Eat Less Meat !!

Abstracted from the BBC website:-

Scientists say we ought to eat much less meat because the meat industry causes so many carbon emissions.

But the climate minister Claire Perry has told BBC News it is not the government's job to advise people on a climate-friendly diet.

She would not even say whether she herself would eat less meat.

Ms Perry has been accused by Friends of the Earth of a dereliction of duty. They say ministers must show leadership on this difficult issue.

But the minister - who is personally convinced about the need to tackle climate change - is anxious to avoid accusations of finger-wagging.

Now, if you look through some of my posts a few years ago you will see this doesn't come as a shock to me.

Mankind has been eating meat for 200,000 years. We are designed that way. We used to hunt meat. Then c. 10,000 years ago we figured out it was a lot easier and a lot more reliable to farm our meat. And there was a remarkable increase in green house gasses (principally methane).

The problem today is not just that we each eat a lot of meat, it's because there are far too many of us, and we all want to eat meat (yeh, ok, there are a few vegetarians etc).

If George were still here, he would be agreeing about the "far too many of us" issue.

So, the gov might be recommending that we eat smaller pizzas and pies, but let's make sure those pies are stuffed full of good quality, wholesome meat, the gov doesn't want to become a nanny state about eating less meat, and sure as hell, they don't want to start a discussion about population reduction !

"laid-back-but-awfully-reassuring"

Original Post

Similar as Florestan's thread about smaller pizza. 

We are by design, meat eaters, as  glance at our teeth will show. Governments trying to persuade people not to do what comes naturally is doomed to failure.  A punitive 'beef tax' (unlike that on cigarettes) wouldn't have public support - though I suppose we might see the return of cattle rustling.  Obviously no government is going to take action to significantly reduce the population. What's left?  If the government wants to do something perhaps it should fund research into reducing cows' farting.   

Just seen the doctor for my over 65 mot. She said my cholesterol's high so cut out processed meat, ham, bacon etc (which I will do) and have 4oz or 100 gm portions of my favourite fresh meat daily if I must. That's about 1/2 my usual portion. I'm going to do this for my health and not the climate, although if the climate benefits that's OK by me. Think my pocket might benefit as well, upgrade coming up may be? Rich 

Rich 1 posted:

Just seen the doctor for my over 65 mot. She said my cholesterol's high so cut out processed meat, ham, bacon etc (which I will do) and have 4oz or 100 gm portions of my favourite fresh meat daily if I must. That's about 1/2 my usual portion. I'm going to do this for my health and not the climate, although if the climate benefits that's OK by me. Think my pocket might benefit as well, upgrade coming up may be? Rich 

And that's how life should be !

Doctors, politicians, "experts" should provide evidence-based ADVICE, and ENCOURAGEMENT.

Most of us take the advice and act accordingly.

Sometimes the encouragement comes in the form of FINANCIAL INCENTIVES eg a tax-break (the proverbial carrot) or a tax surcharge (the proverbial stick)

Very occasionally it comes in the form of "society rules" ie a legal imposition. But we hope these are few and far between.

I like to think that I live in "civilized" societies and I find both the UK and Canada suit me well. We can lobby to modify the "rules" to suit new evidence on a wide range of issues.

I wouldn't wish to live in any form of anarchy nor in any form of totallitarian society.

Don Atkinson posted:
...

Mankind has been eating meat for 200,000 years. We are designed that way. We used to hunt meat.
...

MDS posted:

...
We are by design, meat eaters, as  glance at our teeth will show.
...

More recent evidence suggested that until fairly recently in our elution (including the early hominids and all the way through to the early Homo sapiens sapiens hunter gatherers) that the gathered plant part of our diet was by far the greatest contribution.  This is shown in our teeth (omnivore dentition) and also shown in that our bodies have evolved to exploit a very much wider range of micro-nutrients than most other species and, in turn, in the development of our psychological makeup - in that we actively seek a varied diet - so that we obtain that very much wider range of micro-nutrients.

If we were 'designed' then the designer wasn't that intelligent, as there are a number of obviously fundamentally flawed design decisions (albeit alongside a large number of very good design decisions)! 

