Not quite deserving of a Darwin Award but.....

ChrisSU posted:

I presumed that you meant L and R were reversed, so no sound quality effect expected - as opposed to wiring out of phase, which would not have been so good?

Exactly. Looking at the amp from the front, the speakers were connected to their nearest ports. I had the phasing correct but never in a million years did I think the cables needed to connect to the ports furthest away from them. I only found out when I sent a dodgy interconnect cable back for inspection which kept dropping the left channel (which I posted on a few weeks ago). The manufacturer confirmed 1 channel is dodgy but it's the right one, not the left one. He then asked if I had the speaker cables plugged in correctly - they should cross over at the back (which they don't!).

What an absolute berk!

 

Jonners posted:

I've just found out I've had my speaker cables plugged in the wrong way round on the back of my 200.

They've been this way for the last 14 years. Humiliation and embarrassment doesn't even come close.....

Never had cause to use the balance control ?  Or to dust ? 

Naim have always put the sockets the 'wrong' way round, allegedly from their days of producing pro audio gear which would be used with the sockets facing forwards, and therefore the 'right' way round. They finally got round to changing this with the latest Unitis, so if you buy one of those, you'll probably make the same mistake again  

Ardbeg10y posted:

How is it, violins on the right side of an orchestra?

I don't listen to Classical music but forming a mental picture of an orchestral put, I'd have to say the sections would be out of kilter. It does explain why listening to music with heavy left to right and right to left "panning", such as "The Race" by Yello seemed to sound rather odd! 

I did the same for about 5 years.  I noticed that L/R presentation was different when I switched to separates from the Nait but there were other more interesting changes too.  I didn't care about soundstage (still don't) and had a small listening room besides.  A similar thread on the forum clued me in.  

Jonners posted:
Ardbeg10y posted:

How is it, violins on the right side of an orchestra?

I don't listen to Classical music but forming a mental picture of an orchestral put, I'd have to say the sections would be out of kilter. It does explain why listening to music with heavy left to right and right to left "panning", such as "The Race" by Yello seemed to sound rather odd! 

I can’t think of a reason why it should make anything sound noticeably odd Jonners. The way I understand it, you’ve simply been listening to a mirror image of the intended soundstage with no effect on image centralisation or the quality of sound reproduction as such? Jumbled up phase could have caused SQ issues, but as I understand it, switched L/R is really just cosmetics. Someone please correct me if I have that wrong.

kevin J Carden posted:
Jonners posted:
Ardbeg10y posted:

How is it, violins on the right side of an orchestra?

I don't listen to Classical music but forming a mental picture of an orchestral put, I'd have to say the sections would be out of kilter. It does explain why listening to music with heavy left to right and right to left "panning", such as "The Race" by Yello seemed to sound rather odd! 

I can’t think of a reason why it should make anything sound noticeably odd Jonners. The way I understand it, you’ve simply been listening to a mirror image of the intended soundstage with no effect on image centralisation or the quality of sound reproduction as such? Jumbled up phase could have caused SQ issues, but as I understand it, switched L/R is really just cosmetics. Someone please correct me if I have that wrong.

Well, I have intentionally listened a few weeks to an inverted image - I'm trying to find different positions for my loudspeakers. There were two reasons why I did not entirely like the inverted image:

1) It simply does not compute in my mind anymore. I have a persistent trigger telling me something is wrong - mostly because of the violins on the other side.

2) reflections. When one loudspeaker is closer to a side wall, that loudspeaker sounds louder causing an unbalance in the image. The other way around would have been an issue as well though.

A while ago I noticed during a demo that my dealer had wired L and R the wrong way round. I only noticed because it was a track I knew very well, and the vocals were coming from the wrong side of the room. As expected, it didn't sound worse, just different.

I was trying DSD 512 upsampling to  Holo DAC and noticed Ringo had switched sides in strawberry fields and contacted Magna Hifi who I’d bought the DAC from. They confirmed the LR switch and said I was the first customer to notice it. So it’s easily missed apparently. (A firmware update moved Ringo back!). 

.sjb

For rock & pop, there's a language [for want of a better word] that music and stereo positioning fits within. Movement is generally left to right, hi-hats & crashes have a place that corresponds to the drum kit; when a guitar is double-tracked and starts first on one side then the other joins in it'll be left first then right. That's just the way it is, normally.

