I am so sick of streaming....

An update:

First - extended thanks for the empathy and suggestions here on the forum. It is one of the reasons the forum can be a real asset to Naim owners.

I am in the midst right now of about 2 hours of dropout free listening. rjstaines (Rod, IIRC?) mentioned the channel, so I dug out some stuff I had jotted down when I had an ISP melt-down last year (at one point literally had 3 AT&T trucks in front of my house.) So I downloaded a wifi analyzer (per NFG) onto my phone and looked at all the "competition" and then logged on to my router and changed to channel 11, as it showed less traffic. Problem "solved".

I say "solved" because it is apparent that this is likely a temporary respite from the situation - with all the cable and fiber wars going on in my neighborhood, I have been convinced here that other measures need to be taken, since someone can buy a new router or extender and start competing for my bandwidth. You think people would check around the neighborhood for Naim streamers and give a wide berth for them...what is wrong with people these days?

If I can get time, I will call Naim support and investigate other measures. Airport Express, etc. and hope to come up with a final solution.

And Winky and others are probably correct that it is best to connect via ethernet, and only use the wifi for control functions. My home layout is really adverse to such, but perhaps I can come up with some solution. My home is slab on grade, so there is no below floor option,  and I (thankfully) have almost no carpet, so I can't hide cable that way either.

DrMark posted:

An update:

First - extended thanks for the empathy and suggestions here on the forum. It is one of the reasons the forum can be a real asset to Naim owners.

I am in the midst right now of about 2 hours of dropout free listening. rjstaines (Rod, IIRC?) mentioned the channel, so I dug out some stuff I had jotted down when I had an ISP melt-down last year (at one point literally had 3 AT&T trucks in front of my house.) So I downloaded a wifi analyzer (per NFG) onto my phone and looked at all the "competition" and then logged on to my router and changed to channel 11, as it showed less traffic. Problem "solved".

I say "solved" because it is apparent that this is likely a temporary respite from the situation - with all the cable and fiber wars going on in my neighborhood, I have been convinced here that other measures need to be taken, since someone can buy a new router or extender and start competing for my bandwidth. You think people would check around the neighborhood for Naim streamers and give a wide berth for them...what is wrong with people these days?

If I can get time, I will call Naim support and investigate other measures. Airport Express, etc. and hope to come up with a final solution.

And Winky and others are probably correct that it is best to connect via ethernet, and only use the wifi for control functions. My home layout is really adverse to such, but perhaps I can come up with some solution. My home is slab on grade, so there is no below floor option,  and I (thankfully) have almost no carpet, so I can't hide cable that way either.

Well at least you know what is causing it.  Maybe you can move your router closer to your 272? You need ideally to have line of sight with no solid walls or plasterboard drywalls with aluminium foil backing (I don't know whether you have that in the US?)

Regarding Ethernet cabling, if you can't go under to get a cable in, the alternatives are round the outside (you can get exterior grade Ethernet cable that won't degrade in the sun and going over it, or around the edge on the inside. It will be a pain to do, but worth the effort.

Regarding Ethernet over power adapters, the technology is horrible to contemplate but the reason they make them for those special tough situations like yours. They don't cost much, so I agree with others that it is worth a try.

And regarding channel 11 on 2.4 GHz wifi, my ISP help desk told me a while back that almost all routers default to the lower channels and only go up to 11 if they have to. So you could be lucky and find you have fixed the problem, especially as much of the newer kit will be using 5GHz wifi.

best

David

Re Ch-11 on 2.4GHz,  a friend in the city had a 'crowd' problem & I changed her ISP hub smart (auto) channel selection to fixed.  Ch 1, 6 & 11 are the only channels that do not overlap with each other & looking at the area with my analyser it looked like all the hubs defaulted to only those three.  I set hers on CH-13 & she's been on it ever since without problems.    Annoyingly my own new hub is limited to 1,6 & 11,  my old one had all channel numbers selectable,  but as I live in a village edge area were I only 'see'  three neighbours at most, sometimes none,  at wireless hub level/location,  it's not a problem.    If you can select & fix a channel outside 1, 6 & 11 it might be even better.

