ATC SCM40 stumbles the SN2?

This thread seems to have drifted from the title, about ATC speakers, and become a somewhat testy exchange about Focal speakers. As a fan of Focal speakers I'm not objective, but what I think what we could agree on is that the whole issue is very subjective - both on how speakers sound and how they look.  I think we would also do well to accept that is someone else having a different view doesn't make them wrong. This is all a matter of personal taste.  Personally, I have found the well respected brands of PMC and top-end B&W not to my taste: the former I found accurate but a bit too relaxed, the latter I thought the bass too dry. But I wouldn't for one moment suggest that others are wrong or mis-guided if they like them.  

What I would say, even as a Focal fan, is that the styling is not subtle (they are French) and the beryllium tweeter can easily sound a bit harsh if the matching equipment and set-up in the listening room isn't right. But, hey, they please me in my system, and did so well before the merger occured so all this stuff about 'voicing' is irrelevant to me.

 

Hungryhalibut posted:

I didn’t say they are no good, simply that I haven’t liked them when I heard them. Perol didn’t like what he heard. I don’t like what I heard. Are we wrong? Why the need to defend Focal speakers so vehemently? It’s simply a matter of taste. 

Exactly

No quarter posted:

I agree Analog,it might come down to the type of music you are playing,my Sopra 1s really excel with Jazz and classical music.Rock and blues are quite good too,but I think my Dynaudio’s work a little better for those genres.I have both set up in the same room,same source,and the Focals get much more play time.I also wonder about room placement...British homes tend to have smaller rooms with fireplaces in most living rooms.Here in Canada,the rooms seem to be more spacious,my Sopras are 4 feet from the front wall,2.5 feet from the side walls.I also have extensive room treatments,which appear to be few and far between in Britain.The end result is quite stunning in MY ROOM,which has a lot more to do with the sound than people realize.It also appears that all these demos with Naim/Focal are using the massive Utopias,which look more at home in an auditorium.

The best speakers simply work, presenting music clearly, with as much detail and range and dynamics and accuracy of timing as fed by the power amp, regardless of genre...

The Sopras do ALL genres well,I just happen to be listening to a lot of Jazz and classical lately,which they are awesome with.Perhaps I worded it wrong,seems like everyone just want to jump all over Focal for some reason,I love mine,and have stopped thinking about upgrades.If something l like better comes along,I will demo them,I just don’t get all this hatred.

No quarter posted:

The Sopras do ALL genres well,I just happen to be listening to a lot of Jazz and classical lately,which they are awesome with.Perhaps I worded it wrong,seems like everyone just want to jump all over Focal for some reason,I love mine,and have stopped thinking about upgrades.If something l like better comes along,I will demo them,I just don’t get all this hatred.

And I didn’t mean to suggest they don’t, not having heard them, my reply merely responding to your comments - however it is surprising how often people do say that certain speakers are great for X type of music but not Y.

No quarter posted:

The Sopras do ALL genres well,I just happen to be listening to a lot of Jazz and classical lately,which they are awesome with.Perhaps I worded it wrong,seems like everyone just want to jump all over Focal for some reason,I love mine,and have stopped thinking about upgrades.If something l like better comes along,I will demo them,I just don’t get all this hatred.

Neither do I. ...

I recall Emre of this forum also changed his Sonus Faber Cremona for Sopra 2 or Sopra 3? 

 

Massimo Bertola posted:

My point is, that even when Naim was building loudspeakers (in my humble opinion, their strongest point along with amps), people not infrequently chose something else. So what? I was listening to the Nova yesterday, with Neat SX2s, and I realized how little I liked those diminutive floor standers: too much and too assertive bass, unnatural midrange, the sound of David wanting you to think he's Goliath.  

Well it's a good thing we all have different tastes then Max.

One of the best hi Fi moves I have ever made was getting rid of my Credo speakers and swapping them for a pair Neat motive SX2 speakers. I am actually enjoying my music again without the need to faff around and put up with the 'moody' off or on days of the Credos.

 

Perol posted:.

ATC otoh are really tempting, the stand mounts I've heard were great but, as discussed here, need hefty power.

Hi Perol, as a long time user of ATC passives and almost as long user of Naim, I can say that the earlier standmount ATCs such as the SCM12s and the rectangular boxed SCM11s with the non ATC tweeter did require a stiffer amp because of quite a demanding crossover response. 

However the newer curved case designs with the ATC tweeter and redesigned crossover are quite different propositions, and work with relatively modest amplification, even the NaitXS 2 can drive the SCM19s for example, with a slightly bouncy and soft presentation (which I think is the appeal of that amp)

I run my current SCM19s with a 250.2 and I think it’s a wonderful combination... a lovely full bodied and natural presentation with startling realism (where the recording permits) and tight and surprisingly extended bass (ie the stuff you feel rather than hear.. perhaps my room is helping here along with my 552 because the speaker is not designed to be efficient at those frequencies ). I have used a NAP200 before and that worked well too, albeit not as detailed or extended as the 250..

However what I would say is critical are the stands, after all this is the key ingredient that allows many of the benefits over floor standers. I had a lot of trial and error here with open frame and high mass stands... get it wrong and the speaker can sound slow and lifeless, smeared or too ‘zingy’ and artificial. In the end I opted for wooden and Torlyte open frame stands with the speakers placed directly on the stands with no extra coupling for the most natural and dynamic presentation in my environment.

 

analogmusic posted:
No quarter posted:

The Sopras do ALL genres well,I just happen to be listening to a lot of Jazz and classical lately,which they are awesome with.Perhaps I worded it wrong,seems like everyone just want to jump all over Focal for some reason,I love mine,and have stopped thinking about upgrades.If something l like better comes along,I will demo them,I just don’t get all this hatred.

