Three classic combos!

Hi all Naimes

Having purchased Ovator 400 from my lovely SBLs, I feel I need more Power and want to Upgrade my amp. I Wonder what People think of these Three classic combinations which I consider: 32-hicap-250, 82-hicap-250 or 282-hicap-200 in my system. Source consists of a lovely Lp12 With Armageddon, TP Akula, akito and adikt. Digital is Naim ndac-XPs-SOTM-200 (which is great, btw). I play about 50-50 digital and analogue, but feel that Vinyl is most important to me. I now have a 12 (With improved Boards)-hicap-160 (recaped), sounds lovely, but I am missing Power and some more Insight in to the Music. Please consider what is the best sounding of the Three alternatives, the age-difference is not an issue. All would be recaped of course.

Regards Fred

Original Post
Christopher_M posted:
Fred11 posted:
SOTM

What's this??

Fred, do you have two systems, one analogue and one digital?

Chris

Sotm-200 is a streamer Roon-Integrated. Streams Music into my ndac. Sounds very good for little Money, so its on my digital Source.

F

The 82/250 olive is the one I'd go for, preferably with a Supercap. That said you are developing a curious mix of old and new - are the Ovators really better than the SBLs? They may be better with a 282/250DR, though you'd need a phono stage. 

As vinyl is your priority, a better arm wouldn't go amiss. Maybe an Ekos, or an Aro if you can find one, especially as you have the Armageddon. 

Fred11 posted:
Christopher_M posted:
Fred11 posted:
SOTM

What's this??

Fred, do you have two systems, one analogue and one digital?

Chris

Sotm-200 is a streamer Roon-Integrated.

Thanks. I assumed it was something that fed into a NAP200, which was why I asked about two systems.

Can't help with the amp, though I know which combo I fancy.

C.

Hungryhalibut posted:

The 82/250 olive is the one I'd go for, preferably with a Supercap. That said you are developing a curious mix of old and new - are the Ovators really better than the SBLs? They may be better with a 282/250DR, though you'd need a phono stage. 

As vinyl is your priority, a better arm wouldn't go amiss. Maybe an Ekos, or an Aro if you can find one, especially as you have the Armageddon. 

Thank you for answering.

In my room the Ovator were clearly better. I can see you think its curious to mix different ages, but for me it does not matter as long as it works. I testet out a Nait xs With hicap against my 12-160 With the ovator and the pre-Power was clearly better. It does sound very smooth and Natural, but I do feel that I need to adjust some, after I parted With the Sbls. 250Dr is out of the question for now. And I do not want to touch the deck either. What I wondered about was how 282-200 sounds compared to the others. I worry more about sound-signature, the most bang for the buck and if that will work for me, more than mixing ages and looks.

Fred

Christopher_M posted:
Fred11 posted:
Christopher_M posted:
Fred11 posted:
SOTM

What's this??

Fred, do you have two systems, one analogue and one digital?

Chris

Sotm-200 is a streamer Roon-Integrated.

Thanks. I assumed it was something that fed into a NAP200, which was why I asked about two systems.

Can't help with the amp, though I know which combo I fancy.

C.

Please, tell what you would like, C!
F

Christopher_M posted:

282, HC, 200. In my case the HC would be HC-DR.

C.

PS. Are you the Fred who once wired up the back of his NAC202 wrong? There was a missing link plug, or something?

Please, to not remind me of that shamefull memory: )

If we talk sound, I am a bit worried that a 282-200 will sound to lean. I had a 202-200 for many years (With sbl), and the leanness was what I did not get along With. Thet warmth is probably what I like about the older kit. Perhaps I am an old more of an old School chap, without knowing it. The Ovator to me was more full and organic than the SBLs, that was one of the Things I prefeared With them. Perhaps 82-250 is the way to go? I have read that 82 perhaps is brighte, is that so?
F

The 82 and 282 are little different. The 200 is a leaner sounding power amp than the Olive 250.  I'm not familiar with the Ovators so can't really advise on which would be best, but setting aside the speakers I'd choose a 82/250. I've never found it bright, just really good. 

It's interesting that you say above that you won't touch the deck, when changing the arm is probably the best thing you could do. 

