New to Naim: Nova vs 272 vs ND5XS and 250DR vs 300DR

Good luck Perizoqui, I for one would be very interested to hear the differences between the 272 and the Nova with the internal  amp disabled. I am looking for a streaming source and the new uniti range with its new platform and hopefully greater future proofing may have come along at just the right time. 

What about a Chord Dave instead of the 272/XPS?

I blame this all on you and your beautiful system pics... Thing is, a NAC-N 272 + XPS Dr is right around the same price as a Chord Dave, and all I ever do is stream digital. The streaming could be done directly from my Synology NAS into the Dave's USB input or through a microrendu...

1) Naim NAC-N 272 + XPS DR + NAP300DR ((£3,469+£3,820+£4,539+£3,130)/1.2=£12,465)

2) Chord Dave + NAP300DR ((£7,995+£4,539+£3,130)/1.2=£13,053)

Ends up being the same amount of money, and I'm not sure I can afford it, but never mind that for now. Kids don't need to go to college, just fills there heads with ideas.

Thoughts?

---Pedro

Some people say it does not sound as good without a Naim preamp (my guess is that is depends how significantbthe 'Naim sound' is. I use Dave direct into a powr amp (not Naim), and would be interested to hear the 300 against my amp (or 500 against one above), as I like what I understand of Naim's power amp philosophy. If you have a chnace to try do post your finidngs!

perizoqui posted:

What about a Chord Dave instead of the 272/XPS?

I blame this all on you and your beautiful system pics... Thing is, a NAC-N 272 + XPS Dr is right around the same price as a Chord Dave, and all I ever do is stream digital. The streaming could be done directly from my Synology NAS into the Dave's USB input or through a microrendu...

1) Naim NAC-N 272 + XPS DR + NAP300DR ((£3,469+£3,820+£4,539+£3,130)/1.2=£12,465)

2) Chord Dave + NAP300DR ((£7,995+£4,539+£3,130)/1.2=£13,053)

Ends up being the same amount of money, and I'm not sure I can afford it, but never mind that for now. Kids don't need to go to college, just fills there heads with ideas.

Thoughts?

---Pedro

i really like to listen this two set up head to head..... i own number one but after all the fuss about Dave it makes me wonder...

perizoqui posted:

What about a Chord Dave instead of the 272/XPS?

I blame this all on you and your beautiful system pics... Thing is, a NAC-N 272 + XPS Dr is right around the same price as a Chord Dave, and all I ever do is stream digital. The streaming could be done directly from my Synology NAS into the Dave's USB input or through a microrendu...

1) Naim NAC-N 272 + XPS DR + NAP300DR ((£3,469+£3,820+£4,539+£3,130)/1.2=£12,465)

2) Chord Dave + NAP300DR ((£7,995+£4,539+£3,130)/1.2=£13,053)

Ends up being the same amount of money, and I'm not sure I can afford it, but never mind that for now. Kids don't need to go to college, just fills there heads with ideas.

Thoughts?

---Pedro

If you go the Dave route you won't be controlling the system via the Naim app, so you'll need to find another way. That may or may not matter. You really need to try the alternative and see how it both sounds and feels like to use. The Dave/300 won't be a full Naim amp setup, which again my not matter. Naim preamps' output ensures an ideal operating environment for their power amps. I find it reassuring to know that everything is designed to work together - maybe that's boring. 

Sometimes, the right thing to do is just to make a decision. You can go round the houses for ever. 

perizoqui posted:
Hungryhalibut posted:

Sometimes, the right thing to do is just to make a decision. You can go round the houses for ever. 

Right you are. I've got my listening date at the dealer two weeks from today. Until then, must learn patience.

You can't go wrong, that's the good thing. It will all be fine.

Many fond memories of Oxford, especially fish and chips in 'The Eagle and Child' and the marvelous choir of St. Magdalen.

i also think that Chord Dave + NAP 300DR sounds v interesting and looking forward to report. If staying with Naim i would certainly be looking at a N272 into NAP 300DR as my first option as plenty of future scope to build your system around the 300 in the future. 

Are you going to audition the 272 with and without the XPS?

dvshannow posted:

Are you going to audition the 272 with and without the XPS?

Absolutely. Part of my concern relates to my own ears, and my ability to tell the difference between various degrees of sophistication. I'm virtually sold on the 300, but I'm unsure as a purely digital source whether I'll hear and/or prefer the difference between the 272, Hugo 2, and Dave. If I like all three equally, I'll definitely go for the 272 for the ease of integration question. Same with XPS vs no XPS. If I can't hear a £3,820 difference I'll pass, or maybe get a 272 and a Dave later (using the 272 as streamer and preamp with Dave in the middle), or maybe just wait. Praying for tin ears 

perizoqui posted:
Emre posted:

i really like to listen this two set up head to head..... i own number one but after all the fuss about Dave it makes me wonder...

Me too, if I get my chance to do a side-by-side I'll report back.

Add new blu2 mscaler to the formula if you can

Both 16/44 and 24/192!

