I hope its worth it?

Happy Listener posted:

If you search the Forum, there are some words (from either Darke Bear or TonyM - IIRC) to the effect that using the chips upside down is best...although I'm not sure on what type of floor surfaces, and this could be for speakers?

Interesting.....maybe it’s as you say floor surface dependant??

https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...build-the-naim-fraim

FYI, above is the link to the Fraim building guidance under the FAQ tab, should you not have come across this/wondered where it had been placed of late. I suspect between you & FinkFan you have all the bases covered - no pun intended.

One tip from me (obvious as it may be) is to layer the kit on the shelves and cable-up as you go (all mains off). I don't use the sticky-backed plastic retaining rings on the shelves (just don't like them) and this avoids, as far as possible, having to reach/overly-bend behind a tall-ish Fraim stack and hearing ball bearings bouncing across the floor if e.g. one of the burndies resists engagement. 

I've not tried the chips inverted as I've not got a solid floor and don't want material impressions being left in my wood flooring.

Happy Listener, thanks for the advice, all construction tips appreciated.

I have a carpeted floor, concrete underneath, so not initially thinking about using chips, but if it makes a difference may well just experiment .... just mean spending another £120 or so...

wenger2015 posted:

I have a carpeted floor, concrete underneath, so not initially thinking about using chips, but if it makes a difference may well just experiment .... just mean spending another £120 or so...

Surely after all the cash you’ve spent, your dealer could lend you a set! Remember that if you use them on carpet, they will have the opposite effect to what was intended, as they will leave a round mark on the carpet which may not disappear if you move the rack. 

Yes I would not use them on carpet. I did this and found that that rack (not fraim) was effectively “floating” on top of the carpet and susceptible to movement. Much better to have the spikes locate on the wood floor under your underlay to give it a firm and reliable platform. Plus, as others have said, the chips ruin the carpet by creating inch wide round indentations when the rack is re-located and these may never recover.

Regards

David

The Naim Fraim stacks are an excellent investment in your system IMO. The system will sound more detailed, have better timing and darker backgrounds with better bass definition with the Fraim is my experience.

Chips for hard surfaces improve the Fraim, but definitely do not use them on carpets and anything that can introduce a resonance - I found they sounded awful on carpets and it is better to have the spikes into the carpet onto the floor. In the end I removed the carpets around my HiFi Fraim and speakers so I could place onto a solid surface and it is much better.

Try first with just the spikes if the carpet has to be there and you should already get such a lift in performance from the Fraim that you will have time to later consider any other options.

DB.

I really wouldn’t bother about chips, given that you have a concrete floor. Just make little slits in the carpet so that the spikes get a good contact with the floor. You will get such a big uplift in performance over the current rack that you will be delighted, I’m sure. 

Hi DB,

thanks for your comments, the improvements you describe are exactly what I am hoping for.

It was mentioned earlier in the thread about using chips under the spikes, I did think maybe ok on hard floors only? 

My Son in law, Finkfan has recently spoken to Alester from Quadresphire with reference to his own new rack and organised a demo of a set of his newly designed floor protectors, a combination of chips and rubber by the sound of it. 

So that’s another option, but possibly not necessary in my case. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

I really wouldn’t bother about chips, given that you have a concrete floor. Just make little slits in the carpet so that the spikes get a good contact with the floor. You will get such a big uplift in performance over the current rack that you will be delighted, I’m sure. 

Yes, this is what I was originally thinking before the naim chips were mentioned, they make perfect sense if placed on a wooden floor but somewhat unnecessary on carpet.

Another vote for ‘no chips’. My Fraim spikes made their own way through the carpet. Slits are permanent. 

Feeling brave? Remove shoes and stand on the first base level to encourage the spikes through the carpet. It also has the advantage of getting it stable and level from the off. The weight of the kit will then maintain the necessary penetration.

I always say that Fraim ‘presents’ the music as opposed to ‘projecting’ it. You should hear improved detail, layering and spatial resolution in a delightfully unforced manner.

Fraim will certainly wring the best possible performance from all Naim kit. The price is outrageous and silly and cannot logically be justified. But ...... it works - like nothing else. A little madness is good for the soul.

Good luck.

John.

 

Finkfan posted:

Yeah I’m looking forward to finding out what they do in my situation Wenger. With or without the QX7s my newly acquired SVT racks will be an improvement over the current IKEA sideboard I’m sure 

I’m sure like me you will be hoping for a real boost in performance, I was very tempted to go for Quadresphire myself.

Hopefully we will both be delighted.

Going back to John’s point, I’d suggest, as I did above, making tiny slits with the point of a Stanley knife, once you are happy with the position. Not only do you get a good purchase on the floor, it actually damages the carpet a lot less than shoving the spikes through. If you move the rack later, a quick rub on the carpet restores the pile. The slits are under 1cm long. It’s a really good idea, especially if you have the thick felt underlay. 

Another tip is to take the Fraim apart and rebuild it after three or four months. The metal compresses the veneer and everything gets looks. Do it again after another six months or so, then it’s just a matter of checking once a year. This doesn’t happen with SVT of course...

Once you have the Fraim position on the Carpet you want that allows all cables to dress correctly off the floor, then remove it and (horror) get a drill-bit and make a small hole (while nobody is looking) through the carpet to clear the spikes onto the solid floor. Carefully position and level the base and build the Fraim stacks and it will work great and not show the hole.

Fraim seems to increase in price above inflation every year, so get it early is good to enjoy early too and save overall. I used to have five fraim stacks and when I got my 'vertical form' Pre that did not need a fraim I sold that fraim for half the current price at that time - with inflation it is what I originally paid for it!

I now regret disposing of it, as I have a use for it now - but four Fraim stacks I have at present really just fit in the room where I can house the HiFi.

