New Speakers for NAC-N272/NAP200DR

Hi guys,

I am looking for a speaker upgrade with a speaker in the €4000,- - €5000,- range.

I already have listened quickly to a pair of Dali Epicon 2 on NAD separates and I want to further listen them on my own equipment but what I've already heard was lovely. Also love the looks of them.

Speakers I want to audition besides the Epicons are: Dynaudio Contour 20, Audiovector SR1 Avantgarde Arrete and Monitor Audio PL100 II.

What I am looking for is a sparkling (but not fatiguing) high end, a lovely mid-end and a bold, fundamental low end. Not sure if I am expressing myself right, but those are the words that I think of if I want to express my feelings about a certain speaker. 

My Excites are already lovely but I've heard the difference in SQ when I've heard the Epicons, very entertaining. 

Are there any owners of above speakers (and system) who can enlighten me about their sound, maybe you've also heard other speakers which you've disliked?

Thanks.

Original Post

I was just going to suggest the S20A, which are very good, as are the Contour 20. But.... I’d swap the 200 for a 250DR at the same time. It’s worth thinking about whether you plan to add an XPSDR to the 272. If you are, then the 272/XPS/250 would make a great system with the Kudos or Dynaudio C20. If not, you may be better with less ambitious speakers. Even something more modest like the PMC twenty.23 really benefits from the drive of a 250DR. 

revolino

if i remember your setup correctly - there was a big rack in-between the 2 stereo speakers..

why dont you try playing around with the positioning of the speakers ?

try eliminating the cabinet / rack in between and see how it improves the sound ??

New speakers at the high prices you mention may not be required after all..

sorry to play a dampner but i see many systems here that are not ideally placed and then the mind games start about getting a new component or a new box.

 maybe you may not need any new component after all - just lots of music 

edit - if you save yourself lots of Euros - you know where to send the beers to ?? 

 

regards

 CIver van de Zand posted:

do not forget the Q-Acoustic Concept 500

Thanks for the advice but I want standmounts instead of floorstanders.

The Strat (Fender) posted:

Hi,

I can't recommend Kudos S20s enough. Hifimatters are the distributor in Holland I understand.

Regards,

Lindsay

Thanks, I will try to audition the Kudos also.

hungryhalibut posted:

I was just going to suggest the S20A, which are very good, as are the Contour 20. But.... I’d swap the 200 for a 250DR at the same time. It’s worth thinking about whether you plan to add an XPSDR to the 272. If you are, then the 272/XPS/250 would make a great system with the Kudos or Dynaudio C20. If not, you may be better with less ambitious speakers. Even something more modest like the PMC twenty.23 really benefits from the drive of a 250DR. 

I would like to upgrade the 200 to the 250 but unfortunately I don’t have that many funds available. Same goes for the XPS DR, I would like it, but I don’t have the funds... I am lucky that I can upgrade the speakers soon. Do you think the Contour 20’s are too demanding for the 200DR? I’ve asked a dealer to audition the Contours with my system so I can check it out, hope they have the components in stock. 

I will also audition the Epicons again with my own system.

mpw posted:

revolino

if i remember your setup correctly - there was a big rack in-between the 2 stereo speakers..

why dont you try playing around with the positioning of the speakers ?

try eliminating the cabinet / rack in between and see how it improves the sound ??

New speakers at the high prices you mention may not be required after all..

sorry to play a dampner but i see many systems here that are not ideally placed and then the mind games start about getting a new component or a new box.

 maybe you may not need any new component after all - just lots of music 

edit - if you save yourself lots of Euros - you know where to send the beers to ?? 

 

regards

I have my tv and tv furniture in the middle of the speakers. Must say that I did play with the placement of the speakers when I just got them but this is certainly the sweet spot. 

And this is just a case of upgraderitis and the fact that I got lucky with the available funds. I have the feeling my Excites (don’t get me wrong, I LOVE them) are a bit understated in comparison with the amplifiers. Sure maybe with the upgrade of the speakers the system will be understated but than I know I did my best to get everything out of it. 

And besides that, I did like the sound of the Epicons on way less equipment than mine.

I ran a pair of Dyn Confidence C1s from a 272>200 combo for a couple of years.  Checking the specs of the Contour 20 they seem very close to those of the C1.  I found the 200 to be sufficient, capable, and very pleasant, but it seemed just a tiny bit thin, especially at moderate volumes and above.  Replacing the 200 with a 250DR proved to be more than satisfactory with a much fuller and more robust sound at all volumes, better grip, wider soundstage, and more sparkle in the top, as you'd expect.  Whether you will be happy with the 20s may come down to the size of your room, how "live" it is, and what kind of music you prefer.  Definitely try for a home audition, "It's the only way to be sure."

