CDX2 to be discontinued?

Richard Dane posted:

Down at the factory today and when asked about why the CDX2 has been discontinued, Trevor said it was mostly down to availability of mechanisms. Mech yields were getting very poor - down to one in four - and of the good ones there are enough spare mechs at Naim for the number of machines made, so a decision was made to cease production to ensure that all remaining stocks of spare mechs would be there to support existing CDX2 owners.

Thanks for the information, that answers the question I was going to ask: should I get a spare mechanism, just in case...

Yes it was interesting to hear that the CDX2 is stopping because of quality mech availability used in the CDX2 not because lack of demand... in fact on the construction  floor, where most things are made to order I saw one brand new freshly built CDX2 and two freshly constructed  CD5 SI in soak test amongst other freshly built products so demand is clearly still there... get the CDX2 whilst you can..... however we understood if a secure supplies of quality mechs was reestablished, then production of the CDX2 could start up again.... 

Richard Dane posted:

Down at the factory today and when asked about why the CDX2 has been discontinued, Trevor said it was mostly down to availability of mechanisms. Mech yields were getting very poor - down to one in four - and of the good ones there are enough spare mechs at Naim for the number of machines made, so a decision was made to cease production to ensure that all remaining stocks of spare mechs would be there to support existing CDX2 owners.

Committment to existing customers. 'Like'.

(And I don't even own a CDX2).

Richard Dane posted:

a decision was made to cease production to ensure that all remaining stocks of spare mechs would be there to support existing CDX2 owners.

A typically Naim attitude. Or at least, a very good bit of PR. Preferable to Linn's "CD is dead" publicity stunt when they stopped building theirs.

Loved my CDX2 but that was a long time ago. I think we are approaching the 10th anniversary of a CD being used for playback in this house, although they are still at common method of obtaining music. I was ripping one only last night...

I doubt it means those in stock. More likely to mean those supplied or those offered for Naim to purchase. I don't know what the buying model is for mechanisms. For many components, Naim buy a batch, keep the ones that pass their required testing standards, and sell the rest on. 

The model is you buy them by the hundred or thousand.  They arrive and sit in their polystyrene packaging for ages - sometimes many years.  Meanwhile Naim remove some mechs for upcoming builds and put them through various tests before they are deemed acceptable and ready to be used on production.  By yield, I mean the number that make it through testing and are deemed by Naim to be acceptable.  Some are even DOA.  There's no meaningful warranty, particularly after so long, and any failures are put in quarantine and then disposed of.

Max_B posted:
Perol posted:
Japtimscarlet posted:

Get one while you can then!!

Far too expensive

I would choose a second-hand Rega Isis/Isis Valve anyday of the week

It lacks one thing only and that is a DIN connection on the rear panel

 

Well, a 2nd hand rega Isis is still much costlier that a 2nd hand CDX2, which you can still buy for €1300/1500. But I admit that on a couple of occasions I thought that a simple rega Apollo was musically more natural and listenable than a CDX2.

If the matching rega Brio3 hadn't been such a modest performer (I can accept a modicum of mish mash, but possibly CD and amp of the same brand, please) I might have ended up with that unassuming, lovely pair. But the Brio3 sounded ok only with Harbeth M30.1s, and there was a 10/1 difference of cost....

My position was meant Isis against buying new CDX2.2 - not s/h

I have seen used Isis at the €4-5K mark, perhaps lower

Believe this is a bit lower than new CDX2.2 which seem to loose substantial value once beeing sold, I would snap up a cared €1300 player if possible.

S/h CDS3 headunits comes up quite often, but it will be a two-box solution and no digital out.

Re-thinking above there are other options out there if going Chord or nDAC with a good cd-transport

 

 

 

 

David Hendon posted:
AlanJ posted:

So its reasonable to assume that of the Mechs now in stock, the yield may deteriorate still further over time ?

No the ones in stock are all tested as good!

best

David

That may well be true, but my interpretation of Richards last post was that mechs are purchased in relatively large batches, and are only tested when they get pulled for use in production. They may sit around unused for some time (many years) before that happens, and any that dont make it are disposed of (there being no meaningful warranty after so long).

So I guess my question really is have Naim now tested all the in stock mechs  in their possession and disposed of all unacceptable ones, or is the number of good mechs just an assessment based stock and yield. And also, assuming good mechs may not be used for years is there an expected rate of loss thru attrition ?

Alan, anything can happen to a mech while it's in store.  I believe that Naim go through them periodically to test and weed out the duffers, however, there are no guarantees that the same mech will test fine again when pulled out for production. Naim have to work on probability and likelihood of yields.

But as Richard already reported, Trevor said yesterday that the reason they were stopping production of CDX2s was to make sure they could keep to their declared intention of supporting existing CDX2s through being able to service them when needed.