Just posting the above to give perspective and make you feel less insane and actually rather sensible!

DB.

Thanks DB and HH for the tips.

Fortunately my dealer is a good friend so I have been able to take advantage of ‘ mates rates’ but even with a healthy discount it’s a very considerable outlay.

Ps  DB, I do appreciate being referred to as ‘Sensible’. After much deliberation I came to the conclusion the purchase was a good investment long term.... so the reassurance is appreciated 

wenger2015 posted:
Finkfan posted:

Haha. It’s wood and metal, it’ll be fine! If you like we could try it with a grandchild first?? 

Will bring spirit level too of course. 

Small grandchild possibly not heavy enough??? My mother in law possibly to heavy????

 

Try it please and post a photo as evidence. She would not notice given the assumption that she does not read this forum.

 

On topic: a vote for fraim chips on a wooden floor. My Ovators where only happy after the chips where there.

My experience was that the improvement on the LP12, which is on a seperate wall mount, was subtle. It already sounded great anyhow.

For me, the revelation came with moving the CDX2/XPSDR to Fraim. Whereas before it could sound a little edgy and, dare I say it, fatiguing with certain discs, the problem pretty much disappeared with Fraim. It just became more natural and easy to listen to. 

Well worth the expense in my case.

jonnaim posted:

I purchased second hand Fraim base and four levels for £1000, at that price  I could not resist, did it make a difference to the sound no not really but the equipment looks good on it and cable management is easier.

 

 

Hi jonnaim, your experience does seem to be in the minority. Did you buy the full fraim or was it the fraim lite?

AlanJ posted:

My experience was that the improvement on the LP12, which is on a seperate wall mount, was subtle. It already sounded great anyhow.

For me, the revelation came with moving the CDX2/XPSDR to Fraim. Whereas before it could sound a little edgy and, dare I say it, fatiguing with certain discs, the problem pretty much disappeared with Fraim. It just became more natural and easy to listen to. 

Well worth the expense in my case.

Hi Alanj,  pleased to hear you have had a positive experience.

 

wenger2015 posted:

I would assume the benefits of a full fraim are enhanced even more if you can seperate the Brains and Brawn on two stacks?

That would seem to be the prevailing wisdom, though space constraints mean its not an option for me.

My order, on the Fraim, from top down, is as follows

CDX2

282

Radikal

Supercap DR

XPS DR

250DR

some may argue thats not optimal but it sounds fine to me.

 

 

 

AlanJ posted:
wenger2015 posted:

I would assume the benefits of a full fraim are enhanced even more if you can seperate the Brains and Brawn on two stacks?

That would seem to be the prevailing wisdom, though space constraints mean its not an option for me.

My order, on the Fraim, from top down, is as follows

CDX2

282

Radikal

Supercap DR

XPS DR

250DR

some may argue thats not optimal but it sounds fine to me.

 

 

 

That seems  like the ideal order to me, the prove is in how it sounds, and you’ve answered that.

jonnaim posted:

I purchased full Fraim, if the price is a bargain buy but I would never pay full price for it, second hand is fine.

 

If you can buy Pre-loved and save some hard earned cash then that’s great, it’s what I would describe as a win win situation.

Re dents in carpet, nothing to do with effect on sound, there’s a neat repick with hot water that Imwas surprised to find is very effective.

As for spikes and carpet, if you have wooden surface below that you don’t want to damage, and bearing in mind that indented spike shoes can be impossible to locate accurately under the carpet, I have found 2p pieces to be very effective, accurate central lacating of spikes not being essential. Of course, if you have any, pre-decimalisation pennies are even bigger...

 

jonnaim posted:

I purchased second hand Fraim base and four levels for £1000, at that price I could not resist, did it make a difference to the sound no not really but the equipment looks good on it and cable management is easier.

 

 

This is about what I have paid for a new base and 4 used levels(dealer demo),and I found the same result,sound wise.My guess is that it depends on how good your previous rack was,as to the level of improvement you actually hear.It is easy to just look at the shiny new stack,and convince yourself that it sounds better,when you probably could not tell the difference in a blind test.YMMV.

No quarter posted:
jonnaim posted:

I purchased second hand Fraim base and four levels for £1000, at that price I could not resist, did it make a difference to the sound no not really but the equipment looks good on it and cable management is easier.

 

 

This is about what I have paid for a new base and 4 used levels(dealer demo),and I found the same result,sound wise.My guess is that it depends on how good your previous rack was,as to the level of improvement you actually hear.It is easy to just look at the shiny new stack,and convince yourself that it sounds better,when you probably could not tell the difference in a blind test.YMMV.

 ‘depends on how good previous rack was’ is not an absolute. It depends on how much sonic energy needs to be isolated from the boxes as well. So this depends on your room, position of racks, speakers etc.

Those deals look good. Enjoy.

Phil

Innocent Bystander posted:

As for spikes and carpet, if you have wooden surface below that you don’t want to damage, and bearing in mind that indented spike shoes can be impossible to locate accurately under the carpet, I have found 2p pieces to be very effective, accurate central lacating of spikes not being essential. Of course, if you have any, pre-decimalisation pennies are even bigger...

 

Surely for a system of Naim's calibre they should be half-crowns  

MDS posted:
Innocent Bystander posted:

As for spikes and carpet, if you have wooden surface below that you don’t want to damage, and bearing in mind that indented spike shoes can be impossible to locate accurately under the carpet, I have found 2p pieces to be very effective, accurate central lacating of spikes not being essential. Of course, if you have any, pre-decimalisation pennies are even bigger...

 

Surely for a system of Naim's calibre they should be half-crowns  

My grandson has a bag of gold coins, possibly chocolate underneath but maybe worth a try....I will start negotiations with him...

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