Cat 7 keystone connector or rj45?

I'm not clear how I should be terminating cat 7 so would appreciate advice on whether I should be terninating with rg45 or keystone in my circumstance. Advice requested please. The config is effectively going to route back to a core level 2 switch (8 port is all that I need with one other 'end point 8 port switch needed but not performance critical and the rest all terminating off a run with the core.

I'm going through a sequence of building works on an old property. You do iin these phases get forced to react when either an 'unexpected opportunity' arises to do an activity at shorter notice than expected. Cut a long story short I bought some cat7 cabling quickly with finite research to achieve a percieved deadline. Since then with a bit more reasearch I gathered that for domestic circumstances cat6 was just as good. I therefore duly ordered a whole bunch of cat6 with a view of selling on the cat7. However unexpextantly my builder has installed my cat7 lock stock and barrel. So I am where I am I guess. So what I not clear upon is whether to just take the easy rg45 route (which I gather breaks spec)  or whether a keystone connector is worth progessing?

Original Post

You are right to try to have moved the Cat7 on. There or no vendors supporting that F class channel, It's gone, 6 & 6A is the recognised standard. Avoid keystones if you can you are better to use terminated wallplates, you can either get pig tail ones with female RJ45 sockets or you can term the Cat to the plate yourself.

 

 

Thanks very much. Please elaborate if you will on the terminating of end plate piece? I'm trying to work out whether (with purchase of crimping tools) it's a job an end user such as myself can take it on or whether I need to engage with a specialist company to do it. Not heard of the pig-tail thing before.

As an aside I need to purchase two eight port switches for the source location and one end location. The end location isn't speed sensitive but obviously the source location needs to be performant.

Regards

Jeff

I really would not bother with Cat7 .. arguably it's not currently supported for Ethernet use as it has not been ratified or supported by the TIA/EIA... and the RJ45 4 pair cable connector  can't, as far as I aware, meet the bandwidth requirements that Cat7 offers... so it all ends up being a sales marketing hype thing in my opinion. However as your builder has now installed the cable.. just go down the RJ45 route and gloss over the fact it's Cat 7 cable... The bandwidth otherwise offered is irrelevant for Ethernet use.

I would stick with shielded Cat5e or if you think you might want to use 10gbps at some point .. perhaps you are planning a data centre? then go Cat6A for any future upgrades.

I personally recommend, if not too late, trunking so you can lay aggregated shielded 5e cables if you need or fibre in the future. For real world applications aggregated cables will often be beneficial to using  a single very high bandwidth cable or fibre. Go fibre if distances are getting closer to 100m or longer

Thanks. It wasn't my intention but cat7 now installed and floors relaid so I think I need to just go with it and adopt rj45 connectors (I'll park the 710m of cat6 cables that my builders chose to ignore....). To be fair to them it's 'semi' trunked but you'd still need to take up the floor to make any changes. Is fitting wall connectors an end user task by getting a suitable tool or do I need to get a firm in is my question? 

In my experience terminating at a wall plate is the correct way and best way to finish off the install. The cable in the wall is presumably solid core, which is not very flexible and consequently if used out side of the wall will eventually fail, you really want proper patch leads out side of the wall.

And hey you can kid yourself to the sound differences and spend 4k on the last metre that way.

Its easy to punch down into a wall plate yourself and the tool is like a fiver (called a cron tool). In home I have used many rj45 modules over the years but the very best in my experience have been made by EXCEL, they are not expensive at around 3 quid each, but of much better quality then the cheap modules available all over the web.

All you want is a couple of them for each end and a twin module plate and you are golden. We are not allowed to provide links here sadly. Also make sure the wall internal or external back box is 40mm as once you have the wire and module in there it can get a bit cosy.

Brilliant - exactly the info I was after. Definetely up for doing it myself. I've found the EXCEL items but my 'googling' skills seems to be failing me re: CRON tool. Without breaking any forum rules would some kind person give me more of a hint please? What test tools do I need?

Any view on switches? My default assumption is an entry level cisco layer 2 switch but any advice welcomed.

Regards

Jeff

Jeff, quite a lot on the forum about switches. I use 8 port 2960 layer 2 switches and a 3560 PoE layer 3 switch. I use 8 port devices as they are fanless, if you go larger then you probably need to locate  in a comms cupboard or room because of the fan noise.

if you know how to configure the switches in configure terminal mode then I recommend enabling  the ports to streamer and NAS as 'fastport' (to speed up activation by disabling loop protection)  and set up an IGMP querier on (one of your) managed switches to help optimise Naim application discovery... works a treat 

Jeff - avoid TP Link, Netgear (low end stuff), it's all OEM out of a couple of factories - Proware likely. Use a Cisco 110 or better. Make sure is the SG NOT the SF as the G support Gigabit ethernet. 

