Cisco switch

Currently use a "Cisco SG110D 110 Series 5-Port Unmanaged Network Switch" between my router and NDX. Would moving to a "Cisco WS-C2960-8TC-L" or "Cisco WS-C3560-8PC" make a significant improvement or would it be so subtle that the hearing of a 66 year old might miss it completely?

Your thoughts/opinions are appreciated.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:
French Rooster posted:.

you can have two switches : one cisco 2960 for streaming and a cheap one like netgear gs 105 for the tv and other devices....

 

Why on earth would you want this... it defeats the object of using a switch.

because bryce is using the 24 port cisco, which is noisy.  So the 8 port cisco would be for audio, connected by lan to the router and the other switch would be for non audio components,like tv....

seakayaker posted:

Currently use a "Cisco SG110D 110 Series 5-Port Unmanaged Network Switch" between my router and NDX. Would moving to a "Cisco WS-C2960-8TC-L" or "Cisco WS-C3560-8PC" make a significant improvement or would it be so subtle that the hearing of a 66 year old might miss it completely?

Your thoughts/opinions are appreciated.

It’s only really theCatalyst switches such as the 2960 and 3560 that seem to make a big difference over standard switches, not to say there aren’t others, but just because a switch has a ‘Cisco’ brand won’t make it neccessarily better,

French Rooster posted:
Simon-in-Suffolk posted:
French Rooster posted:.

you can have two switches : one cisco 2960 for streaming and a cheap one like netgear gs 105 for the tv and other devices....

 

Why on earth would you want this... it defeats the object of using a switch.

because bryce is using the 24 port cisco, which is noisy.  So the 8 port cisco would be for audio, connected by lan to the router and the other switch would be for non audio components,like tv....

Or he can remotely switch from his large 2960..and put in his garage or in a room where the fans don’t matter.

But yes using an 8 port or multiple 8 ports gets around the fan issue if you want them in your living space.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:
French Rooster posted:
Simon-in-Suffolk posted:
French Rooster posted:.

you can have two switches : one cisco 2960 for streaming and a cheap one like netgear gs 105 for the tv and other devices....

 

Why on earth would you want this... it defeats the object of using a switch.

because bryce is using the 24 port cisco, which is noisy.  So the 8 port cisco would be for audio, connected by lan to the router and the other switch would be for non audio components,like tv....

Or he can remotely switch from his large 2960..and put in his garage or in a room where the fans don’t matter.

But yes using an 8 port or multiple 8 ports gets around the fan issue if you want them in your living space.

My home network is slightly complicated.  The router is in the lounge beside the BT master socket.  The switch has to be in the garage because that's where the data panel is.  I don't know how many people are familiar with these but I have over twenty data points in various rooms throughout my house but if I want to use any of them I need to 'patch' (I think that is the right term) by running an Ethernet cable from the switch to the appropriate socket on the data panel.  I ran a long Ethernet cable from the router to the garage.

So the noise doesn't really matter.  But I don't have a dedicated music switch.  My options:

Leave as is.

Run a second long Ethernet cable from router to garage for a second switch - not easy but certainly possible.

The router and the Atom are in the same room so I could connect the Atom directly to the router.  Would I still need a switch because the NAS is in another room and I cannot run a cable from there to the lounge.

Move the NAS into the lounge.  Don't know if that's an option.

Don't know what S-i-S meant by 'remotely switch'.  A switch off a switch?  Would that preserve any benefits of the 2960?

charlesphoto posted:

Anyone compare the Cisco 2960-8 with a Netgear FS or GS105/108 that has the ground shunt adapter as laid out by John Swenson over on CA? And/or with a linear power supply? 

i had before the netgear gs105 powered by a high quality linear ps.  The cisco is more dynamic and involving, but a bit edgy, the netgear combo was more delicate sounding but leaner....

I kept the cisco because it was more involving, has more body, and my network bridge takes off the edgyness.

Bryce Curdy posted:
Simon-in-Suffolk posted:
French Rooster posted:
Simon-in-Suffolk posted:
French Rooster posted:.

you can have two switches : one cisco 2960 for streaming and a cheap one like netgear gs 105 for the tv and other devices....

 

Why on earth would you want this... it defeats the object of using a switch.

because bryce is using the 24 port cisco, which is noisy.  So the 8 port cisco would be for audio, connected by lan to the router and the other switch would be for non audio components,like tv....

Or he can remotely switch from his large 2960..and put in his garage or in a room where the fans don’t matter.

But yes using an 8 port or multiple 8 ports gets around the fan issue if you want them in your living space.

My home network is slightly complicated.  The router is in the lounge beside the BT master socket.  The switch has to be in the garage because that's where the data panel is.  I don't know how many people are familiar with these but I have over twenty data points in various rooms throughout my house but if I want to use any of them I need to 'patch' (I think that is the right term) by running an Ethernet cable from the switch to the appropriate socket on the data panel.  I ran a long Ethernet cable from the router to the garage.

So the noise doesn't really matter.  But I don't have a dedicated music switch.  My options:

Leave as is.

