NDS Stops playing

I still have the fault 36 appearing 4/5 times on average after I power cycle my NDX + XP5. No FW update has cured it (I run the latest beta). When it happens it takes an undetermined number of power cycles to overcome it. Reading an older thread here I found during last week that it helps (when Fault 36 appears) to change input to anything but UPNP (can be done via the app, the remote is frozen) - next power cycle seems to do the job

DrPo posted:

I still have the fault 36 appearing 4/5 times on average after I power cycle my NDX + XP5. No FW update has cured it (I run the latest beta). When it happens it takes an undetermined number of power cycles to overcome it. Reading an older thread here I found during last week that it helps (when Fault 36 appears) to change input to anything but UPNP (can be done via the app, the remote is frozen) - next power cycle seems to do the job

Send a note to Phil Harris just to be sure that the DSP update (I think it was the DSP) software that fixes this is actually in whatever firmware you're running!  Worth checking, as that's an ANNOYING bug!

Hi, on the assumption you can't see Asset on your iPad/iPhone, have you tried manually calling up an album/track under uPnP on the NDS and play that.  You may then somehow (I'm not a techie but it worked a few times for me when I couldn't see Asset on iPad - luckily I have not come across this for a while now) "force" Asset to be seen on your tablet?

Good evening,

I/we may be on the path to understanding what might be causing me the problem.....Amazon Echo Dot!!

I was reading earlier Echo thread and was surprised to learn of other folk with a similar problem to me. I have three of the Dots and they are all now unplugged from the mains.The one in the lounge was connected to one of the inputs on my 552.

Lord only knows why this is happening. I did a full factory reset after unplugging the Dots and so far the Naim app is far more responsive and the music as yet has not cut out, not once.

I will speak with Naim in the morning to bring this to there attention and see if they can shed some light on the whys etc.

Suffice to say, it's great to be listening to music again! I will leave the NDS on loop over night to see if it has continued to play the music or stopped. 

What is curious is that we one of the Dots in the kitchen which is connected via bluetooth to my Muso Qb and have not had this problem. Also , with the Muso in the dining albeit running wireless, no problems there either. The Naim app connects to them instantly with no problem of music cutting out. It does seem to be a problem with the Dot & NDS. The Echo Dot does seem to affect the NDS ability to play music from UPnP/Spotify/USB.

Simon-in-Suffolk....any thoughts? Really strange.

Interesting Dusty!  But given what others have said about the problems caused by Amazon Echo / Alexa devices, that could be your ENTIRE problem!

(I had a problem a couple of years ago where a screwy Apple Time Capsule was causing tons of drop-outs on my NDS and Qute2.  The buffers would empty out . . . In my case, it was a problem with the Apple device, as a factory reset of it cured it.  But it goes to show that other devices on your home network CAN interfere.) 

Bart posted:
DrPo posted:

I still have the fault 36 appearing 4/5 times on average after I power cycle my NDX + XP5. No FW update has cured it (I run the latest beta). When it happens it takes an undetermined number of power cycles to overcome it. Reading an older thread here I found during last week that it helps (when Fault 36 appears) to change input to anything but UPNP (can be done via the app, the remote is frozen) - next power cycle seems to do the job

Send a note to Phil Harris just to be sure that the DSP update (I think it was the DSP) software that fixes this is actually in whatever firmware you're running!  Worth checking, as that's an ANNOYING bug!

The erroneous Fault 36 report was fixed - if you are getting ANY fault code that persists after a power cycle then it's a legitimate fault and needs attention.

Phil

Thanks Phil. "Vimion" (RC) had sent me a DSP Bootloader script some time ago which i had not managed to execute, I did so over the weekend (had to rename the .ldr file and edit the .bat script accordingly) and it worked. I will now monitor how the NDX responds after power cycling and if the problem persists i will report it here and to my dealer.

Bart posted:

Interesting Dusty!  But given what others have said about the problems caused by Amazon Echo / Alexa devices, that could be your ENTIRE problem!

(I had a problem a couple of years ago where a screwy Apple Time Capsule was causing tons of drop-outs on my NDS and Qute2.  The buffers would empty out . . . In my case, it was a problem with the Apple device, as a factory reset of it cured it.  But it goes to show that other devices on your home network CAN interfere.) 

Adam Zielinski posted:

Most odd - let's hope the NDS continues to play uninterrupted.

