Chord Sarum T

I heard Sarum T at the Bristol show and commented on it at the time. In my opinion it could be a significant improvement over the Super Aray. Obviously you'd need to hear it for yourself in your own system. I think I recall reading on here that Debbie updated the interconnects on her LP12 from Super Aray to Sarum T recently. Hopefully she will add her thoughts in this thread now that she's had the opportunity to live with it for some time.

Comments below only refer to interconnections - i've neither heard or seen Sarum T power cables or Speaker cables!

The Chord analogue Sarum T is the new upgraded replacement for the Sarum Super Aray. It is ranked within the Chord cable range: above Signature, and below Music.

Sarum Aray and Sarum T are also the Chord cables that are priced closest to Super Lumia.

This new improved Sarum is very different in feel, noticeably lighter in weight and less bulky, and comes wrapped in light blueish-grey mesh with the all important Taylon®Insulation, and with the most noticeable change of all being the absence of DIN lock rings. 

The new Sarum T cables also have a flatter two sided feel along with the lightness, which is more akin to the Music cables. The DIN to DIN [ CDS3 to 552 ] employs 5 pin connections, from the Sarum Aray that uses 3 pins.

The absence of DIN lock-rings is a superb improvement for fitting ease [probably sonic benefits too] but it's has to be said those lock-rings can get in the way making connections darn fiddly when at full arm stretch behind the fraim rack. Once connected the new [two sided] cables give out a dependable way of alignment that is very helpful with cable dressing, the Super Aray dressing is easy but this is even easier!

Musically the Sarum T builds on the strength of Super Aray, again more realism, more engagement and musical involvement for the listen, it maybe a halfway house between Sarum Aray and Music but this wonderful clear transparency requires a well set up system with good components conveying what is coming from upstream with little or no interference, a poor digital remaster will be exposed for the crap quality on offer, a good CD master will benefit from the wide window that allows a clear focus to produce a very satisfactory sonic quality.

I've refrained from referring to my LP12 for the Super Aray to Sarum T upgrade due to simultaneously having a Tranquility fitted. Fortunately Chord offer a 1 meter or 1.2 meter length of Sarum T cable with 2 x RSA to DIN for Urika to 552, and along with a Tranquillity i can confirm this has widened the boundaries on the superiority of LP12 Analogue source even further from digital. The good news here though is that i've been using my CDS3 player more so in order to gain some cable burn-in, and enjoying the music which has never sounded better from my CDS3, and all this with no nasty burn-in issues to report : )

Thanks to Peter at Cymbiosis for the fitting of the two Ts to my LP12  [Sarum T and Tranquility] and 3 new springs and fettling! ; )

Debs

I'm using Sarum T between NDS/552. It has replaced Naim SL. The Chord Sarum TA I had before the upgrade always sounded dull in comparison to the SL so the SL stayed.  However the Sarum T sounds like a totally different cable compared with the TA.

What is immediately apparent is that it makes the music more engaging and gives a much greater emotional connection. Having heard the Chord Music in comparison I'd say the T was around 90% there at half the cost. It's certainly closer in sound to the Music than to the Sarum TA.

About two weeks ago I upgraded my Sarum Super  Din to Din i.c.  between my NDS and 552 and the Din/Xlr cables for my 300  to the new Sarum T. Unfortunately the upgrade requires that the cables need to once again be burned in to sound their best. 

I was running my stock Lavender and Din/Xlr cables while the Sarum S cables were being upgraded. I live in the States, so I didn't  have a opportunity try the T cables before getting the upgrade. i have compared the previous Sarum Super  cables with Superlumina and in my system I preferred the Sarum S.A.. Based on what little I had read about the Sarum T I thought I would give them a try. 

While I could not do a back to back comparison between the Sarum S and the Sarum T, it was  immediately obvious, that the new cables are much better in terms of detail,clarity and PRAT than the Sarum S. . Once it had burned  in for 100 plus hours all the attributes that are important to me came clearly into  focus in a way that I have never heard before. I can only imagine what the Chord Music must sound like.

Interestingly, I added Sl speaker cables, which were fully burned in by my dealer, the day before I shipped my Sarum S cables back to Chord for the upgrade. Certainly not a definitive test,but I  thought the Sarum S cables with my trusty Naca 5 sounded much better to me than stock Naim i.c., Din/XLR cables with Superlumina speaker cables.  Not really drawing any conclusion from this just found it interesting. 

Jonn posted:

I'm using Sarum T between NDS/552. It has replaced Naim SL. The Chord Sarum TA I had before the upgrade always sounded dull in comparison to the SL so the SL stayed.  However the Sarum T sounds like a totally different cable compared with the TA.

What is immediately apparent is that it makes the music more engaging and gives a much greater emotional connection. Having heard the Chord Music in comparison I'd say the T was around 90% there at half the cost. It's certainly closer in sound to the Music than to the Sarum TA.

Hi Jonn

 

how does the Sarum T compare to the SL interconnect? 

analogmusic posted:
Jonn posted:

I'm using Sarum T between NDS/552. It has replaced Naim SL. The Chord Sarum TA I had before the upgrade always sounded dull in comparison to the SL so the SL stayed.  However the Sarum T sounds like a totally different cable compared with the TA.

What is immediately apparent is that it makes the music more engaging and gives a much greater emotional connection. Having heard the Chord Music in comparison I'd say the T was around 90% there at half the cost. It's certainly closer in sound to the Music than to the Sarum TA.

Hi Jonn

 

how does the Sarum T compare to the SL interconnect? 

SL cable is very good in terms of clarity, spaciousness, tight bass , prat, but the words I'd use to describe the Sarum T are more to do with connecting to the music, engaging, lifelike, emotional. SL is the science,Sarum T is the art.

I suppose it is great to be able to upgrade both IC and DIN/XLR to Sarum T, but according to some old forum posts, it seems one should upgrade the DIN-XLR first?

It doesn't seem logical though, as how could the DIN-XLR make up for information loss between the Source and Preamp?

Not quite

Perhaps instead of speculating a listening demo might be more in order?

My initial thoughts were skeptical - a demo quickly corrected that

My understanding is that the incidental power requirements are significant.  Have you ever turned off the display on a 552 and then compared?  It might surprise you

glevethan posted:

I do not know why however I am definitely in the minority and find that the interconnects provided a much better upgrade than the XLR's.

For an informational standpoint I have had Sarum TA, Super, and now Music - however my XLR's have remained TA

And on that side note...

this is something that I'm doing at this very moment; comparing Super Sarum to Sarum T. Even fresh out of the bag (actually fresh out of the bag, out of another bag, out of a box, out of a sleeve, out of a box... pretty well-packaged!) it's quite something. It's certainly closer to Music than Sarum, as described elsewhere, and almost makes me want to find out precisely how much better a Music version might be. Also, as Jonn describes, the improvements are in terms of musical connection; that wonderful sense of engagement and insight into why, not just what.  It's also a bit weird, to be honest, given the purpose of the cable.

lyndon posted:

Ok and display 

so with that in mind surely the best we could hope for is a smoother up and down of the volume control and perhaps brighter colours on the display 

 

lyndon

 

Until you've seen the Naim logo glowing against the inky blackness, you've not really experienced contrast.

I just had a look at Chord's website.  Quite interesting as the price is listed as 1800 gbp per meter yet they have a link to this months HiFi+ review which lists a 3 meter run at 3600 gbp i.e. 1200 per meter.  

They need to do some proof reading of the reviews they link to - or hopefully it is Chord's own website which is wrong - (Although I doubt it )

glevethan posted:

Dave

Is Chord also making Sarum T available for speaker cable or do the choices remain  simply Sarum or Music?

Best

Gregg

PS did you receive my email from the weekend?

Hi Gregg

New email server over the weekend - just replied.

Cheers

Dave

Chris Bell posted:

I will be spending the next few days with Chord Sarum T IC & DIN-XLR.  My current setup is Super Lumina IC & Sarum TA DIN-XLR.

I'll report back.  

Keen to hear your report. Although I am expecting Sarum T to win the fight 

Maybe SL vs Sarum Super Array was a matter of taste, but Sarum T is (supposedly) a game changer.

well there is a Sarum T review (May 2017) on the chord cable website.

Even compared to Chord Signature tuned aray, according to the review, the Sarum T blows that one away.

 

"It wasn’t just like hearing a different recording, it was like swapping from a mediocre CD to a really good vinyl record: life, dynamic impact, presence, immediacy, tonal, and dynamic range – the whole thing just came to life."

I've tried the Sarum-T ethernet cable between the final network switch and the streamer in my own system.  Both cables well used. Compared to Anthem it seems to do much of what people have said above about the interconnects - it seems to be a more natural sound - an unforced flow to the music.  

Followed this up with the Music version which brings even more of the same. Often when moving between different Chord ranges there is a clear difference in the presentation. However, between Sarum-T and Music in this cable format they deliver very obviously in the same way. Music just refines it that bit more. Sarum-T offers most of the joy for less money. Its on order.

Every time I compare ethernet cables I'm determined not to hear a difference, but my expectation bias keeps letting me down.

sunbeamgls posted:

I've tried the Sarum-T ethernet cable between the final network switch and the streamer in my own system.  Both cables well used. Compared to Anthem it seems to do much of what people have said above about the interconnects - it seems to be a more natural sound - an unforced flow to the music.  

Followed this up with the Music version which brings even more of the same. Often when moving between different Chord ranges there is a clear difference in the presentation. However, between Sarum-T and Music in this cable format they deliver very obviously in the same way. Music just refines it that bit more. Sarum-T offers most of the joy for less money. Its on order.

Every time I compare ethernet cables I'm determined not to hear a difference, but my expectation bias keeps letting me down.

Exactly my experience - between the Melco and KDSM. I'm about to have my "old" Sarum TAs upgraded to T status with the aim of getting more from Tidal. 

sunbeamgls posted:

I've tried the Sarum-T ethernet cable between the final network switch and the streamer in my own system.  Both cables well used. Compared to Anthem it seems to do much of what people have said above about the interconnects - it seems to be a more natural sound - an unforced flow to the music.  

Followed this up with the Music version which brings even more of the same. Often when moving between different Chord ranges there is a clear difference in the presentation. However, between Sarum-T and Music in this cable format they deliver very obviously in the same way. Music just refines it that bit more. Sarum-T offers most of the joy for less money. Its on order.

Every time I compare ethernet cables I'm determined not to hear a difference, but my expectation bias keeps letting me down.

I finally upgraded from Audioquest Vodka Ethernet to Chord Indigo Aray Ethernet! I told myself I would not spend the money to do that, then I did, and it was a big difference! Much more musical detail. I can't imagine how much better Sarum T Ethernet cable is, but I bet it is very noticeable. Now I have to figure out how to buy a Sarum T interconnect and a Ethernet cable. I know it would really improve the musical experience with my Naim NDS/555DR. But it will hurt the bank account and it will be hard to convince my wife after I told her it would stop after Indigo Aray Ethernet and Sarum Super Aray interconnect! Ha! Why do I promise this is the last upgrade! Silly me! 

analogmusic posted:

I suppose it is great to be able to upgrade both IC and DIN/XLR to Sarum T, but according to some old forum posts, it seems one should upgrade the DIN-XLR first?

It doesn't seem logical though, as how could the DIN-XLR make up for information loss between the Source and Preamp?

No hands on experience, but I'm with you this one Analog.

Mr. TM CEO @ Vertere, the weakest link Guy!

Once one has secured his End Game System, it only seems logical, that the weakest link would involve the loss or, contamination of the Signal derived from the source.

With that being said, IF, I decide to pursue the Loom, I would address the Speaker Cabling next, hoping for a knockout, Completing the final link with the XLR IC.

JMHO!

Just on the side line, learning!

Thanks!

Allante93!

Spent the last few days comparing Sarum Tuned Array (STA) IC & DIN-XLR, Sarum T (ST) IC & DIN-XLR, AVoptions Deep-Cryo Lavender IC (AVO), Naim Super Lumina IC (SL) and the Naim DIN-XLR supplied with my NAP500 15 years ago. Many thanks to my friend Brooks for loaning my his ST cables for this demo.

I became a fan of Chord cables back when I replaced my Hi-Line, 4-5 DIN and DIN-XLR's with Sarum Tuned Array. This upgrade represented a big jump in resolution.  I was content with the sound until I heard the Naim SL interconnect.  This represented a HUGE jump in sound quality, especially in the bass region.  I did all number of comparisons this weekend and it was very interesting. Both my 552 and 500 were recapped and DR'd earlier this year and only in the past couple of weeks did they start to truly sound good.  Amazing how long the 552 took to bloom and I'm guessing there is more to come.  Bottom line is I prefered the sound of the Naim SL by a wide margin.  It was dynamic, explosive, had better resolution and offered the most engaging experience.  The Chord ST was very good and I would describe the sound as smooth and even tempered.  I could hear the evolution between the ST and STA, the newer cable showing Chord's maturity of design.  I broke out a Deep-Cryo'd lavender IC from AVoptions and was surprised how musical it sounded.  It did not have the dynamics of the Super Lumina nor the resolution of Chord's but it held its own.  Same can be said for the 15 year old DIN-XLR cable supplied with my NAP500.  It had an "old school" Naim sound I knew well and could not fault. 

My conclusion is the Super Lumina won due to the advanced Air-PLUG.  I have become all too aware how sensitive cables are to vibrations and Naim has engineered a complex (expensive) solution.  It's also a double edged sword as the cable is merciless if the system is not properly sorted out.  I think if Chord could design a decoupled DIN connector their cable would perform even better.  

