I am so sick of streaming....

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Yes mesh  systems can be great.. but care is required in their implantation to ensure you have sufficient wired mesh access points if congestion isn't to cause issues in sustained transfers. About 18 months ago did some analysis of mesh system with a major Chinese IT manufacturer and it was quite interesting.... certainly not a silver bullet. I do think some consumer mesh systems are targeted to consumers as a remedy to provide extended wifi range with one or minimal wired connected access point... it will work but performance will fall off if the mesh gets busy in many circumstances.

My view for the simple home user implementation with max performance and sustained transfer for hidef streaming and extended reach  is overlapping wired access points running an ESSID with hand off and load balancing between the participating and wired access points.

Afternoon Simon

If I have multiple Wireless Access Points is this as simple as assigning the same name to each, or do I have to also set one WAP as a slave to the other and also manage the IP Addresses?

Hi - don't worry about IP addresses - wifi works at a lower layer than that. if you have have multiple wireless access points on the same wired network subnet and SSID then you have created an ESSID. Now assuming your security settings are common to the wireless group of access points your client can roam between the access points - and your client should do this when the signal level gets low on the connected access point and it can see a stronger access point within the ESSID. IF you do set up your ESSID this way you should ensure your access points either select their own channels or you manually assign different channels for the access points.

Now when this roaming happens there is a small interruption to the network connectivity which can cause issues with some applications. Therefore there is something called Fast Roaming (802.11r) which tries to improve this and this is a protocol that allows the access points to assist the roaming of the client more quickly. Now this is where you find different vendors implement this as is or with their own proprietary extensions .. Ubiquiti for example add proprietary extensions with their second generation access points to enable a smoother and quicker roaming experience... - but ideally this should be transparent to you...

So to your point there should be no master or slave - you simply add the access points via ethernet to your switch with the same SSID and security - and depending on vendor of access point you use you  will get more smart features that help  clients to move between access points - but without any smarts and using a basic service set  access point (BSS) it will still work but the  client does all the work and the roaming decision will be based on signal strength (a bit like mobile phones) as opposed to an advanced ESS access point which can encourage clients to roam for other reasons. 

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Hi - don't worry about IP addresses - wifi works at a lower layer than that. if you have have multiple wireless access points on the same wired network subnet and SSID then you have created an ESSID. Now assuming your security settings are common to the wireless group of access points your client can roam between the access points - and your client should do this when the signal level gets low on the connected access point and it can see a stronger access point within the ESSID. IF you do set up your ESSID this way you should ensure your access points either select their own channels or you manually assign different channels for the access points.

Now when this roaming happens there is a small interruption to the network connectivity which can cause issues with some applications. Therefore there is something called Fast Roaming (802.11r) which tries to improve this and this is a protocol that allows the access points to assist the roaming of the client more quickly. Now this is where you find different vendors implement this as is or with their own proprietary extensions .. Ubiquiti for example add proprietary extensions with their second generation access points to enable a smoother and quicker roaming experience... - but ideally this should be transparent to you...

So to your point there should be no master or slave - you simply add the access points via ethernet to your switch with the same SSID and security - and depending on vendor of access point you use you  will get more smart features that help  clients to move between access points - but without any smarts and using a basic service set  access point (BSS) it will still work but the  client does all the work and the roaming decision will be based on signal strength (a bit like mobile phones) as opposed to an advanced ESS access point which can encourage clients to roam for other reasons. 

Cheers Simon

I'll give that a try then and see how well it works... Be interesting to see how it fares, and whether I can then use Multiroom with the Uniti and Qb

Penarth Blues posted:

Afternoon Simon

If I have multiple Wireless Access Points is this as simple as assigning the same name to each, or do I have to also set one WAP as a slave to the other and also manage the IP Addresses?

Hi PB,

It's not that simplistic ... if you simply dot around access points with the same SSID and passkey then your wireless device will often simply connect to the first access point that replies to is (not necessarily the closest / strongest) and will hang on to that access point until it can no longer hold a connection to it and will then try to reconnect again and will often reconnect to the first access point that replies ... again, not necessarily the closest / strongest one.

