Qobuz non native what am I missing

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

No, I just set up BubbleSoft on a RPI, and it becomes its own UPnP media server pusher... very simple. Tidal and Qobuz is standard functionality .. just need to end your username and password. Dynamic and stored playlist are held on BubbleSoft server.  On the BubbleUPnP Server portal, under music renderers, you allow your streamer to be discovered as an OpenHome (UPnP Linn extensions) renderer... voila, jobs a good’en..

 

Simon, can you clarify a couple of things:

1 - if using the RPI headless which VNC clients/server do you use?  Just installed Raspbian afresh and enabled the supplied VNC server under Preferences>Raspberry Pi Configuration - for a Mac using the standard Screen Sharing app I need to use this with VNC authentication rather than Unix password

2 - For BubbleUPnP, do you install the Debian package or use the 'Other Java platforms' option?- I think before I installed Debian version in a RPi VM and couldn't get it to work.

3 - Can you explain why ssh seems disabled despite enabling in Preferences>Raspberry Pi Configuration?

Thanks in advance.

Alley Cat posted:
Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

No, I just set up BubbleSoft on a RPI, and it becomes its own UPnP media server pusher... very simple. Tidal and Qobuz is standard functionality .. just need to end your username and password. Dynamic and stored playlist are held on BubbleSoft server.  On the BubbleUPnP Server portal, under music renderers, you allow your streamer to be discovered as an OpenHome (UPnP Linn extensions) renderer... voila, jobs a good’en..

 

Simon, can you clarify a couple of things:

1 - if using the RPI headless which VNC clients/server do you use?  Just installed Raspbian afresh and enabled the supplied VNC server under Preferences>Raspberry Pi Configuration - for a Mac using the standard Screen Sharing app I need to use this with VNC authentication rather than Unix password

2 - For BubbleUPnP, do you install the Debian package or use the 'Other Java platforms' option?- I think before I installed Debian version in a RPi VM and couldn't get it to work.

3 - Can you explain why ssh seems disabled despite enabling in Preferences>Raspberry Pi Configuration?

Thanks in advance.

To enable ssh, you need to create a file (an empty one is enough) named 'ssh' in the boot partition of the micro SD card, just google "Raspbian Stretch Headless Setup Procedure" for detailed instructions. Similarly, you have to create a 'wpa_supplicant.conf ' in the same partition (this time the file has to contain your ESSID and password) to setup the RPi wireless interface for remote access.

This is the standard way of setin up a RPi for remote wireless ssh access. You do not need VNC or any other remote access software. My Raspbian installation consists of 520 packages, included upmpdcli and upmpdcli-qobuz. On the RPi that runs MinimServer and upmpdcli, I have shut down a number of services, among others bluetooth and HDMI. Here are details of my  '/boot/config.txt' file:

# Disable audio (does not load snd_bcm2835)
dtparam=audio=off

# Disable bluetooth
dtoverlay=pi3-disable-bt

# CPU and memory settings
arm_freq=1000
force_turbo=1
gpu_mem=16

And these are the lines that you need to add to '/etc/rc.local' to disble HDMI:

# disable HDMI
sudo /opt/vc/bin/tvservice --off

Alley Cat posted:

Simon, can you clarify a couple of things:

1 - if using the RPI headless which VNC clients/server do you use?  Just installed Raspbian afresh and enabled the supplied VNC server under Preferences>Raspberry Pi Configuration - for a Mac using the standard Screen Sharing app I need to use this with VNC authentication rather than Unix password

2 - For BubbleUPnP, do you install the Debian package or use the 'Other Java platforms' option?- I think before I installed Debian version in a RPi VM and couldn't get it to work.

3 - Can you explain why ssh seems disabled despite enabling in Preferences>Raspberry Pi Configuration?

1. I simply use telnet and / or SSH interface into my Pi’s... so on OSX I simply ssh in from the command line console. On my iPad I use Mocha Telnet. I don’t use VNC desktop sharing or any other such complication as it is not necessary and is cumbersome.

2. I used the Debian package when I first set up after having complied, linked and installed LAME and ffmpeg. However I see there is a bundled set of libraries now called Optware-ng which appears a lot simpler .. I would try that now.

3. I have no idea if you have correctly enabled ssh ( which typical in a so called ‘headless’ install).. above post has some good advice....  but being Unix there could be 101 causes.. Google is your friend.  It’s also worth trying a different client..  you can try Telnet instead of ssh if you prefer as it’s only your home lan .. that is simpler.. again use your favourite search engine to find helpful web resources.

nbpf posted:
Alley Cat posted:
Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

No, I just set up BubbleSoft on a RPI, and it becomes its own UPnP media server pusher... very simple. Tidal and Qobuz is standard functionality .. just need to end your username and password. Dynamic and stored playlist are held on BubbleSoft server.  On the BubbleUPnP Server portal, under music renderers, you allow your streamer to be discovered as an OpenHome (UPnP Linn extensions) renderer... voila, jobs a good’en..

