s400 sound

longmanjon posted:
Hungryhalibut posted:

Just make sure you are not throwing money at the problem when it may be the case that you simply don't like the speakers. 

no im certainly not trying to do that, just adding extra discussions to the thread.

I actually do like the speakers and am gradually getting used to the difference of sound, I have the 200 arriving this week with some naca5 so will give that a trial to see how this changes things, I shall then see if I really need to change the source at all.

Wow, a complete change of system, possibly?! Was that on the cards when you bought the S400s, or simply that you feel you're on track for something wonderful compared tomyour old system?

longmanjon posted:

just the slippery slope I think, we shall see how each step pans out, but the s400' were something I have wanted for a long time so when a cheap pair came up I thought what the hell

Same here. I've bought a pair 600's without even listening to them.

Ovators - regardless the model - have some aspects which are very important for me: they look absolutely fabulous, they have large metal grills (I have 4 kids running around) and 64 kg cannot be pushed over even by my oldest kid and wife together.

On this forum we tend to focus on how things sound, but that is only one aspect. No hifi can beat my Piano though.

Ardbeg10y posted:
longmanjon posted:

just the slippery slope I think, we shall see how each step pans out, but the s400' were something I have wanted for a long time so when a cheap pair came up I thought what the hell

Same here. I've bought a pair 600's without even listening to them.

Ovators - regardless the model - have some aspects which are very important for me: they look absolutely fabulous, they have large metal grills (I have 4 kids running around) and 64 kg cannot be pushed over even by my oldest kid and wife together.

On this forum we tend to focus on how things sound, but that is only one aspect. No hifi can beat my Piano though.

Surely not, how can a silly old piano sound anywhere near as good as a hifi costing thousands of pounds....joking

longmanjon posted:

Which Speakers are you using with that setup Steve?

I also wonder would it be more beneficial to get a 250.2 with a 172 or a 272 with the 200, is the difference with the 172/272 that great to warrant the extra expense and are there newer products being lined which I should wait for instead of making the more expensive move to a 272 now?

I have S400s. Naca5. All very catholic. I think a 272/200 combo would be a better bet than a 172/250, regardless of the vintage of the 250. My aim is for a 272/250 with a power supply. The logical path for amplification for the S400s is in my opinion:-

172/200 - 272/200 -272/250 -272/PS/250 -NDS/PS/252/PS/250.

As for your initial query re the bass weight of the S400s, I think they're fine. Sure a better amp will give them more gravitas, but my motivation for climbing up thhe ladder is more to do with musical involvement.

But the system as it stands now is very good.  I am still enjoying it, and am addicted to both rediscovering my existing albums and aquiring new music.

 

"Oh! London Grammar, it's a quite nice record/recordings, the bass with 600s is quite seismic (Non Belivier track) 

Regards

Roberto"

My first introduction to the S400s was "Strong" by London Grammar. I have a 24/48 download from HDtracks. Seismic is an appropriate adjective.

I have also heard the Statement/S800 combo with this track. Seismic however is a bit lacking as a descriptor with this combo in control. More like a star quake leading to supernova.

London Grammar played Perth last Saturday. Sadly I didn't get to see them. Next time!

Great speakers the S400. I had them in a pretty large room and bass was very good, just not very deep (for my preferences & in my room/gear etc.) Punchy & very tight bass for sure and the PRaT was excellent with these. However I did think they were a bit too small in the room I have 5.5m x 8m x 2m - as in small sounding overall, not just in regards to bass.

In your size room I think you are in the sweet spot room size wise with these.

I’m handy with a soldering iron (100 watt in this instance) so ordered some Ovator plugs from Tom Tom Audio. I drilled a wooden block to hold the pins for soldering. Worked a treat. I then went to Super Lumina  - nice plugs but not the special Ovator ones. I then sold my S600s!

Ravenswood10 posted:

I’m handy with a soldering iron (100 watt in this instance) so ordered some Ovator plugs from Tom Tom Audio. I drilled a wooden block to hold the pins for soldering. Worked a treat. I then went to Super Lumina  - nice plugs but not the special Ovator ones. I then sold my S600s!

