NDS Stops playing

Hi all,

Before I send my NDS to Naim i wanted to "pick" your fine brains!

My NDS recently "acquired" a wee problem in that it stops playing from Asset Vers 5. I have a Mac Mini with an external hard drive connected to it. In the last 4/5 days the NDS stops playing the music. 

I still have my old Logitech Transporter which uses Logitech Media server which doesn't seem to suffer the same problem i.e. connecting the external hard drive on the Mac Mini and playing music.

I have rebooted (i'll whisper this bit...!) BT Hub 5 router. This didn't solve it. I then carried out a full factory reset of the router, this did not solve it. I swapped ethernet cables..this did not solve it. What is strange is that switching NDS to radio station it does not suffer the same problem. So, with my detective hat on I can only conclude that either the Mac Mini and or Asset are my problem. I have uninstalled and reinstalled Asset and this has not effect. I ran a check on drives in Disk Utility last night which did  find some errors and corrected them. This has made the Mac Mini a bit more snappy! I am going to reload Miniserver to see what results that brings. 

When I open Naim app it does seem slow to find UPnP.

I have unplugged ethernet cable to NDS and now running NDS in wireless mode to rule out ethernet connection on NDS. 

Before you all shout get a Uniti Core, can any one suggest what i can do next? I'm running out of ideas.

 

 

Original Post

I think your investigative instincts are the same as mine. I would try and rule the Mac mini and Asset out first... so what I would try

1. have you a Nas with a media server you can try, just as a temp

2. Have you a standalone switch you can try between your NDS and media server?

when the audio stops, does the NDS when in buffer display mode show the buffer is empty?

S

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

I think your investigative instincts are the same as mine. I would try and rule the Mac mini and Asset out first... so what I would try

1. have you a Nas with a media server you can try, just as a temp

2. Have you a standalone switch you can try between your NDS and media server?

when the audio stops, does the NDS when in buffer display mode show the buffer is empty?

S

Hi Simon,

Thank you for coming back to me.

Wireless mode failed as well. Unfortunately I don't have a NAS. I do have a switch which I have now plugged into different socket. 

I can't think it's the NDS. Something must of changed re my network/Mac Mini and I'm at a loss to think what?

I might take a punt on a cheap QNAP and load Asset to see what results that brings although it seems quite drastic. If thats the case i might as well dem the UC.

What is a puzzler is that the Naim app/NDS are slow to detect Asset. I have enabled buffer and i will monitor buffer levels.

Any more thoughts?

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Dusty, glad the drum roll might be working 

Going forward you might want to think of a little NAS as you say.. it keeps things simpler and therefore more reliable in the long run.

Simon

Bless ya Simon. This forum is lucky to have such a  helpful chap on board! Can you recommend a NAS?

 

Dustysox posted:

Wireless mode failed as well. 

 

Not necessarily for the same reason?? Naim streamers don't fare well on WiFi in my experience.

When you do a restart, I find it's best to do your full network all at once. Turn off everything (not just audio gear) then start the router, followed by all other devices one at a time.

A separate NAS connected via a switch would be a good move in any case.

Dusty, you should find a 'little nas' (QNAP or Synology) perfectly suitable as a music server, and quite reliable.  A little story . . . when using uServe as my server, it liked to go offline every few weeks, and my wife really wondered how crazy I was to have spent so much on a 'fancy hi fi' to have music playback be so unreliable.  (I had other issues too, with a corrupted Airport Extreme / Time Capsule sabotaging playback too.)  I've been using a QNAP nas as my only music server for about a year now, and it's ALWAYS at the ready; the Naim App finds all my music instantly, and playback is consistent.  I seem to prefer Asset these days, which tips the scales to QNAP, but Asset, or Minimserver, on a nas, should do well for you.

Use a little Netgear switch between the nas and your home router, and plug everything into that switch. That's it!

Dozey posted:

Different issue - can be a problem with NDS because of latency issues. I use a chromecast audio into the NDS to reduce drop outs until there is a firmware update. 

There's nothing wrong with the NDS firmware; if you're having dropouts, it's 99% likely to be the network.  And I don't know what the other 1% might be.

Hi all,

Thank you for all your input. Even after all this time it really impresses me how wonderful and helpful folk are around these parts, restores my faith in humanity in a sometimes crazy world!!!