So we have to trust that in deciding how many mechs they need to keep for that purpose, Naim has fully taken into account the experienced yield of new stock. As a CDX2 owner myself, I'm really happy that we have nothing to worry about.

best

David

AlanJ posted:

Hope Richard is correct and that a Mech will be available for my 2yr old CDX2, should it ever need it.

Alan, all Naim can do is their best, but with mechs there are never any guarantees, and it's impossible to make promises.  Hopefully this action will ensure that Naim are able to supply replacement mechs for units that need them for a good few years hence, or maybe even longer.  My experience is that Naim do all they can to support old products for as long as they can, within reason.

MDS posted:
Max_B posted:
rsch posted:

One day it would be very disappointing for me to rely with another cd manufacturer (albeit there are quite excellent solutions on the market ) in the contest of a full Naim system.

Roberto,

the solution is letting the idea of a full Naim system go. I know that I am the least qualified person on Earth to do such a statement, but truth is, there is not only Naim. My current system is not a full Naim one, and I confess that if another of my mad moments should come, I'd keep the S-400s for sure, while I know that I could find other satisfying sources and amps.

Don't have such a catastrophic perspective on the future. Everything is replaceable, safe for lifetime.

A presto,

Max  

Heresy! Burn the witch. 

To be precise, of course heresy is not necessarily witchcraft.....

Dr_J posted:
MDS posted:
Max_B posted:
rsch posted:

One day it would be very disappointing for me to rely with another cd manufacturer (albeit there are quite excellent solutions on the market ) in the contest of a full Naim system.

Roberto,

the solution is letting the idea of a full Naim system go. I know that I am the least qualified person on Earth to do such a statement, but truth is, there is not only Naim. My current system is not a full Naim one, and I confess that if another of my mad moments should come, I'd keep the S-400s for sure, while I know that I could find other satisfying sources and amps.

Don't have such a catastrophic perspective on the future. Everything is replaceable, safe for lifetime.

A presto,

Max  

Heresy! Burn the witch. 

To be precise, of course heresy is not necessarily witchcraft.....

Right. And matches are not only small wooden things to light a fire, but also proper combinations of gear. So, MDS, bring your own matches when you come to burn me for my mix of brands.

;-)

M

And, full disclosure, I bought my CDX2 in January 18, so I am likely to remain delighted until my own EOL is announced, hopefully not having to call on Naim’s stock of spare mechs. 

Top marks to Trevor for Naim’s  sustainability programme!

KR, J

David Hendon posted:

But it also doesn't have that lovely Naim swing open door and that moment of anticipation as you clamp the disc with the puck and close the door again with a gentle thunk noise....

(which is a large part of why I bought mine...)

Gosh David, that was one of the reasons I sold mine, the swing-open door - I couldn't get used to it after years and years of trays sliding in and out.

The other reason I sold it was that I came accross a CD555 at a reasonable price  

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Well I bought my CDX2 from new around 2004 and it’s still going strong and sounding just as wonderful... I probably need to think about getting the caps serviced next year.

Simon, I didn't realise CD players needed caps servicing.  Is this similar to getting the amps serviced?  How frequently should this be done? I bought my CDX2 new in 2008 and it still sounds fantastic.

Thanks.

rjstaines posted:
David Hendon posted:

But it also doesn't have that lovely Naim swing open door and that moment of anticipation as you clamp the disc with the puck and close the door again with a gentle thunk noise....

(which is a large part of why I bought mine...)

Gosh David, that was one of the reasons I sold mine, the swing-open door - I couldn't get used to it after years and years of trays sliding in and out.

The other reason I sold it was that I came accross a CD555 at a reasonable price  

Well I might be persuaded to give up the drawer if a CD555 came asking me to let it settle here with me, but in the meantime I will enjoy my CDX2 for the reasons I gave!

best

David

If Naim fails to find good transports won't other manufacturers face the same problem? So, if there are no suitable transports any more, is CD replay coming to a dead stop, in the entire industry?

Judging from hifi shows, many manufacturers still seem to rely strongly on CD replay...

I was at the factory too last week.  Trevor did say that they would have no issue sourcing a transport if they wanted to made a new, different player but the problem is sourcing transports to work in the existing player which of course they want to be able to continue to service.  The transports that can be used that they have tried didn't sound good enough, 'shocking' was the word he used if I recall correctly!

I suspect that there is not the appetite to develop a new player, given the cost to bring to market.

The CDX2 was introduced in 2002 which helps explain the transport dearth. Other manufacturers use currently available transports. Esoteric, for example, use transports in production by their parent company TEAC.

