The Hugo of streaming?

Yes just had a look on eBay.  I also went back to the thread on the Linn forum and people are taking about the same 2960 switch.

I seems as though it is not consumer friendly at all?

Are these no longer manufactured new?  I get that impression based on what I see on eBay

glevethan posted:

Are these no longer manufactured new?  I get that impression based on what I see on eBay

The range is a bit confusing as there are so many variants, but the old blue ones have been replaced by newer models with a slightly larger, white case. 

glevethan posted:

Yes just had a look on eBay.  I also went back to the thread on the Linn forum and people are taking about the same 2960 switch.

I seems as though it is not consumer friendly at all?

Are these no longer manufactured new?  I get that impression based on what I see on eBay

Actually they should be just plug and play. Most sellers should do a hard reset to default (if not it’s just a long push of the mode button). If you can, have a look at the date of manufacture or the version - get a higher version if you can (mine are 03). Blue/grey ones start at just under $30; white ones about $120. Remember, these were $500 plus switches when new, so the hardware is good; considered end of life now because of no more software suppport but that’s a non-issue if using as a plain switch. 

ChrisSU posted:

What you really need is one of the newer, white 2960s as these have two SFP ports, then you can run fibre to your office and ditch another set of FMCs 😉

Well, considered that, and then just for the heck of it bypassed them going direct from the 2960, and figured out they aren’t needed now. It must be cleaning up lousy switches that is/was the appeal of these fiber bridges. Wish I’d listened to Simon earlier. Anyone wanna buy a (fiber) bridge (or two) in Seattle?

charlesphoto posted:
glevethan posted:

Yes just had a look on eBay.  I also went back to the thread on the Linn forum and people are taking about the same 2960 switch.

I seems as though it is not consumer friendly at all?

Are these no longer manufactured new?  I get that impression based on what I see on eBay

Actually they should be just plug and play. Most sellers should do a hard reset to default (if not it’s just a long push of the mode button). If you can, have a look at the date of manufacture or the version - get a higher version if you can (mine are 03). Blue/grey ones start at just under $30; white ones about $120. Remember, these were $500 plus switches when new, so the hardware is good; considered end of life now because of no more software suppport but that’s a non-issue if using as a plain switch. 

So I'm a bit confused. Are the blue gray ones sufficient or should I be looking for a white one? It will replace my NETGEAR switch for all the computers and as a bonus the Linn Klimax DS will be plugged directly into it.

Your post before was a bit confusing are you selling a white one in Seattle?  Or lamenting that you did not go with a white one from the beginning

Blue/gray ones are fine and what I have two of, version 05's. French Rooster will be reporting back on (one of) the Cisco thread(s) how a new white one sounds compared to his older. The white ones have more forwarding ports if useful and just newer build. You might look for a 12 port model if you plan on doing the whole house to one switch and that's enough. Use power and ethernet cables to subtly tune and drive you bonkers. 

Correct me if I am wrong however I seem to remember from the thread on the Linn forum that only the 8 port one is fanless - and all other larger ones have fans?  My switch is (unfortunately) located in my listening room so a fan is a no go.

As for Ethernet cables, as per the Linn forum, I have a Blue Jeans Cable 6A ethernet arriving from Amazon on Monday.  I am going to use this between the switch and the DS.  Power - I will use what comes with the switch.

On a separate and unrelated note my days of using the SonicOrbiter SE have come to an end.  ROON just dropped their major update 1.5 two days ago.....and....native support for the Linn DS's is here!

Go to the Cisco thread and on page 6 there’s a complete primer and rundown of model numbers. There are 12 port fanless ones. And there are 10/100/1000 models but much more expensive, so why for $30 one uses the Cisco’s as a sub switch. No amount of audio or needs or gear can accept more than 100mb/sec. 

Or wait and see what Uptone come up with this summer for an audiophile switch. Another reason i wouldn’t pay more than one needed to to try a Cisco. 

Where is this thread?  I did the search and could not find it - just a few different Cisco threads.

Perhaps Richard will not mind if you post a link as it will be a link to a thread on the Naim forum - or perhaps you are speaking about a thread on another forum?

