ND555 Impressions

Richieroo posted:

Bert how hot does the new player get ...... my nds gets really quite hot....which surprised me...

Honestly I don’t know, and I will not be able to check in the next days as I will not have super long listening sesssions like this weekend.

French Rooster posted:

 i wonder if it is not better to upgrade the nds with an outboard dac than selling the nds to buy an nd555?    nds with dave digital out must be also a terrific combo.    I don’t know yet what i will do in the future.

With 10 k i can also upgrade my speakers and some cables and power cords.   Anyway it will be a more difficult  decision for me.   Is it a good thing to have a 25k source like the nd555 with 10 k pre, 9 k amp and 7 k speakers ?    It seems a little bit unbalanced.  i don’t know.

FR, I've been using the NDS digital out into the Dave. It sounds very good and you can keep the Naim app. But I also use it direct from the Melco - USB - Dave so I can have access to Qobuz.

Hi Bert.........sorry another quick question ......... do you not leave your system powered up 24/7??? I have found leaving the equipment on all the time makes a profound difference (and I am not talking just elec bill!) ........ 

Regarding Chrissw19's post that is a good - point....... however, I think Naim are banking on most people trading in NDS .... against ND555 which brings you back to the Dave price point or there abouts............

glevethan posted:

Foot tapper posted:

Both CDS3 and CD555 are inherently musical, the CDS3 being very smooth, analogue (?) and polite, while the CD555 keeps the qualities of the CDS3 and adds back the fireworks, life & fun of the CDX2.

 

 

Wow - what a great analysis.  Exactly what I found when I had the CDX2, CDS3 and ultimately the CD555.

I have to admit that all of this talk about the new 555 is tempting however, unfortunately, Naim lost me many years ago.  Once the HDX came out (and its poor performance imho) it was too late.  When I abandoned CD I moved into the Linn camp (along with many other Naim CD owners).  The 552/500 always remain

The issue for me now becomes the fact that Linn allows us to keep up to date with their latest and greatest without incurring the financial hit.  I have upgraded from a KDS/1>KDS/2> KDS/3>KDS/4 all for a reasonable price.  Unfortunately with Naim each time one wanted to upgrade you would have to sell off the previous player - and incur a substantial financial hit.

With that said it definitely sounds like the ND555 is quite the beast!

G, agreed with you re the Linn system of allowing the kit upgrade. My NDS was purchased pre-loved so the hit is potentially not as bad as if I had bought it new. As tempting as the new ND555 seems to be, the price has reached a level where the financial risk (at least for me) is a bit too high without a manufacturer upgrade program. Imagine if the next one doesn't allow you to keep the same PSU ....

Chrissw19 ........ you have a point. But I would be willing to bet that they will not have an upgrade program ..... this baby will stay put as is for at least 5 years or until they run out of their supply of limited dac's. However, I do think they will be updating firmware - this could ultimately provide further sonic upgrades. As usual the residuals will be high......I don't think it is that risky ......... it will always sound flippin good!

glevethan posted:

"The issue for me now becomes the fact that Linn allows us to keep up to date with their latest and greatest without incurring the financial hit.  I have upgraded from a KDS/1>KDS/2> KDS/3>KDS/4 all for a reasonable price.  Unfortunately with Naim each time one wanted to upgrade you would have to sell off the previous player - and incur a substantial financial hit."

Probably not really relevant to most on this forum, but this might confuse some people. Although the latest version of the Linn Klimax is the 4th generation of the streamer, it is normally referred to as KDS/3 or KDS Katalyst. Strictly speaking there is no such thing as aKDS/4 yet.

The original Klimax was simply called the Klimax DS or Klimax DS/0, and the 2nd generation version was called the DS/1 by Linn. So, strictly speaking, the upgrade path to where we are today has been DS/0>DS/1>DS/2>DS/3. Most people who have taken this upgrade path appear to be of the opinion that DS/0 to DS/1 and DS/2 to DS/3 (Katalyst) appear to bring the most significant sound quality improvements.  

Richieroo posted:

Chrissw19 ........ you have a point. But I would be willing to bet that they will not have an upgrade program ..... this baby will stay put as is for at least 5 years or until they run out of their supply of limited dac's. However, I do think they will be updating firmware - this could ultimately provide further sonic upgrades. As usual the residuals will be high......I don't think it is that risky ......... it will always sound flippin good!