Regarding David's suggestion of getting the isp's router closer, I replaced my 3m ADSL cable with a 10m cat5e style ADSL cable ( fewer twisted pairs than Ethernet). This was much easier to route to my lounge than Ethernet cable and it's colour made it less noticeable. 15m is about the maximum recommended length between master socket and router. Unlike house phone cable which can have speed reduction issues, this cable had none (I could have fibre but I get 24Mbps as I am within a mile of the exchange). 

I used a wireless range extender with Ethernet port for my wife's computer and the bedrooms which lost out in the move.

Phil

Mike-B posted:

Re Ch-11 on 2.4GHz,  a friend in the city had a 'crowd' problem & I changed her ISP hub smart (auto) channel selection to fixed.  Ch 1, 6 & 11 are the only channels that do not overlap with each other & looking at the area with my analyser it looked like all the hubs defaulted to only those three.  I set hers on CH-13 & she's been on it ever since without problems.    Annoyingly my own new hub is limited to 1,6 & 11,  my old one had all channel numbers selectable,  but as I live in a village edge area were I only 'see'  three neighbours at most, sometimes none,  at wireless hub level/location,  it's not a problem.    If you can select & fix a channel outside 1, 6 & 11 it might be even better.

The channel number is the centre of the three channels you take up, so ch 11 will use 10-12 and ch 13 will use 12 -14. In the US, it's illegal to use Ch 12,13 or 14 and so DrMark's router probably won't let him go there.  Even in the UK using Ch 13 is not recommended because you cause interference with and are interfered by Ch 11, but the wifi standard can manage coexistence with other wifi signals on the same three channels much better than it can manage interference that only partly spreads over it. That is why the use of Ch 1, 6 and 11 is recommended and why using any other centre channel isn't a good idea. I could provide links to places that explain this better than me, but Richard would probably remove them. But if you google it, there are many networking and other advice sites that cover this.

best

David

Mike-B posted:
David Hendon posted:

.............    In the US, it's illegal to use Ch 12,13 or 14 and so DrMark's router probably won't let him go there. .................  

Good enough reason  !!!!     Thanks for feedback.  

I'm a radio spectrum engineer basically, so I'm a bit over-sensitised to these licensing issues!

best

David

Slightly radical suggestion. Take the NAS into the 272 room and the router from the cupboard, not you AT&T one. Connect the three together with cable. Link you phone/tablet to this new wireless network. You won't have internet connection but for playing music you don't need it. No cost solution.

CJ

CJ1045 posted:

Take the   .............    router from the cupboard,

Reminds me of someone who had their 'ugly' router hidden in a cupboard,   they complained wireless around some parts of the the house was poor.  After some persuasion they did try it on top of the same cupboard & were surprised that not only did it fix the in house coverage,  they now had a signal in the nearby garden area.   Surprising what a chunk of wood can do.  

For many routers and wifi access points don't make the best bed fellows not least for the reasons Mike describes above, but does seem to be the default for most....

 

Get one or preferably a couple or more of these - wire to your switch - and they can be powered by the ethernet lead - they come with adapters if you don't have a suitable PoE switch which I guess most on this forum won't - put them high on the ceiling or on the wall - I have one of mine next to my landing smoke alarm and they are approximately the same size. You may just find your wifi issues become a thing of the past. Price about £100 each including PoE adapter. You can set up many devices that overlap and all have the same SSID and deices then hand off and load balance between them - if you are streaming hidef wirelessly your other clients will automatically connect to one of the access points if you have them or change band channels if possible if bandwidth gets close to being an issue - really really effective... I think Naim should give them away with each streamer 

Simon

 

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

For many routers and wifi access points don't make the best bed fellows not least for the reasons Mike describes above, but does seem to be the default for most....

