From 282/300 to 102/180

Peder posted:

🔹 BOB THE BUILDER wrote,...."Of course I’m not saying the 102/180 is a better amp than the 282/300 just that I’m enjoying it more".

AND...Surely that is the most important 👍🏻.

I have a very interesting story to tell you about Linn Lingo1,recapp with removed net filter vs. Linn Radikal.
But do not have time now,so I have to come back with that story.

A "teaser",we performed the above mentioned test at a Linn-trader....and everyone thought the same thing 😉.

I'll be back.....

/Peder 🙂

Really looking forward to hear from you, Peder. I have an Armageddon, and I am really missing 45 rpm. Do you think the recapped Lingo 1 is better than the Armageddon?

regards

Fred

To each his own as they say. I've had two Armageddon's , a couple of Lingo and several Valhalla. The Armageddon takes the music in a different direction, not bad, but certainly not 'better'. For me, a Gdd'n works with an ARO and pre Cirkus bearing, outside of that, i'm much less convinced.

I always thought that pre-Cirkus/Ittok/Valhalla was a particularly nice, musically satisfying combo; perhaps the pre-Ciruks bit being the most important part (if my early experience of Cirkus is anything to go by)? Then again, over the years, maybe Linn have ameliorated its (to my ears) negative impact on the LP12's musical performance?

As ever, YMMV.

gary yeowell posted:

To each his own as they say. I've had two Armageddon's , a couple of Lingo and several Valhalla. The Armageddon takes the music in a different direction, not bad, but certainly not 'better'. For me, a Gdd'n works with an ARO and pre Cirkus bearing, outside of that, i'm much less convinced.

I hava an Aro, so I should keep my geddon. I do have a Kore though. It sounds great. 

Fred

Alba1320 posted:

I always thought that pre-Cirkus/Ittok/Valhalla was a particularly nice, musically satisfying combo; perhaps the pre-Ciruks bit being the most important part (if my early experience of Cirkus is anything to go by)? Then again, over the years, maybe Linn have ameliorated its (to my ears) negative impact on the LP12's musical performance?

As ever, YMMV.

Alba, i think the same.... LP12 pre Cirkus, Ittok, Valhalla is a very satisfying combo. I could have left it there and been forever happy.

I've gone from ittock/Cirkus bearing/Lingo 1 to FR12/Pre Cirkus/Red Button and the two are not as different as you might imagine not night and day that is for sure.  I'm only adding the Mose Hercules to get 45rpm and Cymbiosis had a used Mose for the cost of a new onboard hercules.

My original idea was to sell the FR12 tonearm and to buy a Nima with the money but I'm really enjoying the FR12 at the moment once the Mose arrives I will take it to Alan at Audio T to fit and get him to gve the deck a once over.

I know the Nima is considered to be a poor man's Aro but I wanted to try a pre Cirkus/unipivot and the Aro or Javelin isn't financially possible so if I eventually decide to give up the FR12 it's a Nima.

Bob the Builder posted:

I know the Nima is considered to be a poor man's Aro but I wanted to try a pre Cirkus/unipivot and the Aro or Javelin isn't financially possible so if I eventually decide to give up the FR12 it's a Nima.

Subject to dem naturally but I'd be wary of throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Christopher_M posted:
Bob the Builder posted:

I know the Nima is considered to be a poor man's Aro but I wanted to try a pre Cirkus/unipivot and the Aro or Javelin isn't financially possible so if I eventually decide to give up the FR12 it's a Nima.

Subject to dem naturally but I'd be wary of throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Wise words Christopher_M.

I fitted the Hercules Mose last night not really expecting a great deal except 45rpm functionality and this old deck with the bonded subchasis and the obsolete tonearm which was sounding good anyway is sounding very good. 

I remember fitting the Lingo 1 to my old deck replacing the valhalla and it had nothing like the same improvement so I'm very pleased with it. 

Wether or not it is a coming together of all of the parts of this system I do not know because I'm not missing the now sold late 90's Cirkus/ittock/Lingo 1 LP12 or the 282.

 

 

Bob the Builder posted:
 

I fitted the Hercules Mose last night not really expecting a great deal except 45rpm functionality and this old deck with the bonded subchasis and the obsolete tonearm which was sounding good anyway is sounding very good. 

I remember fitting the Lingo 1 to my old deck replacing the valhalla and it had nothing like the same improvement so I'm very pleased with it. 

Wether or not it is a coming together of all of the parts of this system I do not know because I'm not missing the now sold late 90's Cirkus/ittock/Lingo 1 LP12 or the 282.

  

The 282 has been sold? What about the 300? May I ask what amps are you running in your system now? 

Bob the Builder posted:
Christopher_M posted:
Bob the Builder posted:

I know the Nima is considered to be a poor man's Aro but I wanted to try a pre Cirkus/unipivot and the Aro or Javelin isn't financially possible so if I eventually decide to give up the FR12 it's a Nima.

