Qb needs dropping out of the window?

After having struggled with Qb and wifi since day 1 of its release, sometimes to great levels of reoccurring frustration, it is now becoming clear from this thread that the Qb has always been deficient in its Wifi capability. So what would be a solution? Take the entire house WiFi back to 802.11g? Give the Qb its own router? Ditch the Qb and replace it with a unit that can work well with 802.11n, etc, like all the other devices that have good connectivity in the same space in which the Qb continually fails to connect consistently?  Like others, our Qb is in the kitchen, and ethernet is out of the question.  I love the sound of the Qb and do not really want to give up on it but with regards to WiFi it is not fit for purpose in an everyday sense in current network set ups.  Is there any hope of a refit programme in which the WiFi technology could be updated? Or is it likely that the original model is about to be replaced by one with more current WiFi technology?

cycling66 posted:

After having struggled with Qb and wifi since day 1 of its release, sometimes to great levels of reoccurring frustration, it is now becoming clear from this thread that the Qb has always been deficient in its Wifi capability. So what would be a solution? Take the entire house WiFi back to 802.11g? Give the Qb its own router? Ditch the Qb and replace it with a unit that can work well with 802.11n, etc, like all the other devices that have good connectivity in the same space in which the Qb continually fails to connect consistently?  Like others, our Qb is in the kitchen, and ethernet is out of the question.  I love the sound of the Qb and do not really want to give up on it but with regards to WiFi it is not fit for purpose in an everyday sense in current network set ups.  Is there any hope of a refit programme in which the WiFi technology could be updated? Or is it likely that the original model is about to be replaced by one with more current WiFi technology?

Yes, it is frustrating, and it might have been better if Naim had just not added WiFi at all rather than adding the 802.11g modules. Fortunately, the new streamers now all have 802.11ac, and seem to be much better.

A cheap easy workaround solution would be a pick up a used Apple Airport Express, connect it wirelessly to your network, and run a short Ethernet cable from there to your Muso. This worked quite well for me with a Superuniti, which also ran 802.11g, and was also totally incapable of running over its own WiFi. Sure, there are other, fancier ways to network your house, but this might get you up and running for a very small outlay. 

Having said that, a long Ethernet cable is even cheaper! Or wait for Muso 2, which will probably work.

Fascinating read this has been.....The end user just wants to play music wirelessly, its as simple as that! Wrong there are so many variables to this you could spend time and money sorting it out. I have a Muso, QB and ND5 streamer all are wired with cat5 using powerline adapters. I have a rubbish Virgin 3 hub and downstairs a netgear unmanaged switch supplying numerous items such as the ND5, Oppo BluRay and AppleTV to name a few! Once in a blue moon I may get a switch issue but that's it.

Now some may say using your electricity cables effects the sound, but to my ears its sounds marvellous.

Steve

Thanks for the suggestions, Chrissu.  No ethernet in the kitchen allowed, or practicable without deep reworking. Elsewhere in the house a newer streamer works just fine via ethernet. I'm not sure about introducing an Airport Express, would it be free of introducing interference into the network which might get to the newer streamer? Interesting to note that we also now have another thread just begun highlighting a more general frustration with Naim Wifi issues. There's a lot of frustration out there. Qb 2 with better WiFi would interest me, Qb 1 could be traded in or passed on and perhaps be used wired elsewhere.

 

wenger2015 posted:

All back working yesterday, just got back from work now and usual message has appeared !!!!   

Two things I would try.

1) pull down the rooms screen and let go. That makes it look for rooms again and not just st the ip addresses they were at before.

2) swipe the app off and then restart the app. That also makes it look for rooms again too.

best

David

Guinnless posted:

Your earlier post clearly shows you connected to a Hub 6.  Both the Control Pad and Qb need to be connected to the 2.4 Ghz band.