That's my 2 cents... your milage may vary.   

Chris Bell posted:

Spent the last few days comparing Sarum Tuned Array (STA) IC & DIN-XLR, Sarum T (ST) IC & DIN-XLR, AVoptions Deep-Cryo Lavender IC (AVO), Naim Super Lumina IC (SL) and the Naim DIN-XLR supplied with my NAP500 15 years ago. Many thanks to my friend Brooks for loaning my his ST cables for this demo.

I became a fan of Chord cables back when I replaced my Hi-Line, 4-5 DIN and DIN-XLR's with Sarum Tuned Array. This upgrade represented a big jump in resolution.  I was content with the sound until I heard the Naim SL interconnect.  This represented a HUGE jump in sound quality, especially in the bass region.  I did all number of comparisons this weekend and it was very interesting. Both my 552 and 500 were recapped and DR'd earlier this year and only in the past couple of weeks did they start to truly sound good.  Amazing how long the 552 took to bloom and I'm guessing there is more to come.  Bottom line is I prefered the sound of the Naim SL by a wide margin.  It was dynamic, explosive, had better resolution and offered the most engaging experience.  The Chord ST was very good and I would describe the sound as smooth and even tempered.  I could hear the evolution between the ST and STA, the newer cable showing Chord's maturity of design.  I broke out a Deep-Cryo'd lavender IC from AVoptions and was surprised how musical it sounded.  It did not have the dynamics of the Super Lumina nor the resolution of Chord's but it held its own.  Same can be said for the 15 year old DIN-XLR cable supplied with my NAP500.  It had an "old school" Naim sound I knew well and could not fault. 

My conclusion is the Super Lumina won due to the advanced Air-PLUG.  I have become all too aware how sensitive cables are to vibrations and Naim has engineered a complex (expensive) solution.  It's also a double edged sword as the cable is merciless if the system is not properly sorted out.  I think if Chord could design a decoupled DIN connector their cable would perform even better.  

That's my 2 cents... your milage may vary.   

Is there anyway to get a hold of Chord Music cable to hear that too? I heard the Chord Music at my dealer, it blew me away!  I heard it is noticeably better than Chord Sarum T. Thank you for doing the experiment and posting the findings ! 

Chris Bell posted:

Bottom line is I prefered the sound of the Naim SL by a wide margin.  It was dynamic, explosive, had better resolution and offered the most engaging experience.  The Chord ST was very good and I would describe the sound as smooth and even tempered.  

Weirdly that is the exact polar opposite of how I hear them - the SL being the one that sounds constrained and smooth and lacking spark. Oh well, à chacun son goût 

Chris Dolan posted:
Chris Bell posted:

Bottom line is I prefered the sound of the Naim SL by a wide margin.  It was dynamic, explosive, had better resolution and offered the most engaging experience.  The Chord ST was very good and I would describe the sound as smooth and even tempered.  

Weirdly that is the exact polar opposite of how I hear them - the SL being the one that sounds constrained and smooth and lacking spark. Oh well, à chacun son goût 

Me too - SL wasn't even close - but really interesting to hear different views.

What intrigues me is that there appears to be a different focus on what the cable does. For me, SL follows the route of concentrating on what element(s) of the frequency spectrum sound better, whereas Sarum T and Music simply focus on the intent and emotion of the performance. I can understand why some will lean towards the former but the latter is what I seek from my music.

Based on folks' experiences with SL vs. Chord Sarum, it did seem to me that those with a more positive experience with SL were using it in a completely Naim system and those of us with kit from other manufacturers in the chain tended to prefer Chord. For my part, a (run in) SL phono to DIN interconnect came a very poor second best to a Chord Super Sarum. It would be interesting to learn if others have formed the same view.

tonym posted:

Based on folks' experiences with SL vs. Chord Sarum, it did seem to me that those with a more positive experience with SL were using it in a completely Naim system and those of us with kit from other manufacturers in the chain tended to prefer Chord. For my part, a (run in) SL phono to DIN interconnect came a very poor second best to a Chord Super Sarum. It would be interesting to learn if others have formed the same view.

There might be something in that observation Tony. I also notice that a lot of Chord users are also LP12 devotees. When I tried SSA IC I thought there was much 'LP12ness' to the sonic presentation and made digital sources sound more analogue and very ordered, whilst SL could sometimes get a bit raucous. In many ways I prefered the SSA, BUT I just found that come the end of every track I tried I simply hadn't got the same emotional shot that I got from SL.

My experience chimes well with Chris Bell's description: 

"Bottom line is I prefered the sound of the Naim SL by a wide margin. It was dynamic, explosive, had better resolution and offered the most engaging experience. The Chord ST was very good and I would describe the sound as smooth and even tempered.  "

"Vertere has continued to demonstrate conclusively that for almost any system, the weakest link is the connecting cables. The next weakest link is the tonearm, followed by the turntable. In that order Vertere has set out to produce the absolute utmost highest quality analog audio components. Each weakness systematically eliminated so that, just when you thought things couldn't get better, they did."

I like the Weakest Link Guy, I'm surprised I don't hear that much about his Cables on the Forum. 

Anyway, his logical, and methodical approach to hi- fi, had me contemplating until I seen the price list!

Just as economical as Chord & Naim. LOL!

Allante93!

i compared SL to Chord Sarum Aray IC in an all Naim system and had a clear preference of the SL. This was in the days before the Super Aray. The Chord gave what I called a rather beautiful presentation but lacked a little excitement and the SL was more incisive and gave a more engaging listening experience. 

It might be that all-Naim effect that has been suggested. Who knows.

The high level of resolution produced by a 552/500 system can really show a cable's "personality". At this level, the room also imparts significant influence in how the overall presentation is perceived . Chris preferred the SL by "a wide margin"- there you go, SL works best in his room. All of these cables are expensive and warrant a home demo..you may find that in your system the SL sounds rolled off and dull compared to the Chord. One thing is for sure though, there are cables available to improve on standard Naim offerings - choice and options are a good thing .

ATB,

Mark

 

The Tuned Array technology was invented to solve reflections going back and forth in digital coax RCA cables. And it is audible in analog cables too, I hear this and the Sarum does clean up the sound, particularly the starting and ending of notes. All Chord cables are primarily about maintaining Pace Rhythm and Timing, that is where the musical magic lies. Sound familiar? It's important to note that Chord started by making RCA to DIN cables for Naim, and Naim helped design the very first Chord Chrysalis. This is on the Chord Website.

The SL cables, do seem to have some relationship with Vertere, and well vertere is all about 2 things mainly : the preservation of musical energy (sound familiar?) and also about doing the least possible damage to the signal, not trying to change or modify it in the process. According to Vertere (and Chord) the best cable is the measured not in terms of what it does (that is the job of the source), but in terms of what a cable "does not do"

I appreciate a lot that the Chord Made the Sarum T more price accessible, previously one had to buy the Chord Music, so there is trickle down (as Chord did with Tuned Aray all the way down to 100 GBP/meter), but it would be nice if Naim trickled down some of the SL technology to make it more price accessible.

One has the Hi-line, but what about Din-XLR and speaker cables?

Chris Bell posted:

Good point Mark.  There are so many variables which shape the sound.  The SL worked great in my room... it could sound completely different in another space.  

The first point was also a dandy, especially to those who have decided to address the weakest link within their Systems, with something less than a 552!

Let's not forget, the Birth of the SL technologies were designed to Complement the STATEMENT! 

As I recall, the 500 Club was rocking well with Standard Naim ICs & Nac A5 before the Statement.

So yes Mark, good point:

[The high level of resolution produced by a 552/500 system can really show a cable's "personality".]

Going out on a limb here, I doubt that little wire incorporated within Naim Amps, which allowed Nac A5 to work fine, wasn't incorporated in The Statement Mono Blocks.

Hence, SL Speaker Cable, to Complete the Loom.

Good point Mark!

S1 ~ 90K USD no PS needed

552 ~ 30K - including PS

252 ~ 14K - including PS

282 ~ 12K - including SCDR

The weakest Link ~ the IC

Lost or Contamination of Source Signal.

Allante93!

 

 

 

Allante... you make a good point.  Super Lumina was created for Statement, electronics with a noise floor substantially lower than any other current Naim amp.   While my NAP500DR has the same 009 transistors, it's not in the same league. As a consequence the SL cable will show off any flaw in the system setup. I've spent hours weaving cables so they don't touch and using foam blocks to decouple cables from the floor.  Perhaps the actions of a crazy person, but the 552 is so sensitive I can hear the difference.  It's all about the setup... at this level every detail is critical.  

analogmusic posted:

.................The SL cables, do seem to have some relationship with Vertere, and well vertere is all about 2 things mainly : the preservation of musical energy (sound familiar?) and also about doing the least possible damage to the signal, not trying to change or modify it in the process. According to Vertere (and Chord) the best cable is the measured not in terms of what it does (that is the job of the source), but in terms of what a cable "does not do"

I appreciate a lot that the Chord Made the Sarum T more price accessible, previously one had to buy the Chord Music, so there is trickle down (as Chord did with Tuned Aray all the way down to 100 GBP/meter), but it would be nice if Naim trickled down some of the SL technology to make it more price accessible.

One has the Hi-line, but what about Din-XLR and speaker cables?

Makes sense to me, but I just read up on this Guy a couple of weeks ago, I like him.

I call him the weakest link Guy!

I don't have the hands on experience that you have analog, but I agree with you 100%.

However, Let's not for get, Focal/Naim is about Streamlining, 

Posted by HH:

"But it now means that Naim no longer make speakers, don't make arms, have ditched their best CD players, and now no longer make separate tuners. How times change. It makes me quite wistful. "

That's right, 152, 155, 172, and the XP5XS all killed off!

Is that a bad thing?

Not necessarily so, just sign of the times, a Prince Thing!

So, I doubt we will see Naim adding anything, in Fact, there hands are full this very moment.

New dac Format, Nova, etc... What ever it's called.

So perhaps it's a good thing, at least we have our Marque Separates, for now!

Allante93!

kevin J Carden posted:
tonym posted:

Based on folks' experiences with SL vs. Chord Sarum, it did seem to me that those with a more positive experience with SL were using it in a completely Naim system and those of us with kit from other manufacturers in the chain tended to prefer Chord. For my part, a (run in) SL phono to DIN interconnect came a very poor second best to a Chord Super Sarum. It would be interesting to learn if others have formed the same view.

There might be something in that observation Tony. I also notice that a lot of Chord users are also LP12 devotees. When I tried SSA IC I thought there was much 'LP12ness' to the sonic presentation and made digital sources sound more analogue and very ordered, whilst SL could sometimes get a bit raucous. In many ways I prefered the SSA, BUT I just found that come the end of every track I tried I simply hadn't got the same emotional shot that I got from SL.

My experience chimes well with Chris Bell's description: 

"Bottom line is I prefered the sound of the Naim SL by a wide margin. It was dynamic, explosive, had better resolution and offered the most engaging experience. The Chord ST was very good and I would describe the sound as smooth and even tempered.  "

However, I should add that at the time of my SSA/SL shootout my system was 52/500(nonDR) and I wondered then if 552 in particular would alter my view. I now have 552DR and 500DR and before I go any further along the SL route ( I only have the IC so far) I will borrow the ST at some point to re-compare. 

kevin J Carden posted:
kevin J Carden posted:
tonym posted:

Based on folks' experiences with SL vs. Chord Sarum, it did seem to me that those with a more positive experience with SL were using it in a completely Naim system and those of us with kit from other manufacturers in the chain tended to prefer Chord. For my part, a (run in) SL phono to DIN interconnect came a very poor second best to a Chord Super Sarum. It would be interesting to learn if others have formed the same view.

There might be something in that observation Tony. I also notice that a lot of Chord users are also LP12 devotees. When I tried SSA IC I thought there was much 'LP12ness' to the sonic presentation and made digital sources sound more analogue and very ordered, whilst SL could sometimes get a bit raucous. In many ways I prefered the SSA, BUT I just found that come the end of every track I tried I simply hadn't got the same emotional shot that I got from SL.

My experience chimes well with Chris Bell's description: 

"Bottom line is I prefered the sound of the Naim SL by a wide margin. It was dynamic, explosive, had better resolution and offered the most engaging experience. The Chord ST was very good and I would describe the sound as smooth and even tempered.  "

However, I should add that at the time of my SSA/SL shootout my system was 52/500(nonDR) and I wondered then if 552 in particular would alter my view. I now have 552DR and 500DR and before I go any further along the SL route ( I only have the IC so far) I will borrow the ST at some point to re-compare. 

I look forward to your views on this as I have heard the Sarum T (and Music) at demos and I suspect they are a bit special.

nigelb posted:
kevin J Carden posted:
kevin J Carden posted:
tonym posted:

Based on folks' experiences with SL vs. Chord Sarum, it did seem to me that those with a more positive experience with SL were using it in a completely Naim system and those of us with kit from other manufacturers in the chain tended to prefer Chord. For my part, a (run in) SL phono to DIN interconnect came a very poor second best to a Chord Super Sarum. It would be interesting to learn if others have formed the same view.

There might be something in that observation Tony. I also notice that a lot of Chord users are also LP12 devotees. When I tried SSA IC I thought there was much 'LP12ness' to the sonic presentation and made digital sources sound more analogue and very ordered, whilst SL could sometimes get a bit raucous. In many ways I prefered the SSA, BUT I just found that come the end of every track I tried I simply hadn't got the same emotional shot that I got from SL.