If you do want to do it properly then you should use Access Points that have at least basic co-operation or hand-off *OR* you can set the access points with different SSIDs and manually connect to whichever one you want to.

I've never been a fan of manually setting WiFi channels as - unless you have absolutely no-one else close enough to be visible to you on a WiFi scan - then you can't guarantee that the channels that you pick because they're clear one day will still be clear another day - you could end up in a far worse situation by fixing channels.

Cheers

Phil

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

<< SNIP >>

Now assuming your security settings are common to the wireless group of access points your client can roam between the access points - and your client should do this when the signal level gets low on the connected access point and it can see a stronger access point within the ESSID.

<<SNIP>>

I'd like to emphasise the *SHOULD* there ...

Phil

Dr Mark:  I may have missed this but from your reference to AT&T U-verse and dollar costs, I assume you are in the US?  (I wish people would put their locations in their profiles.)  You can get an AT&T modem without router capabilities and use any router you wish, which may help with WiFi signal strength.  I also don't know if the 272 can use 5 Ghz WiFi - if it can, there is usually much less interference ("crowding") on this bad that the 2.4 GHz band.

I feel your pain - Most Naim dealers in the US are cr_p  when it comes to technical support, hence the popularity of this forum!  

Nil carborundum!

 

 

 

Phil Harris posted:

I'd like to emphasise the *SHOULD* there ...

Indeed, and to be a little deterministic about it, it does all depend on the on the protocols the wifi client and to some extent the AP supports.

802.11k support allows the client to listen around and create an optimised list of channels that it will try when it's current AP falls below a certain threshold

802.11r support allows Fast Roaming or Fast Basic Set Transition or FT for short that allows the client and access points  to undertake  high speed secure hand offs. 

802.11v support allows the client to learn about the topology from a participating access point so the client can switch to a more appropriate access point based on various criteria like congestion etc. This is ideal for static clients with dynamic wifi loading.

So unless you look at the tech small print on your client and know the capability of your access point you won't know the exact behaviour to expect, however the very latest Apple iOS devices for example support all three, with 802.11r being the most recently added.

So a question to Naim, Phil?, does Naim support 802.11v in the streamers, Muso and Qb ?

Cassette, I don't think so.. different bias types, different tape types and different Dolby settings, not to mention bias current and frequency when recording... 

and don't get me started on vinyl replay with weights, pressures, arm lengths, cartridge impedance matching, phono preamp gain, Yada Yada Yada  ... give me streaming any day at least that can be simple, plug and play  and sound good with the right equipment...... and yes CD is pretty fool proof as well as long as the wretched things aren't scratched...

Ravenswood10 posted:

It used to be so simple when we used to put a record on, shoved the radio on or dare I say it put a cassette on. These days it seems you have to be a computer programmer - heeelp - beam me up!

yes, "plug and play " was before streaming era. All was so more simple.   Only difficulty:  stand up from the sofa and find a cd to play.

And I also run a fully restored Revox B77 - no Dolby, no hiss and just one RMG 911 tape formulation. Jason G from Naim was here a couple of weeks ago and had an oggle. Put a tape on and the look on his face was priceless. I suggested they took one to shows to demo with the Statements!

French Rooster posted:
Ravenswood10 posted:

It used to be so simple when we used to put a record on, shoved the radio on or dare I say it put a cassette on. These days it seems you have to be a computer programmer - heeelp - beam me up!

yes, "plug and play " was before streaming era. All was so more simple.   Only difficulty:  stand up from the sofa and find a cd to play.

Just think of the exercise though!

Ravenswood10 posted:

And I also run a fully restored Revox B77 - no Dolby, no hiss and just one RMG 911 tape formulation. Jason G from Naim was here a couple of weeks ago and had an oggle. Put a tape on and the look on his face was priceless. I suggested they took one to shows to demo with the Statements!