The other Cisco threads on the Naim forum I browsed also spoke of the Naim recommended bog standard Netgear GS108 switch.  Any comments on this?

I don't want to go switch, or PS, crazy.

Charlesphoto

Since you have been dabbling with this for longer than I have can you please advise on this:

As per reading page 6 and the different models I found the following on eBay US (as I am in the States).  You can probably copy and paste as the forum will not allow outside links) and see the same listing as I do

Cisco 2960C WS-C2960CG-8TC-L 8 Port Gigabit - the seller is Netyorker

This looks to be the Catalyst model  - Gigabit - for $159 - internal PS fanless

It appears to be an attractive deal

Cisco 2960C WS-C2960CG-8TC-L 8 Port Gigabit

Bought it - $149 delivered

I am happy.  I will run a Blue Jeans 6A ethernet cable between the switch and my Klimax DS

The switch will be used for all of my devices.  The reason not to isolate just the DS on a separate switch is because the DS is fed with FLAC files stored on an external HD connected to a downstairs iMac.  So the iMac needs to go into this switch - so the other computers and wifi points might as well

Hi Simon

Thanks for the reply.  I think the last time we interacted on the forum was back in the Lavry days!

I am excited.

One thing I could not understand is the concept of the last few feet of the ethernet chain.  As stated above my files reside on an external HD connected to an iMac in the kitchen.  The iMac then connects to the switch in the listening room - via what must be about 100-150 feet of old Cat5 cable.  My problem was always understanding how the last few feet of premium ethernet cable could make a difference if the first 100 feet was generic wire.

I believe I now understand - please correct me if I am wrong.  I read that switches such as these Cisco devices internally  "regenerate/rebuild"  the signal - to put it in simple terms.  At that point the ethernet cable between the switch and my Linn then becomes important (thus the Blue Jeans 6A cable (recommended on the Linn forum along with Supra, Certicable etc.).

Best

Gregg

 

 

 

joe9407 posted:

yes, that one seems like a decent deal for the newer model -- though as mentioned earlier, the older "blue/green" ones for circa $50 will be good enough for audio streaming purposes.

I figured I would splurge.  I also wanted a gigabit switch.  I have 150/150 fiber however I can go as high as 300/300 if I want.  1 gig fiber is eventually coming 

I think you've made a fine purchase, and one I probably would myself if I wasn't already knee deep in switches!

Also, I wouldn't discount the ethernet cable you have going into the switch, not just coming out. It will be a lot more subtle, but I know I can tell the difference between cables from my NUC to the 2960 (which then feeds another 2960 via fiber). Like I said, it's subtle, and your YMMV. A bigger jump in SQ would be getting off the iMac and using a purpose built or low power server (like a NUC with an inexpensive linear power supply) - maybe one that can be located closer to the listening room and run a decent piece of Cat6 from it to the Cisco. But for now the switch should make a difference. 

Charles

I was already thinking about getting a Blue Jeans cable to go between the Router and switch.  The cost is negligible.

As for NUC's, servers etc I know you use Rendu's, Uptone etc. for your Naim DAC.

Fortunately the Linn DS's really need none of that.  A simple UPnP feed via Ethernet is all that is really necessary.  The entire DS line has some pretty significant internal circuitry which takes care of everything and eliminates the need for external purifiers and other such devices.

 

 

I’m keen to try LPS+LT3045 route for power supply, my soldering skills must be sufficient as I have built a Crack headphone amp recently. But I would need 2A current, as I want to try it with a RPi based streamer - as I understand I would need to run 4 boards in parallel, as each one is 500mA? Any idea on where to find a decent guidance on how to make it work? I understand that some additional components will be needed for this

glevethan posted:

I believe I now understand - please correct me if I am wrong.  I read that switches such as these Cisco devices internally  "regenerate/rebuild"  the signal - to put it in simple terms.  

Gregg, exactly right, a switch recreates the data frames, and at a lower level still, the switch has its own synchronisation clock for sending data over the  twisted pairs.