My experience chimes well with Chris Bell's description: 

"Bottom line is I prefered the sound of the Naim SL by a wide margin. It was dynamic, explosive, had better resolution and offered the most engaging experience. The Chord ST was very good and I would describe the sound as smooth and even tempered.  "

However, I should add that at the time of my SSA/SL shootout my system was 52/500(nonDR) and I wondered then if 552 in particular would alter my view. I now have 552DR and 500DR and before I go any further along the SL route ( I only have the IC so far) I will borrow the ST at some point to re-compare. 

I look forward to your views on this as I have heard the Sarum T (and Music) at demos and I suspect they are a bit special.

I have heard Chord Music at a dealer but not Chord Sarum T. How much difference in sound quality would you say there is betweeb the two? 

musicfan51 posted:
nigelb posted:
kevin J Carden posted:
kevin J Carden posted:
tonym posted:

Based on folks' experiences with SL vs. Chord Sarum, it did seem to me that those with a more positive experience with SL were using it in a completely Naim system and those of us with kit from other manufacturers in the chain tended to prefer Chord. For my part, a (run in) SL phono to DIN interconnect came a very poor second best to a Chord Super Sarum. It would be interesting to learn if others have formed the same view.

There might be something in that observation Tony. I also notice that a lot of Chord users are also LP12 devotees. When I tried SSA IC I thought there was much 'LP12ness' to the sonic presentation and made digital sources sound more analogue and very ordered, whilst SL could sometimes get a bit raucous. In many ways I prefered the SSA, BUT I just found that come the end of every track I tried I simply hadn't got the same emotional shot that I got from SL.

My experience chimes well with Chris Bell's description: 

"Bottom line is I prefered the sound of the Naim SL by a wide margin. It was dynamic, explosive, had better resolution and offered the most engaging experience. The Chord ST was very good and I would describe the sound as smooth and even tempered.  "

However, I should add that at the time of my SSA/SL shootout my system was 52/500(nonDR) and I wondered then if 552 in particular would alter my view. I now have 552DR and 500DR and before I go any further along the SL route ( I only have the IC so far) I will borrow the ST at some point to re-compare. 

I look forward to your views on this as I have heard the Sarum T (and Music) at demos and I suspect they are a bit special.

I have heard Chord Music at a dealer but not Chord Sarum T. How much difference in sound quality would you say there is betweeb the two? 

I heard the Music and Sarum T a year apart at the Bristol Show and they were different cables (one was a digital cable and the other was speaker cable) so impossible to make comparisons. Chord however clearly demonstrated their superiority by comparisons with their cables further down the tree. Both the T and the Music were significant steps up in SQ at each demo.

nigelb posted:
kevin J Carden posted:
kevin J Carden posted:
tonym posted:

Based on folks' experiences with SL vs. Chord Sarum, it did seem to me that those with a more positive experience with SL were using it in a completely Naim system and those of us with kit from other manufacturers in the chain tended to prefer Chord. For my part, a (run in) SL phono to DIN interconnect came a very poor second best to a Chord Super Sarum. It would be interesting to learn if others have formed the same view.

There might be something in that observation Tony. I also notice that a lot of Chord users are also LP12 devotees. When I tried SSA IC I thought there was much 'LP12ness' to the sonic presentation and made digital sources sound more analogue and very ordered, whilst SL could sometimes get a bit raucous. In many ways I prefered the SSA, BUT I just found that come the end of every track I tried I simply hadn't got the same emotional shot that I got from SL.

My experience chimes well with Chris Bell's description: 

"Bottom line is I prefered the sound of the Naim SL by a wide margin. It was dynamic, explosive, had better resolution and offered the most engaging experience. The Chord ST was very good and I would describe the sound as smooth and even tempered.  "

However, I should add that at the time of my SSA/SL shootout my system was 52/500(nonDR) and I wondered then if 552 in particular would alter my view. I now have 552DR and 500DR and before I go any further along the SL route ( I only have the IC so far) I will borrow the ST at some point to re-compare. 

I look forward to your views on this as I have heard the Sarum T (and Music) at demos and I suspect they are a bit special.

Sadly Nigel, it may not be very soon. I've already pushed my luck with spending as it is 

kevin J Carden posted:
nigelb posted:
kevin J Carden posted:
kevin J Carden posted:
tonym posted:

Based on folks' experiences with SL vs. Chord Sarum, it did seem to me that those with a more positive experience with SL were using it in a completely Naim system and those of us with kit from other manufacturers in the chain tended to prefer Chord. For my part, a (run in) SL phono to DIN interconnect came a very poor second best to a Chord Super Sarum. It would be interesting to learn if others have formed the same view.

There might be something in that observation Tony. I also notice that a lot of Chord users are also LP12 devotees. When I tried SSA IC I thought there was much 'LP12ness' to the sonic presentation and made digital sources sound more analogue and very ordered, whilst SL could sometimes get a bit raucous. In many ways I prefered the SSA, BUT I just found that come the end of every track I tried I simply hadn't got the same emotional shot that I got from SL.

My experience chimes well with Chris Bell's description: 

"Bottom line is I prefered the sound of the Naim SL by a wide margin. It was dynamic, explosive, had better resolution and offered the most engaging experience. The Chord ST was very good and I would describe the sound as smooth and even tempered.  "

However, I should add that at the time of my SSA/SL shootout my system was 52/500(nonDR) and I wondered then if 552 in particular would alter my view. I now have 552DR and 500DR and before I go any further along the SL route ( I only have the IC so far) I will borrow the ST at some point to re-compare. 

I look forward to your views on this as I have heard the Sarum T (and Music) at demos and I suspect they are a bit special.

Sadly Nigel, it may not be very soon. I've already pushed my luck with spending as it is 

Sadly Kevin, I know the feeling!

analogmusic posted:

is it factual that Sarum cables need 600 hours of running in time?

if running in 24/7 that is still 25 days of non-stop?

glevethan posted:

Nonsense - debunked a while ago

** I have had Sarum TA, Super Sarum, and now Music

 

Well, a little experience here, never bought brand new Naim, but did pickup a demo 5 year warranty open box 250.2 [ 2015 ].

Perfect timing, the DR amps were hitting the Market.

I figured cold, wires etc... Should run in in a couple of days. About a week, didn't sound bad, I figured it was broke in.

Then about 2 months or so, can't really pin point it, I noticed a change. The simplest way I can describe it, a lower noise FLOOR, and the pure flow rate of Music was effortless, smoother, well I tried!!!

Point being, I have heard members say break in periods can last for up to 6 months, or an year!

So when I do get to that point, and ready to fork out thousands on ICs & Speaker Cables, 2 weeks, or a month, it's all good!

At the price of (Taylon Music), I would probably be noticing changes up to Ten Years! LOL.....

Allante93!

 

 

All cables improve after some run-in.... A search will yield many discussing the long, arduous run in of the SL cables before they really shine. Imo, you should get a good idea of what the cable "will do " right out of the box and run in simply improves on this.

ATB,

Mark

analogmusic posted:
glevethan posted:

Nonsense - debunked a while ago

** I have had Sarum TA, Super Sarum, and now Music

 

so how long does it take to run in?

I guess this is a bit like 282 vs 252 unresolved debate on Naim forum.

lot of strong support for SL , and lots of support for Sarum....

 

 

My Chord Sarum Super Aray took about 600 hours to be fully realized ! Had some some ups and downs and finally settled in.  The dealer that sells Chord locally said Taylon in Chord Music (I assume also Sarum T) does not have the ups and downs like Super Aray does!  The swings in sound can be large in the beginning on SA. The new Chord Music he has on display sounded great from get go but did improve the longer he played it!  He did not tell me how many hours to get complete burn in.  

varyat posted:

All cables improve after some run-in.... A search will yield many discussing the long, arduous run in of the SL cables before they really shine. Imo, you should get a good idea of what the cable "will do " right out of the box and run in simply improves on this.

ATB,

Mark

Yep. My Sarum/SuperSarums sounded great straight out of the box & improved over a couple of weeks or so. 

Just got back from Gary Shaw's, having taken a solitary Sarum T cable (he does already have a Super Sarum interconnect, DIN-XLR and speaker cables). I've been testing it for a week, fresh out of the box, and can say that Taylon does indeed soften the burn in blow.

I believe Gary was a little shocked.

Just a reminder to members that discussion of 3rd party "SNAIC" substitutes is not allowed as these constitute an unauthorised modification to Naim equipment - their use may result in damage to Naim equipment, which may be considered as "abuse" under the terms of Naim's warranty conditions.

glevethan posted:

Sorry however I went from Super Sarum straight to Music.  I have never heard "T".

I am also curious in a comparison as Music speaker cable may be a bit pricey for me.  Curious to know if I could "slum" it with plain old vanilla "T"

Best 

Gregg

I am curious in the differences in Chord Sarum T and Chord Music too Gregg. What the build (construction) quality differences are and the sound quality differences are? 

glevethan posted:

Sorry however I went from Super Sarum straight to Music.  I have never heard "T".

I am also curious in a comparison as Music speaker cable may be a bit pricey for me.  Curious to know if I could "slum" it with plain old vanilla "T"

Best 

Gregg

Must be your lucky day, I know just the speaker Cable for you!

Sarum T, only 1800 Pounds!

And Guess What, it contains the secret ingredient, Taylon! LOL...

But on the serious side, I'm in the market for that out  dated Signature Speaker Cable, really looks like it's put together very well!

But I don't have to tell you!

I Bet that Music really hits a Chord!

Allante93!

 

musicfan51 posted:
glevethan posted:

Why against all logic? 

I went from Super Sarum to Music- double jaw dropper

Do you or anybody on this thread done a comparison on Chord Music to Chord Sarum T. ?

what percentage difference do you think Music is over Sarum T. ?  Thanks 

43.43%

Chris Dolan posted:
musicfan51 posted:
glevethan posted:

Why against all logic? 

I went from Super Sarum to Music- double jaw dropper

Do you or anybody on this thread done a comparison on Chord Music to Chord Sarum T. ?

what percentage difference do you think Music is over Sarum T. ?  Thanks 

43.43%

Ha ha ha ha! Not 42% huh!  Yeah I know, the answer that Chord gives me is compare the two models at your dealer. But no dealer near me has both to compare! So there you go! Basically don't ask these questions. If you got the money buy Chord Music if not buy Sarum T. If that is too pricey buy another model. Stupid me asking for questions right! 

Allante93 posted.

But on the serious side, I'm in the market for that out  dated Signature Speaker Cable, really looks like it's put together very well!

But I don't have to tell you!

I Bet that Music really hits a Chord!

Allante93!

 

I can't comment on Signature Tuned Array speaker cable  however I do have one of the interconnects for my headphone system and it is not bad. 

I would say though that the longer you have been in this game you start to realize that it is VERY DIFFICULT to beat NACA5 for sound and VFM.  

Tread lightly- unless you really make a big jump NACA is very difficult to beat.

Chris Dolan posted:

I have a Chord Sarum Super ARAY phono/DIN on my Urika, I am more likely to change to the equivalent ChordMusic than to Sarum T 

Made that jump on both the Urika and Klimax DS

I think Chord may have finally plateaued and we will no longer be seeing  frequent updates as we have during these past few years.

Music, imho, is an end game cable.   After my first demo session with it my comment was that the name was VERY appropriate.  It simply plays MUSIC

glevethan posted:
Chris Dolan posted:

I have a Chord Sarum Super ARAY phono/DIN on my Urika, I am more likely to change to the equivalent ChordMusic than to Sarum T 

Made that jump on both the Urika and Klimax DS

I think Chord may have finally plateaued and we will no longer be seeing  frequent updates as we have during these past few years.

Music, imho, is an end game cable.   After my first demo session with it my comment was that the name was VERY appropriate.  It simply plays MUSIC

Music does seem to be close to the perfect cable! I was sure blown away at the difference ! Trying to figure out how to afford Chord Music is the issue for me! 

 

musicfan51 posted:
glevethan posted:
Chris Dolan posted:

I have a Chord Sarum Super ARAY phono/DIN on my Urika, I am more likely to change to the equivalent ChordMusic than to Sarum T 

Made that jump on both the Urika and Klimax DS

I think Chord may have finally plateaued and we will no longer be seeing  frequent updates as we have during these past few years.

Music, imho, is an end game cable.   After my first demo session with it my comment was that the name was VERY appropriate.  It simply plays MUSIC

Music does seem to be close to the perfect cable! I was sure blown away at the difference ! Trying to figure out how to afford Chord Music is the issue for me! 

 

That's the issue for all of us.  

I need a 5m speaker run!  My kids need to finish their college education.

In an otherwise all Music-cabled system (apart from mains leads), comparing Super Sarum to Sarum T over the past fortnight reveals that the Taylon equipped version is a real step up. It has a good dose of the Music's signature - that effortless ability to get to the emotion and meaning - but I don't think it's quite as close as some would hope. There's still a fair gap but it is really, really good and, I'd say, a must do upgrade for existing Sarum users.

I'd like to hear the speaker cable as I think that could be very interesting, given the hellish cost of Music in longer lengths.

Thanks Dave - you are killing me!