Good for you , apart from a secondment I had with the BBC, where one of the engineers impressively demonstrated  to me an awe inspiring  BBC  studio filling sound from a humble Philips C60 I provided that he carefully optimised his Nakamichi for,... my experience with cassette was less successful, lot of faff. and usually mild disappointment, but reel to reels I did have more success with..... but hardly plug and play..

 

Only a glorified piece of eye candy. Fancied one since I was a student in the 1980s. Lots of so called servicing people  out there but only one outfit who still works on the big Studers and Otaris for recording studios. Labour of love with new heads, capstan and a  complete electronics overhaul. Daft really but I had to do it given the history of this machine. I still have the original purchase receipt from 1980. Sad but true. Even the original Nextel case was resprayed in a Germany.

Ravenswood10 posted:
French Rooster posted:
Ravenswood10 posted:

It used to be so simple when we used to put a record on, shoved the radio on or dare I say it put a cassette on. These days it seems you have to be a computer programmer - heeelp - beam me up!

yes, "plug and play " was before streaming era. All was so more simple.   Only difficulty:  stand up from the sofa and find a cd to play.

Just think of the exercise though!

Yes indeed Ravenswood... the exercise is the only reason I've kept a record player (or two).

 

(Well alright, if pushed I'll admit I do rather like the sound of vinyl... but the exercise is still a very important reason for owning a deck).

 

Phil Harris posted:
Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

<< SNIP >>

Now assuming your security settings are common to the wireless group of access points your client can roam between the access points - and your client should do this when the signal level gets low on the connected access point and it can see a stronger access point within the ESSID.

<<SNIP>>

I'd like to emphasise the *SHOULD* there ...

Phil

Thank you Simon and Phil for taking the time to post on this. I currently have my two WAP's set up with different SSID's and the transition between them is not well handled by any of my phones or laptops so I'm guessing that this won't improve by having them both with the same SSID. On the other hand, it's already rubbish so at least I might be able to finally use multi-room with my Uniti2 and Qb

I'll have a play at setting them to the same SSID and see what happens...

Ravenswood10 posted:
French Rooster posted:
Ravenswood10 posted:

It used to be so simple when we used to put a record on, shoved the radio on or dare I say it put a cassette on. These days it seems you have to be a computer programmer - heeelp - beam me up!

yes, "plug and play " was before streaming era. All was so more simple.   Only difficulty:  stand up from the sofa and find a cd to play.

Just think of the exercise though!

i was more thinking of the diffculty to find the cd to hear.....it is simplier on the ipad. But it is the only thing that is simplier, the rest can be a nightmare, and i hate computers.  If the sound quality was not a step better than cd replay, i would never bought the nds.

While I use a Naim DAC with XPS Power Supply, I do not have a Naim Audio streamer. This was a cost decision. I couldn't afford it so I have a computer based front end. I run a dual PC setup with JPLAY/Audiophile Optimizer/Process Lasso/Minimserver. Connection between the two PCs is by Ethernet cable. I remote control the system from a Samsung tablet. It has been a long and difficult road but now it works ... Sort of! Has it been worth all the grief? In so much as my computer front end and DAC produced a better sound than my CDS2 then it probably was.

Despite the fact that David Tennant will appear on TV advertisements extolling the virtues of the a certain ISP, the problem is without doubt, WiFi. There is one thing that you need to know about WiFi. If you want to send an email or order a CD from Amazon then it works fine. To provide a stable linkage in an audio replay system, it is about as much use a a chocolate teapot! WiFi performance can also be variable. Some days it works better than others. One solution is to move the Samsung tablet to the kitchen, where WiFi reception is better. Another more workable solution is to control the system using software installed on my Control PC (Upplay) so that the system is not WiFi dependent.

It seems advisable when setting up a streaming system, to ensure that one is educated in computer science, preferably to master's degree level! I cannot really office advice as I don't have that technical knowledge. The only advice that I might offer is to ensure that you leave some of your budget to have the system professionally configured. If I had a lot of money, which I don't, I would go to my Naim dealer and ask them to do the installation. Prior to this installation, I would put it in writing that if their installed system did not work reliably, then I would expect a full refund.

