Do you have your system on its own dedicated ring on the house electrical supply?

Adam Meredith posted:

I presume you've picked the bones out of - Search Results

I would presume he hasn't, that would take ages, and probably drive him insane.

Short answer - dedicated circuit, yes. Like most others, very worthwhile for me. Dedicated ring - no idea, I went with Naim's recommendation for UK users and just went with a radial.

You want a separate consumer unit with 50amp breakers. Split the meter tails with a Henley Block. Run a single 10mm squared cable to a good unswitched socket, or sockets. This applies to the U.K. only and whatever you do, get a properly qualified electrician. Splitting the 100 amp tails with the power still on is not something for an amateur. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

You want a separate consumer unit with 50amp breakers. Split the meter tails with a Henley Block. Run a single 10mm squared cable to a good unswitched socket, or sockets. This applies to the U.K. only and whatever you do, get a properly qualified electrician. Splitting the 100 amp tails with the power still on is not something for an amateur. 

Exactly what I did a year or so ago and it was an improvement - I also put Powerlines onto my XPS, SC and 250 (all DR's) which I also felt was a worthwhile further improvement. Only thing the new main didn't completely kill was transformer hum when SHMBO's hair dryer is used. Just shows how much electrical filth those things generate. Only seems to happen when she the heater is at full wack.

@Popeye if you are in the UK, give Naim support a call. They will be able to tell you what they recommend for your system. For me, they suggested a separate consumer unit with 32 Amp type C MCB, 10mm T&E cable, and unstitched sockets. That's what I used - no special 'audiophile' cable, sockets etc. 

Don't know if it's the same availability in UK, but in Canada I had my electrician install a lightning surge filter on my dedicated Audio circuit, at the panel. It's a separate box that is attached to the side of the panel. It wasn't expensive. You might want to ask..

When I rewired my house I ran a dedicared ring to the lounge, with multiple sockets in several strategic positions. When serious listening to music  there would not normally be anything else on in the room other than the hifi system. That was my compromise, and glad I didn’t run a dedicated spur because the positions I originally envisaged having everything needed a complete change once I set up and assessed the sound, the electronics ending up at the opposite corner of a 7m room. 

(I installed more dedicated circuits in the rest of the house than people normally have as well, to minimise effect of interferences between any area, and prevent unrelated things being cut off in event of a fault.)

He have a dedicated spur. The opportunity arose to install one when renovations were made to the house, and it seemed silly not to grasp it.

There is a ring main socket nearby, so it is easy to compere comparatively "clean" amps to comparatively "dirty" ones.

The difference is more than we expected. In the same order of magnitude as installing a Fraim. The presentation is cleaner. Simple yet more detailed than before. We considered it a worthwhile upgrade. In our case it didn't involve any disruption to the house because it was already in pieces.

ChrisSU posted:

@Popeye if you are in the UK, give Naim support a call. They will be able to tell you what they recommend for your system. For me, they suggested a separate consumer unit with 32 Amp type C MCB, 10mm T&E cable, and unstitched sockets. That's what I used - no special 'audiophile' cable, sockets etc. 

Had the Spark in today and the 10mm cable is in and all getting connected up next week the same as you Chris as this is what Naim recommended to me also.

Am I likely to hear a sound difference?

Popeye - 

You should hear a change - the extent of which will depend on how cluttered your mains was from things like household appliances (e.g. fridges and alike). Hopefully, detailing and bass will step up.

I would also suggest the tails closest to the incoming mains feed (in the splitter block) are wired to the hi-fi CU - i.e. to be done by the sparks. 

Depending upon your internal hi-fi wiring, you may wish to experiment with the order of kit plug ins. Some prefer putting the power amp 1st in the sequence/others the source I think.

It may also be beneficial to get a CU with spare capacity or wire-up some spare sockets for the upgraditis bug! i.e. get a larger CU at the outset?

In my experience, it's easier to get the spare capacity installed at the outset, than get a sparks to revisit (potential drilling/redecoration et al) - and the cost difference wasn't material in the overall scheme of things.

For years I have two dedicated spurs one for my Linn Radikal/LP12 and the other for my Naim amps from a dedicated Consumer Unit.

i have often wondered the difference in sound quality deploying a ‘ring’ rather than a ‘spur’ and what fundamentally is the difference in terms of electrical configuration and UK regulations.

