SSD = Solid State Drive, which is best..?

flammenwerfer posted:
Simon-in-Suffolk posted:
flammenwerfer posted:

Well Martin Colloms prefers HDD over SSD in his Uniti Core review.

Said it sounded more dynamic and tightly focussed.

Well Simon-in-Suffolk prefers it when the natural Humidity is  greater than approx > 75% when critically listening to his Naim 552 based system. He says the sound is more organic and natural compared to lower Humidity.. He hasn't  quite gone to the extent of getting a humidifier for his listening room yet - but I understand he is considering it. Any view from the forum on which Humidifiers create the best sound?

Who is Simon in Suffolk?

Martin Colloms is a well respected reviewer.

He just reported his findings and may have not been able to explain why.

Don’t kill the messenger.

 

if 4 unknown members have tested at home ssd vs hdd and say the same, i will more trust them than  one opinion of Martin Colloms,  Michael Fremer or well respected naim forum members .  And in absolute way, i will first and above anyone trust my ears.

Absolutely.. trust your own ears, and share your  own views and let others discuss and explore them with you... it’s what this community I feel is all about.

BTW I use SSD and balanced HDD with large buffers, as well as Hybrids (part SSD / part HDD) in my NAS and Macs and mini servers... I have not attributed any sq difference to disk technology, but I have to other aspects on network attached storage devices, and been able to measure differences that affect prefereable SQ ... I can’t definitely say there is cause and effect... but so far I have been able to  measure a correlation.

I have a two TD SanDisk harddrive in my core

I can get a samsung 1 TV  860 SSD for about £190 which I can accept if there is an improvement in sound quality ...I also expect a reduction in running noise also

I can manage space wise with 1 TB

Is it worth the £200 for the sound improvement??

Any thoughts pls

 

Japtimscarlet posted:

I have a two TD SanDisk harddrive in my core

I can get a samsung 1 TV  860 SSD for about £190 which I can accept if there is an improvement in sound quality ...I also expect a reduction in running noise also

I can manage space wise with 1 TB

Is it worth the £200 for the sound improvement??

Any thoughts pls

 

Sound improvement as value for money is very much a personal thing. Given what some people pay for what others may regard as quite marginal improvements (though they may describe as night and day, which to me means so absolutely different that an almost totally deaf person would still perceive the difference,, but the forum is somewhat prone to hyperbole), to some the answer would undoubtedly be a resounding yes, and not to others.

To me, when I set up my Mac Mini I had no thought as to any effect on sound quality, but SSDs just made sense to me in terms of reliability and silence.

Japtimscarlet posted:
Is it worth the £200 for the sound improvement??

Any thoughts pls

As IB states, its a very personal thing. For me I would say yes, it seems to make a difference in my system - the sound is more fluid and a tinge of hardness in the upper mids is removed when playing from SSD. However you may feel it makes no difference.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Absolutely.. trust your own ears, and share your  own views and let others discuss and explore them with you... it’s what this community I feel is all about.

Just right Simon,...agree,that's what the forum is for.!!

But it can be difficult for many to understand, or hear differences in test-occasions,unless you think about the details.....
Then it will be easy comments that... ◾ When will this madness end. ◾ 😏.

You have to be incredibly careful when testing,...The products must have exactly the same conditions.

◾ Stand in the same place,... listen to the first, remove it,and put the other in exactly the same place.
In other words,do not set them next to each other.There is always a difference in resonance frequencies in the substrate,which can affect the product to be tested.

◾ The same power-cable.
◾ The same Interconnect cable.
◾ The same ehternet cable.
◾ Think of cable-direction,easy to miss on the   ehternet cable.
◾ Cable-dressing,the cables in exactly the same place at each test.

◾ The contacts at all ends, should be drawn in and out 10 times before the first Test, and between each Test.
This is to remove any oxides.

◾ Check the electrical phase,... does not apply to you in England 😉.
◾ The same volume.
◾ The same music.
◾ Listen for the musical message,...not the sound.
◾ Tune-Method, in Sweden, for example, we use this covered test method.