 

Simon, can you clarify a couple of things:

1 - if using the RPI headless which VNC clients/server do you use?  Just installed Raspbian afresh and enabled the supplied VNC server under Preferences>Raspberry Pi Configuration - for a Mac using the standard Screen Sharing app I need to use this with VNC authentication rather than Unix password

2 - For BubbleUPnP, do you install the Debian package or use the 'Other Java platforms' option?- I think before I installed Debian version in a RPi VM and couldn't get it to work.

3 - Can you explain why ssh seems disabled despite enabling in Preferences>Raspberry Pi Configuration?

Thanks in advance.

To enable ssh, you need to create a file (an empty one is enough) named 'ssh' in the boot partition of the micro SD card, just google "Raspbian Stretch Headless Setup Procedure" for detailed instructions. Similarly, you have to create a 'wpa_supplicant.conf ' in the same partition (this time the file has to contain your ESSID and password) to setup the RPi wireless interface for remote access.

This is the standard way of setin up a RPi for remote wireless ssh access. You do not need VNC or any other remote access software. My Raspbian installation consists of 520 packages, included upmpdcli and upmpdcli-qobuz. On the RPi that runs MinimServer and upmpdcli, I have shut down a number of services, among others bluetooth and HDMI. Here are details of my  '/boot/config.txt' file:

# Disable audio (does not load snd_bcm2835)
dtparam=audio=off

# Disable bluetooth
dtoverlay=pi3-disable-bt

# CPU and memory settings
arm_freq=1000
force_turbo=1
gpu_mem=16

And these are the lines that you need to add to '/etc/rc.local' to disble HDMI:

# disable HDMI
sudo /opt/vc/bin/tvservice --off

Thanks for the tips on disabling services.

I installed Raspbian Stretch via NOOBS which interestingly allowed easy wi-fi configuration (via NOOBS wi-fi tab prior to package installation).

I've got screen sharing working via VNC, but am failing to enable SSH.  I have SSH enabled in the Preferences.

Created an empty ssh file in /boot by opening terminal there and using:

sudo touch ssh

I can see this file was created in /boot using file manager over VNC.  It disappears after reboot which is expected?

Tried multiple times to connect via SSH and failed but just managed it after changing the password and hostname a few times, weird.

Maybe setting up from NOOBS is not the best idea, but it does simplify the wi-fi step - I'd quite like to explore the pi a bit more before dedicating one to headless mode running Stretch Lite.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:
Alley Cat posted:

Simon, can you clarify a couple of things:

1 - if using the RPI headless which VNC clients/server do you use?  Just installed Raspbian afresh and enabled the supplied VNC server under Preferences>Raspberry Pi Configuration - for a Mac using the standard Screen Sharing app I need to use this with VNC authentication rather than Unix password

2 - For BubbleUPnP, do you install the Debian package or use the 'Other Java platforms' option?- I think before I installed Debian version in a RPi VM and couldn't get it to work.

3 - Can you explain why ssh seems disabled despite enabling in Preferences>Raspberry Pi Configuration?

1. I simply use telnet and / or SSH interface into my Pi’s... so on OSX I simply ssh in from the command line console. On my iPad I use Mocha Telnet. I don’t use VNC desktop sharing or any other such complication as it is not necessary and is cumbersome.

2. I used the Debian package when I first set up after having complied, linked and installed LAME and ffmpeg. However I see there is a bundled set of libraries now called Optware-ng which appears a lot simpler .. I would try that now.

3. I have no idea if you have correctly enabled ssh ( which typical in a so called ‘headless’ install).. above post has some good advice....  but being Unix there could be 101 causes.. Google is your friend.  It’s also worth trying a different client..  you can try Telnet instead of ssh if you prefer as it’s only your home lan .. that is simpler.. again use your favourite search engine to find helpful web resources.

Lots of useful advice both here and on the web.

There are also many different options for proxies/controllers it would seem.

Are you using Lumin as the controller app for Qobuz or something else?

Gapless again does not seem possible via Bubble using Nova or NDX 2.

 

Still not convinced Qobuz hires streams are better. I just played an album via the BubbleUpnp method  to my Atom. It's one I already own and actually bought  from them and it's 44.1/24 master so I am familiar with how it sounds.

The internet stream sounded vastly different and thin than what I know it to sound like and the highs are harsh and shrill. So I stopped and played my version again via BubbleUpnp for consistency from minimserver. It sounded as I remembered it. I switched back to the internet stream. Still the same it  sounds off it has the same issues I mentioned earlier in the thread about hires. I also decided to play the same file via Roon and this sounded like BubbleUpnp and minimerver.