 

Get one or preferably a couple or more of these - wire to your switch - and they can be powered by the ethernet lead - they come with adapters if you don't have a suitable PoE switch which I guess most on this forum won't - put them high on the ceiling or on the wall - I have one of mine next to my landing smoke alarm and they are approximately the same size. You may just find your wifi issues become a thing of the past. Price about £100 each including PoE adapter. You can set up many devices that overlap and all have the same SSID and deices then hand off and load balance between them - if you are streaming hidef wirelessly your other clients will automatically connect to one of the access points if you have them or change band channels if possible if bandwidth gets close to being an issue - really really effective... I think Naim should give them away with each streamer 

Simon

 

Im off to Hyper U to get one...

 

OK Simon - pray tell what is this device? And I am not sure where it falls in the network chain, keeping in mind that my AT&T device is the modem (that is the proprietary part) and the router all in one.

So, from the photo link I found the item...being a networking luddite I am still not sure how or where it is used. I see they run about $300+ USD.

My setup is network comes into house, goes through AT&T device, which is hard-wired to my Vortexbox (and the computer that I use the browser to interface with the VB), and then everything else in the house (including the 272) is connected via w-ifi.

Drmark it is a Wifi access point - i.e. the Wifi radio on your network. You would use it and preferably others in place of the wifi on your router which you would disable. You would connect these devices to your home router switch ports or a separate switch using ethernet wire - and you would power the devices via their ethernet wire.

There are several versions - you only need the AC lite version which should be what I pictured - i.e. the Ubiquiti UniFi AP AC Lite. They are around £80 in the UK online and so I would expect $80 or better in the US.

In your setup it might be that you hardwire these Access Points to your AT&T device .... have a look at the manufacturer's website and get a feel whether its something you might be comfortable embarking upon. Try and have at least two Access Points overlapping where your steamer would be...

S

Well go to metageek dot com and look at chanalyzerm and the spectrum analysis hardware. If you are going to run critical services over wifi then at least know what is going on.  The cost is not cheap, but trivial in comparison with expensive hifi kit

If it all looks too complex, then get the hardware and get a mate to use it at your house for you. 

Otherwise you are just mucking around in the dark.

jon honeyball posted:

Well go to metageek dot com and look at chanalyzerm and the spectrum analysis hardware. If you are going to run critical services over wifi then at least know what is going on.  The cost is not cheap, but trivial in comparison with expensive hifi kit

If it all looks too complex, then get the hardware and get a mate to use it at your house for you. 

Otherwise you are just mucking around in the dark.

The  Unifi products have spectrum analysis capability built in and you can initiate a scan so they use the less congested  and noise free channels. The spectrum analysis can be undertaken for 2.4GHz and 5GHz bands. They will also show you how much data you are losing through noise and congestion if it occurs. Without this sort of basic capability wifi is just a complete gamble.. and the nice thing is none of this has to be complicated, the devices take care of it for you - you just need to instruct the AP to do the scans and it does the rest. Obviously when scanning that AP is out of service - but with overlapping APs this is not an issue.

 

DrMark posted:

OK Simon - pray tell what is this device? And I am not sure where it falls in the network chain, keeping in mind that my AT&T device is the modem (that is the proprietary part) and the router all in one.

So, from the photo link I found the item...being a networking luddite I am still not sure how or where it is used. I see they run about $300+ USD.

My setup is network comes into house, goes through AT&T device, which is hard-wired to my Vortexbox (and the computer that I use the browser to interface with the VB), and then everything else in the house (including the 272) is connected via w-ifi.

Ubiquiti Networks UAP-AC PRO-5

Available from muddy river $188 your side of the pond, but the U in the centre is similar to our Hyper U shop logo.