Run a second long Ethernet cable from router to garage for a second switch - not easy but certainly possible.

The router and the Atom are in the same room so I could connect the Atom directly to the router.  Would I still need a switch because the NAS is in another room and I cannot run a cable from there to the lounge.

Move the NAS into the lounge.  Don't know if that's an option.

Don't know what S-i-S meant by 'remotely switch'.  A switch off a switch?  Would that preserve any benefits of the 2960?

perhaps like you said, if you run a second lan from your router to a dedicated switch ( less noisy), like the cisco 2960-8port.   But i don’t know if the noisy fans have an impact on sound quality. I would say yes, but i may also be wrong.   For 50GBP it may be interesting to test.

Hi I keep seeing references to Cisco switches such as 2960 ........ these are quite pricey. Presently I use a gigabit 5 port switch .... plastic non descrip ebay jobbie and an 8 port net gear .... they seem to work just fine......... would changing these for the Cisco type really make a noticeable difference?

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:
seakayaker posted:

Currently use a "Cisco SG110D 110 Series 5-Port Unmanaged Network Switch" between my router and NDX. Would moving to a "Cisco WS-C2960-8TC-L" or "Cisco WS-C3560-8PC" make a significant improvement or would it be so subtle that the hearing of a 66 year old might miss it completely?

Your thoughts/opinions are appreciated.

It’s only really theCatalyst switches such as the 2960 and 3560 that seem to make a big difference over standard switches, not to say there aren’t others, but just because a switch has a ‘Cisco’ brand won’t make it neccessarily better,

Thanks for the information......

Richieroo posted:

Hi I keep seeing references to Cisco switches such as 2960 ........ these are quite pricey. Presently I use a gigabit 5 port switch .... plastic non descrip ebay jobbie and an 8 port net gear .... they seem to work just fine......... would changing these for the Cisco type really make a noticeable difference?

only you can decide - but a used 8 port one on the usual auction sites can be had for not much... Use the 8 port ones even though sometimes they are slightly more than used larger versions. The 8 port plus uplink versions are silent.

Only your own ears can answer that question Richieroo;   as good as forum members say a C2960 may be, other forums say the Netgear GS108T reigns supreme,  a person on one of those forums who seems to write like he knows a thing or two about IT stuff says switches make no difference,  so it raises doubts in minds if nothing else.      I use a Cisco SG110D (its a very basic unmanaged switch)   it made a small difference when I swapped it from a Netgear GS105,  I've since powered the little Cisco with its own SMPS,  an iFi iPower & now with a Friwo MMP15,  there was small differences between it all so I don't agree that switches make "no" difference.   I'm sure the C2960 will probably improve your SQ,  question maybe is do whatever improvements it may bring meet your expectations.  

All I can say is,....in our group here in Sweden, 30 Cisco WS-C2960-8TC-L switch owner,every member say they have an improvement. Alot say,the improvement was as big as between Linn's Akurate and Klimax products.

If you have a good system-installation you here more of the improvement 😉,and of course also network-installation.

And YES,....alot have had earlier the "famous" Netgear GS108T,even with extra good quality linear power supply or medical grade Smps,or Ifi Ipower.

Go for it,it only cost between £50-70,and the exact modell number is Cisco WS-C2960-8TC-L.

And,the group I talk about in the beginning,have had this hobby,High-End Hifi Linn/Naim between 25 to 35 years. So they are no beginners,.....they have good hearing 😉😁👍🏻.

/Peder 🙂 

Indeed Peder - and I have had correspondence from various parts, some quite unexpected and esteemed in the world of Hifi, suggesting they have heard the same .... but ultimately whether the differences are an improvement  or not is down to personal preference... I am fairly sure some prefer their audio mixed with some RFI reading these forum pages, and as such a Catalyst 2960 might not be preferable...

Ethernet witches are in the limit going to loosely couple their PHY clock oscillators through the Manchester encoded signals on the twisted pair to the host receiver such as the streamer... Now if one can hear differences between ethernet cables, or differences between FLAC and WAV - then it makes no sense whatsoever that you won't somehow hear these PHY clock differences as well.

Now there may also be other reasons as well - but this sounds like the most plausible - and might also account for the very low EM footprint of the Catalyst switches which his part of their design. 

If my theory is right then I suspect industrial PTP switches will sound as good if not better than the Catalyst switches.. as they have to have a very tight PHY clock to support the Precision Time Protocol - which exists in part below the data link layer. I do not have a PTP (IEEE1598)  device to experiment with however...... such as a Cisco 2520.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

 

Now there may also be other reasons as well - but this sounds like the most plausible - and might also account for the very low EM footprint of the Catalyst switches which his part of their design. 