Each time I listen to my MUSIC cable on my KDS I am reduced to a blubbering idiot talking to himself.  I might have to sell my left kidney - or have my children forgo their last two years of college eduction - to swing a pair of speaker cables into the house.  In the end the rational thing to do would be to keep the synergy and just go for Music and not interject the "T" into the system

Truly breathtaking

Chris Dolan posted:
musicfan51 posted:

I contacted Chord and asked them the difference in Sound Quality Chord Sarum T & Chord Music !  They replied both are a big upgrade from Sarum Super Aray! But Music is noticeably better then Sarum T.  

Well they would say that, wouldn't they 

Yeah guess so !  Ha! Though it may be true !  No place to hear for me compare right now! 

I don't know if this will be of help to any other music lovers, but I just installed a pair of the new Sarum T cables into my system in place of my original Sarum Tuned Aray version of the Sarum level product.     This was the least scientific demo of all time- I have to confess.    I had removed the older cable from my system months ago, and managed to procrastinate so long that while I had intended to send it to Chord to have them upgrade it to the now intermediate Super Aray generation, by the time I actually got around to this, they had introduced the new Sarum T to the marketplace.    So, once the good folks at Chord had confirmed that they would be able to update my cables all the way to the newest generation of the Sarum cables, this was what I had them do.

Even with only a day of signal running through the cables, this new cable was far more sophisticated and complete than the performance I recalled from my original cable.    Superb detailing in the music, a very low noise floor, and a wonderful sense of ease while not being in any way a bloated sound.     If it gets much better with more break in time, I may have a hard time leaving home....

Good listening,

Bruce

 

bdnyc posted:

I don't know if this will be of help to any other music lovers, but I just installed a pair of the new Sarum T cables into my system in place of my original Sarum Tuned Aray version of the Sarum level product.     This was the least scientific demo of all time- I have to confess.    I had removed the older cable from my system months ago, and managed to procrastinate so long that while I had intended to send it to Chord to have them upgrade it to the now intermediate Super Aray generation, by the time I actually got around to this, they had introduced the new Sarum T to the marketplace.    So, once the good folks at Chord had confirmed that they would be able to update my cables all the way to the newest generation of the Sarum cables, this was what I had them do.

Even with only a day of signal running through the cables, this new cable was far more sophisticated and complete than the performance I recalled from my original cable.    Superb detailing in the music, a very low noise floor, and a wonderful sense of ease while not being in any way a bloated sound.     If it gets much better with more break in time, I may have a hard time leaving home....

Good listening,

Bruce

 

Are you using a Naim Streamer or Naim CD player for your source that you used the Sarum Ts on?  I asked cause wanted to know where you placed the Sarum Ts and on what stereo gear? I am still wondering what the sonic differences are in Chord Sarum T and Chord Music ? Some say it is close, others say it is not!  My dealer only has Chord Music. So no way to compare! Thanks for your input on the Sarum T. Bruce. They (Sarum T) sound like a big upgrade to Sarum Tuned Aray. I am using Sarum Super Aray on NDS Streamer! That is where I would do first upgrade . After that,  is If can afford it, I would upgrade between amp and Preamp !  

bdnyc posted:

I don't know if this will be of help to any other music lovers, but I just installed a pair of the new Sarum T cables into my system in place of my original Sarum Tuned Aray version of the Sarum level product.     This was the least scientific demo of all time- I have to confess.    I had removed the older cable from my system months ago, and managed to procrastinate so long that while I had intended to send it to Chord to have them upgrade it to the now intermediate Super Aray generation, by the time I actually got around to this, they had introduced the new Sarum T to the marketplace.    So, once the good folks at Chord had confirmed that they would be able to update my cables all the way to the newest generation of the Sarum cables, this was what I had them do.

Even with only a day of signal running through the cables, this new cable was far more sophisticated and complete than the performance I recalled from my original cable.    Superb detailing in the music, a very low noise floor, and a wonderful sense of ease while not being in any way a bloated sound.     If it gets much better with more break in time, I may have a hard time leaving home....

Good listening,

Bruce

 

I have heard the demo of Chord Music over Sarum Super Aray and was shocked how much better it was! I am getting serious on upgrading Interconnects either to Sarum T or Chord Music. It is a big decision though. One where your wife has to approve it.  But the difference is not subtle! 

 

When I compared the Sarum T to the Music there were more similarities than differences in terms of a lifelike and engaging sound. The Music provided greater insight but not a fundamentally different sound. On balance not worth paying nearly twice as much for the Music  IMO.

Hi Musicfan 51,

My system configuration is probably not widely known in the UK as it includes a number of American high end products in addition to my Naim components.     I intended this particular cable for use on my Naim NAT 01 FM tuner, which is my favorite source even though it is somewhat unusual these days.    I have also used it on my CDS 3 to good effect.    I would encourage you to try to hear some of these fine cables for yourself, but I don't have any meaningful in depth experience of the specific performance levels of the modern Chord Company cables myself, unfortunately.     Perhaps you can find a good local dealer who displays various tiers of the Chord cables so you can hear them for yourself, or you might be able to do this at an audio show if Chord was presenting?

Good luck,

Bruce

 

Chris Dolan posted:

Well I have now heard the ChordMusic v Sarum T (which is actually branded Sarum T Super Aray but it's probably easier just to refer to Saum T). I really should not have done so 

Chris- The Urika deserves the Music....you will not regret it 

ATB,

Mark

varyat posted:
Chris Dolan posted:

Well I have now heard the ChordMusic v Sarum T (which is actually branded Sarum T Super Aray but it's probably easier just to refer to Saum T). I really should not have done so 

Chris- The Urika deserves the Music....you will not regret it 

ATB,

Mark

I have Naim NDS/555Dr as source and Kef Blade Twos as speakers! Would Chord Music be worth using as Interconnects from NDS to Preamp  over Sarum Ts with this equipment or too subjective to say ?? 

musicfan51 posted:
varyat posted:
Chris Dolan posted:

Well I have now heard the ChordMusic v Sarum T (which is actually branded Sarum T Super Aray but it's probably easier just to refer to Saum T). I really should not have done so 

Chris- The Urika deserves the Music....you will not regret it 

ATB,

Mark

I have Naim NDS/555Dr as source and Kef Blade Twos as speakers! Would Chord Music be worth using as Interconnects from NDS to Preamp  over Sarum Ts with this equipment or too subjective to say ?? 

Definitely worth using Music in your set up. I believe Alan Gibb at Chord uses Blades at home - he will of course be using Music.

Sarum T is terrific but Music is another big step upwards.

varyat posted:
Chris Dolan posted:

Well I have now heard the ChordMusic v Sarum T (which is actually branded Sarum T Super Aray but it's probably easier just to refer to Sarum T). I really should not have done so 

Chris - The Urika deserves the Music....you will not regret it 

 

Mark - I am now sure that you are right that the Urika deserves the Music, but I was kind of hoping that you weren't  

Dave J posted:
musicfan51 posted:
varyat posted:
Chris Dolan posted:

Well I have now heard the ChordMusic v Sarum T (which is actually branded Sarum T Super Aray but it's probably easier just to refer to Saum T). I really should not have done so 

Chris- The Urika deserves the Music....you will not regret it 

ATB,

Mark

I have Naim NDS/555Dr as source and Kef Blade Twos as speakers! Would Chord Music be worth using as Interconnects from NDS to Preamp  over Sarum Ts with this equipment or too subjective to say ?? 

Definitely worth using Music in your set up. I believe Alan Gibb at Chord uses Blades at home - he will of course be using Music.

Sarum T is terrific but Music is another big step upwards.

I am thinking of doing the upgrade to Chord Music ! "Just" have to clear it with the better half!  But the word "just" is a big just! 

glevethan posted:

Here is a copy and paste from my post of several weeks ago

"Music, imho, is an end game cable"

Personally, I would be happy with Naim's Top Tier System, way back in 2014!

555CD>552DR>Snaxo>3 x 500>Briks

Standard Naim IC & Hi Line with Nac A5

But, things are changing, Music, not in this life Time!

However, Sarum T with Taylon, Source & XLR.

And that old, Chord Signature Speaker Cable.

I'm in Heaven!

Just Dreaming!

Enjoy your Music, the Why!

Allante93!

PS.

TTs ~ LINN / Amps ~ Naim

ICs & Speaker Cable~ Chord

 

Allante93 posted:
glevethan posted:

Here is a copy and paste from my post of several weeks ago

"Music, imho, is an end game cable"

Personally, I would be happy with Naim's Top Tier System, way back in 2014!

555CD>552DR>Snaxo>3 x 500>Briks

Standard Naim IC & Hi Line with Nac A5

But, things are changing 

Yes - they have changed.  Today substitute Klimax DS for 555CD!

Allante93 posted:
glevethan posted:

Here is a copy and paste from my post of several weeks ago

"Music, imho, is an end game cable"

Personally, I would be happy with Naim's Top Tier System, way back in 2014!

555CD>552DR>Snaxo>3 x 500>Briks

Standard Naim IC & Hi Line with Nac A5

But, things are changing, Music, not in this life Time!

However, Sarum T with Taylon, Source & XLR.

And that old, Chord Signature Speaker Cable.

I'm in Heaven!

Just Dreaming!

Enjoy your Music, the Why!

Allante93!

PS.

TTs ~ LINN / Amps ~ Naim

ICs & Speaker Cable~ Chord

 

Did you get Sarum T Interconnect and XLRs or are you dreaming about getting them ? 

musicfan51 posted:
Allante93 posted:
glevethan posted:

Here is a copy and paste from my post of several weeks ago

"Music, imho, is an end game cable"

Personally, I would be happy with Naim's Top Tier System, way back in 2014!

555CD>552DR>Snaxo>3 x 500>Briks

Standard Naim IC & Hi Line with Nac A5

But, things are changing, Music, not in this life Time!

However, Sarum T with Taylon, Source & XLR.

And that old, Chord Signature Speaker Cable.

I'm in Heaven!

Just Dreaming!

Enjoy your Music, the Why!

Allante93!

PS.

TTs ~ LINN / Amps ~ Naim

ICs & Speaker Cable~ Chord

 

Did you get Sarum T Interconnect and XLRs or are you dreaming about getting them ? 

Dreaming!

 

lyndon posted:

So we're probably all agreed then, T is better than the Super Sarum 

does anyone know the cost of the upgrade 

1. IC din - din

2. din - xlr 

3. Speaker cables

lyndon

 

has anyone tried the tonearm cable ??

might start a new thread for that one

I read Chord can upgrade your Sarum & Sarum aray Interconnects for 40% of the Sarum Ts . Not sure if that pertains to Super Sarum Aray ! ChordMusic is a Super Sarum Aray with Taylon dielectric! 

lyndon posted:

So we're probably all agreed then, T is better than the Super Sarum 

does anyone know the cost of the upgrade 

1. IC din - din

2. din - xlr 

3. Speaker cables

lyndon

 

has anyone tried the tonearm cable ??

might start a new thread for that one

I found this online. Don't know if you can get better prices though...

 

musicfan51 posted:

I read Chord can upgrade your Sarum & Sarum aray Interconnects for 40% of the Sarum Ts . Not sure if that pertains to Super Sarum Aray ! ChordMusic is a Super Sarum Aray with Taylon dielectric! 

I think you'll find that Sarum T is Super Aray with the Taylon dielectric (and now the new Din plugs). The Chord Music, whilst still using the Taylon, also features a different conductor.

I heard the Chord Music interconnect at Cymbiosis last weekend installed between a Linn Urika (LP12 phono stage) and Naim Audio NAC552 pre-amp. I also heard the Sarum T. Whilst the Sarum T is a superb interconnect, the Music is in a whole different class.

Hi Chris,

As you no doubt know, if the Sarum T cable you will be hearing is brand new, it may require some playing time to really come into it's full potential.    I have had a new pair playing on my NAT 01 tuner for a few weeks now, and that was certainly sufficient to allow it to get into a zone of being utterly enchanting.    Now, whether this is the full potential remains to be heard....

Good listening,

Bruce

 

bdnyc posted:

As you no doubt know, if the Sarum T cable you will be hearing is brand new, it may require some playing time to really come into it's full potential. 

Hi Bruce - it is new. It arrived at Cymbiosis from Chord on Thursday  As I said it is not what you might expect, but I will hopefully add more on Tuesday.  

Chris is the first, as far as I know, to go from an SSA mains cable to a T on his Radikal. I'm really interested to hear how he gets on with it.

My experience so far of burn in with Taylon is that it far, far less painful - on Music in any case - in that it sounds great from the off and just continues to get better...

I shall be back off holidays tomorrow (sitting in the airport lounge thanks to a 6 hour delay as I write this) and hopefully my upgraded SSA cables will be waiting for me together with an upgraded Music interconnect. Looking forward to hearing them...

tara labs evolution zero cables received a lot of praise in the high end audio community. Chord music are perhaps not the last and final step.  They are very expensive, 10 k for 1m if i remember...but i found many reviews recently who praise a lot them ( high fidelity poland, stereophile, positive feedback, dagogo( tara labs gold). )

Just to share, because there is not only chord or naim cables, and all the posts on cables are always chord t, chord music, naim superlumina...

My cables are also chord , signature tuned array, and i am very pleased. But if i had nearly limitless funds, like those who can buy naim statement, i would try some different high end cables, not only chord or vertere( superlumina).

But maybe chord music is the last cable to have, who knows?