Dave***t posted:
perizoqui posted:
using the 272 as streamer and preamp with Dave in the middle

Not possible, unfortunately - you can't run from 272 streamer to offboard DAC then back into 272 analogue input.

Yes, that's the way it works. An NDX would make more sense.

Dave***t posted:
perizoqui posted:
using the 272 as streamer and preamp with Dave in the middle

Not possible, unfortunately - you can't run from 272 streamer to offboard DAC then back into 272 analogue input.

Why's that? There's a digital S/PDIF output on the 272 and lots of analog inputs...

perizoqui posted:
Dave***t posted:
perizoqui posted:
using the 272 as streamer and preamp with Dave in the middle

Not possible, unfortunately - you can't run from 272 streamer to offboard DAC then back into 272 analogue input.

Why's that? There's a digital S/PDIF output on the 272 and lots of analog inputs...

When you selected the relevant analogue input on the app, you would no longer be within the UPnP input for control. If you want separates, you need to buy separates, not all-in-ones like the 272 or Unitis. Thus my suggestion to do it with an NDX, then you can try it either with a Naim preamp, or direct into a power amp with less redundancy than the 272.

ChrisSU posted:
perizoqui posted:
Dave***t posted:
perizoqui posted:
using the 272 as streamer and preamp with Dave in the middle

Not possible, unfortunately - you can't run from 272 streamer to offboard DAC then back into 272 analogue input.

Why's that? There's a digital S/PDIF output on the 272 and lots of analog inputs...

When you selected the relevant analogue input on the app, you would no longer be within the UPnP input for control. If you want separates, you need to buy separates, not all-in-ones like the 272 or Unitis. Thus my suggestion to do it with an NDX, then you can try it either with a Naim preamp, or direct into a power amp with less redundancy than the 272.

Or microrendu but 272 is just fine as it is....

If you need a headphone amp then maybe then just with hugo/Dave to see the difference with speakers vs. 272 dac with a small investment, otherwise one half of the 272 is wasted

One thing to consider, as mentioned Naim are changing their streaming platform, steps taken with the new Uniti range will trickle upwards into their ND streamer range and NAC-N series. The NAC-N 172 has already been discontinued. I wouldn't invest in a 272 at this stage.

totemphile posted:

One thing to consider, as mentioned Naim are changing their streaming platform, steps taken with the new Uniti range will trickle upwards into their ND streamer range and NAC-N series. The NAC-N 172 has already been discontinued. I wouldn't invest in a 272 at this stage.

The grass in always greener later in the year?

The likelihood of Naim imminently discontinuing the 272, which is incredibly popular and a big seller for Naim, appears slimmer than a very slim thing. There will be new products coming, with the new streaming platform onboard, to replace the 272, NDX and NDS in due course, but it's got to be a way off, given the challenges of getting the new Uniti range to market. And, of course, once something is discontinued it doesn't instantly become any worse. And the new things won't necessarily sound hugely better; they'll just do more. 

totemphile posted:

One thing to consider, as mentioned Naim are changing their streaming platform, steps taken with the new Uniti range will trickle upwards into their ND streamer range and NAC-N series. The NAC-N 172 has already been discontinued. I wouldn't invest in a 272 at this stage.

anything they launch instead of 272 have to be classic series, power supply upgradable and power amp connectable.... 

so a 372

ChrisSU posted:

When you selected the relevant analogue input on the app, you would no longer be within the UPnP input for control. If you want separates, you need to buy separates, not all-in-ones like the 272 or Unitis. Thus my suggestion to do it with an NDX, then you can try it either with a Naim preamp, or direct into a power amp with less redundancy than the 272.

Is this a UPnP control issue (in which case I can just use a different app for streaming), or does the 272 shut off the streamer when you select an analog input?

Hungryhalibut posted:

To get the streamer to play you select the upnp input. Then if you select another input to get sound from a DAC, the upnp input switches off. There is no possible way to do it. If you want to add a DAC to a streamer, don't get a 272. Get a NDX and a 282, or better of course. 

Ah, very informative, thank you. Makes sense I suppose as selecting an analog input, you'd want to lower the digital noise as much as possible and shutting off the streamer and DAC will help do that. I could still do microrendu to Hugo2/Dave to 272 analog input if I wanted to play with other DACs. No worries. I'll listen to as many variations as I can in two weeks and report back.

Trying to see if Naim will accept kidneys as trade-ins. I only need one of the ones I've got.

perizoqui posted:
totemphile posted:

I wouldn't invest in a 272 at this stage.

Oh I don't know about that. Of course I have no idea what Naim will do in the future, but it's a very new product. I imagine they'd retire the NDS/NDX/nDAC/DAC-V1 before the 272...

N272 is two years old or so... I cannot see Naim retiring it anytime soon

perizoqui posted:

Trying to see if Naim will accept kidneys as trade-ins. I only need one of the ones I've got.

Few of us tried that already..... doesn't quite work. I think Naim have too many kidneys stashed in their warehouse already.... 

Update!