I wouldn't crimp the cables from the NAS or Source, although crimping is a piece of p*** the copper can oxidise, thereforere use a booted patch cable in pre terminated lengths. Chord and Audio Quest make decent ones.

Best

LH

Lord_HIllier posted:

................. Use a Cisco 110 or better. Make sure is the SG NOT the SF as the G support Gigabit ethernet. 

I now use the SG110D,  it replaced a Netgear GS105.     I'm not claiming it sounds better, its effectively the same spec on paper,  but it does something different if my NAS LED's are to be believed, the disk access blinks very infrequently compared to the Netgear - I had a short discussion with Simon a while back on this. 

Mike-B posted:
Lord_HIllier posted:

................. Use a Cisco 110 or better. Make sure is the SG NOT the SF as the G support Gigabit ethernet. 

I now use the SG110D,  it replaced a Netgear GS105.     I'm not claiming it sounds better, its effectively the same spec on paper,  but it does something different if my NAS LED's are to be believed, the disk access blinks very infrequently compared to the Netgear - I had a short discussion with Simon a while back on this. 

Precisely - Advanced QoS.

Hmm QoS won't affect the number of blinks, just the relative ordering of the blinks within milliseconds on a switch assuming no blocking and data loss, but no DSCP or Differentiated Service bit markings are used on our streaming applucations. In discussion with Mike I concluded this was just a weird artefact of his NAS LED pulsing routine....

 

Crikey. I thought I was half keeping up with this lark but why do I need a layer 3 switch involved? That one has lost me big time. All I want is my UQU2 (aka NDS aspirational) to talk to my NAS - all on the same VLAN. I naively assumed I'd just need just a simple layer 2 switch?. I'm not a techie though.

Regards

Jeff

Jellyheadjeff posted:

Crikey. I thought I was half keeping up with this lark but why do I need a layer 3 switch involved? That one has lost me big time. All I want is my UQU2 (aka NDS aspirational) to talk to my NAS - all on the same VLAN. I naively assumed I'd just need just a simple layer 2 switch?. I'm not a techie though.

Regards

Jeff

You don't for what you are trying to achieve. Maybe S-I-S has a network need higher than most, I have 3 NAS boxes, an Apple dedicated topology and Sky Q, the 110 will be fine.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Hmm QoS won't affect the number of blinks, just the relative ordering of the blinks within milliseconds on a switch assuming no blocking and data loss, but no DSCP or Differentiated Service bit markings are used on our streaming applucations. In discussion with Mike I concluded this was just a weird artefact of his NAS LED pulsing routine....

 

Not convinced with that - the data packet rate and the buffering of the source is more controlled by the sound of Mike's comment. The file type, size, and instruction software is all in the mix. I would say that the Cisco Switch is handling the data packets better.

Lord_HIllier posted:

Not convinced with that - the data packet rate and the buffering of the source is more controlled by the sound of Mike's comment. The file type, size, and instruction software is all in the mix. I would say that the Cisco Switch is handling the data packets better.

I said the Netgear & Cisco were effectively the same spec on paper.   The only obvious difference is the memory;  the Netgear has "128 KB on-chip packet buffering"   whereas the Cisco has "128MB Flash Memory" & "128MB RAM",  it looks like these are listed separately but as always in these spec's, nothing is 100% clear,  but even if it is a two function 128MB,  its still 128MB vs 128KB.    How/If that relates to its performance and/or LED blink indications?  ......... over to you guys  

Almost certainly this has nought to do with QoS as DSCP is not used in any home streaming eenvironment I have seen, and most consumer layer 2 switches will not be looking at the DS bits of the Ethernet packet even if they were being used.

i think it more likely down to how the TCP timing is affected, and I know the TCP behaviours on (current) Naim streamers are very sensitive to flow latency and timing, and drives quite different data flow as I have witnessed using tools such as WireShark... so what could cause this timing difference? well to my mind the most likely item will be whether the switch uses cut-through or store and forward type frame buffering. A faster low latency cut through buffering could  cause the Naim streamer to signal to the data be sent effectively in bursts, where as a slower data flow such as from a store and forward would have more dynamic segment window changes showing a more consistent data activity rate.. now depending on the LED driver routine, the faster bursts rate might blink the LED less often than the more consistent segment window flow.

BTW both buffering modes have pros and cons, and a commercial managed switche can be configured to use either depending on application.

