Do I really have to buy new speaker cables?

Good points HMACK,when I used NACA5 in my system,the rack was outside the speakers,because I had 7 meter long cables.When I decided to switch to Superlumina,my choice was to buy 3 meter length cables,and move the rack between the speakers,or spend another 2,000 dollars on 5 m long Superlumina.I moved the rack,and bought 3 meter Superlumina...sounds fantastic.The thing is with my room,I have my speakers around 5 feet from the front wall,so the rack is behind them by about 3 feet,and off to one side.There is nothing physically between the speakers to break up the soundstage,so this should be ok I would think.What is it we are trying to avoid here,vibrations from the speakers affecting the rack,or breaking up the soundstage with a physical object?

 

 

 

 

 

πŸ”Ή HMACK,....It's late now,and it's been 34 degrees C, in the shade all day....so I feel a little tired in the head 😎.

Therefore,I will answer you at a later time,.I will respond to everything you have written.
But I read from your response,that some experiences we share,.....some differ significantly.

I repeat,..what I wrote in my previous post IS a very well known knowledge,...which can also be explained purely acoustically.

What I wrote in my last post is the actual relationship,..So it works practically.
Which also some has confirmed here in the thread,..now the latest "French Rooster".

But for me it is not important what you can do with measuring equipment,..I listen,.... better-worse.....As Simply as That.

I see that you have a Linn product,then you probably knows about Linn's evaluation method Tune-Dem. By far the best in evaluating and music-system installations.

That said,everything I wrote in my previous post is correct,....was "openminded" and dare to try,...as with "French Rooster".. You will be amazed at the outcome.

Hmack,.. I say like Arnold..."I'll be back" 😁.

/Peder

No quarter posted:

I have my speakers around 5 feet from the front wall,so the rack is behind them by about 3 feet,and off to one side.There is nothing physically between the speakers to break up the soundstage,so this should be ok I would think.

 

 

 

 

 

I wish I could have my speakers 5 feet from the wall, with the rack behind. A great set up.πŸ‘

Mike1951 posted:

Try this: put on your favourite piece of demo music and set the volume level. 

Listen. 

Get a blanket or duvet, cover up the stack.

Listen again. 

For those not constrained with rack placement, I'd say you don't even have to bother with the blanket. Set the volume as said. Now stick your head between the speakers (where your rack would be) and absorb the bass energy there, same as your gear does. Now move about the room to alternative rack locations (back wall, side wall, etc.), stick your head there, and evaluate the bass energy. Likely far less, barring corners. These 'far less' bass energy locations along walls should identify suitable rack locations where the gear will be subject to reduced microphony. Regardless of rack quality, I'd want to situate my gear here and would pay for the extra speaker cable to do so.

joerand...For those not constrained with rack placement, I'd say you don't even have to bother with the blanket. Set the volume as said. Now stick your head between the speakers (where your rack would be) and absorb the bass energy there, same as your gear does. Now move about the room to alternative rack locations (back wall, side wall, etc.), stick your head there, and evaluate the bass energy. Likely far less, barring corners. These 'far less' bass energy locations along walls should identify suitable rack locations where the gear will be subject to reduced microphony. Regardless of rack quality, I'd want to situate my gear here and would pay for the extra speaker cable to do so.

What a bloody good idea! 

I have absolutely no idea, but Is rack/speaker placement just all about 'bass energy', or are there other factors?

I actually have the choice of two rooms, but in each room there are slight complications. For instance, in one room, If I pull the speakers away from the wall, (I have Spendor A5's, which will be replaced later) then they are a bit too close to the 'hot seat'.

Do you mind me asking joerand, what's the distance between your speakers, then speaker to your 'hot seat'?

Regards

I am in a similar dilema .......... have moved room and have placed rack to one side of speakers ......... everything works electrically/sonically..... but it looks hideous all you see when you walk in the room is a face full of rack - a shrine to Naim - very man cave - her indoors is not pleased and to be honest I don't think it is great.  I have found an alternative position - which will look much more discrete - and satisfy room aesthetics ......... big problem my super lumina 3m speaker cables will not reach..........and I will have to use my 6m matched pair of old NACa5 .......... doh. Currently I have not switched on .... the unsightly setup .. I am thinking that is best not to hear the system with super lumina and just relocate and connect up with my trusty NACa5 ..... and rely on the newness of the room to mask the cable downgrade....agonizing times...........

Richieroo posted:

I am in a similar dilema .......... have moved room and have placed rack to one side of speakers ......... everything works electrically/sonically..... but it looks hideous all you see when you walk in the room is a face full of rack - a shrine to Naim - very man cave - her indoors is not pleased and to be honest I don't think it is great.  I have found an alternative position - which will look much more discrete - and satisfy room aesthetics ......... big problem my super lumina 3m speaker cables will not reach..........and I will have to use my 6m matched pair of old NACa5 .......... doh. Currently I have not switched on .... the unsightly setup .. I am thinking that is best not to hear the system with super lumina and just relocate and connect up with my trusty NACa5 ..... and rely on the newness of the room to mask the cable downgrade....agonizing times...........

I guess with a different room, you never know, the NACA5 may sound better than previously.

