in play again. I had an LT-3045 regulator board so I threw that in the mix (LPS1 to IR). The LPS1 is charged by the LT-3045 based DIY ps using the Mike Stammheim 3 amp PCB. Well well- WOW! There is a further improvement in crucial areas; frequency extension, timbral and soundscape resolution, clarity, lack of 'glare/hardness/edge'  and 'dynamic shading' all resulting in captivating music - cannot stop listening so I thought I might post it.

Back from a two week break in Paris, what a stupendous city.

When I got back I was less than happy with my system, I then remembered I had swapped out my copper coax festooned with Ferrites for an alternative ....swapping back and sanity was restored.

I decided to recheck the widget chain, as a few things had changed, to ensure I wasn't overly complicating things .....nope, Chain = uR [R-Core 8V 6A LPSU * >> 2 x (PoE >> 7V1 1A LT3045)] > PCUSB [Power thru ON] > Iso Regen [R-Core DC30W 2A LPSU >> 7V2 1A LT3045 >> PoE >>5V 0.5A LT3045] > IFI Idefender [No power] > IFI Mercury 3.0 > VBus2 > Adapter > USB B power injector [R-Core 8V 6A LPSU * >> DC3.1 PoE >> 5V 0.5A LT3045] > IFI iPurifier 2 > SingXer F1 is still the best.

However, I had been mightily impressed by the Cut Loose silver extruded Palladium covered cable that sells for stupid money, and then I saw a silver ribbon cable on the Bay, the Nimak Pulsar Mk2.

Bought for $120. Arrived a couple of days ago, and been rather impressed. The new cable is superb. From my memory of the CL I don't think it quiet plumbs the depths that it hit, but I think it has a sweeter top end. I haven't been able to stop listening to my system, and when I start an album I am obliged to finish it, just can't drag myself away.

When I bought the cable I had half a mind that I was in the process of being rooked .....wrong.

This cable is a bargain; and I now have a pile of unused ferrites.

M

The Nimak Pulsar Mk2.
I really cannot get over the positive benefit of this piece of wire. I am SO glad a friend bought over that Cut Loose cable, without that demo I would NEVER have taken a punt on this.

The cables effects include a huge reduction of high end hash, even from its reduced level, this means more information resolution and a big increase in the precision of spatial information.

Superbly addictive, and just FUN.

M

My system really is sounding excellent .....except, there is a definite distinction between my local files, hosted on 512GB USB sticks on a USB3.0 hub via a StarTech USB2G4LEXT2  (All powered with LPSU via CAT7 PoE), and those streamed from Qobuz - both via my Audiostore Prestige 3.

The local files have more instrumental weight and detail, and there is very little edge at all - I am inclined to place the blame on any that remains on the recordings.

The Qobuz files are excellent, but they remind me of the system pre the Nimak Pulsar Mk 2 - at a reduced edge level.

Two nights ago I just started playing from Q and felt things weren't quiet firing on all cylinders, switched back to local files and had an ahhhh moment.

A friend is thinking of selling his DCS Network Bridge, he is going to bring it over to compare with my fettled ultraRendu, should be interesting. He has just started a new jo so we have to find a suitable Saturday. I will report back in due course.

M

DCS Network Bridge vs ultraRendu + SingXer-F1

The ultraRendu was supported by the Dual CAT 3.1 plus R-Core LPSUs and a plethora of LT3045. In total probably about £1,500 worth of front end.

The DCS NB was plugged into the mains via on of the cables I use for the LPSUs, nothing fancy. £3,250 to you Guv'.

Before plugging in the NB I compared the Nimak Pulsar Mk2 (£100) to the Cut Loose Palladium (£1,500).

The Cut Loose was clearly better. Listening to 'If I Ever Lose My Faith In You' (Live In Berlin/2010) - Sting I was immediately struck by a bass progression I had never heard before. The cable allowed through greater information at both the top and bottom; confirmed when I replaced the Nimak. The Nimak is a great cable and superb VFM and covers most of the bases, but the Cut Loose is that bit better, £1,400 better?

