This is how NOT to speak to a prospective customer over the phone

French Rooster posted:
Ardbeg10y posted:
Perol posted:
Christopher_M posted:

Whoever said the forum was boring?!

We would be poorer without AM and his views

Lets honour him

Yes, and I miss allante93!

yes, where is alliante93?    he was funny too....

Are you saying we Italians are funny...

I mean, do we make you laugh????  

 

I do not know about other countries but in England there are still Hifi stores that can have a bit of an elitist attitude and depending on your dress code which does not have to be scruffy or inexpensive and also depressingly your accent you will get treated either to the very well dressed, very well spoken and manicured manager or to the underling. 

On the very, very few occasions I have had to venture in to one of these stores I have disliked the experience and left without spending a penny. 

Alternatively I have entered a more 'high street' type hifi store in my builders clothes (yes I'm of those who dresses up to go out but has the arse hanging out of his trousers at work) and been treated extremely well and spent my hard earned.

Depressing as it is for some people there are those of us who don't have much education, work menial jobs, do not wear a suite  or shirt to work but who have big fat wallets. Remember 'Loadsamoney'.

Bob the Builder posted:

I do not know about other countries but in England there are still Hifi stores that can have a bit of an elitist attitude and depending on your dress code which does not have to be scruffy or inexpensive and also depressingly your accent you will get treated either to the very well dressed, very well spoken and manicured manager or to the underling. 

On the very, very few occasions I have had to venture in to one of these stores I have disliked the experience and left without spending a penny. 

Alternatively I have entered a more 'high street' type hifi store in my builders clothes (yes I'm of those who dresses up to go out but has the arse hanging out of his trousers at work) and been treated extremely well and spent my hard earned.

Depressing as it is for some people there are those of us who don't have much education, work menial jobs, do not wear a suite  or shirt to work but who have big fat wallets. Remember 'Loadsamoney'.

Couldn't agree more Bob,

What's this great mystique with dealers not all  - but the types who like to promote themselves as Audio consultant's - demonstrations strictly by appointment.I find it quite cringe worthy.All there doing is selling boxes with massive margins on them.With the climate in the industry at the moment especially with changing buying trends with the younger generation they should lower their sophisticated persona.

If I go to my dentist who I have built up a relationship with I wear what I am comfortable wearing I know the guy is a fully qualified doctor and it's taken in the case of a dentist 8 years study - now that's what I call a consultant not some guy who is selling hifi gear and just wants money off me and wants a sale.

What on earth are you talking about?

Hey ho, stop right there.

All the dealers that I know are very informed and committed to delivering a system in their customer homes that will delight for years and years.

Massive margins? what on earth are you thinking? in Hi-fi? Ever taken a look at Naim's financial statements?

Please take a Look at Louis Vuitton  financial statement and margins, and how they sell that particular Birkin bag to customers.

 

Massimo Bertola posted:
fred47 posted:

Being wheelchair bound, now one takes me serious from the start.

I'm really sorry to read that, but I think  that this is disingenuous behavior on the dealer's part.

In  my pre naim time I wanted to buy a Accuphase amplifier ( and you know how costly they are) when I went into the shop I was told by the salesman " you better look elsewhere, we deal with Highend audio which your not able to buy.". 

Somehow you get used to that kind off reactions.

And there are even today audio support guides to find saying" This equipment should not be used by disabled people without supervision from a parent or caretaker. 

analogmusic posted:

What on earth are you talking about?

Hey ho, stop right there.

All the dealers that I know are very informed and committed to delivering a system in their customer homes that will delight for years and years.

Massive margins? what on earth are you thinking? in Hi-fi? Ever taken a look at Naim's financial statements?

Please take a Look at Louis Vuitton  financial statement and margins, and how they sell that particular Birkin bag to customers.

 

Ordinary margin in audio is roughly between 40-75% typically on the better side of 50-60%

I know for certain a well known turntable manufacturer operated with 65% dealer margin

Margins in clothes & shoe branches are massive, not unusual 70-80% just to put a bit perspective in it

The old general thumb rule, items selling 10 times more than they cost is not allways far off

fred47 posted:
Massimo Bertola posted:
fred47 posted:

Being wheelchair bound, now one takes me serious from the start.

I'm really sorry to read that, but I think  that this is disingenuous behavior on the dealer's part.

In  my pre naim time I wanted to buy a Accuphase amplifier ( and you know how costly they are) when I went into the shop I was told by the salesman " you better look elsewhere, we deal with Highend audio which your not able to buy.". 

Somehow you get used to that kind off reactions.

And there are even today audio support guides to find saying" This equipment should not be used by disabled people without supervision from a parent or caretaker. 

That really is quite unbelievable, and one should not have to 'get used' to such outrageous attitudes.  

Perol posted:
analogmusic posted:

What on earth are you talking about?

Hey ho, stop right there.