◾ The products should have been electrically connected for as long.

These are a few points to consider, when evaluating two products against each other.

If I forgot something, please supplement.
And of course,...The music system must be 100 % optimized before the test time,..otherwise it will be harder to hear small differences.

/Peder 🙂

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Absolutely.. trust your own ears, and share your  own views and let others discuss and explore them with you... it’s what this community I feel is all about.

 

Exactly — but Flammenwerfer doesn’t get it I think. Instead he’s trying to live up to the name he gave himself — a bit silly I think. I noticed the editing of his posting — good... 

flammenwerfer posted:
Simon-in-Suffolk posted:
flammenwerfer posted:

Well Martin Colloms prefers HDD over SSD in his Uniti Core review.

Said it sounded more dynamic and tightly focussed.

Well Simon-in-Suffolk prefers it when the natural Humidity is  greater than approx > 75% when critically listening to his Naim 552 based system. He says the sound is more organic and natural compared to lower Humidity.. He hasn't  quite gone to the extent of getting a humidifier for his listening room yet - but I understand he is considering it. Any view from the forum on which Humidifiers create the best sound?

Who is Simon in Suffolk?

Martin Colloms is a well respected reviewer.

He just reported his findings and may have not been able to explain why.

Don’t kill the messenger.

 

MC is a reviewer, and unlike some othersquoted on the forum I have been aware of his writing o er a period of many years. Some people agree with his views, other do not. I don’t know how respected he may or may not be, but that has nothing to do with whether people agree with his views.  Simon-on-Suffolk is a forum member, well known to regular readers as someone who combines scientific understanding and assessment with subjective assessment, generally trying to fit the former to the latter in the intrests of greater understanding (my interpretation). Some people agree with his views, and I imagine others do not. I get the impression that he is generally well respected within this community, but that indeed does not mean you have to agree with him  - though as he tends to present reasoned arguments, if you disagree it would be appropriate to consider what aspect of his argument you find faulty.

Martin Colloms did not pick up on any of the problems we were having with the Core. At the time the forum was awash with reports of problems. I now have a new tarnished view of Hifi reporting.

That being said I am delighted with my Core, but have no Orchestral music.

Peder posted:
Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Absolutely.. trust your own ears, and share your  own views and let others discuss and explore them with you... it’s what this community I feel is all about.

Just right Simon,...agree,that's what the forum is for.!!

But it can be difficult for many to understand, or hear differences in test-occasions,unless you think about the details.....
Then it will be easy comments that... ◾ When will this madness end. ◾ 😏.

You have to be incredibly careful when testing,...The products must have exactly the same conditions.

◾ Stand in the same place,... listen to the first, remove it,and put the other in exactly the same place.
In other words,do not set them next to each other.There is always a difference in resonance frequencies in the substrate,which can affect the product to be tested.

◾ The same power-cable.
◾ The same Interconnect cable.
◾ The same ehternet cable.
◾ Think of cable-direction,easy to miss on the   ehternet cable.
◾ Cable-dressing,the cables in exactly the same place at each test.

◾ The contacts at all ends, should be drawn in and out 10 times before the first Test, and between each Test.
This is to remove any oxides.

◾ Check the electrical phase,... does not apply to you in England 😉.
◾ The same volume.
◾ The same music.
◾ Listen for the musical message,...not the sound.
◾ Tune-Method, in Sweden, for example, we use this covered test method.

◾ The products should have been electrically connected for as long.

These are a few points to consider, when evaluating two products against each other.

If I forgot something, please supplement.
And of course,...The music system must be 100 % optimized before the test time,..otherwise it will be harder to hear small differences.

