TEOTWAWKI

Florestan posted:
Don Atkinson posted:

Florestan,

During what period did you live and work in the UK ? And during that time, where did you live and what sort of work did you do ?

I was born here and have lived probably 50 of my 70 years here and I don't recognise any aspect of your various descriptions of life in the UK, either as noted above nor in other threads in which you have participated. I'm aware of some of the isolated events that you have mentioned from time to time, but they don't translate into the distorted overall picture that you have painted.

I have lived and worked in a wide range of other countries including Canada, The USA, Sweden and much of Europe including Greece and the Balkans. Also much of the Middle East from Jordan to The Emirates and Oman. Plus India and Pakistan. The UK, Sweden and Canada all have their problems, that's for sure, but boy-oh-boy they beat the rest by a country mile when it comes to overall quality of life.

I note (as underlined) that some of your views are based on hearsay ! And I fully appreciate that my perceptions of life are based on my own (necessarily) limited personal experiences (as is the case with all of us) and my own limited reception of information provided by others eg books, radio & tv news items, the Internet etc (again, as in the case with all of us).

Don, I see that right off you are questioning my credibility Nope, simply inviting you to make a statement. Others, myself included, can then make our own assessments of the statement that you made and which I highlighted in red. and then for the cherry on top you go right for the insinuation that "some of your [my] views are based on hearsay !"I actually added an underline to your words "or so this is what I have heard" - In my opinion, this is the same as "hearsay", but please feel free to clarify the meaning of your initial words. I don't particularly wish to respond in kind as this proves nothing (your world vs. mine) but for the sake of context I will tell you the following.  I do this not for comparison as it is clear you have extensive experience.  There is some value in this but as you say, it is yours alone.  It doesn't prove anything further than this.  You may not agree with my views and this is fine by me. This sentiment is mutual.

Ninety percent of my working career has involved a direct relationship with Scandinavia, Europe (including Russia etc), mid to Northern Africa, Middle East, and Asia.  The remaining five percent by default went to North America and five percent to South America.  In the midst of all of this, I have had a time in London and in Scotland.  Elsewhere, I have a little exposure to British expats working in Scandinavia, Europe, Asia and the Middle East.  So I have some knowledge of the world and for your purposes, I highlight some connection to the UK and its people for context.  This is as much as I will say about this and only have said this to satisfy your curiosity regarding my credibility. See my comments above.

For the purposes of putting this all in perspective, I now can say that 9/11 is roughly a mid-way point in all these adventures.  I have said before that I am a very observant person (in my humble opinion)I'll take your word for that - on both counts and it is my view that the world was different before and after.  The after part didn't suddenly change but it was an evolution that seemed to really take hold and accelerate around 2008 onward (starting with BHO II).

Pre-9/11, you could not have found a more Eurocentric (basically an anywhere but North/South America) person than myself.  There was a point where I had to turn down an offer to move to London due to circumstances and I was quite beside myself about this.  I thought the world of the UK leading up to this time.  It is my opinion that the UK has changed though tremendouslythat is not my opinion and today I doubt that I would go near LondonI happened to go up to London yesterday to Absolute Sounds, Ham House, Richmond and Wimbledon.I didn't encounter any nasty people It is hard to explain how so many seemingly good people just changed for the worst over the past decade. That's not my experience in general, although I do perceive more people seeking "Justice" for the historic actions of the fore-fathers of other people and I do perceive more people keen to assert their "rights". But this is not unique to the UK, it is the same in many, if not most, countries.

And yes, this forum represents a little bit of the puzzle that backs up my assessments.  This is not normal to scream at, shout down,  demean, bully and curse at anyone who simply has a different opinion than you.I think you will find that one or two of us consider this last sentence is a reflection of your good self.  Ask yourself what company thinks it is OK to ban a certain topic and any divergent views and dialogue (while they still hope to do business in that same certain country)?  It is just insane madness how people are reacting and talking these days.   This is a huge insult to 50% of your market but I think management here thinks nothing of it and strangely doesn't care because they are also part of and fully immersed in this rampant disease of groupthink and univision party line.  Good luck with that.You will have to be more specific about whom you are talking. I have my own guess, but If it's a specific forum topic that is bugging you, then i'm with the "company". It wasn't the subject, it was the tone of the discussion. IMHO the tone of the discussion was unacceptable in a peaceful civilised forum.

In the pre-9/11 days, people still could talk and you could mostly not worry about being singled out for having a view contrary to the "states" official view.  Not today.