 

Keler- You make excellent points re other high end cables. One big difference , at least to me, is that Chord has a long history making/voicing cables for Naim amps . Their upper tier cables thus should, in theory, have a leg up on other cable manufacturers who do not/have not had the long history/experience with the Naim sound. Not saying that the Cardas may not sound great with Naim, just unlikely that they have a Naim amp in their workshop to play tunes through

ATB,

Mark

 

varyat posted:

Keler- You make excellent points re other high end cables. One big difference , at least to me, is that Chord has a long history making/voicing cables for Naim amps . Their upper tier cables thus should, in theory, have a leg up on other cable manufacturers who do not/have not had the long history/experience with the Naim sound. Not saying that the Cardas may not sound great with Naim, just unlikely that they have a Naim amp in their workshop to play tunes through

ATB,

Mark

 

yes, very probably, but if i had the money i would try to see. I would compare chord t, tara labs, and nordost. If not pleased with tara labs and nordost, i would return simply them.

For my inner experience, no dealer in Paris advised me to have a tube preamp with naim amp: it will not work, naim goes with naim and bla-bla-bla..... But i tried the ear 912 all tube preamp with my past nap 250. I had 252/ supercap/ 250 before. After 10 minutes listening at dealer place( with my nap 250), i knew that i had to buy the ear 912 and sell the 252/supercap: all was better to my ears, even dynamic!  fluency, soundstage, true tones, definition of the bass, and general dynamics.

Choosing chord cables is easier and less risky, but sometimes we can have very good surprises. 

varyat posted:

Keler- You make excellent points re other high end cables. One big difference , at least to me, is that Chord has a long history making/voicing cables for Naim amps . Their upper tier cables thus should, in theory, have a leg up on other cable manufacturers who do not/have not had the long history/experience with the Naim sound. Not saying that the Cardas may not sound great with Naim, just unlikely that they have a Naim amp in their workshop to play tunes through

ATB,

Mark

 

+1.... In fact the very first Chord Chrysalis was unofficially designed with help from Naim, and according to Chord went on to influence all their later interconnects.

But technologies change, and Sarum Aray is a real innovation and improvement, and so are the really excellent Vertere interconnects and cables, so plenty of choice in the market if one cannot afford the Superlumina.

To my ears Vertere cables do not sound like Superlumina as they are made of different material, insulations, voiced by different companies and designers.

 

analogmusic posted:
varyat posted:

Keler- You make excellent points re other high end cables. One big difference , at least to me, is that Chord has a long history making/voicing cables for Naim amps . Their upper tier cables thus should, in theory, have a leg up on other cable manufacturers who do not/have not had the long history/experience with the Naim sound. Not saying that the Cardas may not sound great with Naim, just unlikely that they have a Naim amp in their workshop to play tunes through

ATB,

Mark

 

+1.... In fact the very first Chord Chrysalis was unofficially designed with help from Naim, and according to Chord went on to influence all their later interconnects.

But technologies change, and Sarum Aray is a real innovation and improvement, and so are the really excellent Vertere interconnects and cables, so plenty of choice in the market if one cannot afford the Superlumina.

To my ears Vertere cables do not sound like Superlumina as they are made of different material, insulations, voiced by different companies and designers.

 

superlumina are vertere.  I wanted to point that it is not impossible to find even better cables than superlumina or even chord music.   There is no reason that naim components have to sound best only with superlumina or chord sarum or music.  Probably but not certainly.

Tara labs or nordost are used on a lot of different high end electronics, tube, solid state or hybrid. Naim audio is not a unique and specific brand, closed on itself, and unable to work with other brands. It was that at the beginning of naim, with only din to din connectors.

I think that the fear in naim community to associate other brands to naim components is still present and i think it is a little sad.

I think the point that some are trying to make is that certain cables, such as Chord and Superlumina (Vertere), have better SYNERGY and excel at similar traits as Naim components do.

A Porsche 911 Turbo is a better and faster car than a BMW M4 however if the owner wants to go fast on a rough and gravelly road the BMW might be better adept at that type of usage rather than a 911 which will do better on a smoother surface.  Better synergy with the road surface.

Chord, and others, seem to have better synergy with what Naim users are after - PRAT, musicality and timing.  Not to say that Nordost or others are not "better" cables - perhaps however they are better in other parameters and thus have better synergy with other HiFi brands.

glevethan posted:

I think the point that some are trying to make is that certain cables, such as Chord and Superlumina (Vertere), have better SYNERGY and excel at similar traits as Naim components do.

A Porsche 911 Turbo is a better and faster car than a BMW M4 however if the owner wants to go fast on a rough and gravelly road the BMW might be better adept at that type of usage rather than a 911 which will do better on a smoother surface.  Better synergy with the road surface.

Chord, and others, seem to have better synergy with what Naim users are after - PRAT, musicality and timing.  Not to say that Nordost or others are not "better" cables - perhaps however they are better in other parameters and thus have better synergy with other HiFi brands.

this synergy is the common synergy. There is no reason to not find other synergy combination.

In car auto brand, there are for example all porsche 911 car, optimized by porsche, and also RUF who is optimizing porsche with his proper philosophy and parts.

I had before nac 252/supercap/ nap 250 and went to an all tube preamp/ear 912 with the nap 250: i found a fantastic synergy between the two, with same dynamics capabilities but more true tone colors, more open soundstage and more fluency. And the ear 912 was cheaper a bit vs nac 252/supercap.

Chris Dolan posted:
bdnyc posted:

What is "not what you might expect" about this cable?    What role in your system will it be playing?    

Hi Bruce - as Dave J said it's a Sarum T mains cable for the Radikal powering my LP12 / Urika 

Chord does not make power cords (main cables) for the USA market. Wish they did ! 

There are advantages to these fine cables not being available in the US.   It is already hard enough when you realize how many nooks and crannies in a system could be improved upon by introducing better cables.

Chris,

When you have some time with the cables, perhaps you could assess the sonic impact of using these Chord AC power cords in your system context for the rest of us?

Thanks,

Bruce

 

 

bdnyc posted:

There are advantages to these fine cables not being available in the US.   It is already hard enough when you realize how many nooks and crannies in a system could be improved upon by introducing better cables.

Chris,

When you have some time with the cables, perhaps you could assess the sonic impact of using these Chord AC power cords in your system context for the rest of us?

Thanks,

Bruce

I guess my skepticism towards luxe Cables, have been based on two themes:

Firstly, I can't see spending that type of cash, for a piece of wire.

Secondly, a couple years ago, the 500 Club was rocking Nac A5.

The following Article has opened my eyes, give it a read in your spare time.

Here's the intro and url:

Why do we need Better Cables?

Continued Innovation In Audio Equipment Drives the Need For Higher Quality Cables


We should examine the work of a bunch of pioneering guys – Peter Walker, Ivor Tiefenbrun, Julian Vereker, Bob Stuart, Mark Levinson, Dan D’Agostino, Ed Meitner, Dave Wilson, Alon Wolf and Yoav Geva. Who are these guys? What did they do to awaken the interest of Joe Reynolds (Nordost), George Cardas (Cardas Audio), Dr. Ray Kimber (Kimber Kable) and Edwin van der Kley (Siltech), leading lights in the cable industry?


https://www.pressreader.com/ca...0101/281582355295062

As it pertains to my second theme, Perhaps Naim was just late to the Party.

Allante93!

PS. As it pertains to my first theme, the trickled down technologies, has been passed down to less expensive Cables.

 

Allante93 posted:
bdnyc posted:

There are advantages to these fine cables not being available in the US.   It is already hard enough when you realize how many nooks and crannies in a system could be improved upon by introducing better cables.

Chris,

When you have some time with the cables, perhaps you could assess the sonic impact of using these Chord AC power cords in your system context for the rest of us?

Thanks,

Bruce

I guess my skepticism towards luxe Cables, have been based on two themes:

Firstly, I can't see spending that type of cash, for a piece of wire.

Secondly, a couple years ago, the 500 Club was rocking Nac A5.

The following Article has opened my eyes, give it a read in your spare time.

Here's the intro and url:

Why do we need Better Cables?

Continued Innovation In Audio Equipment Drives the Need For Higher Quality Cables


We should examine the work of a bunch of pioneering guys – Peter Walker, Ivor Tiefenbrun, Julian Vereker, Bob Stuart, Mark Levinson, Dan D’Agostino, Ed Meitner, Dave Wilson, Alon Wolf and Yoav Geva. Who are these guys? What did they do to awaken the interest of Joe Reynolds (Nordost), George Cardas (Cardas Audio), Dr. Ray Kimber (Kimber Kable) and Edwin van der Kley (Siltech), leading lights in the cable industry?


https://www.pressreader.com/ca...0101/281582355295062

As it pertains to my second theme, Perhaps Naim was just late to the Party.

Allante93!

PS. As it pertains to my first theme, the trickled down technologies, has been passed down to less expensive Cables.

 

Allante93 - I suspect ('tone control' aspects of analogue signal cables aside) the need for 'better' cables comes from our increasingly congested EM environment that systems now need to operate in rather some revolutionary breakthrough in cable design (whatever the cable manufacturers say)

James

PS - Your article is blocked here so i'll have a read when i get home later. 

james n posted:

Allante93 - I suspect ('tone control' aspects of analogue signal cables aside) the need for 'better' cables comes from our increasingly congested EM environment that systems now need to operate in rather some revolutionary breakthrough in cable design (whatever the cable manufacturers say)

James

PS - Your article is blocked here so i'll have a read when i get home later. 

By all means, the central theme was based on what the pioneers brought to the Party!

Linn, the Front End

Wilson, the Back End

And of Course, Julian, the Middle!

With drastic changes being made to the Front and End, dismissing the Speakers as the Weakest Link!

Hence, the IC, now the weakest Link!

(The Vertere Guy, TM)

Pioneered by the aforementioned Naims!

Couldn't help it!

That's my weak paraphrasing of the Article.

A real eye opener fo Me!

Out!

Allante93!

 

 

Chris Dolan posted:
bdnyc posted:

What is "not what you might expect" about this cable?    What role in your system will it be playing?    

Hi Bruce - as Dave J said it's a Sarum T mains cable for the Radikal powering my LP12 / Urika 

it is certain that this power cord will upgrade the urika, but it is nearly the cost of your urika. If i were you i would sell the urika , not buy this state of the art power cord, and buy a better phono stage for all that money, like pass xp15 or einstein the turntable choice: miles away from urika( for the cost of urika and super sarum array power cord....)

Of course it is only my point of view.  This power cord will give you perhaps 10% more, but xp15, einstein, rcm....would upgrade easily 30% of the sound....

Keler Pierre posted:
Chris Dolan posted:
bdnyc posted:

What is "not what you might expect" about this cable?    What role in your system will it be playing?    

Hi Bruce - as Dave J said it's a Sarum T mains cable for the Radikal powering my LP12 / Urika 

it is certain that this power cord will upgrade the urika, but it is nearly the cost of your urika. If i were you i would sell the urika , not buy this state of the art power cord, and buy a better phono stage for all that money, like pass xp15 or einstein the turntable choice: miles away from urika( for the cost of urika and super sarum array power cord....)

Of course it is only my point of view.  This power cord will give you perhaps 10% more, but xp15, einstein, rcm....would upgrade easily 30% of the sound....

but it is not a wrong buy, i didn't say that.  This power cord can upgrade every component and is a good step vs powerline.  So you can also upgrade the urika, if you want, after.

Keler Pierre posted:
Chris Dolan posted:
bdnyc posted:

What is "not what you might expect" about this cable?    What role in your system will it be playing?    

Hi Bruce - as Dave J said it's a Sarum T mains cable for the Radikal powering my LP12 / Urika 

it is certain that this power cord will upgrade the urika, but it is nearly the cost of your urika. If i were you i would sell the urika , not buy this state of the art power cord, and buy a better phono stage for all that money, like pass xp15 or einstein the turntable choice: miles away from urika( for the cost of urika and super sarum array power cord....)

Of course it is only my point of view.  This power cord will give you perhaps 10% more, but xp15, einstein, rcm....would upgrade easily 30% of the sound....

Your percentage improvements are entirely speculative. My own experience is that a Sarum SA is a significant improvement in terms of sheer musicality. The T version will only add to that. I have also heard a prototype Music mains lead and it's....

Sorry to bump you guys, I have had the pleasure of the Sarum T Mains cable.

I pugged it into a mains block and then fed the Hifi System from the mains block on regular mains cables.

Conclusion I was astonished how the noise floor dropped well worth the money and cheap for the results.

I went on to test a Torus which gave still better performance, but for the money the Sarum T well worth the upgrade.

Worthy of a test if you have noise in your electric.

Tested on speaker system and headphones. 

When Chord first introduced Sarum ,I had a power cord made up for my Audience PDC Power Block . All other power cords were Naim Powerlines to the boxes. I have a dedicated mains for the Audience. At that time, I did not perceive a huge lift in SQ from the Sarum power cord. This is probably due to the combination of quality  electric supply in my area / the excellent Audience PDC and the Powerlines already were providing a nice , clean supply of electrons .

If you are in an area with poor/noisy mains then the inclusion of an uber power cable may provide better results but the biggest bang for the buck is still creating a dedicated mains supply for all of your boxes, imo.

ATB,

Mark

bdnyc posted:

Chris,

When you have some time with the cables, perhaps you could assess the sonic impact of using these Chord AC power cords in your system context for the rest of us?

Thanks,

Bruce

Will do Bruce, it has certainly been interesting but it would be premature to say more now 

glevethan posted:

I'm going to assume everyone who is testing these new cables already has a dedicated Mains line for their stereo system

I'm from the School, if it ain't broke, why attempt to fix it!