 

Hi all,

Just to confirm that beyond any doubt that it is the Echo Dot causing the problem. In the past two evenings i have switched off the Dot and had no problems with the NDS cutting out. In fact it has run on loop through the night with out any interruptions. YIPPEE!!!!!! When i switch on the Dot the NDS cuts out.

I spoke with Steven @ Naim yesterday morning (what a fine chap he is) and brought it to his attention. Hopefully this issue can be resolved. 

If anyone has any ideas/fixes I would be most interested...I'm all ears... you should see the size of them!!!!!

I am just glad to have music back...i can now focus on DR/service upgrade of my 500 amp now!!!

It has been a frustrating journey,and with all your help we have "nailed" what the problem is. I hope that if the any people have a similar problem a quick search ( i know this will please Adam!!!) will shed some light rather than days/weeks of " agro"!! 

Thank you al.

It might even be a good idea as a "sticky" at the top of the forum until things have been resolved.

DrPo posted:

Thanks Phil. "Vimion" (RC) had sent me a DSP Bootloader script some time ago which i had not managed to execute, I did so over the weekend (had to rename the .ldr file and edit the .bat script accordingly) and it worked. I will now monitor how the NDX responds after power cycling and if the problem persists i will report it here and to my dealer.

Unfortunately I still have the same "Fault 36" problem upon power cycling. I will contact my local dealer 

Ello all!

What i'm interested to know is-

Is this an Amazon Echo problem or Naim? I ask (i may have answered my own question!!) because the Muso and Muso Qb are unaffected by this, as is my Logitech Transporter which sits on the same Fraim as NDS connected to the same switch and looking at the same place where my music is stored.

Is there anything i can do within router/NDS settings to resolve this problem?

Is the firmware the Beta testers are using unaffected by Echo Dot, and if they reverse to firmware 4.4.00 that the problem manifests itself?

At the moment until some fix is available, I have been leaving the Echo Dot powered during the day for the family to use, and then power the Dot off of an evening when i want to listen to uninterrupted music would i be causing my NDS any technical problems which could result in damage which means the NDS has to go to Salisbury for repair?

Being that the NDS seems to be "sharing" network "stuff" would this impact audio quality?

Help....anyone!!!!

 

Dustysox posted:

Ello all!

What i'm interested to know is-

Is this an Amazon Echo problem or Naim? I ask (i may have answered my own question!!) because the Muso and Muso Qb are unaffected by this, as is my Logitech Transporter which sits on the same Fraim as NDS connected to the same switch and looking at the same place where my music is stored.

Is there anything i can do within router/NDS settings to resolve this problem?

Is the firmware the Beta testers are using unaffected by Echo Dot, and if they reverse to firmware 4.4.00 that the problem manifests itself?

At the moment until some fix is available, I have been leaving the Echo Dot powered during the day for the family to use, and then power the Dot off of an evening when i want to listen to uninterrupted music would i be causing my NDS any technical problems which could result in damage which means the NDS has to go to Salisbury for repair?

Being that the NDS seems to be "sharing" network "stuff" would this impact audio quality?

Help....anyone!!!!

 

The issue has been passed up to our software guys with some network traffic grabs from a forum members network - the likelihood is it's similar to what happened with Netflix whereby they were sending a malformed "Stop and listen" broadcast message that they then subsequently fixed however that has to be identified and confirmed.

Oddly it's not affecting everyone with Echo or Echo Dot units as we have a number of users who aren't seeing the same issues.

Phil

Dusty I can only imagine that your NDS is "safe" -- the issue that is effecting it seems very unlikely to actually damage it!  Just frustration . . . but I'm glad you didn't send it off for repair, get it back, and of course then suffer this same issue!

While beta testers cannot comment on what we're testing . . . or aren't testing . . . if I were you I would not worry that you are missing out on something that's a fix for you.  Trust Phil's comment that Naim are working on it and apparently don't have a solution yet (and that maybe it's the Echo's problem and not Naim's).

I think that your solution is perfectly appropriate -- turn off the Echos when you want to use your NDS.  And if Amazon push a firmware update for the Echos, grab it. Who knows maybe they'll fix it, even by accident.

Phil Harris posted:
Dustysox posted:

Ello all!

What i'm interested to know is-

Is this an Amazon Echo problem or Naim? I ask (i may have answered my own question!!) because the Muso and Muso Qb are unaffected by this, as is my Logitech Transporter which sits on the same Fraim as NDS connected to the same switch and looking at the same place where my music is stored.