If your Control Pad  is connected to 5Ghz then that could be your problem

Unless you have split the bands the Home Hub will assign you to the one it thinks is best for you. I run split bands.

http://bt.custhelp.com/app/ans...s-network-name%29%3F

Yes, it’s hub 6..... slip of the finger.... apologies 

David Hendon posted:
wenger2015 posted:

All back working yesterday, just got back from work now and usual message has appeared !!!!   

Two things I would try.

1) pull down the rooms screen and let go. That makes it look for rooms again and not just st the ip addresses they were at before.

2) swipe the app off and then restart the app. That also makes it look for rooms again too.

best

David

Will give it a try..

Guinnless posted:

Your earlier post clearly shows you connected to a Hub 6.  Both the Control Pad and Qb need to be connected to the 2.4 Ghz band.

If your Control Pad  is connected to 5Ghz then that could be your problem

Unless you have split the bands the Home Hub will assign you to the one it thinks is best for you. I run split bands.

http://bt.custhelp.com/app/ans...s-network-name%29%3F

This shouldn’t be an issue actually. I have my Qb on a 2.4 GHz WiFi from my VM Superhub and my iPhone/iPad is never connected to that WiFi. Sometimes they use 5 GHz from the same Superhub and sometimes they use 2.4 or 5 GHz WiFi with a different SSID from an Apple extreme that is wired back to the Superhub. It makes no difference and it works fine most of the time.

best

David

cycling66 posted:

After having struggled with Qb and wifi since day 1 of its release, sometimes to great levels of reoccurring frustration, it is now becoming clear from this thread that the Qb has always been deficient in its Wifi capability. So what would be a solution? Take the entire house WiFi back to 802.11g? Give the Qb its own router? Ditch the Qb and replace it with a unit that can work well with 802.11n, etc, like all the other devices that have good connectivity in the same space in which the Qb continually fails to connect consistently?  Like others, our Qb is in the kitchen, and ethernet is out of the question.  I love the sound of the Qb and do not really want to give up on it but with regards to WiFi it is not fit for purpose in an everyday sense in current network set ups.  Is there any hope of a refit programme in which the WiFi technology could be updated? Or is it likely that the original model is about to be replaced by one with more current WiFi technology?

Further information on my Qb set up.

First, I agree with what others are saying, that the Qb should just be there and ready to play when I tune in. Any other device used in the kitchen finds the WiFi network it has been previously connected to without error, time and time again. The Qb when it is switched on does not. It sits pulsing and not connecting to radio. Power off at the socket, wait a few seconds, turn on again, circling lights, pulsing, and then the radio kicks in.  But then when you switch off and return later you are back at the beginning of the cycle, pulsing lights, no audio.  If I want to be assured of catching the news, for instance, best bet is to join iPlayer on the laptop, etc, and airplay to Qb. It works that way. It works through room sharing from the other streamer upstairs, two floors away.  We have a VM SH3 but with WiFi turned off. WiFi being supplied via Orbi router and satellites. I have had a satellite a room away, I have had one a foot  away, I have wired a satellite to the Qb. None of these options is reliable without switching off at socket.  I don't find turning off one WiFi band an acceptable solution. A user should not have to do that to have a Qb function. I will say, once it is playing audio, it is fine, no dropouts. It will even play high resolution audio.

 

wenger2015 posted:

I’m using BT Homehub 5 ??

Qb is about 12ft away from Router...

Is there a cordless phone base anywhere close to your router or your QB?
Is your router tucked away behind the TV or other large metal object?
Is there a table lamp (or other) using compact fluorescent bulbs close to the router or QB?
Is the QB adjacent to a microwave oven or other large metal object which might be blocking the wifi signal.

All of the above can have a significant and bad affect on wifi signal.

My kitchen QB is approximately 30 feet from the router, semi-open plan but partly obscured by a steel-reinforced-concrete wall which no doubt is blocking some signal.
My router reports the QB signal is currently receiving at -56dbm and the signal rate 54mbps. In terms of signal "number of bars" it's showing 3 out of 4.
If you log in to your router, does the BT HomeHub 6 report such things?

blythe posted:
wenger2015 posted:

I’m using BT Homehub 5 ??