I am not transcoding in any of these paths so what could account for such a difference? Both BubbleUpnp  and Minimserver are on my QNAP, Roons on a completely different server with local attached music. So this makes no sense to me as to why they would be different. I never get this with Tidal.

SimonPeterArnold posted:

Still not convinced Qobuz hires streams are better. I just played an album via the BubbleUpnp method  to my Atom. It's one I already own and actually bought  from them and it's 44.1/24 master so I am familiar with how it sounds.

The internet stream sounded vastly different and thin than what I know it to sound like and the highs are harsh and shrill. So I stopped and played my version again via BubbleUpnp for consistency from minimserver. It sounded as I remembered it. I switched back to the internet stream. Still the same it  sounds off it has the same issues I mentioned earlier in the thread about hires. I also decided to play the same file via Roon and this sounded like BubbleUpnp and minimerver.

I am not transcoding in any of these paths so what could account for such a difference? Both BubbleUpnp  and Minimserver are on my QNAP, Roons on a completely different server with local attached music. So this makes no sense to me as to why they would be different. I never get this with Tidal.

I am now pretty convinced SQ is better for me using Nova withBubbleUPNP . Could be Emperor's new clothes I guess but I did do a little bit of blind testing . I am also transcoding FLAC to WAV: at the moment cannot see any SQ effect but might be my ageing cloth ears and not really listened in earnest yet.

I felt SQ was better straight off with BUbbleUPNP method. So, from my point of view,  gain from transcoding looks more marginal.

SimonPeterArnold posted:

Still not convinced Qobuz hires streams are better. I just played an album via the BubbleUpnp method  to my Atom. It's one I already own and actually bought  from them and it's 44.1/24 master so I am familiar with how it sounds.

The internet stream sounded vastly different and thin than what I know it to sound like and the highs are harsh and shrill. So I stopped and played my version again via BubbleUpnp for consistency from minimserver. It sounded as I remembered it. I switched back to the internet stream. Still the same it  sounds off it has the same issues I mentioned earlier in the thread about hires. I also decided to play the same file via Roon and this sounded like BubbleUpnp and minimerver.

I am not transcoding in any of these paths so what could account for such a difference? Both BubbleUpnp  and Minimserver are on my QNAP, Roons on a completely different server with local attached music. So this makes no sense to me as to why they would be different. I never get this with Tidal.

I've also been doing some testing with BubbleUPnP server.  It worked fine on my main desktop PC so I installed it on my QNAP TS128A and sound quality dropped (very badly).  It could be becuase my 'little' QNAP was running low on memory as the swap space was being utilised which is never a good thing.  I uninstalled BubbleUPnP and the JRE, bounced the QNAP and all was back to normal.

Also BubbleUPnP as a client only (connecting direct to Qobuz) on my Lenovo Android without the server-side also sounded terrible. Don't do it!

I've now put BubbleUPnP on an old Windows laptop (until my Raspberry Pi arrives) and sound quality is the same as it was on my desktop. Tidal and Asset are now noticably better sound quality.  I've not done any back-to-back with Qobuz yet but I have listened to a few hires albums and it's all good. 

If your QNAP is a higher spec one say (2- 4G) then it may be OK. I'd have been happy with it running on the one box but when I found the SQ dropped off and all of the TS128s 1G of memory was gone then it plainly wasn't going to work.  Asset can stay on my QNAP as it can run that with loads of resource to spare.

SimonPeterArnold posted:

Mines already maxed out at 8gb. It's always got half left to and I am running a number of other services, minimerver, Plex, docker and a VM and it's smooth as silk. Bubble seems to be just a bit rubbish. 

I’m no IT expert but it seems to me that the issue here may be the level of usage of the NAS. I use a very small 1 bay QNAP NAS for BuubleUPNP but the only thing it is used for otherwise is as back up to my Unitiserve and nothing else, I do have Minimserver as a reserve if I need it but it has never been used.

in my experience BubbleUPNP with LUMIN sounds superb and I struggle to tell the difference between streamed  Qobuz Hi-Res when compared with downloads I own. It is certainly not a bit rubbish unlike Chromecast which I find to be awful.

SimonPeterArnold posted:

Mines already maxed out at 8gb. It's always got half left to and I am running a number of other services, minimerver, Plex, docker and a VM and it's smooth as silk. Bubble seems to be just a bit rubbish. 

Nope not 'just a bit rubbish' for me. Bubble UPNP server BubbleDS / Minim server working very nicely with Synology218Play.

My findings so far (along with my missus) are that Tidal via Bubble (transcoding to WAV as I prefer WAV) is pretty much exactly the same as ripped CDs. It's noticeably better that straight Tidal through the Naim App.   This is good news and has been well worth the effort.