I had a pair of unifi pro ones very expensive and I sent them back as they were so slow. However I have had superb results from the bt whole home ones which are basically the same (Not as sophisticated in regards to the settings/server etc) 

 

I would caveat that mine are all hard wired which makes a large difference but they are superb, save a few buckeroos against the unifi stuff.

Cant speak for the 'pro' sounds like you had some faulty stock  - I recommend the AP AC lite - very fast, effective and dual banded for Naim and newer devices using 802.11ac. The lite versions are around £80 / $80. Your wifi woes should be a thing of the past if setup well with good overlapping coverage .. I think Naim have used these successfully for certain 'choice' deployments - but Phil would need to comment. I was streaming Hidef video realtime with other devices connected with no noticeable performance hit yesterday evening - very impressed

 

I did find the "lites" in the $80 range. Thank you.

However, at the risk of being dubbed someone who is too dense to stream; if I attach one or 2 of these to my router (assuming I can disable the wifi on it without screwing it up...my big fear is that I jack up the whole thing and suddenly not only do I have streaming issues, but then I have no internet and nothing else works) - I am apparently constrained to them being in the room where by router is? (If they are connected via ethernet how would I be expected to get them to other parts of the house, or is simply raising it up high enough of an improvement? - I would think not.)

To get the most out of these devices they need to be wired with Ethernet cables to your router. The Ethernet cable can carry power as well as data so you don't need to worry about powering them separately. However, if you're going to have to expend effort to lay in cables to position the access points at their best locations you might as well consider getting an Ethernet cable to your streamer...

Fair question. Disabling the wifi on your broadband router shouldn't affect your broadband connectivity. 

As far as connecting  the APs you would need to connect them via Ethernet to your router switch ports - so in the limit you could run ethernet cable underneath carpet, tack to skirting board, put in trunking etc. Yes put them high up if possible and perhaps one on each floor if you have a multi floor house. The more you use - the lower the signal strength needs to be and less susceptible to interference they become. Your wired network essentially becomes for the most part the connections to the wifi access points for your house - and NAS and other more intensive things in your study using or equivalent using wired ethernet.

S

Adrian_P posted:

... However, if you're going to have to expend effort to lay in cables to position the access points at their best locations you might as well consider getting an Ethernet cable to your streamer...

I don't disagree with the logic - but the Access Points can be in halls, lobbies and landings and may be easier to route cabling than in the living room or music room

I was having wireless streaming issues with a Muso Qb which was in the kitchen with sound dropping at regular intervals (several times during every song) and it not being seen in the app on occasions.  So basically I had stopped using it and it just sat there looking good for a couple of months.

My ISP supplied router died the other week and I bought a Netgear replacement and thought I'd give the Muso Qb another try and it streams wirelessly utterly perfectly now.  Even full fat FLAC CD rips transcoded to WAV.  Now I'm using it every day.

Dr. Mark -  Some of your issues may be related to wifi stability and but also to sensitivity of Naim streamers.  My wi-fi issues with a single Apple Airport were resolved when I switched to an wireless mesh system from Eero that utilizes 3 units strategically placed for wide coverage.   The system is rock solid now 24/7.  My steaming source (UltraRendu from Sonore and Sonic Transporter server) is rock solid, very simple to use and sounds amazing..   I also live in NC, so contact me if you wish to discuss.   Bruce in Winston-Salem, NC. 

I have not read through this whole thing so maybe it was addressed

 

I have Comcast and have the same stupid situation with Comcast router/modem.   But the fix is easy   I had an Apple modem....now eero.  Just chat online with ATT to ask them to put your modem/router into bridge mode.  I did it myself but they can do it also online.  Then you still pay the $7 a month for crappy modem but you can use your own router.  It seriously takes 5 minutes

Kendrick posted:

Dr. Mark -  Some of your issues may be related to wifi stability and but also to sensitivity of Naim streamers.  My wi-fi issues with a single Apple Airport were resolved when I switched to an wireless mesh system from Eero that utilizes 3 units strategically placed for wide coverage.   The system is rock solid now 24/7.  My steaming source (UltraRendu from Sonore and Sonic Transporter server) is rock solid, very simple to use and sounds amazing..   I also live in NC, so contact me if you wish to discuss.   Bruce in Winston-Salem, NC. 