Note that Naim CDPs above the CD5i/si still provide HDCD replay; a feature I relish. The last manufacturer that I know of to offer a new model HDCD-capable CDP was Carey and they ceased manufacturing those about three years ago. Not that HDCD replay has anything to do with the transport, just putting into perspective the age of technology of the CDX2.

Modern high-end CDPs are all about upscaling options that offer a variety of digital outputs as well as inputs to what could be considered a high quality dedicated DAC. Naim never chose to go that route, sticking instead to the role of a traditional CDP - the lone upgrade being S/PDIF output.

And it’s questionable whether the SPDIF is any sort of ‘upgrade’ on the CDX2... to me it’s the opposite. The CDX2 PCM1704K, i2v converter and  analogue filter implementation make it the magical device it is. The CDX2 is still a very prominent source of choice for some recordings... it’s ultimate lack of refinement and composure makes it really enjoyable and fun to listen to on many rock CDs, and even some classic CDs I’m discovering (since I got my 552). Thank goodness for diversity of sources... and therefore inputs on our NACs

Chunky posted:
Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Well I bought my CDX2 from new around 2004 and it’s still going strong and sounding just as wonderful... I probably need to think about getting the caps serviced next year.

Simon, I didn't realise CD players needed caps servicing.  Is this similar to getting the amps serviced?  How frequently should this be done? I bought my CDX2 new in 2008 and it still sounds fantastic.

Thanks.

Hi, yes, I was thinking of the powersupply, and if you power the CDX2 from its internal supply then effectually the reservoir caps will need to be replaced as they degrade relatively quickly and 15 years is usually suggested as a possible service point. I don’t know to what extent  the smaller  signal caps degrade... these might last for a lot longer.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:
Chunky posted:
Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Well I bought my CDX2 from new around 2004 and it’s still going strong and sounding just as wonderful... I probably need to think about getting the caps serviced next year.

Simon, I didn't realise CD players needed caps servicing.  Is this similar to getting the amps serviced?  How frequently should this be done? I bought my CDX2 new in 2008 and it still sounds fantastic.

Thanks.

Hi, yes, I was thinking of the powersupply, and if you power the CDX2 from its internal supply then effectually the reservoir caps will need to be replaced as they degrade relatively quickly and 15 years is usually suggested as a possible service point. I don’t know to what extent  the smaller  signal caps degrade... these might last for a lot longer.

Thanks for the clarification Simon.

Clay Bingham posted:

Looking back, CD as a format was doomed from the start. Among the reasons:

1. It was compact in size and took up little room. Hard to impress folks with that. No special stands needed, no special forging, milling, etc. though some tried this angle.

2. It was fuss free and easy to use. No VTA, compliance, capacitance, loading, tracking force, alignment, and other issues to fixat on and fuss about. 

3. CD players were not typically sold as component parts as were, turntables, arms, arm stands, supplental arm weights, phono cables, and cartridges. As a result they were very boring, leaving the audio obsessed with almost nothing to worry about except the music.

As a result of its ease of use, quality, and durability, long term industry profitability was compromised. 

The answer? Return to vinyl. What opportunities! More and more turntables, arms, cartridges, isolation platforms, mm, mc, phono stages, alignment guages, direct drive, belt drive, rim drive, remastered, digitally remastered, european cut, american cut, virgin vinyl, non- virgin vinyl. Oh gosh, the good old days were back. Finally, we could stop talking about the music and start talking about what we really loved all along.......THE EQUIPMENT! WoooooHoooo. 

For our millenial children and all those unfamiliar with actual records  we now have an opportunity to be equally obsessive with computer audio. Downloading, resolution rates, servers, network storge, network switches, DSP, network players, DACs, toslink, rca, USB, USB interfaces, Tidal, Spotify, MQA. Ah, life is again good. The turntable has been reinvented as computer music. And again, so much to discuss. 

Yes CD, thanks for the memories. 

Lmao. Best post I've read in ages. Completely agree!!

Am thinking of selling my EMM Labs XDS1 player & getting a CDX2.  Currently I have the ability to play SACDs, but I really don't play them all that often, and I think I'd like to try something different.  It would be nice to listen to an occasional disc instead of ripping everything.

I have actually just started buying CD's again recently for ripping purposes and they are excellent value.  In my set up I can tell no real difference between a £3 16 bit CD Rip or a £15 High Res file and with CD's I have a hard copy to rip again should anything go wrong.

As for CDP's I never really took to them and never invested enough to find out what they are capable of so if a very good one came along at a decent price would I buy one?  My Mrs would be pleased if I did she hates streaming.

Bob the Builder posted:

My Mrs would be pleased if I did she hates streaming.

As a strict physical media user, I'd be interested to hear details as to what she hates about streaming. Sound? Functionality? Complexity? The value in buying used CDs versus hi-res downloads is obvious.

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Don Atkinson
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