Richard

 

FangfossFlyer posted:

 

i have often wondered the difference in sound quality deploying a ‘ring’ rather than a ‘spur’ and what fundamentally is the difference in terms of electrical configuration and UK regulations.

Richard

 

If you do a search for diydata.com electrical glossary, the terms are explained.

For regulations go to iet.org or hse.gov.uk electrical standards

FangfossFlyer posted:

For years I have two dedicated spurs one for my Linn Radikal/LP12 and the other for my Naim amps from a dedicated Consumer Unit.

i have often wondered the difference in sound quality deploying a ‘ring’ rather than a ‘spur’ and what fundamentally is the difference in terms of electrical configuration and UK regulations.

Richard

 

I was advised by my dealer to do the same - two spurs, one for digital power (Radikal) and second for Naim electronics. Standard cable used and unswtiched MK sockets.  The work was done during extensive remodelling of the downstairs of our house so couldn't do a before and after and comment on the improvement in SQ - but certainly not as much "clicking" as my previous arrangement in the other house when the fridge compressor was a constant pain.

Popeye posted:
ChrisSU posted:

@Popeye if you are in the UK, give Naim support a call. They will be able to tell you what they recommend for your system. For me, they suggested a separate consumer unit with 32 Amp type C MCB, 10mm T&E cable, and unstitched sockets. That's what I used - no special 'audiophile' cable, sockets etc. 

Had the Spark in today and the 10mm cable is in and all getting connected up next week the same as you Chris as this is what Naim recommended to me also.

Am I likely to hear a sound difference?

I'm fairly certain that this cleaned up the sound quite a lot for me. As others have mentioned, I installed the dedicated circuits as part of a major house refurb, so I never made a direct A/B comparison of before and after. The old circuit is still there, so maybe I'll try it one day!

I imagine the benefits would be greater in terms of isolation if your mains is polluted - our house is in a rural location with few neighbours and no commercial buildings nearby, so I would hope the incoming mains isn't too bad. I also try to keep gadgets and dodgy PSUs to a minimum, or so I thought until I started to investigate: it seems this might be easier said than done. See https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...34#73793444789439134 

I did have one specified when they were building the condominium. And they installed it. Only problem was they wired the dedicated ring to the wrong set of sockets and this came to light after it was behind grain matched wall panels, under a heated floor and under a long run of carefully grain matched marble tiles.

Estimated cost of fixing this blunder: $100K plus moving out of the apartment for several weeks. So I guess the answer to the OP is yeah, but no, but yeah kinda, but no. 

 

I am looking into this and have my electrician coming round this week to discuss. 

His initial view is that, using 10mm squared cable from a separate consumer unit with 50amp breakers, he’d only be able to have one twin socket on the end and not two.

He could wire 2 x4mm as a ring and have a two dedicated sockets. He said that this would be the equivalent of an 8mm direct supply.

Today I power my 272 via XPSDR and my 250DR from a twin socket using Powerlines. 

I also use a Powerline lite to a wireworld matrix 2 block from which I connect my Rega Aria, Rega TTPS, my Cisco 2960 switch and my UnitiServe.

Question - should I go for the single dedicated double socket on a 10mm direct supply and have the 250 and XPS as the only components benefitting from it with the other components essentially on the main mains circuit as they are today or have two double sockets but with a 8mm dedicated supply with everything on that same supply?

many thanks

David

S3 posted:

I am looking into this and have my electrician coming round this week to discuss. 

His initial view is that, using 10mm squared cable from a separate consumer unit with 50amp breakers, he’d only be able to have one twin socket on the end and not two.

He could wire 2 x4mm as a ring and have a two dedicated sockets. He said that this would be the equivalent of an 8mm direct supply.

Today I power my 272 via XPSDR and my 250DR from a twin socket using Powerlines. 

I also use a Powerline lite to a wireworld matrix 2 block from which I connect my Rega Aria, Rega TTPS, my Cisco 2960 switch and my UnitiServe.

Question - should I go for the single dedicated double socket on a 10mm direct supply and have the 250 and XPS as the only components benefitting from it with the other components essentially on the main mains circuit as they are today or have two double sockets but with a 8mm dedicated supply with everything on that same supply?

many thanks

David

David - I don't follow this, as you can (obviously) have several circuits wired from the CU (as you do for the house) i.e. whether these be rings or radials (former means 2 cables instead of one in the CU's breakers so as to complete the wiring 'loop').