Update.

Last night I got "lost in music" with my trusty ol Logitech Transporter! She certainly punches above her weight as a source. Great little peice of equipment. Not once did she "stop the music " at least not until bed time!

I managed to get the NDS to "see" Logitech Media Server and play music from there....guess what...the music played for a while and then stopped. I can therefore only conclude that the NDS needs a visit to the Naim hospital!!!!  A real bummer at this time of year as nothing will now happen until the New Year. 

All is not lost as I will be able to use the Transporter as a source and I still have an old Primare CD player kicking around.

What has come come out of this experience is with all the money spent on source, pre amp and amp I am relying on a Mac Mini and an external hard drive for my music. Bonkers....or what. I had never even considered this as a problem before This needs reviewing. I suspect I will go down the Uniti Core route and investigate a Qnap Nas  as well. 

Its a Sunday morning and only one week until Christmas (blimey where has the year gone!!!!!) and I'm lining myself up for a music day minus NDS!!!! 

Cue the music Dusty and get learning about Unti Cores and NAS systems....all in a days work!!!!!

Dustysox posted:

Hi all,

Thank you for all your input. Even after all this time it really impresses me how wonderful and helpful folk are around these parts, restores my faith in humanity in a sometimes crazy world!!!

Update.

Last night I got "lost in music" with my trusty ol Logitech Transporter! She certainly punches above her weight as a source. Great little peice of equipment. Not once did she "stop the music " at least not until bed time!

I managed to get the NDS to "see" Logitech Media Server and play music from there....guess what...the music played for a while and then stopped. I can therefore only conclude that the NDS needs a visit to the Naim hospital!!!!  A real bummer at this time of year as nothing will now happen until the New Year. 

All is not lost as I will be able to use the Transporter as a source and I still have an old Primare CD player kicking around.

What has come come out of this experience is with all the money spent on source, pre amp and amp I am relying on a Mac Mini and an external hard drive for my music. Bonkers....or what. I had never even considered this as a problem before This needs reviewing. I suspect I will go down the Uniti Core route and investigate a Qnap Nas  as well. 

Its a Sunday morning and only one week until Christmas (blimey where has the year gone!!!!!) and I'm lining myself up for a music day minus NDS!!!! 

Cue the music Dusty and get learning about Unti Cores and NAS systems....all in a days work!!!!!

Sorry to hear especially as this period is very often a period in which everybody enjoys the system at it's fullest as we have time and the emotional state to enjoy. The last thing which might save you as you mentioned that internet radio plays, so perhaps Tidal is as well a way out......

Otherwise I just hope it get's fixed as soon as possible for you.

Dusty, how frustrating. I do think it's unlikely still it's the NDS, especially if internet radio works without issue, as underneath covers it and and UPnP are quite similar other than data rate, which are all relatively low. Can you borrow a unitiserve or something from a friendly local dealer... plug into your seperate switch... if you get interruption there then indeed the NDS to hospital must go.....

Rather like Bart, we use a Qnap nas (a 253A) connected to a switch, to which the Naim is also connected and it's been totally reliable, in fact much more do than the UnitiServe was, whichbwas prone to having a funny five minutes now and again, requiring rebooting. If you connect the nas and the Naim via a switch they are wholly independent of the network - you can turn off the router and the music will keep going happily. I don't know if you are connected like this - sorry if I missed it above - but if not this is the way to go. The Core is only a nas in a posh box with an added ripping facility and won't get inherently more reliable than a plain old nas. The Qnap runs Asset very well, which is easy to use, solid and reliable. If you go the nas route I'd try that, then you can add a Core later if you want.

I thought minimserver worked, presumably that stopped as well or have I missed a post?

does the same thing happen with Tidal? ( it may be worth taking a trial to see if Tidal has the issue -as the stream won't be coming from asset. )

If you know someone who can bring a windows laptop around and run asset on this and see if the issue is the mac?

SJB

Sloop John B posted:

I thought minimserver worked, presumably that stopped as well or have I missed a post?

does the same thing happen with Tidal? ( it may be worth taking a trial to see if Tidal has the issue -as the stream won't be coming from asset. )

If you know someone who can bring a windows laptop around and run asset on this and see if the issue is the mac?