All the dealers that I know are very informed and committed to delivering a system in their customer homes that will delight for years and years.

Massive margins? what on earth are you thinking? in Hi-fi? Ever taken a look at Naim's financial statements?

Please take a Look at Louis Vuitton  financial statement and margins, and how they sell that particular Birkin bag to customers.

 

Ordinary margin in audio is roughly between 40-75% typically on the better side of 50-60%

I know for certain a well known turntable manufacturer operated with 65% dealer margin

Margins in clothes & shoe branches are massive, not unusual 70-80% just to put a bit perspective in it

The old general thumb rule, items selling 10 times more than they cost is not allways far off

My understanding is that luxury products such as Prada handbags have an average markup of 1400% of the cost of production. So 50% Hifi does not seem so bad.

French Rooster posted:
nigelb posted:

Someone, please explain to FR, I'm off to bed.

i understood, when the cat is away, the mousses are dancing......    i just commented the photo, it was funny to imagine Richard as a cat in the armchair.....

FR, indeed, there is an English saying, ‘When the cat’s away, the mice will play’

https://idioms.thefreedictiona...C+the+mice+will+play

 

Kiwi cat posted:
Perol posted:
analogmusic posted:

What on earth are you talking about?

Hey ho, stop right there.

All the dealers that I know are very informed and committed to delivering a system in their customer homes that will delight for years and years.

Massive margins? what on earth are you thinking? in Hi-fi? Ever taken a look at Naim's financial statements?

Please take a Look at Louis Vuitton  financial statement and margins, and how they sell that particular Birkin bag to customers.

 

Ordinary margin in audio is roughly between 40-75% typically on the better side of 50-60%

I know for certain a well known turntable manufacturer operated with 65% dealer margin

Margins in clothes & shoe branches are massive, not unusual 70-80% just to put a bit perspective in it

The old general thumb rule, items selling 10 times more than they cost is not allways far off

My understanding is that luxury products such as Prada handbags have an average markup of 1400% of the cost of production. So 50% Hifi does not seem so bad.

That 50% is the supposed dealer margin, not the difference between the cost of production and the selling price, which will be far, far greater. 

As a customer, I think its very important to let the dealer know that I am knowledgeable about hifi, so I always ask how many Dolbys it's got. That shows em!

 

I must acknowledge Mel Smith and Griff Rhys Jones for that one. There was a sketch on one of their programmes about hifi dealers making fun of customers.

Hungryhalibut posted:

I bet Alonso didn’t expect to trigger such a wide ranging discussion. I wonder how he is getting on with his demonstration at Dealer B. I also wonder what he will be wearing to the demonstration!!

Ha! - I was just thinking that yesterday...  I feel bad to be honest, half of the people misunderstood my praise to dealer B, and others thought I was being a self-entitled bell-end.

Anyway... demonstration with dealer B is booked for June 5 (NAC N272 NAP250 to ATCSCM40, 40A, 50 and 50A!) 

For my demonstration,  I'll go during my lunch break, so most likely I'll be wearing a  t-shirt from Primark, a lovely pair of jeans from my local charity and a pair comfy All star-converse from Tesco. I've been practicing my enunciation so I don't sound too foreign and I've googled some exotic travel destinations and make sure I drop some names during the conversation. I usually shower on Sundays but I think I'll have a good scrub the night before. I do have to remember to top-up my leccy metre, I don't want to shower in cold water again. I am sure I will make a good impression and dealer B will think I am a worthy prospective customer worth his time and respect.

Perol posted:
analogmusic posted:

What on earth are you talking about?

Hey ho, stop right there.

All the dealers that I know are very informed and committed to delivering a system in their customer homes that will delight for years and years.

Massive margins? what on earth are you thinking? in Hi-fi? Ever taken a look at Naim's financial statements?

Please take a Look at Louis Vuitton  financial statement and margins, and how they sell that particular Birkin bag to customers.

 

Ordinary margin in audio is roughly between 40-75% typically on the better side of 50-60%

I know for certain a well known turntable manufacturer operated with 65% dealer margin

Margins in clothes & shoe branches are massive, not unusual 70-80% just to put a bit perspective in it

The old general thumb rule, items selling 10 times more than they cost is not allways far off

Those numbers are nonsense. Most Japanese hifi brands hover around the 20% margin and 40% is really hefty margin for the premium brands like Linn. 

Having had access to dealer price lists for several years and ordering new stock, I cannot even imagine where your numbers come from.

40-80%?! Bloody hell, I wish.

james n posted:

Thanks to SJT for reminding me. Just like the Streaming section of the forum 

I wondered if this sketch would pop-up again.  Mel even followed most of the rules we seem to have established.  He is quite well dressed, needed no help being carried into the store, speaks very politely, just didn't do his research.  Naughty, naughty!  A lamb to the slaughter.