Good to hear.. hopefully more and more will realise the benefits of proper wifi with overlapping and participating access points and get away from the far from optimal but sadly default for many option of having the broadband router or any router control the wifi and using  single isolated SSIDs ... perhaps then people will have better confidence in wifi which if set up properly has the potential of being as effective as wired connections for many applications such as audio streaming...  and 'stuff' will just work better for many

I'm a new owner of a ND5XS (and this is my first posting to Naim Forum).  Thankfully, I'm experiencing no problems with a wireless connection - but I put that down to having sorted my wifi ills beforehand by purchasing Google WiFi.   My Sky modem/router is at the front of the house, my stereo system (and the laptop on which I'm typing this) is in an extension at the back of the house.  Between them is a whacking great RSJ, supported by two upright RSJs, which holds up what used to be the end wall of the house, before the extension was built.  This seemed to act like some kind of Faraday cage, preventing the wifi signal from the router reaching the rear with any consistency.  The Google WiFi has solved all that.  It has a couple of units; one is connected directly to the original modem/router and the other is placed nearby the "not spot" (there's an app that tests the signal strength to help you find the best location) to create a wifi mesh.  It operates with 2.4 and 5 GHz devices, automatically selects the least congested channel and switches connection to the unit with the strongest signal as you carry your mobile devices around. You can add more units to extend the coverage indefinitely.  I believe other systems like this are available but this one has worked a treat for me.

Cliffh posted:

I'm a new owner of a ND5XS (and this is my first posting to Naim Forum).  Thankfully, I'm experiencing no problems with a wireless connection - but I put that down to having sorted my wifi ills beforehand by purchasing Google WiFi.   My Sky modem/router is at the front of the house, my stereo system (and the laptop on which I'm typing this) is in an extension at the back of the house.  Between them is a whacking great RSJ, supported by two upright RSJs, which holds up what used to be the end wall of the house, before the extension was built.  This seemed to act like some kind of Faraday cage, preventing the wifi signal from the router reaching the rear with any consistency.  The Google WiFi has solved all that.  It has a couple of units; one is connected directly to the original modem/router and the other is placed nearby the "not spot" (there's an app that tests the signal strength to help you find the best location) to create a wifi mesh.  It operates with 2.4 and 5 GHz devices, automatically selects the least congested channel and switches connection to the unit with the strongest signal as you carry your mobile devices around. You can add more units to extend the coverage indefinitely.  I believe other systems like this are available but this one has worked a treat for me.

With apologies for the slight delay - welcome to the Forum, Cliff!

I have been using the Unifi APs that Simon recommends for a couple of years now without any issues. We have a 3 story, thick walled Edwardian House with the modem, router and broadband connection all in the corner of a top floor study, where originally a modem just fed a local PC before all this talk of home wi-fi and streaming. Once a wi-fi router was introduced of course the signal in the ground floor living areas was pretty poor and we struggled until getting the Unifi products, having been through quite a few range extenders etc, which were all more trouble than they were worth.  In the interim while re-modelling the kitchen I ran ethernet outside the house from the router to a cupboard in the kitchen serving a 24 port switch. All of the downstairs rooms now have hard wired ethernet from the switch. We replaced some badly cracking ceilings around the same time so used the opportunity to run ethernet everywhere on the ground floor. Hi-Fi and TVs are all hard wired, and everybody now gets a strong wi-fi signal for phones, tablets and laptops from the Unifis.

My Unifi APs needed to be near power outlets as I don't have a PoE switch. One sits on top of a kitchen cupboard and one sits behind the sofa in the living room.  I still have my router kick out a wi-fi signal (never thought of disabling this) and that covers the top and middle floors of the house with the Unifis covering the ground floor in rooms where the doors are often closed (bloody pets and loud music). 

