Stiletto plinth for their LP12

Hi, has anyone swapped their LP12 plinth for the Tangerine Stiletto? If so, please kindly share your thoughts. I am contemplating an upgrade to Ekos or Radikal but have been informed that the plinth (Stiletto) would be a better place to start. I can intuitively understand this (jointless, solid plinth to suspend rest of deck) and have demoed one before. Just interested to hear of people's views first. Thanks. 

Original Post

I can't comment on the stilleto, outside my budget. But I did stretch to the Booplinth which shares that machined from solid aspect. I was very happy with the uplift in performance which I found similar in scale to the recent addition of the Tiger Paw Tranquility.

I heard one at Cymbiosis a few months ago and thought it was fabulous when compared to a "standard" LP12 of the same spec. Would like to compare it to my own Karmen-equipped deck, as the Karmen, for me, was a big upgrade so I'd like to see what the differences are.

At the time, what struck me most was how much bigger the soundstage was - utterly huge. Also what it did for cymbals and percussion generally, giving them a greater sense of substance and an exquisite sense of decay that could be easily followed. Oh and the bass...

If I wasn't so attached to my Chris Harban plinth, I'd have one. In fact, another listen and I may well do!

You might want to consider a Radikal first, though. My Lingo 1 was easily outclassed by a 2 but the Radikal took the Turntable to a different planet. 

Ran mine with a Karmen for ages. Moved to Stiletto about 7 months ago - stunning. As great as the Karmen was, this is just in a different league.

Player is Radikal, Plateau subchassis, Ittok, Delos via Supercapped Superline.

 

Had it on a trampolin2, but just put the Skorpion platform on it to replace the tramp and was hooked. Not a cheap addition to a rather pricey plinth, but it just works. Hardly superising, the tramp was the only surface on the inside of the player without "control surfaces" to dissipate energy - the Skorpion adds that 6th suface and completes the player.

 

I'd liken the Stiletto to Supercapping the Superline, just more so.

 

Mike

Dave J posted:

I'm looking forward to hearing the Tranquility too, Mark. Will need to make trip up to see Peter soon...

He may have to fiddle a bit with your deck to optimize set-up but I suspect that you will enjoy what the Tranquility brings 

ATB,

Mark

ayisgroovy posted:

Ordered a Stiletto and currently being set up by the infamous Derek Jenkins. Also gone for arm cable rewrite on my 20yr Ittok LV2. Can't wait. Will play the Stiletto LP12 for a while and maybe then contemplate the Radikal. 

just curious, when you auditioned this, (assuming of course that you did) what did the Stiletto bring to party? i.e. in what areas did it improve the LP12? Did you demo with Radikal?

enjoy...

ken

@Ken C, at that level of course it was auditioned. The demo was vs top spec LP12 Akurate, both deks exactly the same bar the plinth. I must say, Stiletto blew the Akurate away. Don't take my word for it, hear it for yourself - I'm merely sharing my thought and experience here. Mechanically, if top plate replacements and wooden plinth "upgrades" make a difference, and they do because LP12 enthusiasts make those upgrades, then extending the benefits of corner bracing, rigid top plate that does not sag or resonate etc., it makes entire intuitive sense to go for a one piece plinth in principle. There can be side effects of course such as where the natural resonant frequency is but such factors have been designed out. Sonically, the benefits I heard were the absence of sibilance (yes even the top LP12 exhibits this), much improved space around the music allowing nuances and fine detail to come through. I could go on, but when I first discovered the Stiletto I initially was sceptical about the impact of a plinth especially at the price. But again, the intuition behind the design and explanations for it by Derek does make absolute sense. If you get the opportunity to listen and demo a Stiletto, go for it and post your findings here for all to share. 

varyat posted:
ANE posted:

Tranquility is a fraction of the cost of the Stiletto and a remarkable upgrade.

 

Ira

Tranquility is also a fraction of the cost of a Keel, a Radikal, an Ekos SE or a Lyra Etna..... as well as the Stiletto

 

That doesn't mean it negates any of them......

And if it works well with them (let's face it, it's a mod to the subchassis/bearing assembly, which in its' own right benefits greatly from being hung from the Stiletto, so there's a decent chance) all the better!