Turning and turning in the widening gyre   
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere   
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst   
Are full of passionate intensity.
 
 

 Our world gets more like one of those strange planets Kirk and Spock visited where the inhabitants were on the road to destruction but would argue about steak portions rather than do something to stop the ultimate disaster.

.sjb

TOBYJUG posted:

In the end it will be just us, and only us.  We will have eaten everything.

 

And then, not before time, population inevitably will reduce - if only out of boredom:

  “What’s to eat today?”

     “Cadaver burgers.”

  “But we had cadaver steak yesterday, can’t we have a change?”

     “How about cadaver ham, with cadaver brain relish?”

...

Of course unless murder or euthanasia is allowed, the poplulation will shrink - literally, as starvation sets in waiting for the next natual death, meanwhile those will accelerate, but tge bodies have less meat on them, until at some point it reaches equilibrium, and humanity(?) will be self-sustaining.

...

Sounds like a theme for an Egar Broughton song!

Hook posted:

Methane is bad, but deforestation (to create more fields to plant feed for livestock) is worse.

Indeed, but deforestation is a result of all manner of human recklessness. Like most of the major problems faced by life on Earth, it can be solved only by reducing human population. Not by reducing the rate of population growth, but actually having less of us. A lot less. Not something that is on any political agenda anywhere, as far as I’m aware. 

ChrisSU posted:
Hook posted:

Methane is bad, but deforestation (to create more fields to plant feed for livestock) is worse.

Indeed, but deforestation is a result of all manner of human recklessness. Like most of the major problems faced by life on Earth, it can be solved only by reducing human population. Not by reducing the rate of population growth, but actually having less of us. A lot less. Not something that is on any political agenda anywhere, as far as I’m aware. 

You mean break ip the EU, encourage Kim Jong Un to have a bust up with the orange one, Putin to make another grab for his neighbours and do something more drastic than two attempted murders plus an reckless accidental murder on British soil, Israel and Palestine to sort out their difference by force,China to decide it is time to take back Taiwan, goad islamic militants into doing their worst, and stop helping the victims of natural disasters around the world?

Sounds like a plot for a reverse James Bond movie, Seeking to track down and stop the agent that is  heroically trying to stop Spectre engineering those happenings... 

MDS posted:

 If the government wants to do something perhaps it should fund research into reducing cows' farting.   

We're working on that, along with groups in France and Finnland, the money comes from the EU so some will be coming from the government.

It is really rather easy - plumb them all in, collecting the methane for use as fuel. Where’s the difficulty in that? Yes, I know there’d be pipes all over the place, and a need for valves to divert the solids on demand - but inot much different surely from managing packets of information and accurate flow of data in a computer network - surely it can’t be harder than setting up a streaming network? 

Innocent Bystander posted:

It is really rather easy - plumb them all in, collecting the methane for use as fuel. Where’s the difficulty in that? Yes, I know there’d be pipes all over the place, and a need for valves to divert the solids on demand - but inot much different surely from managing packets of information and accurate flow of data in a computer network - surely it can’t be harder than setting up a streaming network? 

Good idea. I remember seeing photos from WWII where some folk had cars with huge bags on the roof containing gas to run them.  Perhaps Elon Musk could find a way of strapping a cow on the top of car with the engine converted to run on methane.  Unlike the large electric batteries used in his cars today which could well pose an environmental problem when they come to the end of their working life, with a cow the family could just eat it! That's proper recycling.  

 

Good idea. I remember seeing photos from WWII where some folk had cars with huge bags on the roof containing gas to run them.  Perhaps Elon Musk could find a way of strapping a cow on the top of car with the engine converted to run on methane.  Unlike the large electric batteries used in his cars today which could well pose an environmental problem when they come to the end of their working life, with a cow the family could just eat it! That's proper recycling.  

I think they used to be called......."horses" !!

Similar to cows, and according to the French, quite tastey when they come to the end of their life.

But no need for the metal work called a car, to be attached to their underside for travel...........

 

Still need an efficient means of collecting the, er, solid exhaust, and roads may not be big enough - 100 horses witha carriage for five to mahe good progress, though you could manage with maybe half that, and 200 for fun... Not sure how to get their legs to move faster as you add horsepower...

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