Children's Corner

Massimo Bertola posted:

My Tivoli One radio fires bass downward through a port at least 1' diameter on the bottom, separated by just a few mm. from the shelf, thanks to 4 rubber half-spherical feet. It definitely need damping, so I'll consider this.

M.

GFFJ found that a stack of books on top of the T1 did wonders, particularly when it included a really thick one from Churchill.

Glad this thread has got back on track as I thought the OP’s original idea for it to be a ‘tip sharing’ thread was a really good one. Small one from me for anyone with a Naim CD player that uses a puck with the little rubber hoops (most of them I think?) . If you ever experience that issue of the disc slipping and spinning uncontrollably you’ll know that it’s caused by those rubber hoops becoming too compressed over time and their shape becoming too flat. They need time out of the player to get their correct shape back. Probably more obvious to some owners than it was for me at first, I finally stumbled on the brainwave solution of buying a second puck and substituting puck #2 in as soon as I heard the first sign of a spinning disc, leaving puck #1 on a shelf, face up to recover it’s shape. When puck #2 eventually suffers the same issue, put the now revived puck #1 back in. I’m sure most owners will already be doing this, but perhaps worth a flag just in case. Spare pucks can be bought from your dealer or online from TomTom for e.g.  Kevin

Massimo Bertola posted:

My Tivoli One radio fires bass downward through a port at least 1' diameter on the bottom, separated by just a few mm. from the shelf, thanks to 4 rubber half-spherical feet. It definitely need damping, so I'll consider this.

M.

Massimo, a really good way to control the bass on the Model One is to use a roll of lint dressing. Cut a piece off the roll so it’s about 3cm long and then roll it so that it is a good fit. You can make it tighter for greater bass control. 

The effect of partially blocking a reflex port like this is more complex than one might think.

As you are slowing the movement of the air moving into (and out of) a Helmholtz resonator, you are affecting the effective mass of the air in the reflex port and therefore affecting the tuning of the port's phase relationships (and hence it's frequency characteristics) as well as the amplitude.  This affects the interaction of the port output with the forward output of the cone.

To have a more selective effect on amplitude (with less effect on phase and frequency), you should use a thin perforated disk rather than a long diffuse plug, or use a much longer but narrower tube.

The Tivoli One is hardly a pukka reflex cabinet,  the little port just adds a bit of oomph & I suspect control facia stuff is a bit leaky so not much helmholtz'ing is gong on.    The problem with mine is its on a stone worktop & its back onto a tiled wall & my problem is a double boundary effect ( I suspect I'm not the only one )  I jerry rigged a shelf to get it 30cm off the worktop & although that fixed it the final vote went to a significant other & she said its rather than spoil 'her' kitchen,  its was OK in its original position on the worktop.    I've experimented with port damping,  various densities of BAF wadding plugs & also a complete block with a cork plug,  nothing really fixes the small bass hump,  it is what it is with it,  but its not good with it completely blocked.

Well, it was what Naim’s Jason Gould suggested when he was in my house once, so it’s good enough for me, and it works really well, regardless of what theory might say. Sometimes, one can be over technical. Stuffing the hole with bandage - what could be simpler? If it has the desired effect that’s all that matters. 

yeti42 posted:

The rubber rings shouldn't touch anything if there's no disk present.

I have a couple of CDs that are thinner than they should be and even freshly rotated (with a pin inserted through the loop to grip against) rubbers won't touch them.

Yeah, I had a couple of those too. I found most would eventually play OK after repeated attempts (especially if I switched pucks )  but refuse consistently other times. Not too much you can do with those discs AFAIK. As you say, such discs are usually too thin around the centre hole. 

hungryhalibut posted:
Massimo Bertola posted:

My Tivoli One radio fires bass downward through a port at least 1' diameter on the bottom, separated by just a few mm. from the shelf, thanks to 4 rubber half-spherical feet. It definitely need damping, so I'll consider this.

M.

Massimo, a really good way to control the bass on the Model One is to use a roll of lint dressing. Cut a piece off the roll so it’s about 3cm long and then roll it so that it is a good fit. You can make it tighter for greater bass control. 

Thanks, I wanted to be sure what lint was, and also because there are many types, to understand clearly which one from the pic. I am now using a rolled piece of a stuff called something 35, it's what they use for front grilles in some loudspeakers and has 35 air bubbles per cubic inch (or cm.). Does the type you use have a thick or a loose texture? Ciao M.

It's often mentioned that the enjoyment of listening is intrinsically linked to health. Good health = good listening.

In this age of new fad diet meltdowns, what's best to bring about an all round winner ??

Almond nuts.

Your Almond nuts must be activated.  To bring your listening health to its best.   To do this just soak some almonds in water at room temp for a couple of days until it starts to bubble. This is great for introducing fermented flora into the digestive system when eaten. No need to then dry and reheat, just eat with something nice.

 

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/001/139/802/964.png 

If that were my daily diet I'd top it off with a big dose of cyanide - it supposedly smells like almonds, and then I wouldn't have to eat that other boring-ass stuff ever again.

(Can't help but wonder about all the castrated emus this guy has caused...)

Huge posted:

The effect of partially blocking a reflex port like this is more complex than one might think.

As you are slowing the movement of the air moving into (and out of) a Helmholtz resonator, you are affecting the effective mass of the air in the reflex port and therefore affecting the tuning of the port's phase relationships (and hence it's frequency characteristics) as well as the amplitude.  This affects the interaction of the port output with the forward output of the cone.