As for hearsay, this is a blanket statement which is meant to give some sort of nasty perception I'm sure to cause doubt but I ask for a specific example that I gave that isn't true or that was contrived based on "gossip" or "rumours." See my comment above about the part of your post that I underlined. The names I listed above were normal, innocent people directly targeted by your government.  I guess you all accept this sort of statism?  Again, all is well for you until you become the target.

I'll stop here shortly because I don't think I will ever convince the locals here of what is going on in reality when you are maybe knee deep in the muck. You certainly aren't convincing me, but that is not because of the disgraceful slur that you have just made. And this is fine. Sure, free speech is fine. It reveals a lot about character.

The real turning point for me has been the rise of (left wing) politicians who now signal to a base that it is open season on those who oppose them.  I could write a book and list hundreds of examples but I'll stop with just two.  Just a peak so you get the picture.  The first is Hillary Clinton declaring that those who wouldn't vote for her are part of the basket of deplorables.  The second is BHO II targeting Christians by sending the IRS after them.  I won't give any examples related directly about the UK as I don't want to further incense anyone.

Then when you have news organizations doing jumping jacks and acting as spokespeople (rather than journalist) this is way beyond what I can stomach.  No longer will I sit back though and allow a government or partisan hacks tell me what I can think or say.  The only consolation I have is the knowledge that eventually the left-wing ideologues will eat each other up.

You might find you have a few sympathisers on this forum concerning the comments I have highlighted in blue.

Huge posted:
Florestan posted:

...
I actually had this idea while listening to BHO II speaking in South Africa this week.  He was going on and on about how terrible men are (obviously straight white ones who didn't vote for him or Hillary).
...

Well it would now seem that you may finally have nailed your colours to the mast with that sexist, racist and homophobic remark.

But then again maybe, by being offensive, you were perhaps just trying to get a rise form the rest of us?

Florestan posted:

Huge, I am honestly not sure how you have stretched what I was reporting into something else.  I didn't propose these ideas.  Are you not offended by a former President who finds it necessary to smear an entire gender and focus on skin colour?  If you understood anything I have ever said on this matter I have consistently and firmly always stood on the principle that no one should make such statement about anyones gender or skin colour or other attributes about a person etc..  This is simply not acceptable.  I only ask why the left insists on keeping this type of stuff in the headlines?  I guess it is his dog whistle calling his base and those who pass judgement on the "deplorables."

I wan't commenting on what Barrak Obama said, but on your comment about it - i.e. the part you included in the bracketed phrase starting "obviously...".  Those were your words not Obama's and it was those words that were offensive.

These words are in complete exception to your statement "If you understood anything I have ever said on this matter I have consistently and firmly always stood on the principle that no one should make such statement about anyones gender or skin colour or other attributes about a person etc.."

You obviously understand that statement is offensive, so I simply don't understand why you would choose to express yourself that way if it wasn't intended to offend.

When I hear Obama speaking I'm always impressed at his oratory skills.  That said, from the excerpts I've heard from his recent speeches in Africa I thought his message was a simple, narrow and thinly veiled one: what a prat his successor is.        

Florestan posted:
Kevin Richardson posted:

1. Medicare for all isn't going to turn the USA into Venezuela.  => Yes, you are correct.  BHO II only doubled the national debt in 8 years.  That is, one idiot President doubled what 43 Presidents before him couldn't spend as a group over hundreds of years.

2. I'm not a communist or socialist. Your whole "Go the Venezuela if you don't like the USA" is just... => Then what are you?  Given your plans listed above and your view of the USA (found in your original USA thread), I'd say you are only missing the Fascist element of Communism and Socialism.

3. You call me a thief because I said to "max out all your lines of credit"? Did I ever say "with the intention of never repaying your debts"? No I did not. In the event this plan in fully implemented then I would leave behind my real estate which would more than cover any debts. The only thing that matters is moving wealth out of USA to more reliable states. [Before the government puts restrictions on the export of capital] When the $ tanks then pay off the debt. => It is quite obvious that you have no plans on coming back.  If you were, you would maybe just rent your place out rather than draft your TEOTWAWKI treatise?

4. My parents don't care about anything except the "end times" and yelling about how "poor people are ruining the USA". My mother literally believes we are just years from the Apocalypse so we don't have to worry about healthcare/Environment/Education  for my generation or my kids cause "Heaven". [God forbid my Dad has to pay an extra $60/month for the Medicare HE EARNED!!!!!!!] => Didn't you say your parents worked hard their whole lives and were responsible citizens?  At any time along the way did they draft any plans to max. out the LOC on the home and flee the country?   Hmmm?  THEY EARNED it and the right to an opinion about this and criticism of irresponsible people.