Subject to dem naturally but I'd be wary of throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Wise words Christopher_M.

I fitted the Hercules Mose last night not really expecting a great deal except 45rpm functionality and this old deck with the bonded subchasis and the obsolete tonearm which was sounding good anyway is sounding very good. 

I remember fitting the Lingo 1 to my old deck replacing the valhalla and it had nothing like the same improvement so I'm very pleased with it. 

Wether or not it is a coming together of all of the parts of this system I do not know because I'm not missing the now sold late 90's Cirkus/ittock/Lingo 1 LP12 or the 282.

Thanks.

Did you keep the DV20xL and the Dino?

Well both the 282/300 have now gone sold on to two very happy Naim Audioholics.  The only thing I will not swap are the  Dynaudio Contour speakers this humble little 180 has a grip on these big speakers that you wouldn't think possible bass is especially realistic and less boomy than the 300 could sometimes be. Together with a 102/Napsc/Hicap the 180 makes a fantastic and agile amp especially with vinyl it is very capable of producing some great sounds.

Bob the Builder posted:

Well both the 282/300 have now gone sold on to two very happy Naim Audioholics.  The only thing I will not swap are the  Dynaudio Contour speakers this humble little 180 has a grip on these big speakers that you wouldn't think possible bass is especially realistic and less boomy than the 300 could sometimes be. Together with a 102/Napsc/Hicap the 180 makes a fantastic and agile amp especially with vinyl it is very capable of producing some great sounds.

I seem to remember another forum member that preferred a 250DR over a 300 DR,he said the bass was overpowering his room with the 300.I am a Long time Dyn user too,great speakers you have there,enjoy!

I used to read posts on this and other forums that said that although their amps had become a bit smoother and more appealing to the mainstream Naim had lost something between the Olive and the new black boxes.

 I came to Naim quite late and cannot claim to have bought my first Naim amp with money saved from my paper round and had only owned a CB 32.5/90 which gave way quickly to a UQ, an Olive 250 but with a 202 and for a short time a Nat 01 that was a bit extravagant for the one or two stations that I could get so my experience of pre black box Naim was limited.  I don't know if I had a very bad 282/300 (although the people who bought them seem very happy with them) or if I have an exceptional 102/180 or if it is just system, speaker room synergy but the 102/180 just engages me so much more than the 282/300 and as strange as that may seem to many it is a fact for me.

 

Bob the Builder posted:

I used to read posts on this and other forums that said that although their amps had become a bit smoother and more appealing to the mainstream Naim had lost something between the Olive and the new black boxes.

SNIP

...102/180 or if it is just system, speaker room synergy but the 102/180 just engages me so much more than the 282/300 and as strange as that may seem to many it is a fact for me.

Doesn't seem strange at all (to me, at least).

Always nice to hear from someone who is genuinely happy with their system, whatever its makeup, and if it's the result of a supposed 'downgrade', even better!

Bob the Builder posted:

Yes the 180 is a fantastic amp when I first mentioned on this forum that I was enjoying it more than the 300 I think I was actually told that there must  be something mechanically wrong with my 300 and that perhaps I should call a doctor I mean dealer to sort it all out!

No surprise because minority may like a different presentation as opposed to strictly following the hierarchy whereby the 300 is supposed to sound better than the 250 or 200, or the 252 sounding better than the 282 and 202 etc. Perhaps speaker to amplifier or room synergy may play a role in the outcome of you preferring the 102/180 over the 282/300 but the other possibility is you prefer the looser and less controlled or lit presentation of the former, an overall sound that is looser and less defined in the bass up to the treble, based on my experience with the 202/200 and 282/250DR (the 202 should be quite similar in sound to the 102 so I'm assuming that the 102 is the 202). 

I think you are right Ryder source >> amp >> speaker >> room synergy played a big, big part in my journey and my outcome but for me although taking the same place in their respective ranges the 202/200 and the 102/180 are different sounding amps, again perhaps this was due to the speakers used and the room in which I played them but the 102/180 just has more life and musicality and bass definition.

Hi Bob

i went through a similar experience to your own a few years ago. I started my Naim journey in about 1990 with a 62/90 with a Hicap soon after. I eventually reached a fully loaded LP12 with 252/300 and SL2s.

I was becoming increasingly disillusioned with my listening experience as I was increasingly listening to hi fi and no longer listening to music. Like you, I was only playing music that I felt brought out the best in my system. I listened for detail in the music, and somehow wasn’t listening to the song as a whole.

 

i did the same as you. Sold everything and bought a Well Tempered Versalex, 52/52PS/135s/SBLs. A tt that doesn’t need upgrading and constantly tempting tweakery and the top of the olive range. A sticking point for me. And yes, I now listen to music again and enjoy my entire collection. I’m not constantly thinking of the next upgrade.

 

good luck and enjoy your music.

Peter

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