If my theory is right then I suspect industrial PTP switches will sound as good if not better than the Catalyst switches.. as they have to have a very tight PHY clock to support the Precision Time Protocol 

Thanks Simon - that answered one of my questions from 'The Great Ethernet Showdown 2' thread 

Richieroo posted:

Hi I keep seeing references to Cisco switches such as 2960 ........ these are quite pricey. Presently I use a gigabit 5 port switch .... plastic non descrip ebay jobbie and an 8 port net gear .... they seem to work just fine......... would changing these for the Cisco type really make a noticeable difference?

refurbished and factory reset for around 50GBP.  A lot of us took this option on bay site.  Simon said they can work a lifetime....

Wow many thanks for this .... ok ....... I am currently discovering the delights of a Raspberry Pi/Roon and its sensitivity to the quality of the psu. This got me thinking about the two switches hanging on my system ........ each with two nasty wall warts........ my plan will be to replace the switches with cisco's,  and eventually change their psu's for better quality items........... Thanks for all your help, what you highlighted seems to make complete sense ......... I'm quite excited about the prospect of improving things further.....my system appears very sensitive......  I will report back in a couple of months.... cheers all.

Richieroo posted:

........ my plan will be to replace the switches with cisco's,  and eventually change their psu's for better quality items........... 

The Cisco Catalyst switches people have been getting excited about have built in PSUs, there are no wall-warts to upgrade!

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Indeed Peder - 

 

 

If my theory is right then I suspect industrial PTP switches will sound as good if not better than the Catalyst switches.. as they have to have a very tight PHY clock to support the Precision Time Protocol - which exists in part below the data link layer. I do not have a PTP (IEEE1598)  device to experiment with however...... such as a Cisco 2520.

Simon,.....very interesting to read. I have talked to the company in Holland today. The company that we buy our Cisco's from.

He send me this information,is it this Cisco 2520 you mean/talked about........

.......●   Cisco CGS-2520-24TC: Rugged Ethernet switch with 24 10/100BaseTX ports and two dual-purpose Gigabit Ethernet uplinks (dual-purpose Gigabit Ethernet uplinks allow the user to activate either copper or fiber media). There are two 10/100/1000BaseTX ports and two 100/1000 Small Form-Factor Pluggable (SFP) ports on board. The user can select two fiber ports, two copper ports, or a combination of fiber and copper ports. The Layer 2 LAN Base image is included.

●   Cisco CGS-2520-16S-8PC: Rugged Ethernet switch with 16 Fast Ethernet (FE) SFP ports, eight 10/100BaseTX/PoE+ ports, and two dual-purpose Gigabit Ethernet uplinks. The Layer 2 LAN Base image is included.

/Peder 🙂 

 

Bunny Colvin posted:

Aesthetics aside, is there any significant difference between the older blue models and the newer grey versions?

All I can say,.....Inside they look exactly the same,haven't compared them if there are some differences in soundquality.

I have one from 2007,it's blue. The one from 2009 is grey.

IF,....it is differences in soundquality, I think it's because you must recapp the older ones SMPS power-supply card. We have done it with one Cisco 2960,and after a "burn-in" period the soundquality was better. This Cisco was from 2007.

/Peder 🙂 

Brian King posted:

I am able to run an Ethernet cable straight from my router to my 272. Would that be better or does using the switch inbetween add some benefits?

Your question needs clarifying:    does this mean you are only www.streaming (Tidal, Spotify etc) & iRadio ??

If the answer is yes then there is no point of having a switch.    If however your 272 is also local streaming from something like a NAS, Core or other local server,  then the switch makes sense as it manages data stream traffic between the three (or more) components,  and it might do a better job than the router.     As to if it sounds better,  that argument can go on a bit,     in my case it did for sure because at that time I had a crap router.  I carried on with a switch even tho' I have a good router these days,  the switch makes for easier/tidier cable mngt & I believe a switch has a better chance of getting optimum SQ. 

Mike-B posted:
Brian King posted:

I am able to run an Ethernet cable straight from my router to my 272. Would that be better or does using the switch inbetween add some benefits?

🔴 Your question needs clarifying:    does this mean you are only www.streaming (Tidal, Spotify etc) & iRadio ??

If the answer is yes then there is no point of having a switch.🔴     If however your 272 is also local streaming from something like a NAS, Core or other local server,  then the switch makes sense as it manages data stream traffic between the three (or more) components,  and it might do a better job than the router.     As to if it sounds better,  that argument can go on a bit,     in my case it did for sure because at that time I had a crap router.  I carried on with a switch even tho' I have a good router these days,  the switch makes for easier/tidier cable mngt & I believe a switch has a better chance of getting optimum SQ. 

◾Mike-B,here we have different experience 😉,I,and all the people I have listening to music with.......All hear a differens to the better with a Cisco 2960,even when streaming (Tidal,Spotify ect).

Strange that we have so different experience about this.

/Peder 🙂 

Peder posted:

Mike-B,here we have different experience , I,and all the people I have listening to music with.......All hear a differens to the better with a Cisco 2960,even when streaming (Tidal,Spotify ect).

Strange that we have so different experience about this.

Yes Peder,  strange indeed if you mean that there is no server involved.   I cannot understand how a single one wire data stream connection between router & renderer ( router-renderer ) can be improved  by adding a switch in between them  ( router-switch-renderer )            

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