Similarly, the NB was a bit better than my power fettled uR. A bit more resolution and a bit more dynamics, £2,000 better?

The combination of these two got my system singing even better than before, but it is doing very well without them. £5k is a lot of money! Almost pay for the box on the ND555.

Well, I have said farewell to my ultraRendu.

The uR is a great piece of kit with some good support. I think think the SOtM is a tad better tonally, but others will disagree. Both are bested by the dCS NB in my system.

I have moved on to a cheap Celeron NUC + Audiolinux.

This will not be a universal solution. You have to be willing to get to grips with some basic command line Linux, and have cleaned up your power and grounding. With those in place the NUC/AL is stupidly good. Better than the dCS? I think that it is.

Happy Xmas.

Mr Underhill posted:

Well, I have said farewell to my ultraRendu.

The uR is a great piece of kit with some good support. I think think the SOtM is a tad better tonally, but others will disagree. Both are bested by the dCS NB in my system.

I have moved on to a cheap Celeron NUC + Audiolinux.

This will not be a universal solution. You have to be willing to get to grips with some basic command line Linux, and have cleaned up your power and grounding. With those in place the NUC/AL is stupidly good. Better than the dCS? I think that it is.

Happy Xmas.

Interesting, that sounds very promising! What renderer and, if any, server are you running on AudioLinux? Thanks, nbpf

Hi nbpf,

Happy Xmas.

I am still running AL + LMS >> AL + Squeezelite.

The endpoint makes a much bigger difference.

The comparisons that have been done by others have shown a slight sound quality preference for LMS + AL over Roon + AL.

M

Now I’m confused, and will have to go back and re-read part f this thread. I was nicely being persuaded that an implementation of uR might be the long term rendering solutin, to be compared with Allo Digione Signature on one hand and Innuos Zenith on the other...

Innocent Bystander posted:

Now I’m confused, and will have to go back and re-read part f this thread. I was nicely being persuaded that an implementation of uR might be the long term rendering solutin, to be compared with Allo Digione Signature on one hand and Innuos Zenith on the other...

The uR with a decent linear power supply would indeed be an excellent long term rendering solution.

Hmack posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

Now I’m confused, and will have to go back and re-read part f this thread. I was nicely being persuaded that an implementation of uR might be the long term rendering solutin, to be compared with Allo Digione Signature on one hand and Innuos Zenith on the other...

The uR with a decent linear power supply would indeed be an excellent long term rendering solution.

That was the impression I had, until Mr Underhill changed direction, confusing me!

Indeed! At my stage of life, i don’t have the time or patience to tinker quite so much with any of my systems. My view is that there are likely to be marginal differences between the ultraRendu or the equivalent SOTM each with an appropriate linear power supply. They are both very good. The fact that Mr Underhill likes to tinker with his system much more than I would have the patience to do doesn’t make either of these options any less attractive.

Of course, you could also get better quality by swapping in a Tidal DAC in place of a Chord Dave, or something like a DCS network bridge in place of an ultraRendu. The options are endless, but the sound quality differences are likely to be subtle & end up costing lots of money. The ultraRendu with the latest sBooster power supply is excellent and excellent value for money. I’d be very happy to use it with a Chord Dave.

Hmack posted:

The fact that Mr Underhill likes to tinker with his system much more than I would have the patience to do doesn’t make either of these options any less attractive.

I agree.

To my ears the NUC + AL solution is the best I have heard for a fraction of the cost of the dCS / SOtM / Sonore .....but, you have to be prepared to get your hands dirty with a bit of command line Linux.

The purpose of my post above was NOT to distract the thread but to say farewell to it.

For those of you with the uR I MARGINALLY preferred the SOtM stack, at a FAR greater cost - and two of my friends preferred the uR.

Happy New Year.

M

Innocent Bystander posted:

Now I’m confused, and will have to go back and re-read part f this thread. I was nicely being persuaded that an implementation of uR might be the long term rendering solutin, to be compared with Allo Digione Signature on one hand and Innuos Zenith on the other...