As far as data into and out of the switch, there seems to be a misunderstanding by some posters, as far as the switch is concerned, every device it’s connected to is sending to it... think of it like spokes around a hub, or traffic entering and leaving a large multi lane traffic roundabout with several exits each with traffic coming and going. ... so from a point of few of flow of frames there is no real concept of data into the switch from a single remote switch or router or NAS.. every connected device is sending to the switch.... it’s how duplex Ethernet switching works... it’s just  the vehicles will be carrying different  size loads, but there will be a limit for the largest truck permitted.

tsh posted:

I’m keen to try LPS+LT3045 route for power supply, my soldering skills must be sufficient as I have built a Crack headphone amp recently. But I would need 2A current, as I want to try it with a RPi based streamer - as I understand I would need to run 4 boards in parallel, as each one is 500mA? Any idea on where to find a decent guidance on how to make it work? I understand that some additional components will be needed for this

Over at diyaudio forums (vendor's bazaar section) there is one thread on LT3045 based pcbs, 3A (and soon 5A) offered by the member Stammheim. You can get bare or complete, ac/dc or dc/dc and they are good quality - he is helpful if you let him know your exact needs.

charlesphoto posted:

Alexy sells 1a Lt3045 boards on the bay. Waiting on one to go in between LPS-1 and microRendu. He’ll also solder the connectors on if you ask.

 

I ordered one of those a while back but have not received it.  I hope to use it in an old LT1083 ps I have lying around. I hope you report back your impressions with the LPS-1. My LPS-1/mR(1.3) setup benefits greatly from the addition of the ISO-Regen, but do not know if that would benefit you with the 1.4 board.

Brilliant posted:

Hi M,

Interesting CAT7 usage-obviously has good EMI shielding. The 2 twisted pairs of( 22AWG?) PoE should be sufficient for the LPS and could  be soldered directly to the DC connectors (with some care).

B

Hi Brilliant,

Yes, EMI/RFI has been part of the discussion elsewhere, and doesn't feel logically correct, adding cable and improving EMI/RFI?

One report that was added to the thread:

Really late to this thread, but thanks to @sligolad posting on CA I found this most interesting thread, I must spend to much time listening and not enough reading. Anyway I skimmed a lot of the earlier discussion and read most of the last 50 pages or so. So Wednesday I placed an order for 2 ugreen 1M Cat 7's and 4 pairs of PoE adaptors and below is my story of this. On most forums I am known as quadman. My chain before this was AMD Ryzen 1800x based PC, 16GB 3000MHz ram, titanium PSU, 64GB Intel SLC OS drive, with win 10 pro, AO, AF Pro 8.1. I power this drive with a DIYinHK linear PSU at 5V and use Coboc 6" sata cables, Music is on a 3.5" Security (WD Red) based HDD (5200 RPM), roon and tidal. I upsample everything to DSD512. From PC I use custom silver 6" USB tail to Uptone regen powered by 7V off 2nd leg of DIYinHK LPSU, 2M wire world Starlight7 to a Isoregen (GI turned off or it won't play) and a short uptone USPCB connector to my T+A dac8 DSD dac. I power the IR with a S11 PSU. I put the PoE's between DIYinHK LPS and regen and S11 and IR.

Well my uGreen 1m cat 7 cables and passive PoE adaptors showed up yesterday, despite reading very favorable comments from folks who use this setup to power devices I was skeptical, how could adding more connections in the power path be a good thing. I was using shielded (JSSG mod) starquad power cables connected directly to PSU at one end and 2.1x5.5mm barrel connector at device end, now I was removing the direct connection at LPSU end installing a female 2.1mm connector and plugging a PoE adaptor into that, a ugreen cat 7 cable into the ethernet part at both ends of PoE's and the barrel of the second PoE into a Isoregen located at the dac (T+A dac 8 DSD) and a regen located at the PC. So I had now replaced 2 shielded direct connected (at LPSU) starquad cables with this mess of cat 7 and PoE adaptors. It took several on/off, plug/unplug cycles for the PC to see the Dac (that IR is a fussy piece) and I set a playlist to play with the amps turned off my goal to get 4-5 hours of burn in before sitting to listen.