Disclaimer - 70s rock & pop is my gig, ymmv. One of my usual checks when reconnecting everything new or old back together is to play It's Late on the News Of The World album. a) It's great and b) the guitar double tracks left to right at the start. It just does. Any excuse will do to play it.

kevin J Carden posted:
Jonners posted:
Ardbeg10y posted:

How is it, violins on the right side of an orchestra?

I don't listen to Classical music but forming a mental picture of an orchestral put, I'd have to say the sections would be out of kilter. It does explain why listening to music with heavy left to right and right to left "panning", such as "The Race" by Yello seemed to sound rather odd! 

I can’t think of a reason why it should make anything sound noticeably odd Jonners. The way I understand it, you’ve simply been listening to a mirror image of the intended soundstage with no effect on image centralisation or the quality of sound reproduction as such? Jumbled up phase could have caused SQ issues, but as I understand it, switched L/R is really just cosmetics. Someone please correct me if I have that wrong.

Why not switch yours around, then listen to some albums that you are particularly familiar with, and see what you think?

When I bought my first 'serious' TT after years I connected my Grado Prestige Blue and listened happily for months. Then one day I noticed that definitely with classical music the orchestra was reversed. So I checked and found out that not only my channels were in fact reversed but there was a chance that one of the two was out of phase with the other.

Working with glasses, tweezers, a magnifying lens and the care one would reserve for his own testicles, I started to disconnect the four straws and they were so tight that extracting the first one I tore off all four and remained with the bare wires, naked copper, hanging out of the tonearm.

I wonder if it wouldn't have been wiser to simulate I was listening to an American Orchestra of the 50s and keep everything as it was...

Best anyway,

M. 

Doesn't it mean that if you transpose the players from left to right and vice versa that the right-handed players are playing left-handed (and vice versa), as in a flipped photo? Or maybe they are facing the wrong way?

i did this with my 300 when it first arrived, luckily i also watch TV through the system so when some guy in a film ( left of screen) started shouting and his voice came out of the right speaker i had a doh! moment  much head scratching and eventually - why the hell have they done that!

Nagual posted:

i did this with my 300 when it first arrived, luckily i also watch TV through the system so when some guy in a film ( left of screen) started shouting and his voice came out of the right speaker i had a doh! moment  much head scratching and eventually - why the hell have they done that!

I have my TV through my 282 but didn't notice anything was awry, possibly because my mind or my ears were playing tricks, a bit like getting used to varifocal glasses. As a side note, I recently got a Hydra cable to power the hi-fi and deployed the Russ Andrews XBlock I had been using to power the TV and Playstation and boy, what a massive difference to the picture that made!

Jonners - I also plugged my speakers into the nearest plug sockets 14 years ago - got my Naim system in 2004. I also made a policy decision never to waste time reading HiFi mags and sites as there are more important things to do. It's only when I just joined this forum recently that I read someone saying that Jimmy Page always played stage left - so should come out of the right speaker that I twigged it and swtiched my cables. The good thing is I didn't get obessed with HiFi - the bad thing is I would have ended up developing a very good system years ago when I had more money and no children.

This is off topic but I also seem to remember you saying that a child stuck their finger into your woofer cone and that you sucked out the dent with a vacuum cleaner. was that you and if so is there any risk of ripping the whole cone out - as I need to do this too. Some one told me to do it with a kitchen roll cardboard tube instead?

Also, to your note above - should I get a Hydra cable to power the hi-fi a Russ Andrews XBlock (or similar posh multiplug socket) to clear up the nest of cables behind my hifi/tv setup? Would this maybe help me get better sound and picture??

JimDog posted:

This is off topic but I also seem to remember you saying that a child stuck their finger into your woofer cone and that you sucked out the dent with a vacuum cleaner. was that you and if so is there any risk of ripping the whole cone out - as I need to do this too. Some one told me to do it with a kitchen roll cardboard tube instead?

If using a vacuum cleaner great care may be needed especially with a powerful one (e.g. bleeding air to reduce suction. I have done it for someone with pushed in tweeter domes, by mouth not vac cleaner. You need a tube with a diameter such that it will fit the rim of the dome (if a tweeter, not including the flexible surround). Cardboard, plastic - anything will do, but it wants a nice clean straight cut. Then hold gently against the dome and apply suction. With 3/4 inch tweeter domes I used a bit of off cut 19mm drain pipe, and it was quite easy. 

That said, it is quite common for woofer central domes to be porous, when suction may have no effect.