A word of caution wrt “residuals will be high”. Currently S/H Naim residuals are as low as I’ve ever seen them. Naim prices hold up better than most brands but the market is not like it was 5 -15 years ago. 

This is even more pronounced for digital sources. 

.sjb

Chrissw19 posted:

French Rooster posted:

 i wonder if it is not better to upgrade the nds with an outboard dac than selling the nds to buy an nd555?    nds with dave digital out must be also a terrific combo.    I don’t know yet what i will do in the future.

With 10 k i can also upgrade my speakers and some cables and power cords.   Anyway it will be a more difficult  decision for me.   Is it a good thing to have a 25k source like the nd555 with 10 k pre, 9 k amp and 7 k speakers ?    It seems a little bit unbalanced.  i don’t know.

FR, I've been using the NDS digital out into the Dave. It sounds very good and you can keep the Naim app. But I also use it direct from the Melco - USB - Dave so I can have access to Qobuz.

Thanks Chriss19, it is the first time i heard someone using dave and nds.  Does the dave improve really the nds sound or is it just different presentation ?   what the dave digital out to nds gives more in term of sound ?  if you can explain it a little bit.

Sloop John B posted:

Richieroo posted:

Chrissw19 ........ you have a point. But I would be willing to bet that they will not have an upgrade program ..... this baby will stay put as is for at least 5 years or until they run out of their supply of limited dac's. However, I do think they will be updating firmware - this could ultimately provide further sonic upgrades. As usual the residuals will be high......I don't think it is that risky ......... it will always sound flippin good!

A word of caution wrt “residuals will be high”. Currently S/H Naim residuals are as low as I’ve ever seen them. Naim prices hold up better than most brands but the market is not like it was 5 -15 years ago. 

This is even more pronounced for digital sources. 

.sjb

You're absolutely right SJB.  I recently offered my 6 year old NDS for sale (Buy-it-now on that  auction site), starting at what I thought was a very reasonable price for a 'mint' device, £4600 'or offer' but ending up selling for just below 4k  (before fees).   Perhaps I panicked !

I think the buyer got a real bargain, but with a dirth of NDS's on its way to the auction house as Naim begins shipping Bert's, Ian's and the rest of the crazy's who think £13k is a fair price to pay for a pretty good streamer,  I can see the residuals plummeting even further than our Brexit plans.

(PS - thought I should say.. "crazy's" also includes me, which is why I got rid my own NDS of course)

(PPS - "pretty good streamer"... OK, perhaps I understate somewhat)

rjstaines posted:

Sloop John B posted:

Richieroo posted:

Chrissw19 ........ you have a point. But I would be willing to bet that they will not have an upgrade program ..... this baby will stay put as is for at least 5 years or until they run out of their supply of limited dac's. However, I do think they will be updating firmware - this could ultimately provide further sonic upgrades. As usual the residuals will be high......I don't think it is that risky ......... it will always sound flippin good!

A word of caution wrt “residuals will be high”. Currently S/H Naim residuals are as low as I’ve ever seen them. Naim prices hold up better than most brands but the market is not like it was 5 -15 years ago. 

This is even more pronounced for digital sources. 

.sjb

You're absolutely right SJB.  I recently offered my 6 year old NDS for sale (Buy-it-now on that  auction site), starting at what I thought was a very reasonable price for a 'mint' device, £4600 'or offer' but ending up selling for just below 4k  (before fees).   Perhaps I panicked !

I think the buyer got a real bargain, but with a dirth of NDS's on its way to the auction house as Naim begins shipping Bert's, Ian's and the rest of the crazy's who think £13k is a fair price to pay for a pretty good streamer,  I can see the residuals plummeting even further than our Brexit plans.

(PS - thought I should say.. "crazy's" also includes me, which is why I got rid my own NDS of course)

(PPS - "pretty good streamer"... OK, perhaps I understate somewhat)

 

 

We are all probably a bit crazy on this site ........ but so what!! ....... take up smoking 20+ a day at 5-6 quid a packet if you really wana go nuts...........

4K for an NDS is almost a steal. I payed the same for my SU 3 years ago.