Have arrived in sunny England. Spent last evening at one dealership and this morning at a different dealership. The first was not able to source the 300 and their 250 broke, the second wasn't able to source the Chord. Neither had the same pair of speakers on offer and neither had my speakers. The first was very interested in steering me towards Devialet over Naim, the second was very interested in letting me listen to exactly what I came in wanting to listen to. The first had myriad choices to look at. The second had just the one I'd listed as being most interested in (272+300). Both were very very nice people. So in a nutshell: impossible to make any real comparisons or draw any conclusions between setups, or with my home setup. But that's boring, so here are some comparisons and conclusions from someone who should know better:

1) Devialet -I'm sorry but I just don't get it. I've heard their amps in Chicago, at the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest in Denver, and now in England. Garbage. No, really. I mean the case is novel looking, a bit plasticky, and I do feel an urge to stand on it and see how many pork pies I've had since my arrival. Mmmmm... pork pies. The remote is novel, bit useless. But the sound, that's what it's all about right? That's the junk part. I mean the first dealer played the 220 and the 1000 into first Sonus Faber and then ATC speakers. All the notes are there, but it's so lifeless! Absolutely uninvolving. I'm a lousy audiophile, I don't hear veils lifted or sense blacker blacks, or clue into the separation between notes, or other unmeasurable quantities regularly identified by my betters. But I do know when a violin sounds like nails on a chalkboard, and I know when after listening to the same piece for 10 minutes I want to listen for another 10, or go check my email. The Devialet is not for me. Beethoven's Kreutzer played by Grumiaux is unlistenable. The rest of my music collection is boring. Maybe if I listened to more Rock and Roll? Maybe Electronica? Maybe that's it, Devialet is for the boom boom boom crowd. Good for them. But I'm shocked if anyone who listens to classical primarily, and has heard a McIntosh or a Naim or frankly an NAD amp, thinks Devialet is fantastic. And don't get me started on the Phantoms. Reminds me of those cars we see in the inner city with the back end bouncing up and down to the booming bass in rap. All hat and no cattle as they say in Texas. Must be a fad. Unfortunately the dealer was impervious to my lack of enthusiasm. He was also distinctly unimpressed by my inability to distinguish the "night and day" difference between SAM on and off into the ATCs as well. Wonderful guy, really, I just have different taste.

2) Chord Dave - Wow. Even running into the Devialet power amp (I couldn't get the dealer off the damned French stuff!), it was loads better than the Devialet DAC. Would have loved to compare it to the 272, and would have loved to hear both into a Naim amp. Alas, couldn't. They wouldn't take a kidney either, so I can't afford it.

3) Naim 272 into 300. I spent an hour and a half this morning listening to these two into some B&W CM10s at the second dealer. That dealer had to beat me over the head to drag me out of the listening room. Nothing to compare them to, but it was just wonderful. I believe my speakers are significantly better, but the combination here was fantastic. The room wasn't ideal, but we made do. Anyway, worth a go if I can work out logistics. If it doesn't work out at home, I can sell them in the US for what I paid in the UK and not be out much. So I'll have to wait till I get home to do a proper comparison between the 272 into 300 and my McIntosh integrated on my speakers in my room. I'll be very surprised if I'm not pleased. The 272 into 300 was a glorious combination. I could have spent all day in that room. Happily.

4) Chord Hugo 2 into 300. This is what I was planning on buying assuming auditions went well. But the Hugo 2 isn't out yet, and the 272 was just too wonderful. I may order a Hugo 2 and do a side by side comparing 272 into 300 against Aries Mini into Hugo 2 into 300. Then sell the one I don't like. I may not. I really loved the 272, so why bother?

Question: speaker cables. I've got some cheap and cheerful Blue Jeans cables and I'm a speaker cable sceptic. That said, I've read a lot about NAC A5 and Tellurium Black and Chord Shawline and many others. Any recommendations for that sweet spot where cables work with my gear (which so many of you seem to have) and don't cost superlumina money?

Thanks all! Will post system photos in that other thread when I return to Indiana.

---Pedro

Adam Zielinski posted:
Timo posted:

A speaker cable question and after 3 hours nobody from the Tellurium Q brigade showed up!!?? What's going on? 

They are all too busy listening to the inky tellurium black with a wide Q.

Yes, but Tellurium Q is like a "black box upgrade" -- they need to tell/evangalise him... 

perizoqui posted:

1) Devialet -I'm sorry but I just don't get it. I've heard their amps in Chicago, at the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest in Denver, and now in England. Garbage. No, really. I mean the case is novel looking, a bit plasticky, and I do feel an urge to stand on it and see how many pork pies I've had since my arrival.

Comment of the day for me lol

james n posted:

Out of interest have you not considered the DAVE with your present McIntosh integrated ?

I have... the sad bit is that I don't have a dealer nearby for any of these things. It's hard to spend that kind of cash on something without listening to it in your own rig first. If I bought it in conjunction with a new rig that'd be different as that would become the full setup. The Hugo 2 would be a more reasonable proposition given the price difference. Maybe I should...

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