I use Contour 20 and really enjoy them. I've recently heard PMC 25.23 and also liked them. I won't change the C20 for 25.23. Very interested in the Kudos S20A but afraid they may beyond my budget. S10 is a possibility but I think I would have to give up some low end with those compared to my Contour 20. May gain a little detail in the highs but then could that be bordering fatiguing sound? No fatigue at all with Contour 20. 

Today I've auditioned both Contour 20's and SR1 Avantgarde Arrété's on my system.

I was very disappointed about the SQ of the Contour but the more I liked the SQ of the SR1's. 

The Contours were dull, boring sounding. I also was baffled about the lack of low end, as this should be a strong point of the Contour. I did hear that they went lower than the SR1's but the overall sound quality of the SR1 was way better. If there was a curtain hanging in front of the speakers and this curtain was removed with the auditioning of the SR1's.

What I also liked about the SR1's was the fact that I got goosebumps listening to some tunes I am very familiar with. These goosebumps were not there when listening the same tunes on the Contour. Another thing was low-volume listening, the Contours are sounding their best at high volumes, the SR1's are sounding great throughout the whole volume spectrum. 

The only thing left to do is auditioning the Epicons on my system and then making my mind about either the SR1's or the Epicon. 

I will do home auditioning in the form of ''not satisfied, money back within 14 days'' when buying online as both dealers don't do home auditioning. 

As for the other recommendations: there aren't any dealers in my vicinity that have the Kudos / PMC in stock for auditioning so that's a pity.

I do appreciate all replies from you guys!

Don’t get hung up on speakers by a salesman. Imo keep your speakers sell your 200 use the money plus some and go for a 250dr secondhand or new. You will fine your system to be a revelation. You will also find your speakers will love you for it. Nap 200 are a nice amp but a good 250/250dr will make you blink with more sound stage. Intime save up for some speakers, the 250 will allow a wider variety of speakers . The 250 will open the envelope for you I promise. Remember new Naim boxes take time to settle in and prefer to be left powered on all the time.

well that’s what I would do.

Revoliño posted:
 Do you think the Contour 20’s are too demanding for the 200DR?

I do, absolutely. No way I'd consider a 4-ohm, 86 dB speaker a prospective match for a 70-W amp. I guess your findings today confirmed that. No one has mentioned them here, but I'd listen to Proac if you have access. Proac's are generally well-balanced tonally, fast and  musical, pair well with Naim, not terribly difficult to drive, and have a variety of models within your budget. Plus they offer some high frequency "customization" per the listener's room between their dome and ribbon tweeters. Hope that's an option for you.

Sounsfaber posted:
Klout10 posted:

Such a wonderful place to be this forum ... the OP asks for speaker advice and gets the recommendation to buy more black boxes ...

Always the members have other members best interests at heart. 

A perfectly valid suggestion for the OP to consider in my opinion. Besides, this is the Naim forum. They make amps, not speakers!

 

I got an older but still the great Dynaudio contour S5.4 on Nap200/nac272/cd5i-2 and have all that power and control i want. Very good match indeed naim and Dynaudio. It's your personal taste. room acoustics which give your preference offcourse. I like my combination. Speed, openess, soundstage, deep controlled bass and transperans.

My dream is nap300 😊

 

 

 

spurrier sucks posted:

Dyns do sound best, to me, when they are turned up. Contours are also a bit laid back compared to so some other Dyn models so boring to some does not come as a surprise. Good luck with your other auditions and hopefully you'll find what works best for you. 

The older contours sound better in my opinion. But also a matter of taste 

Well the thing is, we all get “Naimed” at the end of the day.  My suggestion will save you money in the long run.  You will end up wanting a 250 or better (trust me been there done that) to put in your listening room and omg base boom from those £5000 speakers then you end up pulling your hair out and  auditioning new speakers $$$.  

Look I don’t know your life or your listening room, but when somebody has a  budget  of up to £5000 for a set of speakers I guess your a serious Sam about your audio. £5000 wow nice, but you may need to feed them to get the best out of them.  Ferrari with low octane fuel.....I don’t think so. All kudos to the nap200 but balanced systems sound and feel better.

Klout10 posted:

Such a wonderful place to be this forum ... the OP asks for speaker advice and gets the recommendation to buy more black boxes ...

For sure, there's an upper crust demographic here. Folks that upgrade black boxes and presume it automatically merits a viable upgrade because it costed more. Like-minded folks blindly accept what their trusted dealer tells them to do. A third group (apparently) replies without reading the OP. A fourth group assumes that what worked in their room will work in yours, yet provide no compelling evidence or details as to why. The so-called "no brainers".