I guess that the optimal solution to an unreliable streaming system is to turn it off and get out a vinyl album. It sounds better as well!

Good luck to all those who are struggling to establish reliable streaming in their systems

The problems people talk about with streaming are mostly network problems, not the streaming process.

Wifi is radio. As with any radio signal, propagation is affected by the physical environment e.g. walls and what they are made of, and the electromagnetic environment, e.g other competing transmissions, which can be from neighbouring properties, and not just other wifi networks, and the job of the wireless router and the connected gear is to manage to get a usable signal through. That is all in addition to coping load put on the network by different devices as must wired networks. Therefore whilst whilst wifi can and often does provide a good stable network, it is unsurprising that it can be fraught with greater problems. And if the cause of a problem is radio interference from some external source it can be nigh on impossible to identify or solve the cause, especially if intermittent.

Wired networks can also have problems, usually related to their complexity and setup, and usually easier to resolve. This is why wired is generally regarded as better - and having the store and renderer combined completely solves the problem except for online streaming or wanting to stream to other rooms.

 

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:
<<SNIP>>

So a question to Naim, Phil?, does Naim support 802.11v in the streamers, Muso and Qb ?

Hi SiS,

No - 802.11v isn't really an appropriate standard to support on the streamers as it's not really applicable to a device that stays stationary within a wireless network - it's more suited to devices that are "mobile" within a network ...

On the new Uniti platform we do support  MIMO 802.11AC which is more appropriate for what is a stationary device on a wireless LAN.

Best

Phil

Phil, not quite, I think you might be referring to 802.11r and 802.11k which are for roaming, and ideal for mobile clients.  

802.11v is about client  WLAN topology discovery / load balancing and power saving and is used for stationary as well as mobile devices. The topology discovery is particularly beneficial for assisted roams to help load balancing in dynamic network load environments ... so if a use starts streaming video on YouTube 802.11v can help a connected client offload to a more suitable but perhaps slightly weaker AP. So 802.11v would be great for streamers operating with certain overlapping APs to provide an enhanced and reliable wifi experience in lossless HD streams.. with dynamic (household) wifi loading.

You should not confuse with MIMO which is something quite different and is more about RF signal management for access   ... Mimo is fine for managing reach for multiple clients of different strengths but has minimal effect on SSID throughput under dynamic loading conditions with multiple access points.

May I suggest Naim  consider  for future driver firmware updates... it could just transform Naim streamer wifi functionality where the customer has set up an ESSID, i.e. Multiple access points sharing a subnet and the same SSID.... and it seems a shame to exclude with the resultant drop in real world usability..

Cheers

Hi there,

Sorry for stepping in late, but maybe I can help. If I read your original post correctly, your network is fine, and the SBT works fine, it's only the Naim 272 that has problems. In my mind that means it's the Naim that needs fixing, not the modem, router, etc... Two other things: I like using Roon to control my music playback, it's light years ahead of every other music app I've tried (including iTunes and Naim's own); my family likes streaming via Airplay. The 272 doesn't support either, so even if you get the streaming gremlins sorted, you'll be stuck with Naim's UI. What I did in my system, is shell out a colossal $35 and solve all of the above at one fell swoop.

1. Pick up a Raspberry Pi 3 on Amazon

2. Pick up the recommended cheap micro-USB power supply at the same time

3. Pick up a 8-16 Gb SD card from SanDisk at the same time

4. Follow the directions on the DietPi website (not allowed to provide a link, sorry), but if you google DietPi you'll find it. Once at their website, click "Getting Started" scroll down, and click "Getting Started for step-by-step.

5. Do Step 1

6. Do Step 2, including the optional WiFi part (you can turn it off later, but turn it on to begin with to make everything else easier)

7. Do Step 3

8. Do Step 4

9. Do Step 5 and install the Shairport and RoonBridge packages. Shairport will give you Airplay, Roon Bridge will give you Roon if you wish to try it out (free trial)

The Raspberry Pi can stay on WiFi, or you can hardwire it via ethernet. Works fine both ways and will give you bit-perfect USB input into your 272. If you prefer S/PDIF or BNC even, go to HiFiBerry and get the appropriate digi+ board.