Is there anything i can do within router/NDS settings to resolve this problem?

Is the firmware the Beta testers are using unaffected by Echo Dot, and if they reverse to firmware 4.4.00 that the problem manifests itself?

At the moment until some fix is available, I have been leaving the Echo Dot powered during the day for the family to use, and then power the Dot off of an evening when i want to listen to uninterrupted music would i be causing my NDS any technical problems which could result in damage which means the NDS has to go to Salisbury for repair?

Being that the NDS seems to be "sharing" network "stuff" would this impact audio quality?

Help....anyone!!!!

 

The issue has been passed up to our software guys with some network traffic grabs from a forum members network - the likelihood is it's similar to what happened with Netflix whereby they were sending a malformed "Stop and listen" broadcast message that they then subsequently fixed however that has to be identified and confirmed.

Oddly it's not affecting everyone with Echo or Echo Dot units as we have a number of users who aren't seeing the same issues.

Phil

Hi Phil,

Great to hear. I guess thats the problem fault finding when not all people wth Echo/Echo Dots are affected. If i can be of any help.......!

I wish you and the software guys a speedy solution.

Out of interest is Naim like the Wonka Factory and are the software guys Oompa Loompas!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Just kidding!

I/we really appreciate the work and effort you guys go to ensure our music enjoyment of which you all do a brilliant job, thank you

.Bart posted:

Dusty I can only imagine that your NDS is "safe" -- the issue that is effecting it seems very unlikely to actually damage it!  Just frustration . . . but I'm glad you didn't send it off for repair, get it back, and of course then suffer this same issue!

While beta testers cannot comment on what we're testing . . . or aren't testing . . . if I were you I would not worry that you are missing out on something that's a fix for you.  Trust Phil's comment that Naim are working on it and apparently don't have a solution yet (and that maybe it's the Echo's problem and not Naim's).

I think that your solution is perfectly appropriate -- turn off the Echos when you want to use your NDS.  And if Amazon push a firmware update for the Echos, grab it. Who knows maybe they'll fix it, even by accident.

Spot on Bart. 

Is Beta Club a bit like Fight Club!!!!!!!

I have a work around which means i get to enjoy music again. My system was really singing last night, thoroughly enjoying the high quality it provides. Can't wait for my 500 DR upgrade over the next couple of months or so.

I do hope Naim/Amazon get it sorted and that this thread will serve to help others who suffer the same problem

No issues here with using Amazon Echo with my NDX at all... and Amazon Echo not causing any issues with my other UPnP devices with discovery messages (and I have a fair amount)  - so I doubt it is 'malformed'. I am using a later firmware on my NDX. i suspects its more an issue with the earlier streamer firmware reacting correctly from a UPnP discovery message that is not audio related.

 

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

No issues here with using Amazon Echo with my NDX at all... and Amazon Echo not causing any issues with my other UPnP devices with discovery messages (and I have a fair amount)  - so I doubt it is 'malformed'. I am using a later firmware on my NDX. i suspects its more an issue with the earlier streamer firmware reacting correctly from a UPnP discovery message that is not audio related.

 

Hi Simon,

It is an odd one as none of my other UPnP devices are affected similar to your findings. I wonder if the firmware you are running albeit beta, is immune to this problem. I do hope so, and if so i hope for a firmware update REAL SOON!!

As I said on the Echo thread I have a similar problem with my SU but, fortunately, this only occurs once every week or so. The Mu-so and Mu-so qb are unaffected. I suspect, but am not sure, that the start of the problems occurred after the arrival of the Echo, they certainly have not always been there.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

I hope so too... almost certain this is nothing to with Amazon at all - nothing to sort out there... Echo really works rather - very impressed with it.. and works very well with my home automation.

Blimey, missing Alexa!!! Mind you it was always going to be her and not the NDS!!!

Are there any updates to solve this issue?

PeterJ posted:

As I said on the Echo thread I have a similar problem with my SU but, fortunately, this only occurs once every week or so. The Mu-so and Mu-so qb are unaffected. I suspect, but am not sure, that the start of the problems occurred after the arrival of the Echo, they certainly have not always been there.

Lucky you Peter, as soon as i switch on the Echo the NDS fails to play music as previously discussed.

Dusty,

great investigation. J have been suffering similar issues lately on my NDS playing from upnp, Tidal and even USB. Come to this Forum to see if anyone else have same issue. Funny enough I have an Echo dot and Echo on my network. Since they were added I had not done any serious long uninterrupted listening, so could not relate it to them. I will try to test by switching them off and see what happens.