Then there are the mavericks. Objective, willing to do their homework, legwork, and actually get contending speakers home for trial.  Glean from the forum, but trust their own ears in the end.

ChrisSU posted:
Besides, this is the Naim forum.

They make amps, not speakers!

Presumptive logic like this simply leads to thread digression and futility. 

'Naim make amps not speakers' - a juvenile rationalization, yet apparently self-vindicating in the poster's mind.

joerand posted:
ChrisSU posted:
Besides, this is the Naim forum.

They make amps, not speakers!

Presumptive logic like this simply leads to thread digression and futility. 

'Naim make amps not speakers' - a juvenile rationalization, yet apparently self-vindicating in the poster's mind.

That was just a light hearted observation on my part. The main point of my post was the bit that you deleted from the quote, and I stand by that opinion. It’s a suggestion on a public discussion forum, not an order. 

Sounsfaber posted:

Oh dear, It would be helpful for the OP (which has been read by all) to get differing suggestions and ideas even though we all know he was looking at speakers.   a horse to water ....

I've been on this forum for some time now and always hope that I could avoid showing my ignorance of the abbreviations but alas I have to expose myself!! "OP and SQ" - somebody please put me out of my misery! Thank you.

Well that escalated quickly. 

I appreciate the recommendation about upgrading the 200 but I will begin with the speaker upgrade as this already proved succesfull in the auditions I did. 

I think I want to audition the Contour again but at home as I am still surprised about the dull sound during the audition at the store. If these speakers still cannot get me I will do home auditions of the other ones. 

I would advise you consider your 'end game' (for the medium/long term in any event).  Of course the NAP200 will power all speakers but, as many have experienced, some speakers require amplification with greater current to sound their best and, when they do, may out perform speakers that sound better with lower current amplification.

Personally, I would recommend ATC speakers although these do benefit from being powered by a NAP250DR or greater.  I actually auditioned them at the dealers with a NAP200DR and they sounded a little flat/dull (the dealer's NAP250DR was out on demo at the time). I also auditioned the Kudos X2 at the same time which sounded good and lively with the NAP200, much better than the ATC 11s and 19s. However, we tried them with a NAP300DR and the ATCs came alive and sounded better than the Kudos (all subjective and to my ears).  So I chose to audition the ATCs at home and they sound great with my NAP250DR.

So, if the intention is to keep the NAP200 for the next four to five years audition whatever and choose the speakers that sound best with this combination.  However, if you intend to upgrade your amplification in the next year or two I would advise you to audition with your 'target' system (good dealers would loan an amplifier at the same time as the speakers).  What you might find is another set of speakers sound better with your current amp but not as good as another set of speakers with your target amp.  I would rather have a year or so with a slightly sub optimal combination knowing in the medium term I have optimised my system to my tastes and room.

 

 

alanbass1 posted:

I would advise you consider your 'end game' (for the medium/long term in any event).  Of course the NAP200 will power all speakers but, as many have experienced, some speakers require amplification with greater current to sound their best and, when they do, may out perform speakers that sound better with lower current amplification.

Personally, I would recommend ATC speakers although these do benefit from being powered by a NAP250DR or greater.  I actually auditioned them at the dealers with a NAP200DR and they sounded a little flat/dull (the dealer's NAP250DR was out on demo at the time). I also auditioned the Kudos X2 at the same time which sounded good and lively with the NAP200, much better than the ATC 11s and 19s. However, we tried them with a NAP300DR and the ATCs came alive and sounded better than the Kudos (all subjective and to my ears).  So I chose to audition the ATCs at home and they sound great with my NAP250DR.

So, if the intention is to keep the NAP200 for the next four to five years audition whatever and choose the speakers that sound best with this combination.  However, if you intend to upgrade your amplification in the next year or two I would advise you to audition with your 'target' system (good dealers would loan an amplifier at the same time as the speakers).  What you might find is another set of speakers sound better with your current amp but not as good as another set of speakers with your target amp.  I would rather have a year or so with a slightly sub optimal combination knowing in the medium term I have optimised my system to my tastes and room.

 

 

I think this is really good advice.  I started my Naim journey with no idea what the endgame would be, or even that there would be an endgame: my dealer simply told me a Naim Uniti receiver would sound much better than what I had, and he was right.  Over the years it's meant, however, many expensive upgrades, trades, and frankly some swapped out Naim pieces in storage that I haven't yet parted with - including a 200 amp.  If you can audition the speakers you're interested in with your "endgame" amp that would make a lot of sense to me.

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