With that being said, I've found my Naim amps, to be temperamental, and I have Three of them!

Some days, I have to strain, to see if the system is powered up, and other days, I can Hum along with the amps.

When the Hum is noticeably present, usually when the electrical grid is peaking, I power off in sequence.

With Volume down:

Cdx2, HCDR, Amp1, Amp2, then Amp3.

Then the process is repeated, powering the System.

The noise associated with the source was reduced after being service.

on a scale from 1-10 with ten being unbearable, a one is barely distinguishable:

282~0

Cdx2~1

PS~ 3

Tighter Thud when powering the later amps!

2015 250~5

2012 Amps~5.5

With that being said, dedicated mains can't solve one's humming issues, if the grid is dirty!

FOOT TAPPER, has appeared, to remedy the Humming Blues.

The downside the yellow box hums at a 10, the Upside, its outside!

 
Clean up the electrical Signal, BEFORE ENTERING THE home.
 
Allante93!
 

Allante

Sorry however if you are a Naim user, especially here in the States, there is nothing you can do about the transformer hum.

Consider it part of the admission ticket

 

PS  PLEASE - do not try to use any third party boxes to filter the mains - they will only kill the sound

Learn to embrace the Hummmmmmm

Airlink offers a range of "domestic", portable BPS that you may choose to put next to your hifi system.  This is a much easier, quicker option than installing one of their hard wired ones.  However, I didn't want to replace humming Naim transformers with a humming Airlink one in the living room, so here is ours in situ:

Airlink BPS5120 Balanced Power Supply in situ

 

There is very little difference in cost between the two options, but the hard wiring option ensures that the BPS is away from the living room.  It also enabled the installation of an upgraded radial supply circuit with 10mm2 cabling.

 @glevethan check it out!

Foot Tappers Thread!

Allante93!

Dave J posted:
Keler Pierre posted:
Chris Dolan posted:
bdnyc posted:

What is "not what you might expect" about this cable?    What role in your system will it be playing?    

Hi Bruce - as Dave J said it's a Sarum T mains cable for the Radikal powering my LP12 / Urika 

it is certain that this power cord will upgrade the urika, but it is nearly the cost of your urika. If i were you i would sell the urika , not buy this state of the art power cord, and buy a better phono stage for all that money, like pass xp15 or einstein the turntable choice: miles away from urika( for the cost of urika and super sarum array power cord....)

Of course it is only my point of view.  This power cord will give you perhaps 10% more, but xp15, einstein, rcm....would upgrade easily 30% of the sound....

Your percentage improvements are entirely speculative. My own experience is that a Sarum SA is a significant improvement in terms of sheer musicality. The T version will only add to that. I have also heard a prototype Music mains lead and it's....

all is also relative, an urika remains an urika, even with a 10 k power cord.  A power cord and interconnect reveals the potential of a component, but there are limits. You will not put a chord music at 6k on a nait 5i.....

I guess with all the claims, counter-claims, hype, existence or otherwise of dedicated mains, the 'suitability' of our hifi chain (to realise the benefit from better cables), the 'credibility' of feedback on here, the cost of these exotic cables and other imponderables, the only sensible way to make any kind of personal judgement on the VFM these bits of wire offer is to do a lengthy home demo. I am 'guilty' of spending, some might say a 'disproportionate' amount of money on bits of wire. But this was an informed decision based on lengthy home demos.

I will accept here and now that some outside of the UK may not be able to arrange a home demo of some of the cables discussed here. All I would say to those is, 'if you can't try then don't buy'.

Caveat emptor!

nigelb posted:

I guess with all the claims, counter-claims, hype, existence or otherwise of dedicated mains, the 'suitability' of our hifi chain (to realise the benefit from better cables), the 'credibility' of feedback on here, the cost of these exotic cables and other imponderables, the only sensible way to make any kind of personal judgement on the VFM these bits of wire offer is to do a lengthy home demo. I am 'guilty' of spending, some might say a 'disproportionate' amount of money on bits of wire. But this was an informed decision based on lengthy home demos.

I will accept here and now that some outside of the UK may not be able to arrange a home demo of some of the cables discussed here. All I would say to those is, 'if you can't try then don't buy'.

Caveat emptor!

disproportionate is an appropriate term:   spending the same amount of money than the component itself on a power cord is non sense. It will upgrade the sound of this component for sure, but not as much, in general, as a component itself twice more expensive.  You can put a super sarum array on a nac 202, it will not sound as good than nac 282. Or a nait 5i with that cord will not sound better than a supernait. In each case the amount of money spent is the same.

In the same logic, you will not put a 10k cartridge on a 400 GBP turntable.

I was not speaking referring to your personal choice, i don't know it. But in general and also referring to the case of super sarum array on a urika phono stage.

Keler Pierre posted:
nigelb posted:

I guess with all the claims......

I will accept here and now that some outside of the UK may not be able to arrange a home demo of some of the cables discussed here. All I would say to those is, 'if you can't try then don't buy'.

Caveat emptor!

disproportionate is an appropriate term:  

I agree with both of gentleman:

Yes, Caveat emptor!

However, as the Frenchman suggest, logic must enter the equation at some point.

Repeat, a good read:

"We should examine the work of a bunch of pioneering guys – Peter Walker, Ivor Tiefenbrun, Julian Vereker, Bob Stuart, Mark Levinson, Dan D’Agostino, Ed Meitner, Dave Wilson, Alon Wolf and Yoav Geva. Who are these guys? What did they do to awaken the interest of Joe Reynolds (Nordost), George Cardas (Cardas Audio), Dr. Ray Kimber (Kimber Kable) and Edwin van der Kley (Siltech), leading lights in the cable industry?"

https://www.pressreader.com/ca...0101/281582355295062

In Summary the three digit Cables manufactured in today industries, are far more advance than the three digit Cables Ten years ago.

Point and Case: 

Naim's Hi Line vs Chords Signature~10 years

Naim's SL vs Chords ST ~ 3 years

Not to mention the Pioneers:

Joe Reynolds (Nordost), George Cardas (Cardas Audio), Dr. Ray Kimber (Kimber Kable) and Edwin van der Kley (Siltech), leading lights in the cable industry!

Give it a read, in your spare time, all of 5 minutes and 42 seconds!

Allante93!

"For those familiar with Vertere’s infamous line of products this is big news. The company has developed a reputation for crafting the most technically precise analog replay components in the world. As a result the price is often beyond the reach of even the most dedicated audiophiles. To give an idea, Robb Report recently ran an article called: “Today’s Top Tonearms Can Cost as Much as a Car.” The main feature was the Vertere Reference Tonearm coming in at $36,000 USD."

Average Joe, a Success Story:

House, a Cool $ 1.5 Million. i.e cheapskate!

Car, a modest 350K USD

Veretere's mains Cable, $3,127.96 USD

When it's all said and done, I wonder how it sounds!

Sure wouldn't mind trading places!

Enjoy your Music!

Allante93!

First of all that was a really enjoyable article. Thanks for the link.

The other comment I would like to make is that there remains a huge amount of scepticism regarding the improvements that can come from better cables, particularly if they are not made by Naim. My own experiences have been with Chord Sarum and they have been massively in excess of 10%. I think there are too many individuals who for a variety of reasons are blinkered to the idea that a wire can improve things as much if not more than a box! I was sceptical but could not wipe the grin off my face that appeared within a couple of minutes of upgrading just one cable (552 mains) to Chord Sarum Tuned. Speculative comments from people who have never heard the differences are unhelpful.

Bryce Curdy posted:

First of all that was a really enjoyable article. Thanks for the link.

The other comment I would like to make is that there remains a huge amount of scepticism regarding the improvements that can come from better cables, particularly if they are not made by Naim. My own experiences have been with Chord Sarum and they have been massively in excess of 10%. I think there are too many individuals who for a variety of reasons are blinkered to the idea that a wire can improve things as much if not more than a box! I was sceptical but could not wipe the grin off my face that appeared within a couple of minutes of upgrading just one cable (552 mains) to Chord Sarum Tuned. Speculative comments from people who have never heard the differences are unhelpful.

Well, Shut up!

I'm Broke! LOL.....

All jokes aside, I'm glad you enjoyed the Article!

Hats off to the Pioneers, that inspire the Hi-Fi Industry:

Front End~ Linn, 

Middle~ Naim

Back End~ Wilson

And the new weakest Link Guys:

Joe Reynolds (Nordost), George Cardas (Cardas Audio), Dr. Ray Kimber (Kimber Kable) and Edwin van der Kley (Siltech), leading lights in the cable industry! 

But to your point, when I do get some extra Cash, I'm thinking Chord ST & Signature Speaker Cable, Ouch!!!!!!

Allante93!

 

Bryce Curdy posted:

First of all that was a really enjoyable article. Thanks for the link.

The other comment I would like to make is that there remains a huge amount of scepticism regarding the improvements that can come from better cables, particularly if they are not made by Naim. My own experiences have been with Chord Sarum and they have been massively in excess of 10%. I think there are too many individuals who for a variety of reasons are blinkered to the idea that a wire can improve things as much if not more than a box! I was sceptical but could not wipe the grin off my face that appeared within a couple of minutes of upgrading just one cable (552 mains) to Chord Sarum Tuned. Speculative comments from people who have never heard the differences are unhelpful.

in your case it is more understandable:  going from powerline, witch is even a bit expensive for what it is, for me, to the super sarum array main cord on the 552 is giving the 552 to reveal all his potential. I would even put a 5 k power cord on the 552.

But in case of a component, like the urika phono stage, which costs the same as the sarum array main cord, i disagree totally. sorry. 

Chris Dolan posted:

I am desperately trying to resist the temptation to try the demo Chord Sarum Super ARAY power cable on my 552PS before the cable goes back, and I'm not normally very successful at resisting temptation 

Oh go on, Chris! Go on!

Or even the Sarum T...

For all this talk of super expensive mains cables 

i assume everyone contemplating this has a dedicated CU and separate spurs from this feeding the Hi-Fi alone as this will have a bigger impact in reducing noise 

10mm cables I'm not so sure if these are really necessary given the electrical loads and the voltage drop of a 230v signal in a domestic setting will be nothing 

also the permissible voltage supply will be between 216 - 253v

also if we need to spend 2K on a mains cable then what is the Supercap up to ? It's there to provide a low volt DC supply, surely a 4.5k power supply shouldn't need a 2K cable just to connect it to a fluctuating mains

lyndon

 

lyndon posted:

For all this talk of super expensive mains cables 

i assume everyone contemplating this has a dedicated CU and separate spurs from this feeding the Hi-Fi alone as this will have a bigger impact in reducing noise 

10mm cables I'm not so sure if these are really necessary given the electrical loads and the voltage drop of a 230v signal in a domestic setting will be nothing 

also the permissible voltage supply will be between 216 - 253v

also if we need to spend 2K on a mains cable then what is the Supercap up to ? It's there to provide a low volt DC supply, surely a 4.5k power supply shouldn't need a 2K cable just to connect it to a fluctuating mains

lyndon

 

someone above replaced the powerline on the 552 ps by the super sarum array power cord , 3 times more expensive, and heard an immediate upgrade in sound quality.  I believe easily in that.  But not in putting this cord on entry level components...it is more logic to upgrade this component itself first. You will not buy bugatti veyron tires for a fiat punto!

"I am desperately trying to resist the temptation to try the demo Chord Sarum Super ARAY power cable on my 552PS before the cable goes back, and I'm not normally very successful at resisting temptation."

Hi Chris,

Not that you are likely to need any extra advice since you have a great dealer local to you, but I would encourage you to at least experiment with this cable on other components in your system while you have it in your home.   Sometimes one link in the chain will be the most uplifted by a better cord; power or signal interconnect.    This is highly system dependent, and practice in your system will always trump theory.    So, I would try it on anything you are curious about, including the pre-amp power supply, but I would also try it on your power amp so you can hear whether it offers a similar set of improvements throughout your system, or if one use for the AC power cord really stands out- for you.

Good luck,

Bruce

 

 

 

 

Chris Dolan posted:
bdnyc posted:

What is "not what you might expect" about this cable?    What role in your system will it be playing?    

Hi Bruce - as Dave J said it's a Sarum T mains cable for the Radikal powering my LP12 / Urika 

 

Chris,

is the optional super slimline IEC plug specification as good as [or better than] the standard porky pig fitment?

Debs

 

 

Clive B posted

Oh go on, Chris! Go on!

If you insist  Still acclimatising to the T at the moment 

naim_nymph posted:

is the optional super slimline IEC plug specification as good as [or better than] the standard porky pig fitment? 

 

I would suspect that standard phat plug is better but, as Clive says, it does not fit the Klimax Radikal.

I did do a phat plug Sarum Tuned ARAY power cable v Powerline comparison on an Akurate Radikal a few years ago, and preferred the Chord, but not enough to buy it.

Chris,

a couple of years ago i compared my naim powerline vs standard Linn supplied lead vs ubiquitous cheapo computer kettle lead on my then Akurate Radikal; and noticed no difference what-so-ever : )

However, the thing about the Klimax radikal is one can only compare leads which come with a slimline IEC plug; which exempts any audiophile quality power lines that usually come equipped with power improved special posh porky pig IEC plugs. This is why i question the slimline plug in your pic, it looks in your above picture  [albeit in the wrapper]  like a very typical standard and ordinary IEC plug which may compromise the performance and ability of the Sarum T power lead compared to one with the proper job (?) 