Neither do I. ...

I recall Emre of this forum also changed his Sonus Faber Cremona for Sopra 2 or Sopra 3? 

 

So what do you expect all your citings and quotes changes for the non Fok'alls people ?

No quarter posted:

The Sopras do ALL genres well,I just happen to be listening to a lot of Jazz and classical lately,which they are awesome with.Perhaps I worded it wrong,seems like everyone just want to jump all over Focal for some reason,I love mine,and have stopped thinking about upgrades.If something l like better comes along,I will demo them,I just don’t get all this hatred.

Not liking the sound and looks of a speaker means not that I hate it, hate is something more substantially, perhaps you hate a person, maybe some food, TV hate crimes comes to mind

I just think fuk'alls do not sound good, looks ugly and are way overpriced, nothing to do with hate

Perol posted:
No quarter posted:

The Sopras do ALL genres well,I just happen to be listening to a lot of Jazz and classical lately,which they are awesome with.Perhaps I worded it wrong,seems like everyone just want to jump all over Focal for some reason,I love mine,and have stopped thinking about upgrades.If something l like better comes along,I will demo them,I just don’t get all this hatred.

Not liking the sound and looks of a speaker means not that I hate it, hate is something more substantially, perhaps you hate a person, maybe some food, TV hate crimes comes to mind

I just think fuk'alls do not sound good, looks ugly and are way overpriced, nothing to do with hate

I suppose you are entitled to your opinion,what Speakers do YOU use?...so I have some idea where YOU are coming from.Love your nickname for Focal,by the way.

No quarter posted:
Perol posted:
No quarter posted:

The Sopras do ALL genres well,I just happen to be listening to a lot of Jazz and classical lately,which they are awesome with.Perhaps I worded it wrong,seems like everyone just want to jump all over Focal for some reason,I love mine,and have stopped thinking about upgrades.If something l like better comes along,I will demo them,I just don’t get all this hatred.

Not liking the sound and looks of a speaker means not that I hate it, hate is something more substantially, perhaps you hate a person, maybe some food, TV hate crimes comes to mind

I just think fuk'alls do not sound good, looks ugly and are way overpriced, nothing to do with hate

I suppose you are entitled to your opinion,what Speakers do YOU use?...so I have some idea where YOU are coming from.Love your nickname for Focal,by the way.

Fair asking but it would make little sence and to someone not at all

it's funny how this ATC thread became a Focal Thread. It is really fascinating , because in France , Focal speakers will be rarely partnered
with a Naim amplification ( they are not sold by the same dealers). the Focal brand is regrouping very different speakers. I did not hear the new Kanta Range ,
but the hifi range used to start until recently with the Sopra range ( it works very well with 250-300 amps). The Aria range that somebody is mentionning in the previous posts as a good partner to naim amps,  is only found in "high end" home theatre setups .

Stringerbell posted:

it's funny how this ATC thread became a Focal Thread. It is really fascinating , because in France , Focal speakers will be rarely partnered
with a Naim amplification ( they are not sold by the same dealers). the Focal brand is regrouping very different speakers. I did not hear the new Kanta Range ,
but the hifi range used to start until recently with the Sopra range ( it works very well with 250-300 amps). The Aria range that somebody is mentionning in the previous posts as a good partner to naim amps,  is only found in "high end" home theatre setups .

As someone with the Uniti2 and Aria 926's do you mind if I quote your post to Naim and demand my money back under the trade descriptions act? I was sold the pair as a HiFi set up and on the understanding that Naim themselves had voiced the 926's using the Uniti2. Clearly they don't actually know what they are doing and I'm sure they will be pleased to be put right.

analogmusic posted:

Not referring to your system at all 

It  would be nice to understand the context of some posts to understand better.

with such a huge variation on the opinion on the same product it’s helpful

 

If you’re referring to speakers, nothing strange at all. They all sound different, imposing their own character, clearly all far from perfect, whatever that is (except possibly one...). Back in the mid 1970sI went on a speaker hunt with £300 to spend - around £2500-3000 in today’s money, so getting into the serious speaker category (and in those days there were few speakers, if any, more than double that). And I was shocked at how different they all sounded. I had a shortlist of 12 or 13 that I auditioned, and three quarters of them I rejected in just a couple of minutes, with the first track played - awful to my ears, yet all had reviewed well in the hifi press. One in particular gets occasional fond mention from people who still have them, Gale 401 - yet they didn’t survive the first track for me.

But what I settled on stood the test of time - I upgraded to their biggest brother some years later, my brother-in-law gratefully taking them and wondering what he ever saw in his IBLs, and then when I changed to my current PMCs - very much in the same character, just a bit better - a couple of years ago said b-i-l took my big IMFs and my original TLS50iis returned home, now my awestruck son’s, and actually I could live with them quite happily if I didn’t have the PMCs.

So for some people to love the focals and others hate them to me is just normal for speakers. Just as although I haven’t heard them, I suspect I’d hate Kans, but some people love them.

analogmusic posted:

Not referring to your system at all 

It  would be nice to understand the context of some posts to understand better.

with such a huge variation on the opinion on the same product it’s helpful

 

better understood now .....   Perhaps my response will be too simple, but i would say it is just a question of preferences, tastes, different ears sensibilities.   For instance Focal speakers :  it is just difficult to say that they are bad speakers.  Acclaimed all over the world audio community, but some like, some dislike.      The same for naim, some doesn’t like this kind of sound and prefer 8w audio note amp in avant -garde speakers....

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