SJB

Good point SJB, not sure I answered about Minimserver...now running with it at the mo....buffer shows full.....for now.

will report back.

sjbabbey posted:

Dusty,

Do you have any spare ethernet cables? If so, try swapping a new one in between the switch and the NDS just in case it's the cable playing up.

Good point, it's always possible that a damaged cable is the culprit. I keep a long one spare for checking this - you can buy basic Cat5e cables online for next to nothing. 

Sloop John B posted:

Did buffer underrun cause the dropout?

SJB

Hi SJB,

im not sure what this means? It does advise when cutting out Please wait initialising input on NDS screen then finds UPnP?

sjbabbey posted:

Dusty,

Do you have any spare ethernet cables? If so, try swapping a new one in between the switch and the NDS just in case it's the cable playing up.

 

 posted:
sjbabbey posted:

Dusty,

Do you have any spare ethernet cables? If so, try swapping a new one in between the switch and the NDS just in case it's the cable playing up.

Good point, it's always possible that a damaged cable is the culprit. I keep a long one spare for checking this - you can buy basic Cat5e cables online for next to nothing. 

I did try this without success. 

What is curious about this the Transporter looking at same Mac & external hard drive doesn't suffer the same fate.

any thoughts?

Im hoping with Qnap arriving tomorrow this will answer some questions and add to back up of my music at best.

Dustysox posted:
Adam Zielinski posted:

I'm convinced it 's the network and UPnP configuration rather than NDS itself.

Hi Adam,

Can you elaborate? What would you advise?

Just a short re-cap of a typical streaming network set up. Please forgive if I'm stating the obvious, but in this case I feel it's good to lay out some basics, so that we can work from a 'known state of affairs'.

Please have a look at this picutre (courtesy of Mike-B):

* Your Internet-Service-Provider modem connects via CAT5 (or higher) to a switch.
* Router should be running DHCP (so that it assigns IP addresses automatically to all network components)
* All components connect to a switch in your case Netgear) via CAT5 or higher cable.

The above is a fundamental wired network, which works well with NAIM streamers.

If you could list where your network differs from the above model, we can try to identify areas to be checked.

Once all of those steps have been tested, we will need to check your NDS.
Before you start I would also advise that you perform a factory re-set on your NDS.

Adam

A 16 port switch suggests you have quite a complex network setup. 

Might be an idea to temporarily simplify the network by having only the router, MM and the NDS connected to your switch to see if that makes a difference. I take it that you've also tried swapping the port that the NDS is connected to.

Sorry to hear of your issues Dusty.

One can never be sure. I suspect the NDS is blameless.

Might the dealer come out and test your setup and network? They must deal with these sort of issues from time to time.

I concur that using a NAS is a reliable and logical move which may resolve your issue in the process. QNAP runs Minimserver just lovely. It will run Asset too. I use both (plus another one for video to my telly) and nothing trips over anything else.

Here's hoping.

Adam Zielinski posted:
Dustysox posted:
Adam Zielinski posted:

I'm convinced it 's the network and UPnP configuration rather than NDS itself.

Hi Adam,

Can you elaborate? What would you advise?

Just a short re-cap of a typical streaming network set up. Please forgive if I'm stating the obvious, but in this case I feel it's good to lay out some basics, so that we can work from a 'known state of affairs'.

Please have a look at this picutre (courtesy of Mike-B):

* Your Internet-Service-Provider modem connects via CAT5 (or higher) to a switch.
* Router should be running DHCP (so that it assigns IP addresses automatically to all network components)
* All components connect to a switch in your case Netgear) via CAT5 or higher cable.

The above is a fundamental wired network, which works well with NAIM streamers.

If you could list where your network differs from the above model, we can try to identify areas to be checked.

Once all of those steps have been tested, we will need to check your NDS.
Before you start I would also advise that you perform a factory re-set on your NDS.

Adam

Hi Adam,

Thanky you for this info. I have seen this before and tried a back to basics approach . "Rewired a very basic connection path from the router to the switch/Mac Mini & switch to NDS. Still no joy, so frustrating.

I'm giving up for today until Qnap arrives tomorrow. I can then load Asset on this and see what results I get. 

I really am hoping there is something wrong with the Mac Mini Ethernet etc rather than the NDS.

I am still keen to "beef" up the network side of things + back ups etc.

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