I know, it sounds complicated, but it took me 30 minutes to set up the first time, and I've never used one of these before. Ever since, it's been flawless, high resolution, bit perfect streaming all day every day. Worst case, your out $50 (including Pi, power supply, and SD card). Don't get suckered into expensive power supplies and USB cables, they don't make a difference if your DAC is galvanically isolated and isochronous (I believe the 272 is both).

You'll feel empowered. Let me know if you have questions and I'll help if I can.

Best,

---Pedro

Yes, the power over Ethernet connectors come with the AP AC lites when you buy the access points individually. I suspect unless you are network savvy that is how most will use them.

For those who are network savvy and wish to bespoke, the UAP AC lites are not 802.3af or 802.3at compliant so if powering by a regular PoE switch you need a Ubiquiti 802.3af converter in line on your Ethernet lead  anyway. The Ubiquiti own series of switches however support directly powering all their devices attached to the switches...in which case the power adapter supplied with the AP AC Lite becomes redundant... keep it in your box of useful 'stuff'

As I say this is irrelevant if you use the AP AC lite as it is supplied with its own Power over Ethernet adapter... simples. PoE is the way where you can to go to cut down clutter,mains wiring and the number of small SMPS you have 

 

perizoqui posted:

Sorry for stepping in late, but maybe I can help. If I read your original post correctly, your network is fine, and the SBT works fine, it's only the Naim 272 that has problems. In my mind that means it's the Naim that needs fixing, not the modem, router, etc...

I think you missed the point which is that Naim NAC-N 272 (along with all Naim units) use standard networking protocols.  The problem is that not all routers (especially the built to a cost ones supplied by ISPs) support things properly.

As commented above, all ISPs are interested in is ensuring your Internet browsing and email works.

Eloise posted:

I think you missed the point which is that Naim NAC-N 272 (along with all Naim units) use standard networking protocols.  The problem is that not all routers (especially the built to a cost ones supplied by ISPs) support things properly.

Sorry if I did. I thought the point was that his other hardware worked, while the NAC N-272 didn't. Doesn't seem he's got internet problems in his house, AT&T modem/routers aren't the best in the world, but they do work. Further, the 272 lacks some of the streaming capabilities possible with the new Uniti range (e.g. airplay). So I suggested a cheap and excellent way to solve both problems at a stroke. But it's just a suggestion based on my experience. He doesn't have to follow it 

perizoqui posted:
Eloise posted:

I think you missed the point which is that Naim NAC-N 272 (along with all Naim units) use standard networking protocols.  The problem is that not all routers (especially the built to a cost ones supplied by ISPs) support things properly.

Sorry if I did. I thought the point was that his other hardware worked, while the NAC N-272 didn't. Doesn't seem he's got internet problems in his house, AT&T modem/routers aren't the best in the world, but they do work. Further, the 272 lacks some of the streaming capabilities possible with the new Uniti range (e.g. airplay). So I suggested a cheap and excellent way to solve both problems at a stroke. But it's just a suggestion based on my experience. He doesn't have to follow it 

the problem at the beginning of this topic was simple :  the op runs his 272  wirelessly. It is not the best way to stream with high end devices.  It is not 272 or ndx problems or limitations. With lan cables, the ndx is a very good product , no need raspberry or microrendu or anything else: just good lans.

French Rooster posted:

the problem at the beginning of this topic was simple :  the op runs his 272  wirelessly. It is not the best way to stream with high end devices.  It is not 272 or ndx problems or limitations. With lan cables, the ndx is a very good product , no need raspberry or microrendu or anything else: just good lans.

The 272 is advertised as a wireless device. Just like the SBT (which the OP says works fine), the Apple TV, and the Raspberry Pi (to name only a few). If they work, but the 272 doesn't, then the wireless implementation on the 272 is not as robust as it should be. Using cables would solve that problem, but create another (routing cables through walls/ceilings/both). That's why folks buy wireless devices, so they won't need to route cables.

