SL DIN-xlr is go...

In a moment of euphoria, I’ve gone for a s/h Super Lumina DIN-xlr from my NAP 250.

This means SL for everything I can except NDX to Hugo (for which I use DC1).

While I wait for it to arrive, what sort of improvement do you think I can expect over the (excellent) Witch Hat which I currently have in place?

Original Post

The SL full loom seems to be bigger than the sum of its parts. How much of that is in the mind, I don't know, but as Huge suggests, there's certainly some satisfaction to the thought that the whole cable loom is the best that Naim can make, which should banish the niggle in the back of the mind about 'what If I?".

Just sit back and luxuriate in it, Nick   

Like you I completed my SL loom by exchanging my WH DIN/XLR for SL between my 252/SupercapDR and 250DR, so an identical change to yours. What did it bring? Do you know I can't remember but I know that listening to music now seems effortless. Music seems more complete and I don't feel the need to analyse or disect. That's it really. Certainly no night and day difference but difference there is (and for the better). Things just seem to gel. 

Is it all in the head? Who knows.

For me, adding the SL XLR cables really made a bid difference to the “bass”.  

It was a substantial investment, and it took some time to decide to make the plunge, but in my active set up, I think it is the SL part that had the biggest impact.

I never heard the bass player sound so pronounced (I listen to rock music mostly).  I just sat and listened to bass lines that I have never really noticed before.  I don’t mean to exaggerate, but you could almost imagine the bass player in the room.  It had less of an impact on the other instruments.

I haven’t heard others comment quite the same way, so it will be interesting to hear how you find them.

Well it’s admittedly early days, but two comments from the thread above ring true: first, SL full loom seems more than the sum of its parts; second, listening seems effortless.

I can tell when an upgrade has been worth it - I stay up late because of that ‘I wonder what <insert fave track> will sound like...’ feeling.

I think for me, what Superlumina brings to the table are 3 things

1) The realism of timbres, instruments and voices sound more real

2) The dynamic energy of the performance is preserved more than other cables

3) more extended bandwidth in terms of frequency extremes.

It may not be immediately apparent, but after 200 hours running in at least, you will hear it.

I tried din to xlr on NAP250dr from 272 ........ and I was underwhelmed ...... I gave it about 3 months .... I could not really tell much difference....maybe it needed more time......... I sold it when I changed the amp. Prior to changing the amps over ... I substituted with a 'witch-hat' .... and I was surprised how good that was.....very close in terms of performance. I was using SL speaker cable.

Richieroo posted:

I tried din to xlr on NAP250dr from 272 ........ and I was underwhelmed ...... I gave it about 3 months .... I could not really tell much difference....maybe it needed more time......... I sold it when I changed the amp. Prior to changing the amps over ... I substituted with a 'witch-hat' .... and I was surprised how good that was.....very close in terms of performance. I was using SL speaker cable.

I'll give it 5 minutes before Analog pops up to tell you you're wrong

There is of course no right or wrong, merely differences in perception. So as not to rain on Nick’s parade, for what it’s worth I found the SL din to XLR rather wonderful in combination with the speaker leads. 

I wonder sometimes about SL in systems such as Nick’s with the 252. Even with SL interconnect, din to XLR and speaker leads, the signal from the 252 to the Supercap is still going via the Burndy lead or Snaic, whichever it is that carries the signal. With the Statement this limitation doesn’t apply. Interestingly, it doesn’t apply with the 272 either, though of course that is the setup in which Richieroo found it underwhelming. 

Which takes us back to perception, I suppose. 

I too found the SL IC from 272 to 250, with NACA5, to be a nice improvement. I had mine on for a couple of months then I took it out and intended to not put it back in if I couldn't tell a difference. After a few albums it as though I was missing something. I put the SL IC back in and haven't touched it since. I'm still trying to convince myself to switch out the NACA5 for SL SC. No luck of that so far. 

Richieroo posted:

I found SL speaker cable excellent a real upgrade on NACA5 ...... especially if you have a DR amp.

Good to know. I do have a 250 DR I'm just struggling to convince myself to spend the cash. Seems silly at this point with the cash already spent.Guess I should just bite the bullet abd finish it off with SL SC. 

Never quite convinced myself the SL interconnect is worth its asking price. Gave it a go at one point and while there were subtle differences, they were nowhere near the price difference would have otherwise suggested. So purchased the WH hatpin and the Phantoms instead. From stock and NacA5 to these (272, 250DR)... yeah...the differences are well worth the investment (350quid)

On the other hand, there's to little source on my end for any SL, I'm pretty sure of that.

Richieroo posted:

I think in my case ..... maybe the cable needed more time - I have read elsewhere that they take an inordinate time to run in. The other thing is it could be my cloth ears!!! 

they take an annoying very  long time to run in. Until then one can wonder what the fuss is all about and why the price tag.

As Superlumina cables are multi-conductor cables (the speaker cable has 11 cores) - the separate cores don't all seem to run in at exactly the same pace as they are different diameters

So... some hundred hours (200 according to Naim HQ) amount of playing time is required.