I guess the moral is - don't be afraid to use the outside of your house with properly rated ethernet cable to reach otherwise problematic areas, if you don't fancy ripping through walls, floors and ceilings. 

Eloise posted:

Networking and especially wireless can be fickle things.  Everything is supposed to be compatible but I find there can be problems and not just with Naim.  Two examples...

I have Sky broadband... if I let my iPad connect to the Sky Q Hub direct, 50% of the time I can’t SSH to my Linux servers.  If I connect to an AirPort Extreme there is no issue.

And (more directly relevant to Naim) because I have TV, Naim 272 and a Sky box together, I run a cable to a small switch then onto each device.  Never had drop outs in use, but the Naim “fulls off” the network when using a Belkin switch, with the Netgear GS105 switch I’ve just swapped in so far (in 7 days) the Naim hasn’t fallen off the network at all.  And the Belkin switch is works fine for the Uniti Qute in a similar situation upstairs where the Netgear came from.

Interestingly I was doing some network 'updating' of a friend's network the other weekend - we were using a smattering of Netear GS108 and GS116 switches and we did find that the GS116's that we had did have stability issues when used with SkyQ kit whereas the GS108's didn't ... as it is we were able to "get away" with using the 108's rather than the 116's for the SkyQ boxes (and I've not had any issues with the 116's other wise except for a very early 5v DC version - the current ones are 12v DC) so we were OK in the end.

Phil

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Cant speak for the 'pro' sounds like you had some faulty stock  - I recommend the AP AC lite - very fast, effective and dual banded for Naim and newer devices using 802.11ac. The lite versions are around £80 / $80. Your wifi woes should be a thing of the past if setup well with good overlapping coverage .. I think Naim have used these successfully for certain 'choice' deployments - but Phil would need to comment. I was streaming Hidef video realtime with other devices connected with no noticeable performance hit yesterday evening - very impressed

 

I use them myself (I have three UAP-AC Pro's at home) and generally tend to try to insist that if someone asks me to give them a hand with their networking woes (as a favour or whatever) then they are open to using these rather than cheap-and-cheerful stuff from PC World or Maplin ...

Had years of trying to cadjole our old MDs network at home into behaving as he insised on using multiple wireless extenders and not running cables around (I know - go figure!) but eventually after many months of hassling him I got his (or more appropriately, his good ladies) OK to string a few network cables and slap in a trio of the Unifi APs as a test and of course it all worked...

I've used them in many situations now - I understand that the Rukus stuff is good too but I haven't used any of that.

Phil

 

Phil Harris posted:
Eloise posted:

Networking and especially wireless can be fickle things.  Everything is supposed to be compatible but I find there can be problems and not just with Naim.  Two examples...

I have Sky broadband... if I let my iPad connect to the Sky Q Hub direct, 50% of the time I can’t SSH to my Linux servers.  If I connect to an AirPort Extreme there is no issue.

And (more directly relevant to Naim) because I have TV, Naim 272 and a Sky box together, I run a cable to a small switch then onto each device.  Never had drop outs in use, but the Naim “fulls off” the network when using a Belkin switch, with the Netgear GS105 switch I’ve just swapped in so far (in 7 days) the Naim hasn’t fallen off the network at all.  And the Belkin switch is works fine for the Uniti Qute in a similar situation upstairs where the Netgear came from.

Interestingly I was doing some network 'updating' of a friend's network the other weekend - we were using a smattering of Netear GS108 and GS116 switches and we did find that the GS116's that we had did have stability issues when used with SkyQ kit whereas the GS108's didn't ... as it is we were able to "get away" with using the 108's rather than the 116's for the SkyQ boxes (and I've not had any issues with the 116's other wise except for a very early 5v DC version - the current ones are 12v DC) so we were OK in the end.