Well it was now time to sit and listen and listen I did, it was a 6 hour session and for most of it I was playing music from my most played albums on Roon, the first 3 pages of albums, albums I know very well as I listen an average of 100 hours a month, not background listening, but sit and focus on music listening. Dumbfounded is all I can say this was a pretty big change, a very positive change. Wider, deeper soundstage with much more energy inside it. Backgrounds just disappeared and you are left with just the performers, more solid than before even at the edges of the sound stage, their presence was just more than anytime before. Leading edges of transients where fast and very well defined giving a nice dynamic jump to the sound from pre PoE. I detected no edges of digital glare at all to the sound 6 hours in I still wanted to listen, but the clock told me to go to bed (it was 2:30am). Overall the sound was more like I was at the performance than the performance playing on my stereo. It had more of a human quality to it, more dynamic, more transparent, more speed. Very pleased with this PoE chain and I have no idea why it does what it does. My next move is to direct connect the PoE adaptor to the LPSU's and add another one to power my SLC OS SSD inside my PC. I will also add some in series LT3045 regulators to step the voltage down from my LPSU from 7V to 5V and I will power the SSD, IR and regen at this voltage, that I expect will be another jump up based on comments of those who have done the same.

This is my experience too. Really, it is cheap - give it a go!

M

Lanmark CAT7A
My friend bought a half mile of Lanmark 7A SFTP Nexans Cable cheap via the bay, from someone in the oil industry who was using it on oil rigs. This is seriously meaty stuff and built for VERY high bandwidths. To enable this it uses special connectors, GG45. The scheme is designed to reduce crosstalk. The GG45 connectors split the cables as far as possible and so although the connector can be wired a la RJ45 it also has new connectors at the bottom to increase the space between the cables. From our POV we need to be able to connect these beefy cables into a standard RJ45, and the female connectors allow for this.

We looked at wiring this cable into a standard male RJ45. However, the wires are just too wide. I did think about wiring it just for the DC wires, but my friend believes has a Lanmark 7A patch lead wired in standard 8-pin which he will lend me to test wrt the PoE experiments.

I am looking at getting a GG45 crimping set as there will be enough cable left over for me to wire my house, I last wired my house in the early '90s. This should cover me for the rest of my life.

Some links:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXr91BlM7U4
https://www.nexans.co.uk/eserv...6872/LANmark_7A.html
http://www.nexans.co.uk/eservi..._GG45_Connector.html
Pinouts = https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_over_Ethernet

M

Mr Underhill posted:
Brilliant posted:

Hi M,

Interesting CAT7 usage-obviously has good EMI shielding. The 2 twisted pairs of( 22AWG?) PoE should be sufficient for the LPS and could  be soldered directly to the DC connectors (with some care).

B

Hi Brilliant,

Yes, EMI/RFI has been part of the discussion elsewhere, and doesn't feel logically correct, adding cable and improving EMI/RFI?

..

M

Right you are - it is a bit of a puzzle from the EMI side as the end cables are still in play.

Thanks for the info.

FYI I’m using a meter of bare Supra CAT8 with dc barrel screw connectors, all four pairs in use, between my  microRendu and LPS-1 and the sound is glorious. Wasn’t that impressed by the cheap cable and poE adapter, but this is on another level. Really really good compared to my nice Canare dc starquad with oyaide connectors. Just blows it out of the water. 

charlesphoto posted:

FYI I’m using a meter of bare Supra CAT8 with dc barrel screw connectors, all four pairs in use, between my  microRendu and LPS-1 and the sound is glorious. Wasn’t that impressed by the cheap cable and poE adapter, but this is on another level. Really really good compared to my nice Canare dc starquad with oyaide connectors. Just blows it out of the water. 

CP - thanks for your posts. I have tried a foot of that. Add me to the pleasantly surprised. In my setup (LPS-1.2>ultraRendu) it appears that there is a reduction of the noise floor. Playing through the DAC-V1, the first thing I noticed was an apparent loudness increase and general clarity. Then there is the more natural 'flow' of the music- an even more relaxed experience than my custom cable. I guess even with a low powered device such as the rendu there is still enough current fluctuation for a cable configuration to exert influence! It is fascinating, kudos to whoever conjured CAT7/8 up as a DC cable.