Qobuz so far I've found has been a bit of a disappointment despite my expectations being high - I'm on Studio Trial - so have been able to sample some Hires material but overall it sounds a bit "thin" and uninvolving; detailed though.  I've just moved Bubble from where it was running on an old Windows 10 laptop to a RasPi3+ with the latest ffmpeg installed so I'll have another listen over the next few days.

Guinnless posted:

My findings so far (along with my missus) are that Tidal via Bubble (transcoding to WAV as I prefer WAV) is pretty much exactly the same as ripped CDs. It's noticeably better that straight Tidal through the Naim App.   This is good news and has been well worth the effort.

Pretty much my experience too with Qobuz - though with Tidal I did seem to run into bad masters - almost if they had been poorly normalised - not had this once with Qobuz. I have let my Tidal subscription go now

 

Well I gave transcoding Qobuz a try. I used ffmpeg thing from

https://www.reddit.com/r/synol...g_for_ds218play_dts/. I have Synology DS218 Play NAS.

Might be a coincidence but soon after BubbleUPNP failed lost all settings - I could not set to transcoe on any case. Uninstalled ffmpeg and it came back.

Also had problems playing anything inc radio from any app this afternoon.

Funny business this wireless stuff. I think I will leave well alone now.

 

 

 

Boris786 posted:

Well I gave transcoding Qobuz a try. I used ffmpeg thing from

https://www.reddit.com/r/synol...g_for_ds218play_dts/. I have Synology DS218 Play NAS.

Might be a coincidence but soon after BubbleUPNP failed lost all settings - I could not set to transcoe on any case. Uninstalled ffmpeg and it came back.

Also had problems playing anything inc radio from any app this afternoon.

Funny business this wireless stuff. I think I will leave well alone now.

Well your NAS should have the capacity to run it all that mine (QNAP TS128A) didn't hence for testing purposes I resorted to an old Windows laptop; this gave really promising results and I bought a Raspberry Pi to run Bubble on.  My QNAP retains Asset duties and the RasPi is like my "uplift" server.  As per my previous post I found Tidal via Bubble is now pretty much CD quality.

Guinnless posted:
Boris786 posted:

Well I gave transcoding Qobuz a try. I used ffmpeg thing from

https://www.reddit.com/r/synol...g_for_ds218play_dts/. I have Synology DS218 Play NAS.

Might be a coincidence but soon after BubbleUPNP failed lost all settings - I could not set to transcoe on any case. Uninstalled ffmpeg and it came back.

Also had problems playing anything inc radio from any app this afternoon.

Funny business this wireless stuff. I think I will leave well alone now.

Well your NAS should have the capacity to run it all that mine (QNAP TS128A) didn't hence for testing purposes I resorted to an old Windows laptop; this gave really promising results and I bought a Raspberry Pi to run Bubble on.  My QNAP retains Asset duties and the RasPi is like my "uplift" server.  As per my previous post I found Tidal via Bubble is now pretty much CD quality.

I do not think it is a capacity issue with my NAS rather that the processor (ARM8) is not 'supported' by ffmpeg.

I think the issue with BubbleUPNP might not have been to do with ffmpeg. I do not know what was/is going on with my Nova. At one point yesterday it was not responding to RC commands.

With programmes like ffmpeg.. it’s not a case of ‘supporting’ processors, one normally needs, and especially with Unix,  to compile and link the code (which is how software works for specific processors and OS) so as to create the application (there are resources on the web for this for beginners). You will need the compiling tools and base libraries for your NAS Operating System if nobody has done this already. BubbleSoft needs a comprehensive and uptodate version of ffmpeg, so I simply compiled and linked a new version of it on my RaspberryPi.... a pre linked  downloaded version I had used previously for MinimStreamer did not work.. Oh yes ensure you have a LAME installed before you link the ffmpeg libraries.. this seems to be a prerequisite even though you are unlikely to use it.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

With programmes like ffmpeg.. it’s not a case of ‘supporting’ processors, one normally needs, and especially with Unix,  to compile and link the code (which is how software works for specific processors and OS) so as to create the application (there are resources on the web for this for beginners). You will need the compiling tools and base libraries for your NAS Operating System if nobody has done this already. BubbleSoft needs a comprehensive version of ffmpeg, so I simply compiled and linked a new version of it on my RaspberryPi.... a version I had used previously for MinimStreamer was not suitable. Oh yes ensure you have a LAME installed before you link the ffmpeg libraries.. this seems to be a prerequisite even though you are unlikely to use it.

Thanks simon. Yes what I meant is there is not a comprehensive version of ffmpeg for Bubblesoft for my NAS. I am not embarking on buidling this at present at least until my Nova has settled down. I also have an understanding issue around the fact that reddiit focuses on the processor issue alone - this suggests I might not have sufficient grasp of this to proceed. One for later and maybe a PM rather than a forum discussion. I will be having an enforced and lengthy break from work in a few weeks which mght be a good time to have a look at this.

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