Sounds to me like you shouldn't have spent for the SuperLumina.

I thought I would provide and update after getting the 250/272 now set up and singing on the s400, I must say the transformation with the speakers is now fantastic. From what I remember of the superuniti this is absolutely better, the scale of music is fantastic but the overall definition of all ranges is such a pleasing benefit, and the soundstage is quite amazing also. It’s a real pleasure going through the library again and discovering new sounds.

a couple of questions, is it worth doing anything about the snaic cable, can’t afford a lumina, and is it worth getting powerlines.

one last thing, I do get a buzzing on the 250 occasionally, and wasn’t sure if it’s in need of a service or a connection is causing it, I have the switch on the 272 on chassis.

Moderated Post: Longmanjon, please note that discussion of 3rd party "SNAIC" substitutes is not allowed as these constitute an unauthorised modification to the equipment, the result of which will at best will not perform as Naim intended, and at worst may well result in damage to the equipment.

I would just spend some time with your latest upgrade before embarking on any further expenditure, so you have a good “ear” for changes when you do make changes. I recently added a power line to my 250dr, I thought the benefits were Ok for £300, but not for full price?

 

S-400 do like a decent power amp. 250DR is good, 300DR is even better with them.

But.... step-by-step.

I would recommend doing nothing for the next 6 months - just enjoy the current setup. Perhaps a power supply at a later stage... and some PowerLines. SuperLumina DIN-XLR + SL speaker cables will for a rather nice icing on an already good cake by that time.

LONGMANJON ,just had a quick look online and on some review blogs about your Nord power amp. It appears that they are unique in having the facility of swapping out and changing its op amps, with some describing what your original dislike about the speakers being cured by changing one to another.

Is this something that you are aware of ? Could be worth investigating before any major changes.

longmanjon posted:

Which Speakers are you using with that setup Steve?

I also wonder would it be more beneficial to get a 250.2 with a 172 or a 272 with the 200, is the difference with the 172/272 that great to warrant the extra expense and are there newer products being lined which I should wait for instead of making the more expensive move to a 272 now?

I’m pretty Catholic, have 172/200/S400/Naca5. The insertion of a 272 was pretty amazing. I suspect that the new streaming architecture of the Nova will make its way into the separates in time. I think a Nova has the edge over a 172/200 in terms of clarity, but not as much oomph, (the NAP200 wins here).

My two cents worth is a 272/200 would be better for me than a 172/250.2. But the path upwards is all good.

My room is 3.6m x 5.6m. I am lucky as there is no “back” wall, the listening space is family/kitchen/dining and totals 55 square metres. Listening space is totally symmetrical. Speakers on 3.6m wall, 400mm out and 2.1m apart. No toe in. Floating laminate floor but I spike through to concrete slab below. 

About the best sounding room I have ever had. Bass is fast and full. Had tri-amped Briks and the S400 are faster. I get to hear my old set up and I know where I am now.

London Grammar via a 24/48 file is awesome.

But a 272/XPS/250Dr is calling. So too is a Golf convertible.

Drewy posted:

I always say the S400s need decent amplification 250 upwards to get the best from them. My SU wasn't enough for them. I think that's much the reason for so much criticism for them. 

Try a 300dr on them if you dare. 

I dare not! A 272/250 is pretty good. The 300 would be great. But what about my convertible? 

 

"Interesting, as when I added a 200 to my Superuniti, I thought it gave it more clarity, and less oomph!"

I think the Nova is probably a better balanced amp than a 172/200 combo. I understand why they dropped the 172. My thought is that value in the Nova won out over the versatility of a 172/200.

An improved 172 with the option of using an external power supply seems a pretty logical future product.

The overlap of Nova, basic pre/power/streamer and streaming pre/power seems wasteful of manufacturing and marketing effort. More product rationalisation ahead?

 

I think I would have to agree that the 250.2 really added the grunt the s400 required, and the addition of the 272 was really the extra quality it needed in comparison to the auralic I had, that's not to say the auralic was not a decent machine but the 272 really is a bigger step up, and yes it is twice the price so this should be expected but never a guarantee.

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