I'm not a Christian so "Heaven" isn't really an acceptable solution  for all of life's challenges. => Noted

You sound like a typical baby boomer complaining about the freeloading "others" living "without a worry or care. You might be surprised to learn that younger generations are the people stuck paying to keep your generation alive at any cost. We will spend millions keeping an octogenarian alive but god forbid we should do anything about making health insurance available to working age individuals who can work. => I think this is what you meant?  Or do you mean working age individuals who deserve free healthcare?  By the way, in your Socialist paradise they don't spend millions keeping babies or octogenarian's alive which may make you happy.  Have to balance the books after-all and make decisions for the good of society.  Lives don't matter and are disposable after-all.

Good luck with your "restitution for the sins of others"  or whatever BS gets you through your days. => Thank you!

 

Kevin, I have an idea.  Rather than put you through all this planning and seeing that no one else here really cares (perhaps they have the same views as you?) here is my proposal to solving this worldwide issue.  Since where-ever you go you are bound to run into a few people from time to time that share the views of your parents or even someone like me.  That would be stressful for you as you'd have to develop a doomsday plan 2.0 and 3.0 and so on.  

I actually had this idea while listening to BHO II speaking in South Africa this week.  He was going on and on about how terrible men are (obviously straight white ones who didn't vote for him or Hillary).  It just seems the one world socialist dictators and their followers just don't like anyone that doesn't agree with them and none of them are capable of a discussion so let's just all accept this reality of the future and have a worldwide LibSocCommyMarxFascExit.  You'all can have a certain territory (say UK/Europe/Africa/Antarctica and all like minded people who want to live the Socialist dream can have that half of the world and move there.  The other half, all the deplorable right wing conservatives can live in peace and harmony in the other half of the territory.  We can have a Left Naim Forum and a Right Naim Forum and then never talk about anything or disagree about any touchy issues.

Let's face it.  Democracy doesn't work especially when one side like Hillary/DNC pay a Russian spy to create a phony salacious dossier in order to create a special council and cause havoc to a country because they are sore loser losers.   Let's have your side ruled by BHO II, Hillary, and Trudeau.  The Conservative side can be lead by the current President / VP.

Basically, this is just a more rational, organized, sane way rather than your way to part ways and keep fighting over partisan lines that exist so clearly now anyways. 

I'm sorry but your posts prove the point of my now deleted thread.

This thread is about "emergency preparedness."

I don't care about you or any of the self righteous BS you spew in every post. I know you are old and currently have at best a tenuous grasp of logic so I'm not going to waste time debating you on this or any other topic. ( i.e. I don't need to be physically present in the USA to sell my real estate. I can hire an attorney to sell my assets. Worst case scenario the banks seize the assets to cover my debts. I thought that was easy enough to realize without having to spell it out. If you can't even make this simple connection then any "debate" is futile.)

I will refute one of your "points". I believe that all lives matter. We should provide healthcare for the everyone not just the poor, disabled, and the elderly. My moral problem is that my government is actively trying to take away MY health insurance that I pay to protect MY family. I have paid more taxes than 98% of the population but people like YOU consider me a "freeloading irresponsible socialist parasite" because I have a minor preexisting condition. I have paid > $100,000 in health insurance premiums over the years and have used maybe $20,000 worth of actual healthcare in that same period. If the government prevents me from protecting my family from financial ruin by making it impossible to get health insurance then the government is acting immorally. In this scenario self preservation will require drastic steps. 

What you've failed to grasp is that not everyone can get jobs that offer health insurance. I know you are old and still think the world is like it was in the 70's but the world has changed. (Yes it's true just google it.) What you are advocating is letting corporations decide who lives or dies. What kind of freedom do we  have as a nation when eventually we all have to take corporate jobs at low wages just to stay alive? Are you so "Christian" that you are OK with our governments current plan for "depopulation"? 

I'm sorry your life has been as miserable as you sound. My primary concern in life is to ensure my children, nieces, and nephews (who are all neither white nor Christian) can grow up to full and meaningful lives. If you leave me alone I won't bother you. If you get in my way, then you will become my enemy.

Can we now get back on topic?

What kind of can opener should I get?