To have a more selective effect on amplitude (with less effect on phase and frequency), you should use a thin perforated disk rather than a long diffuse plug, or use a much longer but narrower tube.

Completely agree with Huge on this in purely practical terms as well. The volume of air pumped out of the port can be prodigious. Just play the speakers at loudish volume, put your hand behind the port, and feel the movement of air. To significantly alter this air output (folks frequently say try putting a sock in the port) cannot be good for free movement of the driver or longevity of the foams. Slightly modifying the tuning of the port, say with an empty paper towel roll or the like, seems a safer approach. 

Probably more a concern with expensive loudspeakers I realize, but I'd hate to think of any device, even a lowly Tivoli, as disposable gear.

@joerand: I agree on a general basis, but I seem to remember that a certain model of Neat stand mounters came with foam thingies to put or remove from the port according to your taste. I imagine that the Tivoli One has been ported to give some bass to a a thing made for casual listening on a kitchen counter (although Minnesota Public Radio has just now sent Massenet's Thaïs Meditation, so I turned up the volume and closed my eyes and became a happy, full immersed listener for 5 minutes), so I am not sure that too much technical thought went into its reflex design.

Anyway, HH and I are not the only ones who have found its bass a bit redundant, so there must be something inherently 'wrong' in its ported design. It's just a table radio. Why a practice that is normal on costly Neats should be harmful for it?

Thanks

Max 

#2

I spoke well of the Amazon player as opposed to the shabbiness of the iPhone's own Music app, clearly made to mainly drag you into the ubiquitous, juke-box like trend of streaming subscriptions.

Now, someone whom I don't remember (sorry for that) wrote somewhere here he was using the Onkyo player on his phone or pod, so I took a look. First I downloaded the free version, then decided to invest the €9,99 for the full one, which can replay up to very high def files. I must say that the sound is good, full, smooth but refined and not lacking in detail, and is an audible shade better than the others I tried. A very elegant and considered graphic and a good GUI too.

This is still Children's Corner, so I stick with minor topics. To all iPhone or iPod owners who want a nice to look at and well thought and working player, I recommend the Onkyo. Only caveat: it will only see your Music (iTunes, so to speak) files, and not the Amazon ones, but I have installed it on my iPhone 6 where I have 32G of space and intend to only put good quality, good music files.

A happy Sunday to all.

M.

 

Nice tip, which I’ll try.  (I only use mobile music when travelling (e.g flights or long train or bus journeys, and sometimes struggle with getting  Apple’s player to play the music I know I put on...)

Now what would be really useful would be if someone could suggest acway of getting music onto an iPhone/Pad without in olving iTunes at all, to be visible to a musoc player like the Onkyo. (I have no interest in online streaming services or cloud solutions, indeed they would be useless travelling as I do not have roaming mobile data, and not usable on many airlines.)

Massimo Bertola posted:

Anyway, HH and I are not the only ones who have found [the Tivoli's] bass a bit redundant, so there must be something inherently 'wrong' in its ported design. It's just a table radio. Why a practice that is normal on costly Neats should be harmful for it?

The RA catalogue once showed a fully-pimped Tivoli Model One, on its end so that the port vented to the side, with isolation cones and upgraded mains cable

Innocent Bystander posted:

Nice tip, which I’ll try.  (I only use mobile music when travelling (e.g flights or long train or bus journeys, and sometimes struggle with getting  Apple’s player to play the music I know I put on...)

Now what would be really useful would be if someone could suggest acway of getting music onto an iPhone/Pad without in olving iTunes at all, to be visible to a musoc player like the Onkyo. (I have no interest in online streaming services or cloud solutions, indeed they would be useless travelling as I do not have roaming mobile data, and not usable on many airlines.)

IB,

bypassing iTunes is something I have a sort of idle fixe about too. I'll do experiment and will update my #2 CC chapter.

Keep an eye on it!

Max

Massimo Bertola posted:
nigelb posted:

Massimo, you can't blame me this time for thread drift. I have mentioned the d word (d**t) for ages.

Ok, but I need help.... What's the d**t word? And I didn't blame you at all for anything.... safe perhaps for the read cap of your avatar.

I was trying not to mention it again to avoid another thread drift. The d**t word is 'dust'. D'oh!

BTW, I assume you know who the great man in the red hat is in my Avatar.

Massimo Bertola posted:

#2

I spoke well of the Amazon player as opposed to the shabbiness of the iPhone's own Music app, clearly made to mainly drag you into the ubiquitous, juke-box like trend of streaming subscriptions.

Now, someone whom I don't remember (sorry for that) wrote somewhere here he was using the Onkyo player on his phone or pod, so I took a look. First I downloaded the free version, then decided to invest the €9,99 for the full one, which can replay up to very high def files. I must say that the sound is good, full, smooth but refined and not lacking in detail, and is an audible shade better than the others I tried. A very elegant and considered graphic and a good GUI too.

This is still Children's Corner, so I stick with minor topics. To all iPhone or iPod owners who want a nice to look at and well thought and working player, I recommend the Onkyo. Only caveat: it will only see your Music (iTunes, so to speak) files, and not the Amazon ones, but I have installed it on my iPhone 6 where I have 32G of space and intend to only put good quality, good music files.

A happy Sunday to all.

M.

 

For anyone who wants to avoid iTunes/Apple Music (and yet still owns an iPhone) there is now a VLC app for iOS. It will find music from various sources, stored on cloud services, locally on the iPhone, or on a network. If you really want to avoid even using iTunes to load files onto the phone, you can do it with Dropbox or other services, and VLC will find and play the files. It will also play FLAC files on an iPhone.

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