 

 

A few weeks in to the Stiletto plinth upgrade from standard Linn and I have to say what an amazing upgrade. Just to say that all else was left unchanged, just "merely" the plinth. The Stiletto is a plinth and top plate area all hewn from a solid billet of aluminium and eliminates the weak Linn top plate and the obvious join. This is a pure mechanical upgrade and demonstrates that a mechanical instrument (to the point of the coils moving around within the cartridge magnet field) such as the turntable has to follow well thought out design to allow the subchassis/arm assembly the best foundation and precise manufacturing engineering to close tolerances.  I guess the parallel with the Naim 500 series and NDS and Suoerline is the internal suspension to minimise mechanical  vibrations which could translate into microphony. On to the music. There was a post on the forum aptly calling the Stiletto the equivalent to DR'ing the LP12. And how right was that! There is more music detail coming through and a solidity to the lower registers. It is like adding a 555PSDR to the LP12!  Not only is there greater detail and expression of instrument timbre, the music takes on a rock steady and confident persona - previously my LP12 was good, very good actually, but could sound a tad brittle in certain complex musical places. Not so with The Stiletto. Just throw on any record and it plays it confidentially and with gusto. It is akin to what I experienced when after having my NAP500 serviced and DR'd.  It is that big. Don't take my word for it, and being cognisant of many forum members having had a plinth upgrade to other specialist wooden plinths, but if you are looking to upgrade your LP12 don't just think of the arm, subchassis etc. (important though they are) but try and listen to the difference the Stiletto makes. I started off considering an arm upgrade first but after I demoed the Stiletto I was set on that. I was confounded how the plinth could make such a big difference.  Oh, and the plinth finish matches exactly my 552/500 amps perfectly. Stiletto/Ittok LVII/ Dynavector XX2mk2/Superline/Supercap Olive. 

ayisgroovy posted:

A few weeks in to the Stiletto plinth upgrade from standard Linn and I have to say what an amazing upgrade. Just to say that all else was left unchanged, just "merely" the plinth. The Stiletto is a plinth and top plate area all hewn from a solid billet of aluminium and eliminates the weak Linn top plate and the obvious join. This is a pure mechanical upgrade and demonstrates that a mechanical instrument (to the point of the coils moving around within the cartridge magnet field) such as the turntable has to follow well thought out design to allow the subchassis/arm assembly the best foundation and precise manufacturing engineering to close tolerances.  I guess the parallel with the Naim 500 series and NDS and Suoerline is the internal suspension to minimise mechanical  vibrations which could translate into microphony. On to the music. There was a post on the forum aptly calling the Stiletto the equivalent to DR'ing the LP12. And how right was that! There is more music detail coming through and a solidity to the lower registers. It is like adding a 555PSDR to the LP12!  Not only is there greater detail and expression of instrument timbre, the music takes on a rock steady and confident persona - previously my LP12 was good, very good actually, but could sound a tad brittle in certain complex musical places. Not so with The Stiletto. Just throw on any record and it plays it confidentially and with gusto. It is akin to what I experienced when after having my NAP500 serviced and DR'd.  It is that big. Don't take my word for it, and being cognisant of many forum members having had a plinth upgrade to other specialist wooden plinths, but if you are looking to upgrade your LP12 don't just think of the arm, subchassis etc. (important though they are) but try and listen to the difference the Stiletto makes. I started off considering an arm upgrade first but after I demoed the Stiletto I was set on that. I was confounded how the plinth could make such a big difference.  Oh, and the plinth finish matches exactly my 552/500 amps perfectly. Stiletto/Ittok LVII/ Dynavector XX2mk2/Superline/Supercap Olive. 

Nice

ayisgroovy posted:

Ordered a Stiletto and currently being set up by the infamous Derek Jenkins. Also gone for arm cable rewrite on my 20yr Ittok LV2. Can't wait. Will play the Stiletto LP12 for a while and maybe then contemplate the Radikal. 

Is that the Derek (Del) Jenkins who was at Sound Org in London? He sold me my olives that I still use, and my whole Roksan TMS setup, as well as the Micromega Trio that sadly wasn't repairable when it died about 5 years ago. A great dealer and a lovely bloke.

Chris Dolan posted:

I really want to love the Stiletto - but those "rounded" corners on the right hand side of armboard just grab my attention and disproportionately irritate me 

Chris - me too but perhaps not to the same level. BUT - I'd love to hear Stiletto + Tranquillity. That may sell it.

Mind you, it's kinda bonkers (overall) spend for a vinyl spinner, which spins my mind (highly warped) on listening to other decks before committing.

Chris Dolan posted:

I really want to love the Stiletto - but those "rounded" corners on the right hand side of armboard just grab my attention and disproportionately irritate me 

Me too! Whilst the finish on the plinth is spectacularly good and in the fluted form looks superb, the rounded corners adjacent to the sharp right angle corners of the armboard just look wrong. I spoke with Mark at Tangerine Audio about this. He said he would discuss it with the firm which machines the plinth for them.

Chris Dolan posted:

I really want to love the Stiletto - but those "rounded" corners on the right hand side of armboard just grab my attention and disproportionately irritate me 

Thanks Chris.  I hadn't noticed this before, but now I can't help but notice.  Is there a particular reason for the rounded  inner corners?

Richard Dane posted:
Chris Dolan posted:

I really want to love the Stiletto - but those "rounded" corners on the right hand side of armboard just grab my attention and disproportionately irritate me 

Thanks Chris.  I hadn't noticed this before, but now I can't help but notice.  Is there a particular reason for the rounded  inner corners?