 

 

analogmusic posted:

I think for me, what Superlumina brings to the table are 3 things

1) The realism of timbres, instruments and voices sound more real

2) The dynamic energy of the performance is preserved more than other cables

3) more extended bandwidth in terms of frequency extremes.

It may not be immediately apparent, but after 200 hours running in at least, you will hear it.

 You should update your profile to show you're a SL owner!

analogmusic posted:

I think for me, what Superlumina brings to the table are 3 things

1) The realism of timbres, instruments and voices sound more real

2) The dynamic energy of the performance is preserved more than other cables

3) more extended bandwidth in terms of frequency extremes.

It may not be immediately apparent, but after 200 hours running in at least, you will hear it.

So you’ve bought them at last! 

Dave J posted:
analogmusic posted:

I think for me, what Superlumina brings to the table are 3 things

1) The realism of timbres, instruments and voices sound more real

2) The dynamic energy of the performance is preserved more than other cables

3) more extended bandwidth in terms of frequency extremes.

It may not be immediately apparent, but after 200 hours running in at least, you will hear it.

So you’ve bought them at last! 

Finally!!!!!!!!!!!!!

nickpeacock posted:

While I wait for it to arrive, what sort of improvement do you think I can expect over the (excellent) Witch Hat which I currently have in place?

Put this way, it seems to me that you're asking forum members for the amount of quality increase you will hear; you have bought it, why not face the wait serenely, considering the possibility that you may also not like it? This way, you have first bought something you don't know, then asked people you don't know to tell you how and why you'll like it.

It's a mix of Hope and Faith. If Charity had something to do with all this (which hardly has, given the prices), it would be a practical application of the three Theological Virtues, once again proving to me the substantially religious nature of a Naim/Believer relation. I find this posts most interesting.

(While I wait for Death to arrive, what sort of improvement do you think I can expect over the (excellent) life in the flesh I am currently enjoying?)

Best wishes for your purchase,

M.

Max_B posted:
nickpeacock posted:

While I wait for it to arrive, what sort of improvement do you think I can expect over the (excellent) Witch Hat which I currently have in place?

Put this way, it seems to me that you're asking forum members for the amount of quality increase you will hear; you have bought it, why not face the wait serenely, considering the possibility that you may also not like it? This way, you have first bought something you don't know, then asked people you don't know to tell you how and why you'll like it.

It's a mix of Hope and Faith. If Charity had something to do with all this (which hardly has, given the prices), it would be a practical application of the three Theological Virtues, once again proving to me the substantially religious nature of a Naim/Believer relation. I find this posts most interesting.

(While I wait for Death to arrive, what sort of improvement do you think I can expect over the (excellent) life in the flesh I am currently enjoying?)

Best wishes for your purchase,

M.

Max I do not know you but your way with words is exceptional. I'm thinking you would be fun to have a beer or four with. 

Sorry for small thread diversion here. Do normal cable dressing rules apply to din-xlr ? 

Mine is connecting Supercap to 250.2 on bottom and second bottom level of Fraim so inevitably the 1m cable is resting on carpet, although I have managed to ensue it’s not touching any other cable.

Thanks

Do what is necessary to prevent it laying directly on the floor. On the floor it will have a 'harder' presentation with poorer low-level detail retrieval - off the floor it is more natural-sounding with better dynamics rendering and more detail, so it is worth doing.

If the soft 'loop' approach does not work, then place it on some firm foam as a compromise and listen too if it is better. Off the floor free is optimal, then firm foam spacers, then soft foam and last and least bubble-wrap are my preferences - other people will have different opinions. I find the softer spacers introduce smear to low-bass and dynamics generally.

This only applies to the interconnect cables, as the other Naim cables (speaker and Mains) are designed differently and include very lossy outer sheaths that seem to slug vibration inducted from the floor - although these also benefit from some care to minimise contact where possible, but are nowhere near as sensitive as the interconnects.

DB.

HH and Darke Bear - Thank you- I’ll work through the above and test, much appreciated. One more, hopefully easy question if I may, I wonder if moving the Supercap up a shelf would help, or would you say too close to NDX if I move it ?

Current Stacking order 

282

NDX

medium space empty

Supercap2

250.

HedgeBre posted:

HH and Darke Bear - Thank you- I’ll work through the above and test, much appreciated. One more, hopefully easy question if I may, I wonder if moving the Supercap up a shelf would help, or would you say too close to NDX if I move it ?

Current Stacking order 

282

NDX

medium space empty

Supercap2

250.

I'd try it one shelf up. The cable dressing will be a bit easier with more off floor and a gap between SC and and power Amp transformer works well. I always find the SC supply very fussy to being close to other big transformers that are 'busy'. You should find things sound more open with more space between SC and 250, but also the space reducing between SC and NDX will add some coarseness so it is a compromise - until you buy another empty level (medium). 

Experiment and decide - a few hours out of your life to decide what you prefer and also learn a few things. It is a puzzle that can be played with and effectively solved.

DB.

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