Why confused? If I am not mistaken the first posts on NUC and AudioLinux in the meanwhile more than 500 pages long monster thread on CA date back to the end of October. Since then (and more than 100 pages of posts on the same thread and on related threds) many users have found that certain off-the-shelf NUC computer can perform as good as (or better than) dedicated hardware in conjunction with AudioLinux. While manufacturers of dedicated software + hardware solutions might have been initially not amused by the news, they will eventually also profit from a better understanding of the aspects of hardware and software that are crucial for sound quality. And for end users, anything that avoids the further proliferation of poorly supported, proprietary software is nothing bad. NUC and AudioLinux are also not going to make any Allo, Sonore, dCS, Naim, etc. solution sound worse! 

I am also running a Pentium 7th gen NUC/Audiolinux (full OS in RAM)/LMS/squeezelite. It certainly edges the uRendu in timbrel resolution. What I am not quite sure about is if it equals the uR in timing resolution. It seems to me that the uR stops me in the tracks for the emotional connection/impact, a bit more so than the NUC/AL does.  Note that the comparison is not quite on the level as the uR setup is JRiver/MPD and the NUC  is LMS/squeezelite. .

However I tend to agree with M. that the NUC/AL (in RAM), is astonishing , easily noticed on piano recordings !

Happy New Year!

Oh man, good for you guys! But I’m still sticking where I’m at (being the op of this thread): DAC V1 with Uptone UPSCB to microRendu 1.4 with an LPS-1 and custom ‘cable’ (12ga OCC solid, with Oyaide connectors and an LT3405 in the middle). NUC 7i5 with Roon ROCK down in the closet with linear power supply and a newer Cisco 2960L-16PS serving the whole house. The microRendu sends Roon to the UQ v1 in the office. Sounds great. Haven’t felt the need to monkey in months! 

charlesphoto posted:

Oh man, good for you guys! But I’m still sticking where I’m at (being the op of this thread): DAC V1 with Uptone UPSCB to microRendu 1.4 with an LPS-1 and custom ‘cable’ (12ga OCC solid, with Oyaide connectors and an LT3405 in the middle). NUC 7i5 with Roon ROCK down in the closet with linear power supply and a newer Cisco 2960L-16PS serving the whole house. The microRendu sends Roon to the UQ v1 in the office. Sounds great. Haven’t felt the need to monkey in months! 

The one change I would recommend is a firmware upgrade to version 2.5. This is available for around £20 in the form of a replacement SD card. This allowed me to do away with the need for bubbleUPnP on my microRendu & made a dramatic difference to the reliability of my microRendu setup. 

Sonore microRendu 2.5 + CIAudio VDC.7 MKII/Uptone USPCB A to B USB Adapter/DAC-V1 still doing the business for me,

Just sit back and enjoy the music. ????

Dave

Correction: Sonore microRendu version 2.7 not 2.5.

Dave

nbpf posted:

 

Why confused? If I am not mistaken the first posts on NUC and AudioLinux in the meanwhile more than 500 pages long monster thread on CA date back to the end of October. Since then (and more than 100 pages of posts on the same thread and on related threds) many users have found that certain off-the-shelf NUC computer can perform as good as (or better than) dedicated hardware in conjunction with AudioLinux. While manufacturers of dedicated software + hardware solutions might have been initially not amused by the news, they will eventually also profit from a better understanding of the aspects of hardware and software that are crucial for sound quality. And for end users, anything that avoids the further proliferation of poorly supported, proprietary software is nothing bad. NUC and AudioLinux are also not going to make any Allo, Sonore, dCS, Naim, etc. solution sound worse! 

Confused because of the seemingly sudden change of direction from ?R/uR, though maybe my loose following of the topic wasn’t close enough. As for the CA thread, it is not something of which I was aware.

Of course with new products appearing a change in preference potentially always can happen until or unless there is a device presents a true accurate bit-perfect digital stream uncontaminated by RF or other noise is presented to the DAC - and as that may be chasing something impossible there inevitably is scope for small differences in the imperfections and therefore different people will have different preferences, with the opportunity for a different device to sound better to any individual.