JimDog posted:

Jonners - I also plugged my speakers into the nearest plug sockets 14 years ago - got my Naim system in 2004. I also made a policy decision never to waste time reading HiFi mags and sites as there are more important things to do. It's only when I just joined this forum recently that I read someone saying that Jimmy Page always played stage left - so should come out of the right speaker that I twigged it and swtiched my cables. The good thing is I didn't get obessed with HiFi - the bad thing is I would have ended up developing a very good system years ago when I had more money and no children.

This is off topic but I also seem to remember you saying that a child stuck their finger into your woofer cone and that you sucked out the dent with a vacuum cleaner. was that you and if so is there any risk of ripping the whole cone out - as I need to do this too. Some one told me to do it with a kitchen roll cardboard tube instead?

Also, to your note above - should I get a Hydra cable to power the hi-fi a Russ Andrews XBlock (or similar posh multiplug socket) to clear up the nest of cables behind my hifi/tv setup? Would this maybe help me get better sound and picture??

Well JimDog I'm glad I'm not the only one! Yes, my children and the children of friends were drawn like magnets to the soft dome tweeters on my Dynaudios. Fingers were inserted on many occasions! As Innocent Bystander has already advised, great care was/is needed. I used a Henry with the diffuse open and a sock over the end and approached the tweeter slowly and carefully until I got the optimum position for the suction to do it's thing. Maybe I got lucky but I never had an accident and I've done it countless times. There is a big risk of damage so perhaps the cardboard tube with your mouth taking the place of Henry is probably the best idea!

As for power, Naim kit is designed to be powered in a "star" configuration. I believe this is to ensure that each component can draw the power it needs on demand. What you'd get with a Hydra cable is a single plug to put in your wall socket and then several power leads which you'd plug into your individual Naim boxes, usually 4. If you do a search on the Forum you'll find lots of threads about this subject and where you can buy them. You will be able to potentially recoup some of your outlay by selling off the original Naim cables you'll no longer need on eBay. I did, they go for about £25-30 a pop.

I'd absolutely recommend getting some form of "clean" multi-way power solution for your TV, DVD or whatever else you have. Most of the multi-socket solutions on the market aimed at audiophile solutions today feature filtering and I reckon that's what will help with the TV picture. I originally bought the Russ Andrews XBlock for hi-fi use but it's a bit OTT for TV. I reckon something like the Olsen "Sounds Fantastic" 6-way block is cheap enough to experiment with IMHO. If it doesn't make that much of a different it'll certainly be a nice "cable tidy" solution for that snake's nest of wires! 

 

Clive B posted:

As a student I used to buy tickets for the seats behind the orchestra, which were significantly cheaper than those in front. Consequently I got quite used to hearing the violins on the right.

Did you by any chance study in the Kensington area? I did the orchestra stalls at the Proms for many years, first as a student and then for years after when employed. One important learning, never get the seats behind the timps for the Choral Symphony. A funny memory, in one impassioned performance Salonen (I think it was him) stabbed forward towards the cellos, and his baton arrowed past the violins, he conducted the rest of the piece barehanded.

I've seen Beethoven's Choral Symphony perhaps 10 times at the RAH from every part of the house except behind the stage. I never listen to it recorded for some reason. But Mozart's Requiem works a treat through the 272.

This thread prompted me to put on side 3 of Electric Ladyland this aferrnoon, loud, and soak up the stereo effects, the amazing Drums, keyboards - my 6 year old son danced around whacking things with drumsticks - a vortex of sound whirling 'clockwise' (seen from above) - and yet each cymbal and drum and instrument clear and present in 3D stereo space.

Rainy Day, Dream Away"3:42
11."1983... (A Merman I Should Turn to Be)[nb 6]"13:39
12."Moon, Turn the Tides...Gently Gently Away"
Innocent Bystander posted:
Suzy Wong posted:
Ardbeg10y posted:

How is it, violins on the right side of an orchestra?

OTOH “Made in Japan” would be the right way round!

It is.  ...if you are a member of the band!

Quite. Unfortunately my guitar skills are not up to Blackmore standards, I can’t sing, or play keyboards, or bass, and even Ringo is a better drummer .

So after 40 odd years of listening to MiJ the wrong way round (LP and CD), when I recently got around to ripping it, I swapped channels using Audacity.

So now it’s the right way round from my seat in the Free Trade Hall in 1973.....

..and it sounds really weird!

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