/Peder 🙂

Sometimes if it takes that much effort to hear a difference, I do wonder it it is significant enough to be worth worrying about. Meanwhile the biggest problem I find is that all too often if the system is reasonably good I end up forgetting that am trying to compare, and simply end up being drawn into the music.

i had never heard of this ‘tune’ approach until just a few months ago - not sure if it was you or someone else whose description was the first description I’d read. I will have to try sometime, as I think it may help when comparing small refinements - but I don't think it would work with major character differences like choosing speakers: e.g for me, if a speaker didn’t do full or deep bass, it is a complete non-starter for me no matter how well it carries the tune.

if my music could fit on a 1 tera ssd ,because its likely to run cool/no noise and   last longer I would fit one.  MY HDDs have been running for at least 6 years without failure and cant be heard when playing music.   lets hope the cost of high capacity sdd falls .

Innocent Bystander posted:
flammenwerfer posted:
Simon-in-Suffolk posted:
flammenwerfer posted:

Well Martin Colloms prefers HDD over SSD in his Uniti Core review.

Said it sounded more dynamic and tightly focussed.

Well Simon-in-Suffolk prefers it when the natural Humidity is  greater than approx > 75% when critically listening to his Naim 552 based system. He says the sound is more organic and natural compared to lower Humidity.. He hasn't  quite gone to the extent of getting a humidifier for his listening room yet - but I understand he is considering it. Any view from the forum on which Humidifiers create the best sound?

Who is Simon in Suffolk?

Martin Colloms is a well respected reviewer.

He just reported his findings and may have not been able to explain why.

Don’t kill the messenger.

 

MC is a reviewer, and unlike some othersquoted on the forum I have been aware of his writing o er a period of many years. Some people agree with his views, other do not. I don’t know how respected he may or may not be, but that has nothing to do with whether people agree with his views.  Simon-on-Suffolk is a forum member, well known to regular readers as someone who combines scientific understanding and assessment with subjective assessment, generally trying to fit the former to the latter in the intrests of greater understanding (my interpretation). Some people agree with his views, and I imagine others do not. I get the impression that he is generally well respected within this community, but that indeed does not mean you have to agree with him  - though as he tends to present reasoned arguments, if you disagree it would be appropriate to consider what aspect of his argument you find faulty.

So far the Colloms review of the Naim Core is the most comprehensive one out there.

Most people, myself included, found it hard to believe that MC prefers HDD over SSD in this application.

It would be good to discuss why this may be so rather than just ridicule it offhand as some are wont to do.

 

FLAMMENWERFER  posted:

So far the Colloms review of the Naim Core is the most comprehensive one out there.

Most people, myself included, found it hard to believe that MC prefers HDD over SSD in this application.

🔸 It would be good to discuss why this may be so rather than just ridicule it offhand as some are wont to do.

 

🔸 Flammenwerfer,.....I agree with you,..there seems to be a tendency on all forums to ridicule,or be rude to it,or those things you do not understand,are familiar with,or do not believe in....whether you have self-tested,have knowledge or not.

You,they,...can write incredibly sarcastic messages without being familiar with the question,...just because you,they THINK otherwise.
See an example below from the......"LP12-Radikal Problem"-thread...

⚪ A member Post: ◾I think I know what President T would call this arrant nonsense◾

It's probably a bit embarrassing for him,and some other members,who expressed themselves rude in that thread......when it turned out I was constantly right.
I knew that too,otherwise I had not started the thread.

But,...it is still much,much better here than on other forums.There are only a few that stand out,and they only lose respect against us other members.
 
So,..back to SSD against HDD... it had,as you say been interesting to discuss it more. Especially since some here in Sweden have constructed their own Nas.
It is very much rewritten on Lejonklou's forum.... and is used in many top systems there.

/Peder 🙂

I use a Qnap HS 251+ using Samsung SSD 850 EVO 2TB backed up to a Synology with WD reds, I can access both via ND5XS + n-DAC and frankly I can not tell the diffenece but my ears are 58 years old! But I can hear the Synology working while I canot hear the Qnap.

 

I have ssd and standard hard drives available for the Core. One day I did a tedious experiment to hear the relative merits of each. So I installed one or the other drives inside the Core itself and ripped some cd's that I especially liked for sound comparison. Then I removed the drive and re-ripped the same discs onto the other drive. Equall playing field in my mind.

