ND5 SX stop playing

I have had an ongoing issue with an ND5 SX that stops playing intermittently. It is on version 4.4 firmware on a wired home network. When playing albums on a loop, FLAC or DSD, it will intermittently stop playing, go back to "initializing input" and end up back and the screen where you select the UPnP source. This has been extremely frustrating as it is difficult to predict when this will happen, Sometimes it is during the first play of an album, and sometimes it will loop overnight with no problem whatsoever. I have sent it back for repair twice. The first time they said they could find no issue, and the second time, they replaced the streamer board.

This is the letter I sent along with the unit when I sent it back the 2nd time:

The ND5XS is hard wired on a managed HP gigabit switch. There are zero errors on the switch port it is connected to. When it stops playing, the Naim unit goes through an iinput nitialization cycle as when first powering on. Then it goes to the spot in the menu where you select the upnp server, remembering the last selection. I moved the Synology NAS running Minimserver to the same switch that the NAIM is on, with only those 2 devices on that switch, with the same result.

I used a USB stick to perform the same test, taking the network out of the equation. It did the same thing, only this time when it reinitialized, it went back to the USB input, again remembering the last selection. I have also used the remote only, the buttons on the player only, and the iPad app to control the unit. All with the same result.

Additionally I have tested with wall power and with the XP5XS power supply with the same results.

I think I have eliminated all environmental conditions in my home or on my network as possible causes of the issue.

If you have any questions, please call me before sending it back again.

It initially occurred less frequently since I received it back from the shop, but would still happenon occasion. Since then I have replaced my 3 HP switched with Cisco 2960s, replaced all the patch cables, tried a different server, Serviio, on my Synology NAS, all with no improvement.

This week it has gotten worse, where it will fail much more frequently. I was at my wits end and started looking at other hardware options to replace the ND5. I contacted my dealer to see what they would recommend and started discussing the possibility of trading for an Aurender. I told him I had 2 things to try yet before I completely gave up on the Naim, one was a music server on a completely different device, and the other was a Wi-Fi connection instead of wired. Last night I tried a PC based server using both JRiver and Minimserver, taking the NAS out of the equation. After about 2 hours in and midway through the third pass through the album it failed again on JRiver, and nearly an identical result with the PC based Minimserver. I was just about to try the WiFi connection, when I searched this forum and came across this posting. I don't know how I had missed it earlier, but now it is closed so I could not post to it, but it describes my exact issue. I also have an Amazon Echo and Dot on the same network.

https://forums.naimaudio.com/topic/nds-stops-playing

DUSTYSOX posted this on Page 3:

Hi all,

Just to update....drum roll......!

Phil kindly sent me a Beta version firmware to try which I was able to install on my NDS.  Tried playing some music, all worked and then powered the Amazon Echo Dot's.......guess what...music continued to play...brilliant stuff....!!

I'm not sure, how etc but this firmware has certainly cured my problem. I'm sure if you are experiencing the same problem and contacted Naim that you could also try this firmware (Windows Only, Mac version not available, yet).

Well done to all @ Naim. We are in great company here forum friends with Naim. They do get a rough ride sometimes and it's important to give them the good news and to say thank you as they most certainly deserve it, we are really lucky with the level/standard/service that we all get from them.

I did clear this with Phil, and asked if I could post this as anyone else experiencing the same problem as me will be able to see that there is light at the end of the tunnel.

 

What I would like to know, is it possible for me to get the beta firmware that fixed his very, very similar issue?

Thanks,

Paul

 

 

 

Original Post
juanito posted:

Any idea when this beta firmware will be cleared for final release?

As I said in a previous post, the latest beta we have now does not specify anything to do with Echo & Dot.   I suspect the Echo/Dot fix is scheduled for the next beta (any day now).  If its successful I expect it will go on general release pretty quick because of new platform & multiroom. 

Whatever fixes are in the latest beta appear to have resolved a nagging issue that has been ongoing for over a year. If there are additional fixes in the next beta, all the better. Hopefully there is an official release soon and there won't be the more than 2 year lag between releases going forward.