Richieroo posted:  

We are all probably a bit crazy on this site ........ but so what!! ....... take up smoking 20+ a day at 5-6 quid a packet if you really wana go nuts...........

Erm, must be a while since you were a smoker ........... the average UK price for 20 cigs is now over a tenner ........... harrumph.

surely good s/h naim prices held up with their bread/butter amps etc  ,  cant  see.  the streamer market being the same .Lots of good streamers/dacs on the market know

French Rooster posted:

Chrissw19 posted:

French Rooster posted:

 i wonder if it is not better to upgrade the nds with an outboard dac than selling the nds to buy an nd555?    nds with dave digital out must be also a terrific combo.    I don’t know yet what i will do in the future.

With 10 k i can also upgrade my speakers and some cables and power cords.   Anyway it will be a more difficult  decision for me.   Is it a good thing to have a 25k source like the nd555 with 10 k pre, 9 k amp and 7 k speakers ?    It seems a little bit unbalanced.  i don’t know.

FR, I've been using the NDS digital out into the Dave. It sounds very good and you can keep the Naim app. But I also use it direct from the Melco - USB - Dave so I can have access to Qobuz.

Thanks Chriss19, it is the first time i heard someone using dave and nds.  Does the dave improve really the nds sound or is it just different presentation ?   what the dave digital out to nds gives more in term of sound ?  if you can explain it a little bit.

Hi FR, well, I'm not very technical in term of HIFI sound differences, just to say that I prefer the Dave way of presenting the music but what works for me might not work for you. In term of rank in my system, I would say that the Melco direct to the Dave is better than via the NDS. However, that works for Qobuz and stored music but you need to use the NDS for internet radio or Spotify. Obviously, it is a bit extravagant to use the NDS as a bridge but I wont feel too guilty as I already have it and the ND555 has pushed its value down.

Wow - a wide range of views on here about NDS v CD players and also ND555! My NDS powered by a single 555 (non dr) sounds fab.

Significantly bettered by the ND555 in a dealer demo a few weeks ago, but that didn’t make the NDS sound broken by any means

Chrissw19 posted:

Hi FR, well, I'm not very technical in term of HIFI sound differences, just to say that I prefer the Dave way of presenting the music but what works for me might not work for you. In term of rank in my system, I would say that the Melco direct to the Dave is better than via the NDS. However, that works for Qobuz and stored music but you need to use the NDS for internet radio or Spotify. Obviously, it is a bit extravagant to use the NDS as a bridge but I wont feel too guilty as I already have it and the ND555 has pushed its value down.

so melco with dave is better for you vs nds/ melco.  Interesting.  What kind of music do you listen to?    

living in lancs yearning for yorks posted:

Wow - a wide range of views on here about NDS v CD players and also ND555! My NDS powered by a single 555 (non dr) sounds fab.

Significantly bettered by the ND555 in a dealer demo a few weeks ago, but that didn’t make the NDS sound broken by any means

I see this sentiment posted often... "if it sounds OK today, it'll sound OK tomorrow", but I disagree !  

Once you've heard something significantly better, like the ND555 vs NDS or the NAC552 vs 252, then surely you keep hearing what's missing from the player that, yesterday you thought was fine but today you realise has shortcomings... or to put it another way, today  "it's boke".

And this is the basis for the rule that many forum readers adhere to... "if you can't afford it, don't listen to it".  Unfortunately I broke this rule a few weeks ago and now have a loan about the size of an ND555 less the sale of my NDS... a strategy many will frown at, I know, but one that will give me hours of pleasure while others are busy saving up their loose change.

Incidentally, I should, perhaps, point out to our single readers that the same rule also applies to the opposite sex.   And, strangely enough, I have a mortgage about the size of  SWMBO's expectation of her lifestyle entitlement.

Anon.

rjstaines posted:

living in lancs yearning for yorks posted:

Wow - a wide range of views on here about NDS v CD players and also ND555! My NDS powered by a single 555 (non dr) sounds fab.

Significantly bettered by the ND555 in a dealer demo a few weeks ago, but that didn’t make the NDS sound broken by any means

I see this sentiment posted often... "if it sounds OK today, it'll sound OK tomorrow", but I disagree !  