B.

Powering the microRendu

I’ve now had my microRendu(mR) for a couple of months and really enjoy the sound quality lift it’s given to my system.

Initially I was powering it with the stock 7.5v Meanwell SMPS but quickly upgraded to an iFi iPower 9v which is the recommended option over the Meanwell. It’s well known power supplies can have a positive impact on sound quality and decided to look into the available options.

Having ultimately discounted cheap, although maybe value for money, Chinese manufactured items the Uptone LPS-1, now superseded by the LPS-1.2, was the obvious first choice but I wanted to investigate other options particularly as I favoured a single box, mains powered, solution and +UK£400 seemed a lot of money for a power supply given the iFi iPower is VGVFM.

To cut a long story short, for me, it came down to either a Teddy Pardo 7v or a CIAudio VDC.7 MKII which are both recommended by Sonore for powering the mR. In the end I went for the CIAudio which I imported from Swedish, for EUR349 inc. postage, as there isn’t a dealer in the UK.

The CIAudio is a very neat unit, smaller in size than most other LPSs, excluding Uptone’s. It has a very low noise floor, in the order of a few µV’s. Most importantly it has given a further lift to the system sound quality. There is less sibilance in voices, especially female singers such as Stacey Kent. Also improved stereo imaging, greater detail and emotional involvement with the music.

You could say I’m a very happy bunny.

Dave

Brilliant posted:
charlesphoto posted:

FYI I’m using a meter of bare Supra CAT8 with dc barrel screw connectors, all four pairs in use, between my  microRendu and LPS-1 and the sound is glorious. Wasn’t that impressed by the cheap cable and poE adapter, but this is on another level. Really really good compared to my nice Canare dc starquad with oyaide connectors. Just blows it out of the water. 

CP - thanks for your posts. I have tried a foot of that. Add me to the pleasantly surprised. In my setup (LPS-1.2>ultraRendu) it appears that there is a reduction of the noise floor. Playing through the DAC-V1, the first thing I noticed was an apparent loudness increase and general clarity. Then there is the more natural 'flow' of the music- an even more relaxed experience than my custom cable. I guess even with a low powered device such as the rendu there is still enough current fluctuation for a cable configuration to exert influence! It is fascinating, kudos to whoever conjured CAT7/8 up as a DC cable.

B.

I think the kudos goes to Rob who has instigated a number of ideas - but happy to be corrected.

I agree with your observations.

I think it would be worth playing with a longer length of cable, say 1 meter - be interested in what you hear.

M

Hi Dave,

I wouldn't discount a Chinese R-Core LPSU. The extra current over the 1.1A of the LPS-1 (and I believe 1.2) makes a difference; as long as you are willing to make up an LT3045 or two; I use two to power my ultraRendu. I have an LPS-1 gathering dust.

I would encourage you to try the PoE tweak. From what I have read with the LPS-1 you need to use the Supra CAT8 as mentioned above. Really this tweak needs to be heard.

Which version of the Vortexbox OS are you using?

M

Raspberry Pi 3 -vs- Vortexbox Audiostore Prestige 2

Thinking that the weak point of my system was probably the Raspberry Pi 3 I was using to run Logitech Media Server (LMS) I started looking at various server based solutions, including NUCs and building my own.

As a part of my research I looked at the Small Green Computers SonicTransporter. Vortexbox UK sell there own version called the Audiostore Prestige 2:
https://www.vortexbox.co.uk/Audiostore_ ... 32231.aspx

This together with an SBooster 19v LPSU were installed in my system.

Well there is no doubt that the sound quality was better, and the last remnant of sibilance was banished/much reduced .....BUT, these boxes run their own linux based OS and, as I have just found out, only allow you to mount ONE USB device. So I can see all four 512GB USB sticks on the StarTech ...but, only mount ONE.