Qb is about 12ft away from Router...

Is there a cordless phone base anywhere close to your router or your QB?
Is your router tucked away behind the TV or other large metal object?
Is there a table lamp (or other) using compact fluorescent bulbs close to the router or QB?
Is the QB adjacent to a microwave oven or other large metal object which might be blocking the wifi signal.

All of the above can have a significant and bad affect on wifi signal.

My kitchen QB is approximately 30 feet from the router, semi-open plan but partly obscured by a steel-reinforced-concrete wall which no doubt is blocking some signal.
My router reports the QB signal is currently receiving at -56dbm and the signal rate 54mbps. In terms of signal "number of bars" it's showing 3 out of 4.
If you log in to your router, does the BT HomeHub 6 report such things?

Yes, too the first 2 questions ..

Unfortunately both difficult to re-locate...

I have come to the conclusion the only way forward is to hard wire.

wenger2015 posted:

Any recommendations for an outdoor Ethernet cable?

Need about 10 mtrs? 

 

Any CAT6 cable, if you're able to terminate it yourself, otherwise just go for a decent quality ready made ethernet cable.
An audiophile cable will not make any difference nor is it necessary for a Muso QB.
(Arguably it wouldn't make any difference to any other audio equipment either).
If it will be truly running outdoors, run it through a conduit of some description to protect it from accidents, weather, sun degredation etc.

If it is reasonably well protected anyway then you don’t need to bother with a conduit or even to use outdoor cable. I have had a cable running along an outside wall down the side of the house,where there is no reason for people to go and it’s well screened from direct sunlight, for several years. It’s just tacked in place with normal cable clips. But you can buy a  terminated length of outdoor Ethernet cable on eBay for nearly nothing if you prefer.

best

David

wenger2015 posted:

Any recommendations for an outdoor Ethernet cable?

Need about 10 mtrs? 

Hi yes, for Ethernet external when attached to a wall you need a cable with PE (polyethylene) outer insulation.. you typically see external grade Ethernet cable as PE or HDPE (high density PE) for such applications. It’s readily available from regular IT wholesalers/merchants/retailers and IT cable providers for precisely this use. The PE provides the necessary moisture protection that can otherwise degrade the cable over a few years causing transmission errors or in extreme cases  failure ... certainly required for British climates.

If running on the ground or more exposed locations then you can use armoured Ethernet cable, again readily available, but more expensive, and possibly not required for your need here

I would consider using armoured cable if there’s any chance of damage from passing people/rodents etc. or run it in conduit. The steel reinforcement will make it a bit more awkward to work with though. Otherwise, regular exterior grade would do  

Also, as the cable will presumably run through your walls at each end, UK building regs require you to use a ‘low smoke’ cable (usually labelled LSZH, LSOH or similar). 

Is the extender connecting to your ISP modem, or to a separate router eg airport extreme that sets up your wifi?

i had this and due to double NAT problem, ie two devices given a ip adress range, it exactly impacted radio and external streaming. 

I now setup my wifi router in bridge mode to my isp modem and all works flawlessly also w wifi (we too have oak floors so no cable option)

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

I have a new Qb, and I have been streaming wirelessly lossless, and sending Qobuz via AirPlay and yet to hear a glitch or a stutter... works wonderfully and sounds rather good as well.

Use Ethernet connected cooperating Wifi access points. 

That’s good to hear.. they are impressive boxes when they work 

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Indeed, certainly sound better when you are further away.. up very close they sound a bit heavy.. further away they become surprisingly balanced...

I find that making sure the loudness is off and the room proximity set to “close to wall” and then ensuring the Qb isn’t close to a wall sorts out the heavy sound.

best

David

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