So the problem is simple, as is the solution you propose. The solution I propose is different, but also simple. The OP will have to decide if he wants to run cables, or not. The solution I proposed isn't bad. It's not a non-solution. It's not missing the point. It's just a different solution. One that allows the OP to stream wirelessly as he originally intended. I've tried both solutions, yours and mine, and I like mine better. Because it adds airplay and Roon to the mix. And also because wireless is convenient.

Personally, if I'd bought a $5,995 wireless streamer that didn't stream wirelessly, I'd be disappointed. If folks told me the solution was to not stream wirelessly, I'd find that less than helpful. If I felt like it came from an intolerance to hearing anything even remotely critical of the manufacturer, I'd be irritated. Wireless streamers should stream wirelessly. If a SBT can do it, a $5,995 Naim NAC N-272 should be able to do it.

perizoqui posted:

Personally, if I'd bought a $5,995 wireless streamer that didn't stream wirelessly, I'd be disappointed. If folks told me the solution was to not stream wirelessly, I'd find that less than helpful. If I felt like it came from an intolerance to hearing anything even remotely critical of the manufacturer, I'd be irritated. Wireless streamers should stream wirelessly. If a SBT can do it, a $5,995 Naim NAC N-272 should be able to do it.

Ignore the SBT ... thats a device which uses completely different (non-standard) protocols.  And google and you will find that wireless to that is less than perfect too.

Naim don't actually sell it as a "wireless" streamer (look at the web page - there is zero mention of wireless that I could find).  Wireless is there as a convenience feature and is recommended only for <16/48 rate files and internet radio, etc.  Wireless is also very dependent on the environment - other devices on the network, other networks in the area, etc.

No wireless streamer is perfect ... Squeezebox Touch had their troubles.  I actually had LESS trouble with my UnitiQute on WiFi than I did when I used a Marantz M-CR510 or a Squeezebox Duet on wireless.  What does that tell you?  Nothing except that wireless is less than perfect for audio and that over time (none of those devices were used side by side) wireless conditions change in a house and as I replaced routers and WAPs things improved and some things degraded.

Eloise posted:

No wireless streamer is perfect ... 

You mean to say that no wireless streamer that you have tried is perfect. My Raspberry Pi has been streaming all week between Redbook and 24/192 from Roon to Airplay and back again without a single dropout or a single reboot. Not bad for $35. All the credit to the open source community, Dan Askme at DietPi in particular. 

I'm just saying, 30 minutes and perfect wireless streaming. What's not to like? Plus Roon. Plus Airplay. Plus never again wondering when Naim is going to update the app. You can still do Naim DACs, amplifiers, and so on!

This is actually not a slight on Naim. It's unreasonable to expect a small company with many competing demands on their time to figure out network protocols and streaming as well as or as fast as the vast open-source community. There's no magic in transferring data, better to use what others have developed than to come up with your own home-grown proprietary solution. But that's a personal decision.

Seriously though, if you've never experienced reliable high resolution wireless streaming, try the $35 open-source solution. I'm here to help if you get stuck.

Best wishes.

---Pedro

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

PoE is the way where you can to go to cut down clutter,mains wiring and the number of small SMPS you have 

 

As well as less clutter, and fewer SMPS, a POE switch connected to a UPS can keep your wireless access points, phones and cameras running if there is a power cut. Assuming the router is also connected to a UPS, the internet connection will also function.

perizoqui posted:
Eloise posted:

No wireless streamer is perfect ... 

You mean to say that no wireless streamer that you have tried is perfect. My Raspberry Pi has been streaming all week between Redbook and 24/192 from Roon to Airplay and back again without a single dropout or a single reboot. Not bad for $35. All the credit to the open source community, Dan Askme at DietPi in particular. 

I'm just saying, 30 minutes and perfect wireless streaming. What's not to like? Plus Roon. Plus Airplay. Plus never again wondering when Naim is going to update the app. You can still do Naim DACs, amplifiers, and so on!