Ok might get banned but hey ho

Here is the excel modules 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/10-RJ...eywords=excel+module

My bad its KRONE

https://www.amazon.co.uk/kenab...=punch+down+ethernet

Face plate for the excel modules:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Singl...eywords=module+plate

Then you just want your average run 'o' the mill patch leads at each end.

Punching down is very easy, and on the excel modules there is generous room. Don't pull to much outer sheath, the trick here is to unwind as little of material as possible, they are twisted for a reason so at the end you don't want tonnes untwisted. 

Jellyheadjeff posted:

Crikey. I thought I was half keeping up with this lark but why do I need a layer 3 switch involved? That one has lost me big time. All I want is my UQU2 (aka NDS aspirational) to talk to my NAS - all on the same VLAN. I naively assumed I'd just need just a simple layer 2 switch?. I'm not a techie though.

Regards

Jeff

You don't need a layer three switch at all, especially if you have a broadband isp router... it's just that I do.... A single ideally managed switch in my opinion in the heart of your home network is probably all you need.. and if you don't want a managed switch, as you don't need one, it just gives you more control and flexibility if you ate that way inclined, you can just a cheap regular consumer one... unless you are doing some specific that will almost certainly be fine.

You want something like this

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0...ords=ethernet+tester

There are two standards for cable termination, really it does not matter which you go for 'A' or 'B' as long as you do them all the same. 

Assuming your are in the UK go for standard B. The excels B any how.

Once you have made the connections you then need two standard ethernet leads. At one end hook up a lead and one end of the tester and the same at the other, and turn it on, what you want to see is it light up in order 1 through 8. If it does great, if one does not light up you need to try again. If they light up but not in order, then you need to try again.

Jellyheadjeff posted:

Brilliant - exactly the info I was after. Definetely up for doing it myself. I've found the EXCEL items but my 'googling' skills seems to be failing me re: CRON tool. Without breaking any forum rules would some kind person give me more of a hint please? What test tools do I need?

Any view on switches? My default assumption is an entry level cisco layer 2 switch but any advice welcomed.

Regards

Jeff

Try searching for Krone Tool or punchdown tool. Cron is a unix system process

Obsydian posted:

Added a Supra Cat8 to my Mu-so a very effective neutral upgrade (5m for £60)

I used to have Supra Cat7 (Cat8 predecessor) installed on all my network branches.  Its a great cable & I'm not saying otherwise, but I found mine broke its RJ45 plugs locking clips,  not on all,  but 2 breaks out of 6 & 1 that was weak & obviously not much life left was not an acceptable failure %%%.  All the breaks were at the ends into my Netgear switch & it appeared to me the interface between the Netgear metal port shrouds & the Supra plug locking clips was the problem.  My advice is to make sure you minimise any movement with RJ45 plugs in the ports.  

Interesting quote from Wikipedia...

"Category 8 is designed only for data centers where distances between switches and servers is short. It is not intended for general office cabling."

I believe it's also not yet ISO ratified, and one proposal doesn't even use 8P8C (RJ45) connectors (Cat 7 doesn't either!).

So just to double check before I embark on terminating my recent cat-7 install. I'm getting the jist that in hindsight cat-7 offers in a domestic environment no benefits over cat-6 so recommended option to domestic equipment is to terminate with rj45 rather than gg45 or equivalent even though rj45 breaks spec. Is that the general concensus or not as I'd like to start getting it terminated before too long?

Regards

Jeff

Cat8 is 40Gb/s & up to 2000MHz bandwidth.    Naim (all makes) streamers are 100Base-T  & work at aprx 31Mb/s & 100MHz.                      Supra will have plenty of headroom if nothing else.    I also suspect the RJ45 plugs will render the cable as a patch cord assembly non compliant with Cat8

Have hit a problem today folks so need some advice again please.

Since my last post all cabling is low laid ( a mixture now of cat 6 and 7) and today had an electrician round who does network cabling too (i chickened out of terminating it myself and having seen the amount of drilling involved to fit the mounting boxes into the walls today I think that's a wise decision given my limited diy skills). He had no issues with the cat 6 but could not manage to fit any end points to the cat 7 - the small cables didn't seem to go into the rj45 socket without overlapping. He tried two different makes of rj45 plugs but no joy. This is where I get very out of my depth re: differences between 8p8c and rj45 (which I thought 8p8c had by and large replaced rj45). Googling amazon show a terminator by a brand called odedo which claims to be cat7 suitable. Wasn't too sure whether the rj45 crimp tool the sparkie had would be suitable or is a new one needed? Or do I need gg45 keystones with adaptor leads to convert to rj45? All responses seem to indicate not.

The sparkie has left it with me to order suitable termination...

Regards

Jeff

 

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