ASenna04

Asenna04 posted:

Dusty,

great investigation. J have been suffering similar issues lately on my NDS playing from upnp, Tidal and even USB. Come to this Forum to see if anyone else have same issue. Funny enough I have an Echo dot and Echo on my network. Since they were added I had not done any serious long uninterrupted listening, so could not relate it to them. I will try to test by switching them off and see what happens.

ASenna04

Hi ASenna04,

Thank you.

Just to point out the guys @ Naim have requested some info, hopefully to resolve this issue. I have "pasted" it as below for you and others who might be experiencing the same problem who may read this thread now and in the future.

 

 

Stevesky posted:
Hi Gents,

For those of you who have problems, could you let me know the firmware version that your product is on, if connected wifi or wired and also what model of product it is.

Many thanks

Steve

Group Software Director

Hi Steve,

I nearly missed your post, great you guys are on the case. Might be an idea to make this a "sticky" so others with this problem don't miss the oppotunity to report observations.

NDS

Firmware 4.4.00

Wired

Echo now disconnected until my Naim NDS has an update which means that it is not affected by Echo and both can cohabit.

I have now done some testing by powering off my Echo's and lo and behold the NDS is not dropping out. It has played as I type for over 2 hours and not stopping. My settings are same as Dusty's:-

NDS

Firmware 4.4.00

Ethernet (Wired)

I hope this will help with the resolution. Happy to provide any other information to troubleshoot or even beta test the fix.

I still have the TIDAL dropouts issue that is being discussed on a separate forum. 

Dusty, many thanks for the insight. 

ASenna04

Hi all,

Just to update....drum roll......!

Phil kindly sent me a Beta version firmware to try which I was able to install on my NDS.  Tried playing some music, all worked and then powered the Amazon Echo Dot's.......guess what...music continued to play...brilliant stuff....!!

I'm not sure, how etc but this firmware has certainly cured my problem. I'm sure if you are experiencing the same problem and contacted Naim that you could also try this firmware (Windows Only, Mac version not available, yet).

Well done to all @ Naim. We are in great company here forum friends with Naim. They do get a rough ride sometimes and it's important to give them the good news and to say thank you as they most certainly deserve it, we are really lucky with the level/standard/service that we all get from them.

I did clear this with Phil, and asked if I could post this as anyone else experiencing the same problem as me will be able to see that there is light at the end of the tunnel.

Now...Naim...hurry up and get my 500 in for service and DR upgrade....sorry couldn't resist!!!

 

 

Super!  I'm still not sure I want that thing listening to everything going on in my home!  I'm typically NOT paranoid of technology, but I've not yet warmed up to it.  And I don't think I own anything it can control, other than my Nest thermostats. 

Bart posted:

Super!  I'm still not sure I want that thing listening to everything going on in my home!  I'm typically NOT paranoid of technology, but I've not yet warmed up to it.  And I don't think I own anything it can control, other than my Nest thermostats. 

Good point Bart, Alexa is so darn helpful and useful. I use it with Bluetooth to my Muso Qb in the kitchen, much more convenient to change radio stations verbally than getting a device out opening the Naim app etc etc. The weather reports for the day is also good,  and the kids love it for shear silliness of it all...ask Alexa how much the Earth weighs and you get a pretty lengthy answer! Also, as a glorified egg timer, and I had her linked into controlling all our Christmas lights which was a lot easier than going round switching everything on  and all the ruddy time.

and the best thing is she don't answer back...I wonder if she's married!!!!!!

 

 

That's fab Harry, and can you wish me the money to pay for it 

 

 

Well after too too long and a 260 pound bill. My unitiqute is back. Guess what. Its the same.

I do have an echo dot on the network and since turning it off it's been better. I rang naim to ask what they did. Apparently they changed what amounts to the logic board.

The frustration is of course that it could have been the echo dot all along and I have paid for something not needed. They did stress that they would not replace a board if it was not faulty.

Having the dot replaced to see if faulty dots are to blame. 

Still that bill stings and could have got me some more music.

Friends have Alexa and we're waxing lyrical about just asking for Cliff Richard and it plays you a track. Etcetc .They also have two parrots which they have trained to talk, and have learnt to get Alexa to react to their chit chat. It's now turned off most of the time!

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