This is actually not a slight on Naim. It's unreasonable to expect a small company with many competing demands on their time to figure out network protocols and streaming as well as or as fast as the vast open-source community. There's no magic in transferring data, better to use what others have developed than to come up with your own home-grown proprietary solution. But that's a personal decision.

Seriously though, if you've never experienced reliable high resolution wireless streaming, try the $35 open-source solution. I'm here to help if you get stuck.

Best wishes.

---Pedro

This is neither for nor against your suggestion, but an observation on wireless streaming: you could take precisely the same setup as you have, and transport it to somewhere else where the wifi signal is compromised by other factors external to the units that are communicating, and it could be that then it would not work perfectly. That is the problem with wireless, that is avoided by wired networks (of course with the different potential issues they can have)

Innocent Bystander posted:

This is neither for nor against your suggestion, but an observation on wireless streaming: you could take precisely the same setup as you have, and transport it to somewhere else where the wifi signal is compromised by other factors external to the units that are communicating, and it could be that then it would not work perfectly. That is the problem with wireless, that is avoided by wired networks (of course with the different potential issues they can have)

Certainly, it's possible to break any wireless solution. Tethered will always be more robust. But some wireless devices have better designs than others. Better antennas, communication protocols, implementations, etc... Some are pretty darned robust. Especially this day and age for something really low bandwidth (like high-res audio). If the OP wants wireless, I recommend a wireless solution.

perizoqui posted:
Eloise posted:

No wireless streamer is perfect ... 

You mean to say that no wireless streamer that you have tried is perfect. My Raspberry Pi has been streaming all week between Redbook and 24/192 from Roon to Airplay and back again without a single dropout or a single reboot. Not bad for $35. All the credit to the open source community, Dan Askme at DietPi in particular. 

I'm just saying, 30 minutes and perfect wireless streaming. What's not to like? Plus Roon. Plus Airplay. Plus never again wondering when Naim is going to update the app. You can still do Naim DACs, amplifiers, and so on!

This is actually not a slight on Naim. It's unreasonable to expect a small company with many competing demands on their time to figure out network protocols and streaming as well as or as fast as the vast open-source community. There's no magic in transferring data, better to use what others have developed than to come up with your own home-grown proprietary solution. But that's a personal decision.

Seriously though, if you've never experienced reliable high resolution wireless streaming, try the $35 open-source solution. I'm here to help if you get stuck.

Best wishes.

---Pedro

I agree with everything you've said so far. Unfortunately some people prefer to spend large amounts of money on products that don't deliver while others try to defend them no matter what. Call it lack of objectivity, denial, fanboyism, whatever... I prefer to keep an open mind.

I'm in the process of selling my Naim gear. One reason is that on the same home network Sonos is 100% reliable for streaming wirelessly from the NAS and 99% reliable for Radio. Naim is closer to 95% for both over ethernet, its not good enough. 

I'm convinced that the Naim app is the main problem, I'm also convinced that the Sonos mesh network contributes to reliability. If I wasn't able to make the comparison I might be happier with Naim's excuses and the idea that it my and my ISP's responsibility to fix it. As is is I know that it doesn't have to be difficult so long as you invest in software development. 

I'll probably come back but i'll take a lot of convincing before I let Naim provide a streaming source

 

JulianL posted:

I'm in the process of selling my Naim gear. One reason is that on the same home network Sonos is 100% reliable for streaming wirelessly from the NAS and 99% reliable for Radio. Naim is closer to 95% for both over ethernet, its not good enough. 

I'm convinced that the Naim app is the main problem, I'm also convinced that the Sonos mesh network contributes to reliability. If I wasn't able to make the comparison I might be happier with Naim's excuses and the idea that it my and my ISP's responsibility to fix it. As is is I know that it doesn't have to be difficult so long as you invest in software development. 

I'll probably come back but i'll take a lot of convincing before I let Naim provide a streaming source

 

Don't sell your Naim gear! Keep it, add a $35 Raspberry Pi, and get the best of all worlds!! Last I checked Sonos couldn't do high res (better than CD) playback, nor serve as a Roon endpoint. And it's 10x the price of a Raspberry. Just sayin...

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a.diabelli
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