I was told by Mark on Friday that the corners on the top plate side are also machined with a similar radius which are then filed out by hand(!). The problem on the other side of the armboard is that there is much more material there. In my view, removal of these corner radii should be part of the machining operation. This would require a finer cutter which over the depth of the plinth could result in chatter. However, it is only the top inch or so that would need to be improved. It may also require a 5-axis machine.

ayisgroovy posted:

@Ken C, at that level of course it was auditioned. The demo was vs top spec LP12 Akurate, both deks exactly the same bar the plinth. I must say, Stiletto blew the Akurate away. Don't take my word for it, hear it for yourself - I'm merely sharing my thought and experience here. Mechanically, if top plate replacements and wooden plinth "upgrades" make a difference, and they do because LP12 enthusiasts make those upgrades, then extending the benefits of corner bracing, rigid top plate that does not sag or resonate etc., it makes entire intuitive sense to go for a one piece plinth in principle. There can be side effects of course such as where the natural resonant frequency is but such factors have been designed out. Sonically, the benefits I heard were the absence of sibilance (yes even the top LP12 exhibits this), much improved space around the music allowing nuances and fine detail to come through. I could go on, but when I first discovered the Stiletto I initially was sceptical about the impact of a plinth especially at the price. But again, the intuition behind the design and explanations for it by Derek does make absolute sense. If you get the opportunity to listen and demo a Stiletto, go for it and post your findings here for all to share. 

If I was hearing sibilance on a "top LP12" (assuming  Klimax spec and an "as new" Cirkus) I would have some concerns about the set up.

Clive B posted:
Richard Dane posted:
Chris Dolan posted:

I really want to love the Stiletto - but those "rounded" corners on the right hand side of armboard just grab my attention and disproportionately irritate me 

Thanks Chris.  I hadn't noticed this before, but now I can't help but notice.  Is there a particular reason for the rounded  inner corners?

I was told by Mark on Friday that the corners on the top plate side are also machined with a similar radius which are then filed out by hand(!). The problem on the other side of the armboard is that there is much more material there. In my view, removal of these corner radii should be part of the machining operation. This would require a finer cutter which over the depth of the plinth could result in chatter. However, it is only the top inch or so that would need to be improved. It may also require a 5-axis machine.

Looks like a square cornered Stiletto might soon available  Perhaps a magic wand is not needed after all.

Game on - and may need to establish an anticipatory fund 

Due to forum rules Mark cannot respond on this thread however, to ensure accurate information he has confirmed that the inner corners are now available "squared" on the Stiletto plinth.  To anybody wanting further info on this I suggest you contact Tangerine Audio.

Chris Dolan posted:
Clive B posted:
Richard Dane posted:
Chris Dolan posted:

I really want to love the Stiletto - but those "rounded" corners on the right hand side of armboard just grab my attention and disproportionately irritate me 

Thanks Chris.  I hadn't noticed this before, but now I can't help but notice.  Is there a particular reason for the rounded  inner corners?

I was told by Mark on Friday that the corners on the top plate side are also machined with a similar radius which are then filed out by hand(!). The problem on the other side of the armboard is that there is much more material there. In my view, removal of these corner radii should be part of the machining operation. This would require a finer cutter which over the depth of the plinth could result in chatter. However, it is only the top inch or so that would need to be improved. It may also require a 5-axis machine.

Looks like a square cornered Stiletto might soon available  Perhaps a magic wand is not needed after all.

Game on - and may need to establish an anticipatory fund 

Good to hear that, actually no, it's bloody annoying to hear that!  I was concentrating my attention on speakers....

Interesting to see how aesthetics can sway the decision for an outright better Sondek than the standard. Again, I have to stress that if you can demo a Stiletto vs the top flight LP12 you'd be pleasantly surprised! Rounded internal corners will dissipate in importance. I know, I've been there!  One forum member put it (Stiletto) as DR 'ing the Sondek and how true that is. Not only more detail, instrument timbre etc etc., the music just takes on a gusto and confident stance. I'm not sure how to describe it but just go for a demo if you can. Next stop is the Skorpion baseboard and then Radikal. 

ayisgroovy posted:

 Again, I have to stress that if you can demo a Stiletto vs the top flight LP12 you'd be pleasantly surprised! Rounded internal corners will dissipate in importance. I know, I've been there!  One forum member put it (Stiletto) as DR 'ing the Sondek and how true that is. Not only more detail, instrument timbre etc etc., the music just takes on a gusto and confident stance. I'm not sure how to describe it but just go for a demo if you can. Next stop is the Skorpion baseboard and then Radikal. 

Having heard a friend's Stiletto upgrade and being pretty stunned, I recently heard what a Scorpion brings to the party. I was expecting to have to listen hard to detect the difference. I was wrong. I was stunned again, though this time without the qualifying "pretty".   

I was told the technical/engineering rationale for the improvement but it just plain witchcraft I tell you!  

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