Hi All
This has been an interesting developement on the 'intermittant stopping' issue. I too have similar problems to you all, lasting over the last 18 months or so (maybe longer). My dealer seemed perplexed so i did not return the ND5 to NAIM, but instead followed a previous thread that to all accounts blamed the Home Network Structure has the likely fault.
Adhering to Forum advice I have Changed the router/switch twice (now business standard mananged switching), replaced all cables (shortest route) with CAT 6 and even changed Synology NAS to upgraded item. Synology customer support have been very patient & responsive (unlike NAIM i might add). The NAS works seemlessly and i think the 'Red Herrings' of Amazon Alexa, etc are a side track. Still no improvement.
Trying different media server software also has not helped, resulting in my suspecting the NAIM to be at fault.

I had unfortunately convinced myself that since this has been an active topic for so long it couldn't be the manufacturer??????

Has anyone any idea if the 'beta' firmware is likely to appear in the near future (or at all)?

It has been a very frustrating and aggravating period, which has left me unable to recommend or follow my anticipated NAIM upgrade plan.

Tollski posted:

Has anyone any idea if the 'beta' firmware is likely to appear in the near future (or at all)?

There has been no change in the information or release of new firmware since my last post on this thread 7/12/17.   Its still expected in the near future.   As for it working with Amazon Echo, there is no info on that.     

I'm using the beta firmware on my ND5 XS - although it is difficult to tell, I would say that there has been an improvement over the last public release.

Tidal still stops intermittently, though less than before. This happens more often when connected by WiFi than when (for testing purposes) connected by ethernet cable.

My connection has been upgraded to fibre to the home in the interim, so this could also have contributed to the improvement - at the last test, the average speed was 12mb/s download 1mb/s upload with 125ms latency.

Just to be clear Juanito,  the latest beta firmware was released in July-17,  I don't  believe using firmware revisions as a benchmark is of much use.  Tidal drop-outs is a common problem & it's most likely a multiple cause.

As for fibre to your home & 12Mb/s download,  are you really sure about those numbers???    My service is fibre to the local cabinet & thats 250m distance over copper/alloy wire to my home.  I get 75Mb/s download & 10ms latency.  

Prior to installing the beta firmware, I was using the last public release, which must be about two years old now.

I just re-tested the broadband and got 13mb/s download and 860kb/s upload with 140ms latency using speedof.me - note that the broadband is nominally either 16 or 32mb/s download (it is not very clear which) and 1mb/s upload.

I had a chat with the technicians installing the fibre in the apartment block where I live - the fibre comes directly into the Telco's router and from there via about 25m of ethernet cable into my apartment.

Since the Telco only allows 5 simultaneous IP addresses, I am obliged to daisy chain my own router, a Cisco RV130, but the results are pretty much the same when connected directly to the Telco's router

juanito posted:

Prior to installing the beta firmware, I was using the last public release, which must be about two years old now.

I just re-tested the broadband and got 13mb/s download and 860kb/s upload with 140ms latency using speedof.me - note that the broadband is nominally either 16 or 32mb/s download (it is not very clear which) and 1mb/s upload.

I had a chat with the technicians installing the fibre in the apartment block where I live - the fibre comes directly into the Telco's router and from there via about 25m of ethernet cable into my apartment.

Since the Telco only allows 5 simultaneous IP addresses, I am obliged to daisy chain my own router, a Cisco RV130, but the results are pretty much the same when connected directly to the Telco's router

I'd hardly call that "broadband" but I guess it's all relative.  My modest service (albeit here in the States) with fibre is 80 m  both up and down.

There obviously is more to keeping the Naim player happy than broadband speed.  Other devices (Amazon dot, etc.) can interfere.  For those with such issues, a good approach is to strip down the home network and have nothing on it other than the router and the naim devices and server.  To start, use the switch built into the router.  If that works, add back in your own switch.  If that works, start to add in other devices one at a time to see if you can find an offending device

I do remember the earlier discussion about the Amazon devices interfering with Naim streaming and Phil supplying someone with a beta that sorted that out. It would be surprising if that isn't included in the forthcoming streamer beta, although as Mike says, no-one is talking about that now in the beta team.

Also given the number of voice control devices around now, and the very low incidence of comments about problems with them on the Naim forum, I wonder whether Amazon have a firmware upgrade that fixes the issue at their end?

best

David

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