Phil

Yes another case of possible questionable consumer 'home network' equipment... seems to be the cause of so much frustration. SkyQ uses layer 2 ethernet addressing with no layer 3 IP addressing for some of its host addresses. This is, or should be, regular and standard ethernet capability  however it appears that certain consumer devices may be  struggling here because the typical web or social media user uses web applications that always have a layer 3 address and so perhaps haven't bothered to do complete implementations in these switch devices, just like some consumer routers for example struggle with multicast etc

 

So I would rephrase: " Home consumer networking and especially home consumer wireless can be fickle things.......", you can see why Sky installers prefer not to use consumer home networking equipment with their SkyQ boxes if they can help it

Yes mesh  systems can be great.. but care is required in their implantation to ensure you have sufficient wired mesh access points if congestion isn't to cause issues in sustained transfers. About 18 months ago did some analysis of mesh system with a major Chinese IT manufacturer and it was quite interesting.... certainly not a silver bullet. I do think some consumer mesh systems are targeted to consumers as a remedy to provide extended wifi range with one or minimal wired connected access point... it will work but performance will fall off if the mesh gets busy in many circumstances.

My view for the simple home user implementation with max performance and sustained transfer for hidef streaming and extended reach  is overlapping wired access points running an ESSID with hand off and load balancing between the participating and wired access points.

Mike-B posted:

Re Ch-11 on 2.4GHz,  a friend in the city had a 'crowd' problem & I changed her ISP hub smart (auto) channel selection to fixed.  Ch 1, 6 & 11 are the only channels that do not overlap with each other & looking at the area with my analyser it looked like all the hubs defaulted to only those three.  I set hers on CH-13 & she's been on it ever since without problems.    Annoyingly my own new hub is limited to 1,6 & 11,  my old one had all channel numbers selectable,  but as I live in a village edge area were I only 'see'  three neighbours at most, sometimes none,  at wireless hub level/location,  it's not a problem.    If you can select & fix a channel outside 1, 6 & 11 it might be even better.

Mike the generally  accepted preferred way of handling channels is to use multiple access points operating an ESSID that will adapt their channels based on conditions. This approach is usually better as the wifi signal used is more attenuated and causes less interference and the channels can vary between access point zones. Having a single access point 'beaming' out potentially a highish power signal (with the client also potentially needing to use high power) is usually deemed bad practice and most susceptible to interference and causing interference as well as liable to much data loss/poor performance , but sadly is the default for many home users who use bundled broadband router and wifi access point. It's quite telling when you do a spectrum scan there is often much interference/sharing of the bandwidth with sources nothing to with wifi or wifi channels, and also increasingly you 'see' vehicles with their own wifi zone and this can be quite transient. Also I wouldn't get too concerned by overlapping channels per se... you really should let your wifi access point auto select it's channel and NOT lock it down, unless there are specific reasons not to... i.e. Your access point auto selection process is faulty, doesn't exist or you have specific point to point requirements.

I agree with Simon that multiple managed wired access points will give the best overall performance. But there can be a technical and financial cost. I use Meraki, which is both highly performant and easy to use, but it's expensive.

Consumer mesh wifi is improving quite quickly. eero's second generation kit for example includes a third radio which significantly improves performance over the original units.

I think for most people products like Netgear's Orbi and eero are a great solution to whole house wifi if you don't have a wired network and need a plug and play solution to work with your internet providers router/modem. In the early days these systems didn't quite deliver on the promised enterprise class wifi at a fraction of the cost and complexity. They are now getting closer especially if they have a third radio.

Indeed, I forgot to say.. the other gotcha if you are in a crowded area is best ensure on 2.4 GHz you are using 20MHz channel spacing as opposed to 40 MHz, especially if you are using a single highish power access point ... otherwise your performance may well suffer as well as neighbour's performance as you may well be causing interference. If using 40MHz best use multiple participating low power access points, and you should see a significant performance boost on 2.4GHz

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