Debs

analogmusic posted:

Not sure I can agree with that, the powerline is quite an improvement over the standard Naim power cable.

I note that's not what you compared it to though.

My system comprises of 3 naim power supplies and 1 Linn Klimax Radical; which totals the need for 4 mains connections but i only have 2 naim powerlines.

Having tried many configurations i find the best way that works on my system is using the two powerlines for the 552 and 500, and the CDS and Linn Rad can simply make do [for the time being] with a more standard kettle lead arrangement. I'm sure more improvements are possible by the spending of loads more money : )

Have anyone tried as I have the sarum t with a mains block connector ?

Several expensive mains cables are not needed as you could use standard shielded or the standard kettle cables after the mains block.

It's a cheaper alternative and problery no difference in SQ ........?

Clive101 posted:

Have anyone tried as I have the sarum t with a mains block connector ?

Several expensive mains cables are not needed as you could use standard shielded or the standard kettle cables after the mains block.

It's a cheaper alternative and problery no difference in SQ ........?

If that were so then why place it between the wall socket and the mains distribution block? Why not the last 1.2m before the mains socket? Whilst I accept that mains leads do seem to have an effect on audio performance, I remain rather sceptical as to why the last metre or so should make any difference when the rest of the mains is wired with standard twin and earth cable. 

The audio impact of changing interconnect or speaker cable is (to my ears, at least) more obviously beneficial. That having been said, I would be interested if Chord would consider making a cable to fit between Radikal and Urika. 

I suppose you could add it before the mains socket ( altough i have not tried ) but as the lead is suppied with the correct connections a mains block suits better connection wise and has more outlet sockets.

The lead stops mains electric noise and if other leads are placed after the chord sarum in theory they could be polluted with rf that is why I suggested shield cables which are cheaper.

I have a Sarum T loom, the mains cable made a huge difference in fact a totally different system that is why I suggested to try with a mains block as the whole system would benifet with one mains lead, the extra mile would be change the other mains cables with shield mains as a precaution against RF issues..?

CHORD can make any cable just ask them.

Get a demo first as your system may not be impacted as mine is but for me in my system the difference is monumental 

I am using a Torus power supply now as I have slightly  better performance but did cost more but gave me other features as well so went down the Torus power route.

 

ryder. posted:

As much as I like Chord as a company (great customer service from Nigel as well), I have a feeling that this Taylon thing is more toward marketing than anything else. The material is nonexistent when I run a search on it.

It's Chord's name. You need to hear it.

ryder. posted:
Dave J posted:

It's Chord's name. You need to hear it.

I'd be tempted if my gear is from the 500 series. As it currently stands, the Chord Sarum T is too good for my system. I am sure it's fantastic though.

agree 100%, a cable can't be more than half the component itself....a powerline for nac 282 and nap 250, chord sarum t for nap 500 and chord music for the statement.

Because in the case of sarum t for nac 282,  the 252 with powerlite is better.

Keler Pierre posted:
ryder. posted:

I'd be tempted if my gear is from the 500 series. As it currently stands, the Chord Sarum T is too good for my system. I am sure it's fantastic though.

agree 100%, a cable can't be more than half the component itself....a powerline for nac 282 and nap 250, chord sarum t for nap 500 and chord music for the statement.

Because in the case of sarum t for nac 282,  the 252 with powerlite is better.

It's all relevant, ask Joe!

"For those familiar with Vertere’s infamous line of products this is big news. The company has developed a reputation for crafting the most technically precise analog replay components in the world. As a result the price is often beyond the reach of even the most dedicated audiophiles. To give an idea, Robb Report recently ran an article called: “Today’s Top Tonearms Can Cost as Much as a Car.” The main feature was the Vertere Reference Tonearm coming in at $36,000 USD."

Average Joe, a Success Story:

House, a Cool $ 1.5 Million. i.e cheapskate!

Car, a modest 350K USD

Veretere's mains Cable, $3,127.96 USD

When it's all said and done, I wonder how it sounds!

Sure wouldn't mind trading places!

Enjoy your Music!

Allante93!

Keler Pierre posted:

Because in the case of sarum t for nac 282,  the 252 with powerlite is better.

Is that based on actually listening to the two alternatives, presumably you are referring to the Sarum T on the source to preamp or do you mean a power cable?

Either way, although I confess that I have not done that comparison but have owned all of the bits except powerline lite (so will assume poweline full fat on the SupercapDR for the 252) or Sarum T interconnect (so read SSA) though I do have a power cable - and assuming a SupercapDR on the 282 as well, I think that I would probably find the 282 combination preferable 

I do think that the differences are better heard with a 552 though  

analogmusic posted:

well it's still a 2100 GBP cable.

having heard Superlumina Speaker cable, DIN/XLR and then the Super Aray RCA to RCA... I would say one should listen to the Superlumina first.

Having heard all those, too, I'd say you absolutely need to do a comparison between them. They are very different in what they do. 

Chris Dolan posted:
Keler Pierre posted:

Because in the case of sarum t for nac 282,  the 252 with powerlite is better.

Is that based on actually listening to the two alternatives, presumably you are referring to the Sarum T on the source to preamp or do you mean a power cable?

Either way, although I confess that I have not done that comparison but have owned all of the bits except powerline lite (so will assume poweline full fat on the SupercapDR for the 252) or Sarum T interconnect (so read SSA) though I do have a power cable - and assuming a SupercapDR on the 282 as well, I think that I would probably find the 282 combination preferable 

I do think that the differences are better heard with a 552 though  

The PL Lite on my 282's SuperCap Dr and NAPSC opened up the soundstage more and made instruments (orchestral in particular) stand out better just like a real concert where even a tambourine can be heard (Albert Hall Tchkovsky Gala on 20 June). I am testing 5m Superlumina speaker cable which just builds further on the improvement trend. I have Witch Hat Din to XLR and SL IC on the nDAC to 282, and Rega Couple 2 on the Aria to 282. £800 Chord on Aria did not work.

Phil

I've been running Sarum T streaming cables - upgraded from Sarum TA, so, technically, they were 2 generations old - over the past week from Melco to switch and switch to "the wall" (I'm using a Chord Music from Melco to the KDSM) and I have to say that the improvement to Tidal steaming and internet radio is huge.  Tidal in particular had been "fine" before but, understandably, not a patch on ripped or downloaded music. However, now, it's a much more acceptable proposition - still not as good of course, but way, way better than before.  It'll probably result in me buying less and using Tidal, especially for new releases, rather more.

 

Chris Dolan posted:
Keler Pierre posted:

Because in the case of sarum t for nac 282,  the 252 with powerlite is better.

Is that based on actually listening to the two alternatives, presumably you are referring to the Sarum T on the source to preamp or do you mean a power cable?

Either way, although I confess that I have not done that comparison but have owned all of the bits except powerline lite (so will assume poweline full fat on the SupercapDR for the 252) or Sarum T interconnect (so read SSA) though I do have a power cable - and assuming a SupercapDR on the 282 as well, I think that I would probably find the 282 combination preferable 

I do think that the differences are better heard with a 552 though  

i was referring to the power cord.  I wanted just to say that if someone has a nac282 /supercap and want to add a sarum t power cord on it, for quite the same money i would prefer to buy the 252 with powerlite,  which, for me, would sound better than 282/supercap/ sarum t power cord.  I have not tested, but i am at 99% sure of it.  Of course it is only my opinion...

Keler Pierre posted:
Chris Dolan posted:
Keler Pierre posted:

Because in the case of sarum t for nac 282,  the 252 with powerlite is better.

Is that based on actually listening to the two alternatives, presumably you are referring to the Sarum T on the source to preamp or do you mean a power cable?

Either way, although I confess that I have not done that comparison but have owned all of the bits except powerline lite (so will assume poweline full fat on the SupercapDR for the 252) or Sarum T interconnect (so read SSA) though I do have a power cable - and assuming a SupercapDR on the 282 as well, I think that I would probably find the 282 combination preferable 

I do think that the differences are better heard with a 552 though  

i was referring to the power cord.  I wanted just to say that if someone has a nac282 /supercap and want to add a sarum t power cord on it, for quite the same money i would prefer to buy the 252 with powerlite,  which, for me, would sound better than 282/supercap/ sarum t power cord.  I have not tested, but i am at 99% sure of it.  Of course it is only my opinion...

It would worth having a go then! No point in speculating - opinions have little value unless they are informed...

Dave J posted:
Keler Pierre posted:
Chris Dolan posted:
Keler Pierre posted:

Because in the case of sarum t for nac 282,  the 252 with powerlite is better.

Is that based on actually listening to the two alternatives, presumably you are referring to the Sarum T on the source to preamp or do you mean a power cable?

Either way, although I confess that I have not done that comparison but have owned all of the bits except powerline lite (so will assume poweline full fat on the SupercapDR for the 252) or Sarum T interconnect (so read SSA) though I do have a power cable - and assuming a SupercapDR on the 282 as well, I think that I would probably find the 282 combination preferable 

I do think that the differences are better heard with a 552 though  

i was referring to the power cord.  I wanted just to say that if someone has a nac282 /supercap and want to add a sarum t power cord on it, for quite the same money i would prefer to buy the 252 with powerlite,  which, for me, would sound better than 282/supercap/ sarum t power cord.  I have not tested, but i am at 99% sure of it.  Of course it is only my opinion...

It would worth having a go then! No point in speculating - opinions have little value unless they are informed...

well understood my captain!    i made my opinion with 20 years experience in audio and with a lot of naim gear that i have owned and own. I had 202, 282/hicap , 252, and now ear 912. Have tried powerlines, isotek, kharma power cords with precedent gear.  I doubt all the opinions here are done only by exact testing....but experience can give an idea on what upgrades we can expect with power cords , interconnects, better dac or ps, etc....

But if you want to buy a 10k power cord on a nait5i, why not, it is your money man!

Keler Pierre posted:
Dave J posted:
Keler Pierre posted:
Chris Dolan posted:
Keler Pierre posted:

Because in the case of sarum t for nac 282,  the 252 with powerlite is better.

Is that based on actually listening to the two alternatives, presumably you are referring to the Sarum T on the source to preamp or do you mean a power cable?

Either way, although I confess that I have not done that comparison but have owned all of the bits except powerline lite (so will assume poweline full fat on the SupercapDR for the 252) or Sarum T interconnect (so read SSA) though I do have a power cable - and assuming a SupercapDR on the 282 as well, I think that I would probably find the 282 combination preferable 

I do think that the differences are better heard with a 552 though  

i was referring to the power cord.  I wanted just to say that if someone has a nac282 /supercap and want to add a sarum t power cord on it, for quite the same money i would prefer to buy the 252 with powerlite,  which, for me, would sound better than 282/supercap/ sarum t power cord.  I have not tested, but i am at 99% sure of it.  Of course it is only my opinion...

It would worth having a go then! No point in speculating - opinions have little value unless they are informed...

well understood my captain!    i made my opinion with 20 years experience in audio and with a lot of naim gear that i have owned and own. I had 202, 282/hicap , 252, and now ear 912. Have tried powerlines, isotek, kharma power cords with precedent gear.  I doubt all the opinions here are done only by exact testing....but experience can give an idea on what upgrades we can expect with power cords , interconnects, better dac or ps, etc....

But if you want to buy a 10k power cord on a nait5i, why not, it is your money man!

10k power cord!?! Your dealer's ripping you off! ��

Keler Pierre posted:

i was referring to the power cord.  I wanted just to say that if someone has a nac282 /supercap and want to add a sarum t power cord on it, for quite the same money i would prefer to buy the 252 with powerlite,  which, for me, would sound better than 282/supercap/ sarum t power cord.  I have not tested, but i am at 99% sure of it.  Of course it is only my opinion...

I prefer the 252 to the 282 in simple terms, but I have heard systems where the 282 sounds better. The source is obviously gong to have a signifcant bearing on the outcome. Also it might actually be better to put the better power chord on a different bit of kit - usually the power amp, perhaps surprisingly.

I expect that I will have the chance to try this fairly soon, and if I do will let you know the result. 

Dave J posted:
Keler Pierre posted:
Dave J posted:
Keler Pierre posted:
Chris Dolan posted:
Keler Pierre posted:

Because in the case of sarum t for nac 282,  the 252 with powerlite is better.

Is that based on actually listening to the two alternatives, presumably you are referring to the Sarum T on the source to preamp or do you mean a power cable?

Either way, although I confess that I have not done that comparison but have owned all of the bits except powerline lite (so will assume poweline full fat on the SupercapDR for the 252) or Sarum T interconnect (so read SSA) though I do have a power cable - and assuming a SupercapDR on the 282 as well, I think that I would probably find the 282 combination preferable 

I do think that the differences are better heard with a 552 though  

i was referring to the power cord.  I wanted just to say that if someone has a nac282 /supercap and want to add a sarum t power cord on it, for quite the same money i would prefer to buy the 252 with powerlite,  which, for me, would sound better than 282/supercap/ sarum t power cord.  I have not tested, but i am at 99% sure of it.  Of course it is only my opinion...

It would worth having a go then! No point in speculating - opinions have little value unless they are informed...

well understood my captain!    i made my opinion with 20 years experience in audio and with a lot of naim gear that i have owned and own. I had 202, 282/hicap , 252, and now ear 912. Have tried powerlines, isotek, kharma power cords with precedent gear.  I doubt all the opinions here are done only by exact testing....but experience can give an idea on what upgrades we can expect with power cords , interconnects, better dac or ps, etc....