I listened to the music on the standard drive first, as I remember, for about about an hour. Then I took that drive out and installed the ssd drive, and found the music to be noticeably faster, cleaner, more tactile (in the good sense) and for me 'better'. The same music on the standard drive came across as being rounded/softer, less responsive. This was all done on a Saturday, I believe.

Early the next week, I decided to finally set up everything the way I would end up most likely using the Core. So the ssd went inside the Core and the standard was outside connected via usb.

On listening an interesting thing happened. The cd's ripped to the standard hard drive now sounded virtually identical to the same cd ripped to the ssd (I could see both versions on the app now and could do quick comparisons as well). 

Great thing for me to know, as the presence of an ssd dive inside the Core raises (for me) another drive that may have lesser performance capabilities.

But now that I think of it, wasn't this the concept behind the Unity Serve SSD? Small ssd inside, not meant for music storage as such, but influencing the quality of the nas music storage ahead of it? 

 

 

 

Quads posted:

I have ssd and standard hard drives available for the Core. One day I did a tedious experiment to hear the relative merits of each. So I installed one or the other drives inside the Core itself and ripped some cd's that I especially liked for sound comparison. Then I removed the drive and re-ripped the same discs onto the other drive. Equall playing field in my mind.

I listened to the music on the standard drive first, as I remember, for about about an hour. Then I took that drive out and installed the ssd drive, and found the music to be noticeably faster, cleaner, more tactile (in the good sense) and for me 'better'. The same music on the standard drive came across as being rounded/softer, less responsive. This was all done on a Saturday, I believe.

Early the next week, I decided to finally set up everything the way I would end up most likely using the Core. So the ssd went inside the Core and the standard was outside connected via usb.

On listening an interesting thing happened. The cd's ripped to the standard hard drive now sounded virtually identical to the same cd ripped to the ssd (I could see both versions on the app now and could do quick comparisons as well). 

Great thing for me to know, as the presence of an ssd dive inside the Core raises (for me) another drive that may have lesser performance capabilities.

But now that I think of it, wasn't this the concept behind the Unity Serve SSD? Small ssd inside, not meant for music storage as such, but influencing the quality of the nas music storage ahead of it? 

 

 

 

I don't think that was the concept behind the US SSD. Surely the point was that you avoided storing the "firmware" on a hard disc drive with the associated risk of failure entailing a trip back to Salisbury and you weren't stuck with the 2TB limit of the internal hard disc because you used a NAS for storage instead.

Anyway you can use the Core in whichever way works for you, which is one of the more obvious advantages of it.

best

David

 

🔹 QUADS,....Very interesting experiment, discovered.
Thank you for sharing your experience.

Those who switched from HDD to SSD in,for example,a Mac Mini,also say they are experiencing it positively to SSD's advantage.

The SSD generates less heat and internal-vibrations,it may possibly be part of the explanation.
Some HDD's are rubber-suspended to reduce internal-vibrations.

However,optimizing a digital music reproduction chain,is significantly more complicated than an analog (turntable).
Just test, try, test, try......just relying on technical reasoning usually doesn't always lead forward.

Ps: Love your avatar-picture of the Isobarik 👍🏻.

/Peder 🙂

I have talked to the Swedish distributor of Melco.
He says you can't use a Melco SSD Audio Grade,anywhere else than in a Melco.

This is because they are designed in a special way,to work together for the best performance.

It was boring,I had a hope of being able to test Melco's SSD,but it goes as I said not.
Below are links to a picture of Melco's Audio Grade SSD,as well as Tonym's image on he's Melco NIZ.
-------------------------------------------------------

🔸 Melco have always promoted their use of Audio Grade SSD drives...Melco Audio Grade SSD,picture below....🔽🔽🔽🔽 

https://i.imgur.com/J4eJdYm.jpg

🔹 Melco NIZ, Tonym's picture of he's Melco below....🔽🔽🔽🔽 

https://i.imgur.com/jltxtvo.jpg

-----------------------------------------------------

/Peder🙂 

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