Looking at the 'System Pics" (I'm now looking back at the 2013 one's) Some guys have three FRAIMS, jam packed with black boxes. Yes, they are a face full of rack, but they look absolutely fantastic!πŸ‘

We, like many others, will have to make some kind of compromise with the set up. As some have mentioned, if it's worth doing, then do it right. This may include selling the old cable, and buying new cable. This may be an opportunity for me to demo some 'Phantom' Speaker Cable...

What size room do you have, and how far apart are/were your speakers?

Thanks

Hi my original setup was unusual -  I am going from a very small office to a room that is 20% bigger now ........ 2.65 x 3.45 it is still small - but hugely better - before I had my speakers on my desk on mini stands - and listen primarily close ........ like a studio. Now I have the same speakers but they will be on dedicated pmc stands .... well away from side walls ..... it is a proper small listening room - small couch/rug to floor ... ceiling is vaulted so standing waves are reduced. With a hand clap - the room is allot less lively ...... I am hoping - it should sound pretty good. The last room was 20% smaller - and even with unfavorable desk mounting - the speakers sounded fantastic ........ so we will see. I will report back. My system is not on a fraim - but on a single stack an Atacama evoque se ..... I am delighted with it.

To save worrying too much in advance of getting the kit...

Once you've decided on the actual system and got it home, get the dealer to loan you a couple of lengths of A5 or TQ and then you can experiment with equipment placement and work out which configuration works best for you and the new room. When happy, determine what lengths you need and either use what you have (if the length works) or flog it and buy new cables.

Sit back and enjoy your new system for many years to come

Peder posted:

πŸ”Ή HMACK,....It's late now,and it's been 34 degrees C, in the shade all day....so I feel a little tired in the head 😎.

Therefore,I will answer you at a later time,.I will respond to everything you have written.
But I read from your response,that some experiences we share,.....some differ significantly.

I repeat,..what I wrote in my previous post IS a very well known knowledge,...which can also be explained purely acoustically.

What I wrote in my last post is the actual relationship,..So it works practically.
Which also some has confirmed here in the thread,..now the latest "French Rooster".

But for me it is not important what you can do with measuring equipment,..I listen,.... better-worse.....As Simply as That.

I see that you have a Linn product,then you probably knows about Linn's evaluation method Tune-Dem. By far the best in evaluating and music-system installations.

That said,everything I wrote in my previous post is correct,....was "openminded" and dare to try,...as with "French Rooster".. You will be amazed at the outcome.

Hmack,.. I say like Arnold..."I'll be back" 😁.

/Peder

Peder, I'm not arguing that moving your hifi rack from between your speakers to a different location won't have any impact whatsoever on sound quality.

What I am suggesting is that A) results will almost certainly vary from system to system and in particular from room to room and that B) results are much more likely to be very subtle as opposed to transformational.

A system change of this sort is also a relatively difficult and time-consuming system change to test in any meaningful way. Even if your room and system cabling will allow you to carry out a test, it will take some considerable time and effort to make what may end up being a very temporary change. You then have the obstacles of  unreliable 'audio memory' and psychology to contend with, not to mention the possibility that subtle variations in sound quality are often experienced over the course of a typical day without any system changes. I find that my system can sound slightly 'different' at different times of the day - do you not find this with your own system? Finally, whilst for some people, very subtle changes can be perceived as being transformational, and there might be no good reason not to tinker indefinitely with one's system (after all this can be fun for a lot of us), for most there will be other factors to take into account that will supersede the potential subtle benefits of system changes of this sort.     

I certainly have no axe to grind with those who wish to tinker in this way, and if you have the time to spare then why not? But these days I find that practical considerations have become more important and I prefer not to worry about potential subtle improvements unless they are relatively straightforward to test and implement.  

If a system gets better when you move a TV, it's probably because the speaker inside the TV has been moved to where it can do less harm. Additional  speakers in a listening room are a major no-no. I'ver heard systems go downhill when an unused pair of headphones was brought into the room.

Looking back at 100's of the 'System Pics', probably 8 out of 10 have a TV, or some other kind of speaker in the room, 5.1 etc...

I do have the opportunity to use an empty room, but it is a tad small, thus the location of the rack v speakers is not ideal.

JRHardee posted:

If a system gets better when you move a TV, it's probably because the speaker inside the TV has been moved to where it can do less harm. Additional  speakers in a listening room are a major no-no. I'ver heard systems go downhill when an unused pair of headphones was brought into the room.

It's like being back in the 80s in the company of a militant Linn dealer

james n posted:
JRHardee posted:

If a system gets better when you move a TV, it's probably because the speaker inside the TV has been moved to where it can do less harm. Additional  speakers in a listening room are a major no-no. I'ver heard systems go downhill when an unused pair of headphones was brought into the room.

It's like being back in the 80s in the company of a militant Linn dealer

It is too hot outside to respond to the other πŸ˜‰, I get back to it.
But a short answer here....

Yes,the same truths and conditions still apply,.. It hasn't changed.
But times have changed,today's usual new customers do not have the interest that existed on the 80 and 90 's and a bit into the 2000 's.
All of us know,that this interest has decreased strongly since the middle of the 90 century.

Would traders talk about things like that today, with new customers who would buy a music system..so then they would probably lose that customer.

Most customers today want a "life style system",which plays well enough and looks nice together with other furniture....not 6-14 black boxes.

Just look at Linn,they've completely stopped being "Attention To Detail"....it doesn't sell.
But just because it does not sell,old truths do not cease to exist.

Now back out in the heat.....
/Peder πŸ™‚

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