But if you want to buy a 10k power cord on a nait5i, why not, it is your money man!

10k power cord!?! Your dealer's ripping you off! ��

it was an exaggeration but 10k power cord exist.  nac 282 costs 5k GBP, chord sarum t power cord costs 2k, so around 40% of the 282. nac 252 costs 6,3 k.  

Keler Pierre posted:
Dave J posted:
Keler Pierre posted:
Dave J posted:
Keler Pierre posted:
Chris Dolan posted:
Keler Pierre posted:

Because in the case of sarum t for nac 282,  the 252 with powerlite is better.

Is that based on actually listening to the two alternatives, presumably you are referring to the Sarum T on the source to preamp or do you mean a power cable?

Either way, although I confess that I have not done that comparison but have owned all of the bits except powerline lite (so will assume poweline full fat on the SupercapDR for the 252) or Sarum T interconnect (so read SSA) though I do have a power cable - and assuming a SupercapDR on the 282 as well, I think that I would probably find the 282 combination preferable 

I do think that the differences are better heard with a 552 though  

i was referring to the power cord.  I wanted just to say that if someone has a nac282 /supercap and want to add a sarum t power cord on it, for quite the same money i would prefer to buy the 252 with powerlite,  which, for me, would sound better than 282/supercap/ sarum t power cord.  I have not tested, but i am at 99% sure of it.  Of course it is only my opinion...

It would worth having a go then! No point in speculating - opinions have little value unless they are informed...

well understood my captain!    i made my opinion with 20 years experience in audio and with a lot of naim gear that i have owned and own. I had 202, 282/hicap , 252, and now ear 912. Have tried powerlines, isotek, kharma power cords with precedent gear.  I doubt all the opinions here are done only by exact testing....but experience can give an idea on what upgrades we can expect with power cords , interconnects, better dac or ps, etc....

But if you want to buy a 10k power cord on a nait5i, why not, it is your money man!

10k power cord!?! Your dealer's ripping you off! ��

it was an exaggeration but 10k power cord exist.  nac 282 costs 5k GBP, chord sarum t power cord costs 2k, so around 40% of the 282. nac 252 costs 6,3 k.  

Well there you go.

But, actually, given the fairly widespread antipathy towards the 252 on the forum, that might be an interesting comparison. Maybe not clear cut?

Dave J posted:
Keler Pierre posted:
Dave J posted:
Keler Pierre posted:
Dave J posted:
Keler Pierre posted:
Chris Dolan posted:
Keler Pierre posted:

Because in the case of sarum t for nac 282,  the 252 with powerlite is better.

Is that based on actually listening to the two alternatives, presumably you are referring to the Sarum T on the source to preamp or do you mean a power cable?

Either way, although I confess that I have not done that comparison but have owned all of the bits except powerline lite (so will assume poweline full fat on the SupercapDR for the 252) or Sarum T interconnect (so read SSA) though I do have a power cable - and assuming a SupercapDR on the 282 as well, I think that I would probably find the 282 combination preferable 

I do think that the differences are better heard with a 552 though  

i was referring to the power cord.  I wanted just to say that if someone has a nac282 /supercap and want to add a sarum t power cord on it, for quite the same money i would prefer to buy the 252 with powerlite,  which, for me, would sound better than 282/supercap/ sarum t power cord.  I have not tested, but i am at 99% sure of it.  Of course it is only my opinion...

It would worth having a go then! No point in speculating - opinions have little value unless they are informed...

well understood my captain!    i made my opinion with 20 years experience in audio and with a lot of naim gear that i have owned and own. I had 202, 282/hicap , 252, and now ear 912. Have tried powerlines, isotek, kharma power cords with precedent gear.  I doubt all the opinions here are done only by exact testing....but experience can give an idea on what upgrades we can expect with power cords , interconnects, better dac or ps, etc....

But if you want to buy a 10k power cord on a nait5i, why not, it is your money man!

10k power cord!?! Your dealer's ripping you off! ��

it was an exaggeration but 10k power cord exist.  nac 282 costs 5k GBP, chord sarum t power cord costs 2k, so around 40% of the 282. nac 252 costs 6,3 k.  

Well there you go.

But, actually, given the fairly widespread antipathy towards the 252 on the forum, that might be an interesting comparison. Maybe not clear cut?

widespread antipathy towards the 252?   a minority prefer the 282, it is what i often see on the forum.  like a minority prefer the 250 vs 300.....so if you are in this camp, i can understand putting a sarum t cord on 282.

As for me, i had the 282/hicap and after a 252 : the upgrade in sound quality was immediate for me.  But finally the 252 had not stayed because i discovered the ear 912 preamp which gave me a better tonal balance and fluency, with same dynamics.

But the 252 opened the soundstage, gave more focus and bass vs the 282/hicap and i have not heard something missing .

 

 

Dave J posted:

Yep, widespread. I went from a 52 to a 552 so never got involved in the discussion but anyway, as you've jumped ship, well...

i see you have chord music streaming cable:  are you satisfied with this cable?  what was your ethernet cable before?  i am curious about investing in chord ethernet later. I had audioquest diamond but sold it and have 2 vodka instead. Maybe i will upgrade the last ethernet to my nds with signature tuned array.  I have signature tuned array interconnects and phono, perhaps i will upgrade to super sarum too, only interconnects .

Keler Pierre posted:
Dave J posted:

Yep, widespread. I went from a 52 to a 552 so never got involved in the discussion but anyway, as you've jumped ship, well...

i see you have chord music streaming cable:  are you satisfied with this cable?  what was your ethernet cable before?  i am curious about investing in chord ethernet later. I had audioquest diamond but sold it and have 2 vodka instead. Maybe i will upgrade the last ethernet to my nds with signature tuned array.  I have signature tuned array interconnects and phono, perhaps i will upgrade to super sarum too, only interconnects .

I would like to make a small suggestion.

Think of changing cables as options to see if they make a difference in your system and if that difference constitutes, to you, an upgrade.  Calling any change an upgrade based on the price of the component suggests expectation bias, whereas an open mind might be a better approach.  I've heard some good expensive cables, but I've also heard some bad ones.

Keler Pierre posted:
Dave J posted:

Yep, widespread. I went from a 52 to a 552 so never got involved in the discussion but anyway, as you've jumped ship, well...

i see you have chord music streaming cable:  are you satisfied with this cable?  what was your ethernet cable before?  i am curious about investing in chord ethernet later. I had audioquest diamond but sold it and have 2 vodka instead. Maybe i will upgrade the last ethernet to my nds with signature tuned array.  I have signature tuned array interconnects and phono, perhaps i will upgrade to super sarum too, only interconnects .

I'm delighted with it, it wasn't on the agenda until I heard the damned thing.

sunbeamgls posted:

I would like to make a small suggestion.

Think of changing cables as options to see if they make a difference in your system and if that difference constitutes, to you, an upgrade.  Calling any change an upgrade based on the price of the component suggests expectation bias, whereas an open mind might be a better approach.  I've heard some good expensive cables, but I've also heard some bad ones.

The perception of an upgrade based on the price of any component or cables is certainly a valid observation. It may not necessarily happen all the time but the tendency to favour a particular component or cable and regarding it as a superior design will be prevalent. I have said before that a (fixed) preconceived idea of a better or superior sound from a costlier component or cable may be formed even before a listening session. There is a possibility the impressions may not change after a listen as the preconception might have been firmly entrenched in the mind of the user.

Keler Pierre posted:
Dave J posted:

Yep, widespread. I went from a 52 to a 552 so never got involved in the discussion but anyway, as you've jumped ship, well...

i see you have chord music streaming cable:  are you satisfied with this cable?  what was your ethernet cable before?  i am curious about investing in chord ethernet later. I had audioquest diamond but sold it and have 2 vodka instead. Maybe i will upgrade the last ethernet to my nds with signature tuned array.  I have signature tuned array interconnects and phono, perhaps i will upgrade to super sarum too, only interconnects .

I went from an Audioquest Vodka Ethernet cable on my NDS/555Dr to a Chord Indigo Aray And the Indigo Aray was vastly better. I can't imagine how much better the Chord Music Ethernet is! I have heard the Chord Music analog RCA Interconnect compared to Sarum super Aray and it was a huge difference !  Love to hear what the Chord Music or Sarum T Ethernet sounds like . 

 

bdnyc posted:

When you have some time with the cables, perhaps you could assess the sonic impact of using these Chord AC power cords in your system context for the rest of us?

Bruce

I think that I have had sufficient time to venture some comment now 

Just a bit of background, I mainly listen to vinyl on my LP12 which is a fairly high (if not entirely conventional) specification comprising LP12 with Woodsong wenge plinth, Klimax Radikal, Keel sub-chassis, Urika phono stage, Naim Aro and Linn Krystal cartridge - all enhanced with Tiger-Paw Khan top plate, Tranquility and sKale counterweight.

The Chord Sarum Super ARAY power chord was connected to the Radikal; the Naim amps use Powerlines. The interconnects are Chord Sarum Super ARAY and the speaker cable is NACA5 to Kudos Super 20s.

When I changed the SSA to the Sarum T power chord on the Radikal there were elements of the music that immediately sounded better - clearer and bigger - but overall it was a little less coherent and a bit distracting. I was focusing on the good bits rather than enjoying the music.

I went through the process of changing back and forth a couple of times, and it was apparent that although the cohesion was not quite as good at that time the Sarum T was giving things that the SSA wasn't and it became more compelling, almost demanding that you put on another record.

Also the direction of travel was clearly the right one. It did not take very long before the Sarum T was simply better, and there was no need or desire to swap back to the SSA. As more music was played the sound of the system evolved and things fell into place as more a natural and cohesive presentation, but not as it had been previously with the SSA as it was more of a performance with greater presence. More perceived pace and flow - more real.

The mindset switched to then just enjoying listening to music as I mentioned at the beginning. There have been numerous occasions when I have suddenly thought "Wow - this is amazingly good" without really thinking about why.

The completely stupid thing though was it was very good before the change. I wouldn't want to live without the Sarum T and go back to SSA, but I think that I could - although I would need to listen with a standard cable first and then change up to SSA!! I already know that I could not give up the SSA power cable - as I tried and failed.

Although it is, in some ways, rather annoying and galling that Chord have improved their cable so significantly so recently after the SSA came out, I am actually very pleased that they did.

Chris

Thanks for taking the time to create this thoughtful overview Chris.     In my experience, as you introduce higher resolution products into a system, it can take some time for everything to fall into place.    Now, whether this is really break in on an engineering level, or whether you as the listener need time to become comfortable with the new perspectives on music that your system offers, that is an endless philosophical debate that has no clear answer in my mind.

Enjoy the ride,

Bruce

 

The thing about cables ...

As Touraj of Vertere says (please check his interview on vertere website) : "after the source, there is nothing (amp, preamp, etc) there that can improve on the signal". The only thing that can happen, is interference, modification, changing the signal, effectively ruining the signal.

According to Touraj.

"And cables do that the most"    (ruining the signal) 

Also had a email from Naim that said the same thing.

The better amps from Naim are better (552 better than 282 for example), because they do less damage to the signal. (so 552 does less harm to the signal after the source than a 282)

 

analogmusic posted:

The thing about cables ...

As Touraj of Vertere says (please check his interview on vertere website) : "after the source, there is nothing (amp, preamp, etc) there that can improve on the signal". The only thing that can happen, is interference, modification, changing the signal, effectively ruining the signal.

According to Touraj.

"And cables do that the most"    (ruining the signal) 

 

Says the man who makes a living from selling expensive cables.

analogmusic posted:

The thing about cables ...

As Touraj of Vertere says (please check his interview on vertere website) : "after the source, there is nothing (amp, preamp, etc) there that can improve on the signal". The only thing that can happen, is interference, modification, changing the signal, effectively ruining the signal.

According to Touraj.

"And cables do that the most"    (ruining the signal) 

 

...and this is also one of the reasons why the 272 is so good...

G

I did order Chord Music Cables for my system! RCA  Interconnects from Naim NDS to Preamp and XLRs from Preamp to Amp. Big wow!  Not fully burned in yet, but sounded great from the get go! Have gotten a better in the week that they have been installed. Chord has a real winner in these cables. Music flowing from the NDS sound even better now, more real &  life like. Or to put it simply,  much more enjoyable to listen to. 

musicfan51 posted:

I did order Chord Music Cables for my system! RCA  Interconnects from Naim NDS to Preamp and XLRs from Preamp to Amp. Big wow!  Not fully burned in yet, but sounded great from the get go! Have gotten a better in the week that they have been installed. Chord has a real winner in these cables. Music flowing from the NDS sound even better now, more real &  life like. Or to put it simply,  much more enjoyable to listen to. 

Congrats, Enjoy Your Music!

And the pricing is relevant!

Chord Music RCA from £3800.00 (UK RRP)

Chord Music DIN from £3500.00 (UK RRP
Chord Music XLR from £5500.00 (UK RRP)

 

Wow! 3.5K for the Source

And if one is rocking Naim's , 500/300 Amps, that's two more !!!

3.5 K + 8.0 K = 11.5 K GBP

That Sounds about right!

NDS ~ 7 K

555 PS ~ 6.5 K

13.5 K ~ Source
11.5 K ~ WIRES

Less than a loaded LP12, a bargain when you think about it! 

Your Money may be Long, But Life is Short!

Enjoy Your MUSIC!

Allante93!

 

 

 

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