Inerconnect

Just ordered a Tellurium Q Black USB Type A to Type B Cable for the MM/USB Regen connection - first upgrade for a few years since joining in with streaming (apart from getting a Tacima mains conditioner which definitely improved the SQ).

I've been so happy with the system that I have boxed up my cds2/xps ready for sale/part x. I will post a comment if the SQ is significantly altered by the new cable.

Meanwhile a couple of points on which I would welcome advice:

1)    I use TP link powerline adapters - any comments?

2)    Any regen users thoughts on the regen-DAC connection [I use a Hugo]...it's male USBA-male microB...there don't seem to be any hifi options out there

3)    I notice that there is a lot of support for the use of switches on the forum...what is the benefit and could I usefully integrate a switch if using a powerline connected to my router (BTHub 6).

3)    I would like to attach a NAS to my router for storing/accessing cd rips...what are the best options.

 

Cheers

 

Original Post

Powerline adapters are awful - get rid. Wired Ethernet is better both for reliability and for not putting crap onto the mains. 

Have used a Regen in the past - It's very good and a step up on the MM USB output (and relatively insensitive to the USB cable connected to it). The biggest gain for me was moving away from a well optimised MM to a Melco as a USB source. I'd recommend trying one out as you can free yourself of the Regen etc. 

Thank James - I would dearly love to have a direct ethernet wire connection to the MM and am considering getting an electrician to quote for a dedicated mains spur which could also provide a route for an ethernet cable. The powerline is a compromise which I would like to overcome without damaging the fabric of the house too much.

The Melco may be a tad expensive and I'm not sure if it allows for Tidal which I currently very much enjoy together with the rips I have put on the MM. 

wow....100m

I will go back to wifi with the Qb....my MM is too far from the router at present but I am looking at reconfiguring things to facilitate wifi or even ethernet connection to it...

I've seen Simon's  advice about ripping software - I've got EAC but may buy dbpoweramp...is there a recommended scheme for organising the ripped files on a NAS

 

thank you for the replies

Docv posted:

:

1)    I use TP link powerline adapters - any comments?

2)    Any regen users thoughts on the regen-DAC connection [I use a Hugo]...it's male USBA-male microB...there don't seem to be any hifi options out there

3)    I notice that there is a lot of support for the use of switches on the forum...what is the benefit and could I usefully integrate a switch if using a powerline connected to my router (BTHub 6).

3)    I would like to attach a NAS to my router for storing/accessing cd rips...what are the best options.

 

 

1): A Bad Thing - possibly for streaming music files across, definitely for polltion of mains that could affect you, and your neighbours

2): i) they are USB and ii) their whole point is hifi. Not sure what else would be desired.

3): Switches are normal ethernet network components, nothing specifically to do with this forum. What some poeple get excited about is different switches over others, and their power supplies, and ethernet cables - but even the most basic network components are likely to be better than using Powerline, while many people are far from convinced that most network tweaks are any more than that.

However, you already have Mini/Audirvana giving you a combined store/renderer, I presume the network connection just for internet access? If so, I wouldn’t fret too much - after all, younalready have the best source right there. But for best sound quality I am not sure if USB regenon its own gives sufficient RF blocking from the MM. From what I read when I set up mine into Hugo more was needed, and certainly the Gustard U12 I used did a very good job, while some other people using just USB regen spent efforts trying to find improvements.

Thanks for the fun and advice...I wish there were a few Naimsters living round here as you could all come in for beers and music and the occasional A-B-A comparisons. My kit delivers a lot...the 52/250 heart is sweet....great the way it has coped with digital ...the hugo is also a smart brightly lit astounder...I have to thank DayJay for recommending the various components that have taken me down-stream. 

Expecting the TQ tomorrow...

IB - there is a jitterbug in the MM [in fact there's two!!! one is just plugged in doing nothing...or something].