10mm cabling (electric cooker cable by another parlance) is very challenging to bend and make in to a ring circuit as the terminals in the sockets and at the CU(?) aren't big enough to accept 2 x 10mm cables  - i.e. you should be able to have several 10mm radial sockets from the same CU. 

Richard's question is topical for me (& you?) as I have a 6 circuit 'h-fi' CU (I think sparks call them gangs - spelling?), with 6 x 10mm radials - with dedicated earthing (all done by a sparks). A dealer suggested I might be better off using 1 for my Naim kit with a star-earthed distribution block - within which I assume the feeds would be tapped off a single point in the block, so no bit of kit would have 'priority', as is currently the case with the bus bar in the CU.

FangfossFlyer posted:

Any comments on having a separate spur for each Naim box compared to having just one Spur that is used for all Naim boxes?

Richard

I had three 10mm spurs put in - one for the power amp, one for the pre, one for my main source (was CD555, now Dave). Some folks have a separate Consumer Unit for their spurs, but as I’d inherited separate CUs for the kitchen and the rest of the house I thought I’d pushed my domestic luck as far as it would go...

I did once try fitting two 10mm cables into the same connection on an MK socket, and it was a challenge, but it can be done. Discussing this with my electrician, he suggested splitting the cable with a Henley block under the floorboards, and running the feeds to the two double sockets from there. The Henley block is designed to take 10mm cable, and it was easier to make nice tight connections  with it.

Most small consumer units used for this purpose have more than one way available, so if you can run two cables from there, maybe that would be better. I have two 10mm radials from mine, but they supply two different rooms. 

S3 posted:

Has anyone used something called SY cable for this? My electrician said it would be perfect for the job; screened and fine stranded with a 10mm earth cable inside it.

I’ve seen SY cable rebranded as an ‘audiophile’ mains cable at a vastly increased price in the past, so somebody must think it’s worth trying. 

My electrician just popped round to take a look. We discussed options and he will quote for a new MK consumer unit with a 10mm feed up the outside side wall of the house to the loft where my listening room is. From there he’ll connect the cable up to a Henly block from where he can run two further 10mm cables to two unswitched MK double sockets. I’ll get a quote for the standard 10mm cable and for the SY cable too.

FangfossFlyer posted:

Any comments on having a separate spur for each Naim box compared to having just one Spur that is used for all Naim boxes?

Richard

I recall that a local hi-fi dealer tried using NAPS1s on separate spurs and it wasn't a success, but then my memory is less reliable than a very leaky watering can.

Quote received. It’s £50 more to have this done with “SY cable” verses the “standard” 10mm cable.

Should I opt for this SY cable or stick with the standard? 

I guess it can’t do any harm going with the SY but I’m also conscious that no one here (that I’m aware of) has used it so may be safer to stick with the standard.

Regards

David

S3 posted:

Quote received. It’s £50 more to have this done with “SY cable” verses the “standard” 10mm cable.

Should I opt for this SY cable or stick with the standard? 

I guess it can’t do any harm going with the SY but I’m also conscious that no one here (that I’m aware of) has used it so may be safer to stick with the standard.

Regards

David

 

I assume the SY cable is two core plus earth, but what size is it?

Just thinking aloud; but if it's 6mm² it will have the advantage of daisy chaining an additional unswitched double socket or two, and also the screening which in theory could trump ordinary 10mm². 

Debs

S3 posted:

Quote received. It’s £50 more to have this done with “SY cable” verses the “standard” 10mm cable.

Should I opt for this SY cable or stick with the standard? 

I guess it can’t do any harm going with the SY but I’m also conscious that no one here (that I’m aware of) has used it so may be safer to stick with the standard.

Regards

David

Out of interest, how much was your quote, David ?

Just had mine done yesterday, 10mm radial on own consumer unit with 32a type C exactly as recommended by Naim. £200 all fitted and certified.

Decorating at the moment so yet to see if I hear a difference. Electrician said my supply was very good and had a fantastic earth reading and had and extremely steady 50htz supply.

Hi Debs - yes it’s a two core plus 10mm earth which I understand is larger than the standard 10mm cable so may have advantages or may not. The cable will go into a Henly block and from there will feed two double sockets. 

Hi James - my quote is more than Popeye’s but it’s a fairly involved job with 14m high ladder work and then running cables under the house to the new consumer unit etc.

Regards

David

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