SongStream posted:
fred47 posted:
Massimo Bertola posted:
fred47 posted:

Being wheelchair bound, now one takes me serious from the start.

I'm really sorry to read that, but I think  that this is disingenuous behavior on the dealer's part.

In  my pre naim time I wanted to buy a Accuphase amplifier ( and you know how costly they are) when I went into the shop I was told by the salesman " you better look elsewhere, we deal with Highend audio which your not able to buy.". 

Somehow you get used to that kind off reactions.

And there are even today audio support guides to find saying" This equipment should not be used by disabled people without supervision from a parent or caretaker. 

That really is quite unbelievable, and one should not have to 'get used' to such outrageous attitudes.  

Completely agree on the unbelievable – never seen such an attitude here – but if one doesn't learn to get used to most of the world's people being a****les, life becomes a very steep path.

Fred, please just don't give a s*it about similar events.

Quads posted:
French Rooster posted:
Ardbeg10y posted:
Perol posted:
Christopher_M posted:

Whoever said the forum was boring?!

We would be poorer without AM and his views

Lets honour him

Yes, and I miss allante93!

yes, where is alliante93?    he was funny too....

Are you saying we Italians are funny...

I mean, do we make you laugh????  

 

of course, funny and lively....but i wonder where is our member alliante93....

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:
French Rooster posted:
nigelb posted:

Someone, please explain to FR, I'm off to bed.

i understood, when the cat is away, the mousses are dancing......    i just commented the photo, it was funny to imagine Richard as a cat in the armchair.....

FR, indeed, there is an English saying, ‘When the cat’s away, the mice will play’

https://idioms.thefreedictiona...C+the+mice+will+play

 

strictly the same in french language «  quand le chat n’est pas là, les souris dansent « .

Hungryhalibut posted:
Kiwi cat posted:
Perol posted:
analogmusic posted:

What on earth are you talking about?

Hey ho, stop right there.

All the dealers that I know are very informed and committed to delivering a system in their customer homes that will delight for years and years.

Massive margins? what on earth are you thinking? in Hi-fi? Ever taken a look at Naim's financial statements?

Please take a Look at Louis Vuitton  financial statement and margins, and how they sell that particular Birkin bag to customers.

 

Ordinary margin in audio is roughly between 40-75% typically on the better side of 50-60%

I know for certain a well known turntable manufacturer operated with 65% dealer margin

Margins in clothes & shoe branches are massive, not unusual 70-80% just to put a bit perspective in it

The old general thumb rule, items selling 10 times more than they cost is not allways far off

My understanding is that luxury products such as Prada handbags have an average markup of 1400% of the cost of production. So 50% Hifi does not seem so bad.

That 50% is the supposed dealer margin, not the difference between the cost of production and the selling price, which will be far, far greater. 

Neodio, a well known hifi french brand,  decided to sell directly his components.  His flagship cd player, neodio origin, went from 20k to 8k:  no importer and shops margin, just direct price.

French Rooster posted:
Quads posted:
French Rooster posted:
Ardbeg10y posted:
Perol posted:
Christopher_M posted:

Whoever said the forum was boring?!

We would be poorer without AM and his views

Lets honour him

Yes, and I miss allante93!

yes, where is alliante93?    he was funny too....

Are you saying we Italians are funny...

I mean, do we make you laugh????  

 

of course, funny and lively....but i wonder where is our member alliante93....

Yes, I wonder if he finally made it to 'active' with his Isobariks...

“... amateurs and people who know their Hi-Fi”. Doubt many dealers would be in business if they only sold to the latter.  Clothes comment is beyond parody. Judge me on my attire and you’d sell me nothing. As it stands that would be £25,000 you’d done yourself out of.

FWIW I do think the issue here is both dealers and the OP. I welcome the bluntness and honesty of dealer A but such comments on a first contact will likely be misinterpreted so they need to explain and, if they don’t, then the onus is on a punter to ask for clarity. Dealer B is also halfway there. Basic courtesies make a difference. 

My first contact with a long term dealer was closer to B. Whilst not perfect it enabled me to go to the shop; do a dem. and meet the dealer. Far from discourteous he was droll; knowledgeable and relaxed. You do the dem with your music and make up your own mind. Walked from that long term relationship when effectively forced to deal with the other half of a partnership where every casual conversation was an opportunity to try and sell something and the solution to every problem was to try and sell something. The dealer literally became the problem.

My new dealer pitched himself right; was honest from the off about issues with the distance he’d need to travel; involved Naim in solving my issues when they exceeded his knowledge and better than that wants to talk music more than boxes, which is a new experience. Was delighted when the partner of my ex dealer rolled up working for my new dealer. Actually feel guilty I’ve not bought more from them. Indeed next week I’m taking my teenager to dem a Sonos v a Q B and I’m happy to travel 50 miles and give my dealer the money than purchase from Amazon or John Lewis. 

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