The network delivers Tidal. My MM doesn't seem to appear for use by any other devices eg the Qb in the kitchen or my PC...that's why I'm thinking of plugging in a NAS to the router and bunkering down for hours of ripping

You can install a UPnP player on the MM, then other devices should be able to,play it. When I first had my MM I used Serviio (free) to serve to ND5XS, and that worked a treat. The latest version of Audirvana actually incorporates a UPnP server - obviously that is omitting the renderer that is Audirvana’s strong point, but if younhave tha version you may not need anything else. (I have stayed with v2.6, having seen no incentive to ‘upgrade’ to v3)

I also have a NAS, which is my primary backup device, for music and other things.

I use TP.link powerlne adaptors with no negative affects at all to the sound quality unless you use the av1200 or above. The regular av500 or 600 are fine. The av1200 uses different tech and my phono stage picked it up.all good with the rest. I would however not place any of them near the audio equipment. Mine are at the other end of the room then into switch with a 5m cable. If done a full comparison of this setup and get no additional noise when I unplugged them all and ran an even longer cable across room into the hall and where my router sits in a cupboard. 

Simon, powerline adapters by design make your mains noisy with radio frequency voltages ... Naim and many other high resolving audio components, radio equipment etc don’t function optimally with this relatively high level of electrical noise present.. hence why generally they are not recommended.

from a network perspective powerline adapters are not Ethernet and can’t operate in a true low latency duplex sense, and if a Naim streamer sees duplex Ethernet it  is expecting exactly this.. effectively however powerline adapters look a bit like Wifi from a network dynamic perspective (and both operate by radio frequencies), but your streamer can’t see that instead it sees it mistakenly as Ethernet. The streamers optimise their functionality for best performance internally depending on whether the access is Ethernet or Wifi. The same optimisation  issue would occur if a wireless Adhoc bridge was used between two Ethernet segments connecting streamer and media server.

if you have trouble with wired Ethernet logistics to your streamer you will, I suspect, be better off overall with a proper commercial grade overlapping (multiple overlapping APs acting as a single ESSID) Wifi infrastructure from the likes of Ubiquiti and others, rather than use a consumer home ‘network’ kludge such as  powerline adapters

 

Well it makes no difference at all in my system . With or without them my system sounds the same as WiFi and usb and sounds great and the same as when a direct connection was made to my router. Maybe in some homes it does affect it but from my experience it does not effect it. And I have also unplugged them all and compared. 

Simonpeterarnold,.....If you have something wrong in your system-installation,it is harder to hear any difference.The more you have give attention to system-installation,....the more you hear differences between A and B 😉.

Maybe it can depend on that,if you don't hear any differences....everything matters.

/Peder 😃 

SimonPeterArnold posted:

Well it makes no difference at all in my system . With or without them my system sounds the same as WiFi and usb and sounds great and the same as when a direct connection was made to my router. Maybe in some homes it does affect it but from my experience it does not effect it. And I have also unplugged them all and compared. 

You may have described your system somewhere, but it is better to put it in your profile as well to save us time. Many on this forum will look at a profile to assess how to respond to posts.

So just because it make no difference using EoP to your system does not make what you say a universal fact. S-in-S gives an excellent post above, which he has probably given to others in the past.

Phil

Where did I say it was a universal fact. I said in my system giving anedoctal evidence in contrast to the fact you all universally think it does effect sq. You argument  works both ways. I have not said it does not produce RF and in my first post made it clear I did have issues with av1200, but none with av500 and 600. 

Not sure what my setup has to do with anything and I won't be putting it in my signature . But if you must know.

Data cupboard 

Qnap ts-453pro for all my media video and audio

Custom i3 pc for Roon core

1x virgin superhub 3 in modem mode

Netgear r8000 router with Triband WiFi

1x TP Link Av600

Lounge 

1 x TP link av600 pla

1 x Cisco SG 110D switch

1 x 6m cat5e to Naim Uniti Atom

Naim Uniti Atom

Arcam avr360 pre amp out to Uniti Atom QED performance interconnect

Arcam Alpha 7 cd player QED performance spdif coax interconnect to Atom

Clearaudio Concept MC

Clearaudio Nano V2 phono stage QED performance interconnect to Atom

Qacoustics 2050i , 2020, 2000c, 2070 cant remember what my speaker cable is. But to the main speakers it is insulated solid core.

TV plus other video related gear.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Peder posted:

Simonpeterarnold,.....If you have something wrong in your system-installation,it is harder to hear any difference.The more you have give attention to system-installation,....the more you hear differences between A and B 😉.