Once you've heard something significantly better, like the ND555 vs NDS or the NAC552 vs 252, then surely you keep hearing what's missing from the player that, yesterday you thought was fine but today you realise has shortcomings... or to put it another way, today  "it's boke".

Well I can only report what I find - maybe I am fortunate in my outlook on life or my perceptions or something - my NDS sounds lovely, just not as lovely as the ND555.  And the stereo in my car is good enough to enjoy music when driving.  And my office system sounds good enough to enjoy while working though it is a very long way short of my main system

living in lancs yearning for yorks posted:

rjstaines posted:

living in lancs yearning for yorks posted:

Wow - a wide range of views on here about NDS v CD players and also ND555! My NDS powered by a single 555 (non dr) sounds fab.

Significantly bettered by the ND555 in a dealer demo a few weeks ago, but that didn’t make the NDS sound broken by any means

I see this sentiment posted often... "if it sounds OK today, it'll sound OK tomorrow", but I disagree !  

Once you've heard something significantly better, like the ND555 vs NDS or the NAC552 vs 252, then surely you keep hearing what's missing from the player that, yesterday you thought was fine but today you realise has shortcomings... or to put it another way, today  "it's boke".

Well I can only report what I find - maybe I am fortunate in my outlook on life or my perceptions or something - my NDS sounds lovely, just not as lovely as the ND555.  And the stereo in my car is good enough to enjoy music when driving.  And my office system sounds good enough to enjoy while working though it is a very long way short of my main system

Just out of curiosity, don't you find your Continental GT lacking just a bit of grunt? 

The Speed is a much better package...

for 10k more you have a ferrari 812 superfast.....or naim statement pre, statement amp, nd555/555dr and middle range magico speakers.

I would hardly use the Ferrari, but the Statement amps etc would be being played many, many hours per day in my house, others would choose differently.

Alba1320 posted:

rjstaines posted:

I recently offered my 6 year old NDS for sale (Buy-it-now on that  auction site), starting at what I thought was a very reasonable price for a 'mint' device, £4600 'or offer' but ending up selling for just below 4k  (before fees).   Perhaps I panicked !

I think the buyer got a real bargain, but with a dirth of NDS's on its way to the auction house as Naim begins shipping Bert's, Ian's and the rest of the crazy's who think £13k is a fair price to pay for a pretty good streamer,  I can see the residuals plummeting even further than our Brexit plans.

(PS - thought I should say.. "crazy's" also includes me, which is why I got rid my own NDS of course)

(PPS - "pretty good streamer"... OK, perhaps I understate somewhat)

 

Is the CD555 staying with you, or has ND555 put paid to it, too?

Ooh no, Alba, the CD555 is here to stay for a good while yet;  it's just been serviced.  This was my ultimate desired purchase for a long, long time, so having now bought one, albeit a few years old, I intend to keep it, hence the service.

Now, having said that, it may be that the ND555 eclipses the CD555 in a way the NDS never could, so... never say never 

I recall just as the CD3 lesser extent, more the CD555 and 500 came out, I first felt disillusioned after a rapid spending spree close to £50k to get to best top end system, bar I had SBLs and only active with 250s and not more 135s.

Upon reflection I think it was a case or ego, sour grapes, of getting to the best and then it was no more, it was as some called the cds2 broken (others did not).

Point of mentioning this is many NDS owners maybe now with similar thoughts and feelings.

Worse still for those much farther down the chain like me now, the outlay for a NDS55 and 555 pushing £27k, £33k with two 555DR, probably way out of reach or not a lifestyle priority.

For others though with the NDS and a 555DR and amps to match, it is surely a great upgrade, albeit a sour one in some cases accepting reviews like your NDS sounds broken.

Dangerous as like me it can disillusion some, but kudos to Naim to raise the bar so high again.

My last comment though is like the Uniti range brought a much upgraded sound, I felt at a recent demo (prelude to a NDX2/SN2 upgrade) the Nova was damn good and close enough to the 272/250 (I want to compare when the NDX2 is out).

I wonder how much better the NDX2 is vs the NDS, but more importantly how much better is the ND555 vs the NDX2 ????

Exciting times.

if the ndx2 is better vs the nds, we will be able to say that the nds is a bit broken and belonging to past technology.  But i don’t feel it will be better, perhaps approaching.

Nobody knows for now.