With excellent renderers the primary choice perhaps comes down more to cost and user-friendliness, the latter including everything from setting up to library handling, inevitably different things suiting different people. The difficulty there is that one can only tell by comparing personally, which is not always easy or even possible without purchasing.

Hmack posted:

Of course, you could also get better quality by swapping in a Tidal DAC in place of a Chord Dave, or something like a DCS network bridge in place of an ultraRendu. The options are endless, but the sound quality differences are likely to be subtle & end up costing lots of money. The ultraRendu with the latest sBooster power supply is excellent and excellent value for money. I’d be very happy to use it with a Chord Dave.

Only for someone interested in Tidal! In my case Dave is a fixed item, never to be replaced until it dies, which I hope will be many, many years - unless someone introduces something demonstrably better sounding for a small fraction of its cost. 

As for DCS Bridge, the question there is how it compares with other rendering solutions that include storage, like Innuos and Melco products at similar prices, vs cheaper but more DIY solutions built around uR or  Allo Digione Signature.etc.

Brilliant posted:

I am also running a Pentium 7th gen NUC/Audiolinux (full OS in RAM)/LMS/squeezelite. It certainly edges the uRendu in timbrel resolution. What I am not quite sure about is if it equals the uR in timing resolution. It seems to me that the uR stops me in the tracks for the emotional connection/impact, a bit more so than the NUC/AL does.  Note that the comparison is not quite on the level as the uR setup is JRiver/MPD and the NUC  is LMS/squeezelite. .

However I tend to agree with M. that the NUC/AL (in RAM), is astonishing , easily noticed on piano recordings !

Happy New Year!

Do you find that running from RAM is mandatory for a NUC/AL system to achieve this level of sound quality? Both NUC devices and AL use standard technologies and software, thus perhaps the crucial feature is in fact running the OS in RAM?

Innocent Bystander posted:

Hmack posted:

Of course, you could also get better quality by swapping in a Tidal DAC in place of a Chord Dave, or something like a DCS network bridge in place of an ultraRendu. The options are endless, but the sound quality differences are likely to be subtle & end up costing lots of money. The ultraRendu with the latest sBooster power supply is excellent and excellent value for money. I’d be very happy to use it with a Chord Dave.

...

As for DCS Bridge, the question there is how it compares with other rendering solutions that include storage, like Innuos and Melco products at similar prices, vs cheaper but more DIY solutions built around uR or  Allo Digione Signature.etc.

Good point! We have meanwhile a good variety of solutions but very little comparisons between them. Also, the focus of reviews and discussions is almost inevitably the sound quality. At this level sound quality differences tend to be small but the differences in the quality of software and support can be huge! 

My major concern against dCS (Sonore, Innuos, Melco, Naim, etc.) devices is that these companies typically offer no certification for any Linux distribution apart from the undocumented, proprietary one that is pre-installed on the devices. On the top of this comes the fact that these pre-installed distributions are sometimes based on old software and poorly supported: it can take ages to correct even the most obvious software bugs.

The hope is that, if AudioLinux gains more momentum, manufacturers will eventually start to offer their devices with AL certification. This would help making their products more comparable, more usable and, finally more appealing to end users.  

Until than, solutions based on NUC, Raspberry Pi and mac mini devices, perhaps complemented with interfaces like those made available by Allo, Mutec, Schiit, etc. are probably the most obvious choice for users who are not totally computer illiterate.

I would just like to put in a word for the support that Jesus from Sonore provides for the microRendu and ultraRendu products. He has resolved any problems I have had (mostly to do with MQA) very quickly indeed. The ultraRendu and microRendu (since the 2.5/2.7 firmware updates) are now extremely reliable. The occasional drops from the network that I used to experience just don’t occur any more.

I really don’t think you could go wrong with the ultraRendu with a decent linear power supply like the latest sBooster. If you did go for one & didn’t like it you could probably get most of your money back on Ebay. In my opinion, definitely a better option than a Raspberry Pi or Mac mini.