As someone living in the designated "friendly countries" what makes you (not specifically the OP but anyone who thinks this is an option) think you will be so welcome? NZ has some pretty high barriers to entry (billionaires are who we currently suck up to) and you'll need to leave your AR-15's at the door, although semi-automatic weapons are available here, military style weapons are strictly controlled needing a special license.  Even for a normal gun license you are interviewed (by a Gun Control officer employed by the Police) as well as your partner and a nominated non-family member referee (you are not present for these 2 interviews).  You have to prove a purpose in owning (self defence is not a valid purpose) no history of violence or mental instability and pass a gun safety and handling test as well as demonstrating proper separate storage facility for weapons and ammunition (pretty tricky for a migrant).  

In addition we are not particularly keen on accepting groups of people who have managed to screw up their own countries and are now running away instead of doing their bit to fix it, unless you are actually saying that you're refugees...  We aren't opening the doors to a second colonisation, there are plenty here who haven't recovered from the first.

Simon_H posted:

As someone living in the designated "friendly countries" what makes you (not specifically the OP but anyone who thinks this is an option) think you will be so welcome? NZ has some pretty high barriers to entry (billionaires are who we currently suck up to) and you'll need to leave your AR-15's at the door, although semi-automatic weapons are available here, military style weapons are strictly controlled needing a special license.  Even for a normal gun license you are interviewed (by a Gun Control officer employed by the Police) as well as your partner and a nominated non-family member referee (you are not present for these 2 interviews).  You have to prove a purpose in owning (self defence is not a valid purpose) no history of violence or mental instability and pass a gun safety and handling test as well as demonstrating proper separate storage facility for weapons and ammunition (pretty tricky for a migrant).  

In addition we are not particularly keen on accepting groups of people who have managed to screw up their own countries and are now running away instead of doing their bit to fix it, unless you are actually saying that you're refugees...  We aren't opening the doors to a second colonisation, there are plenty here who haven't recovered from the first.

I have family in Canada and Thailand. Worst case scenario, I'll buy Maltese citizenship and move to Germany where I have some close friends.

NZ would be great but like you said nearly impossible.

Im not a gun nut I just believe that in my current environment owning  guns is a decent hedge.

Kevin Richardson posted:

I have family in Canada and Thailand. Worst case scenario, I'll buy Maltese citizenship and move to Germany where I have some close friends.

NZ would be great but like you said nearly impossible.

Im not a gun nut I just believe that in my current environment owning  guns is a decent hedge.

Thinking in individual terms (me and my family) seems appealing and may work for a short period however in this modern world whatever you are running from tends to follow whether it be a political worry or environmental.   Preppers may get to live in their bunkers but for what purpose?   I do recall heavy criticism from the West about the Syrian refugees not staying trying to improve the situation (either by taking up arms or by other means) how is this any different, they all made individual decisions to leave?  Should we just get rid of borders and allow the free movement of all people?  What are countries any more, do they still serve a purpose?  I don't have answers I can only try to effect change where I deem it desirable. 

As a gun owner, while it is tempting to think of them as protection, there is almost no situation where they are produced in civilian circumstances that improves the outcome for anyone involved.  There is always a price to pay.

Of course the ownership of a brand of HIFI doesn’t preclude someone from being a certain way but I am always shocked when I read these types of threads and the opinions expressed within them. 

I know my own country is not perfect and that we may very well end up with the US president’s British counterpart Boris Johnson as Prime Minister and yes we did vote for Brexit but it is still a country that tries very hard to respect and protect the individual no matter who they are. 

By the way there are many so called white, straight men who strongly oppose the views expressed in this thread by Florestan and co. 

I see one vital thing missing inthe ‘prepping’ list, and surely the most important after ensuring family and friends are safe: how to preserve or replace your hifi system and music?!!!

A hard drive with music on it could at least keep the music - one never previously identified benefit of streaming! 

Kevin Richardson posted:
I have family in Canada and Thailand. Worst case scenario, I'll buy Maltese citizenship and move to Germany where I have some close friends.
 

There goes the neighbourhood.

"When the USA sends its people, they’re not sending their best.

They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you.

They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists.

And some, I assume, are good people."

Crickey, when this thread first started, I assumed it was meant to be light-hearted and my first three responses were in that vein.

Now, i'm not entirely sure what the OP really intended. Was it meant to be a light-hearted escape so as to enjoy a bit of "fun-time", or....

....was it a serious cry for help, eiher to prepare for an apocalypse or to escape a depression ?

I don't want to end up being flippant and insensitive on the one hand, nor unnecessarily assertive on the other.

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