Maybe it can depend on that,if you don't hear any differences....everything matters.

/Peder 😃 

The more  high quality wine I drink makes it sound even better to than cheap plonk. As i said with with or without them installed made no difference. Sorry you can't accept it but others in this world also experience this phenomena maybe we are all delusional maybe not. All I know is it works for me and if it upsets naimites audio sensibilities then not my problem. I only offered my opinion on the op with my experience, but like so many threads on this forum you go against what people seem gospel you get shot for being a heretic. I think I'll just get back to listening and enjoying my system without worrying about whether the darklord RF is ruining my experience  or not and stop reading and posting on this forum I think I'll be a happier person.

Simonpeterarnold,.....Oooops,what an reaction when I try to give you some advice,but no problem 😉🙂.

My wisdom-word is "Be Openminded" and "Attention To Detail", I,m 60 years old and have liked musik and hifi all of my live.From Sweden,and wellknown here in the group of "Hifi-freaks" 😉😎. Sorry if I offended you in some way.

Here in Sweden people often call me, and ask if I can help them with there system-installation .....we are a little group around Sweden, who try to help with this if we have time over. Of course we do this for free.

As you know Naim/Linn=flat-earth, so we use the method Tune-Dem, and are extremely in Attention To Detail. If you do things right in a system-setup you can ALWAYS hear difference between A-B.

That was because of that background I give the advice to you. If you will take the advice is up to you. It is a little hard to explane in english,hope you can understand.

We also have a forum for this here in Sweden,we stand there with our real names....no (nick-name)......because of that we hold this forum on a secret place to protect ourself.

Just an little explanation......

Kind regards,Peder 🙂 

 

 

Dear responders to my questions, may I give you the following updates:

1) the TQ interconnect was initially a bit/a lot disastrous because (apart from the first hour or two) it sounded awful - muddled, veiled, incohesive, drab). I decided to attempt a "full-on" 100 hour  burn in. After 24 hours the position was generally unchanged and I was considering sending it back. I got rid of the jitterbug - irrelevant: I put it back in. I was incredulous and considered going back to the original default plasticky wire thing which had served me well for a couple of years. Whilst deliberating and having a cup of tea, I noticed that the sound had changed...mmmm... My toes started to tap; I noticed that there was  now lovely detail and emotion in the music which at the time included Gram Parsons' brilliant rendition of Love Hurts with Emmylou Harris... There were teardrops forming in my eyes... Fortunately no one was around. Maddeningly, within an hour or 2, the SQ had deteriorated although not as bad as back to the original situation. And this is how it went on with the SQ seemingly oscillating around a quite beautiful sweet spot... As the hours rolled on, the amplitude of oscillation (hopefully this is  making sense) diminished and the sound became much more consistently very good to brilliant. Today, I can announce that it is a complete success as there is now a compelling cohesion to the SQ which is a joy to listen to and I am doing little else but skipping from one album to another, much to the chagrin of my wife  who keeps reminding me that there are lots of jobs to be done around the house while I am hardly able to drag myself away from the listening spot and in danger of developing a DVT. I now really do believe in burn in. I can highly recommend TQ black. 

2)   I really like the forum and it is fantastic to get the advice of fellow lovers of hi-fi, many of whom clearly  a huge  understanding of the technical side of electronics: thank you all very much. The discussion about the powerline connectors is fascinating. As a result of concerns raised here, I disconnected my Qb from the powerline (mine are all the TP Link AV2000 type) and connected by wifi...Although accepting that powerline must impact on the mains supply, the wifi connection sounded worse to me and I went back to powerline and was much happier. I could all be down to all sorts of things like confirmation bias etc but my main objective is to thoroughly enjoy listening to music at the best quality I can achieve. i will give wifi another try in due course. I still aim to try to persuade my wife that we need a dedicated spur and a direct wired ethernet connection to my MM (how I dream of that ): however, it would require quite a lot of drilling and probably re-plastering and my next upgrade may have to be a diamond ring for the current Mrs V to pave the way for further hifi bliss. So, I do hope that this strand of the discussion has not caused any upset.   

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