I had Qobuz, one USB stick and my Synology NAS set up; .......and, The Prestige had a 1TB SSD onboard.

Is there any difference between the NAS, SSD and the StarTech hosted files? YES.

The StarTech were the most detailed and dynamic .....but this could act against them. SSD was not far behind with the NAS slightly less forthcoming.

If I could get onto the box via SSH I could solve the issue on about two minutes! And, I pretty soon COULD do that ....as I bricked the Prestige 2.

Using the Prestige's interface I updated it, but it showed OS 2.6 was available but reported 2.5 running; so I did a quick search and found a URL to point at - DON'T DO THIS. In the event it updated and sounded a bit better.

The following morning I powered the Prestige down then rebooted it .....and it was dead. Turns out the 2.6 is for sonicTransporters, not Audiostores!

Vortexbox are going to help me get back on track but in the meantime I thought I would have some fun, and so ......

1. I loaded Ubuntu 18.04
Just needed to create a boot USB. This was a minimal install. I then:

1. Loaded LMS;
2. Turned off every service I could; and then
3. Tuned the OS using: https://wiki.linuxaudio.org/wiki/system_configuration.

This tuning script / page is really aimed at people using Linux for audio applications rather than audiophile ones, but it is interesting as a learning tool.

Two days of tuning later and I would say it was probably no better than using the Raspberry Pi. Some things were better, but very much swings and roundabouts.

so,

2. Vortexbox 2.4

Open source version of what is used on sonictransporters. Download the image, create a boot USB and follow instructions:

https://wiki.vortexbox.org/available_images

Set up LMS and .....MUCH better. Pretty old (2015).

The system is built on Fedora and uses dnf for updates. Using this you can get the system up to 2.5, which is what I am currently running:

https://www.vortexbox.org/foru...ases?p=1433#post1433

Even better
. In fact running local files from the StarTech was getting me nearly on par with the best of the Audiostore with Qobuz.

Also, with either of these solutions I could SSH into the box and mount all four USB sticks.


Listening to my system through this system is excellent, and difficult to describe. I THOUGHT I had good separation, resolution and dynamics. The change this has bought, which is undoubtedly built on the rest of the chain, is subtle but pervasive. The soundfield is laid out in front of me and singers and instruments are simply there; I don't mean in the room, although the verisimilitude can be excellent if the recording is, but that the tracks laid down are just open and present to be inspected. Crescendos build and get physically louder. Unless you have heard it these are just words, and I had thought things were excellent, well now they are simply better.

Edge:
My perennial bugbear. Solved? No, not completely .....for some files. The proper Audiostore Prestige OS was better at this, and so will be reloaded once version 2.6 is available.

Some problem files (Pop/Rock) are simply that in my system. I won't forget them, but I am enjoying everything else a lot. Time to just get on listening.

I cannot recommend Martin and Vortexbox UK highly enough.

M

Mr Underhill posted:

Hi Dave,

I wouldn't discount a Chinese R-Core LPSU. The extra current over the 1.1A of the LPS-1 (and I believe 1.2) makes a difference; as long as you are willing to make up an LT3045 or two; I use two to power my ultraRendu. I have an LPS-1 gathering dust.

Had I found a good, resonably priced, LPS-1 I may well have bought it but, having said that, I'm very happy with the CIAudio VDC.7. A plus is it has a mains on/off switch which I believe the LPS-1.2 has.

I did consider a Chinese R-Core LPSU but was put off by having to import from Hong Kong or China. Sweden seemed a safer option.

I would encourage you to try the PoE tweak. From what I have read with the LPS-1 you need to use the Supra CAT8 as mentioned above. Really this tweak needs to be heard.

Is the Supra CAT8 cable available bare, i.e. without connectors, and in short lengths, e.g. 1metre?

Which version of the Vortexbox OS are you using?

I have Vortexbox Nova 2.5 installed.

re: Martin at the Audiostore/Vortexbox, I couldn't agree more. He's been extremely helpful to me. He has suggested the Audiostore Prestige 2 to me but it's probably more than I need. I'm looking at options for upgrading my Microserver 2 though.

Dave

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