Hi Fred, an interesting system you have there and a classic Naim amp at the heart of it too.

your system is asking for a NAP250 of either chrome bumper or olive variety. If you follow this path, then you will need a power supply for your pre-amp. Others can advise which power supply will suit a NAC12.

I suggest that you do this then pause, as it may be all that you need.

If you decide to change pre-amp, I would go for a 32.5 a 72 or an 82 if you can afford it. All can be fitted with excellent internal phono boards to suit your cartridge (unlike a 282). All work well with a hicap power supply and amazingly well with a supercap power supply (again, funds permitting).

So, get an olive or CB250 and a power supply for the NAC12, then pause. A more modern pre-amp if you wish to later on. Finally, I would fit a better tonearm before changing the NAC12 if it were my choice.

Hope this helps, FT

Hungryhalibut posted:

The 82 and 282 are little different. The 200 is a leaner sounding power amp than the Olive 250.  I'm not familiar with the Ovators so can't really advise on which would be best, but setting aside the speakers I'd choose a 82/250. I've never found it bright, just really good. 

It's interesting that you say above that you won't touch the deck, when changing the arm is probably the best thing you could do. 

Thank you for your answer. Good to hear your experience. You should hear the Ovators and I will consider a tonearm; )

Fred

 

Foot tapper posted:

Hi Fred, an interesting system you have there and a classic Naim amp at the heart of it too.

your system is asking for a NAP250 of either chrome bumper or olive variety. If you follow this path, then you will need a power supply for your pre-amp. Others can advise which power supply will suit a NAC12.

I suggest that you do this then pause, as it may be all that you need.

If you decide to change pre-amp, I would go for a 32.5 a 72 or an 82 if you can afford it. All can be fitted with excellent internal phono boards to suit your cartridge (unlike a 282). All work well with a hicap power supply and amazingly well with a supercap power supply (again, funds permitting).

So, get an olive or CB250 and a power supply for the NAC12, then pause. A more modern pre-amp if you wish to later on. Finally, I would fit a better tonearm before changing the NAC12 if it were my choice.

Hope this helps, FT

Thank you for the excellent and thoughtfull answer, FT! Upgrades are usually better to break down, one step at a time. And the possibility to go both, 82 and 32 is there. I should consider the tone arm, perhaps, first.

Fred11 posted:

Hi all Naimes

Having purchased Ovator 400 from my lovely SBLs, I feel I need more Power and want to Upgrade my amp. I Wonder what People think of these Three classic combinations which I consider: 32-hicap-250, 82-hicap-250 or 282-hicap-200 in my system. Source consists of a lovely Lp12 With Armageddon, TP Akula, akito and adikt. Digital is Naim ndac-XPs-SOTM-200 (which is great, btw). I play about 50-50 digital and analogue, but feel that Vinyl is most important to me. I now have a 12 (With improved Boards)-hicap-160 (recaped), sounds lovely, but I am missing Power and some more Insight in to the Music. Please consider what is the best sounding of the Three alternatives, the age-difference is not an issue. All would be recaped of course.

Regards Fred

Do you want musical insight or power?

If you want more insight in to the music the place to start, as HH suggests, is with the TT.  The "source first" mantra appears to have been challenged by some on the forum but, IMO, when dealing with vinyl based systems it is as true as it ever was.  

You have replaced the Majik level sub-chassis and the next step  would be to replace your PS with a Lingo (assuming you don't want to push the boat out for the Radikal). This would allow you to reap the benefit of a used Ekos 2 (again, assuming you don't want to splurge on an Ekos SE, which would only make sense in the context of a Keel/Radikal set up anyway).  The icing on the cake would then be the wonderful Krystal MC cart.

NOW we're talking insight  

bluedog posted:
Fred11 posted:

Hi all Naimes

Having purchased Ovator 400 from my lovely SBLs, I feel I need more Power and want to Upgrade my amp. I Wonder what People think of these Three classic combinations which I consider: 32-hicap-250, 82-hicap-250 or 282-hicap-200 in my system. Source consists of a lovely Lp12 With Armageddon, TP Akula, akito and adikt. Digital is Naim ndac-XPs-SOTM-200 (which is great, btw). I play about 50-50 digital and analogue, but feel that Vinyl is most important to me. I now have a 12 (With improved Boards)-hicap-160 (recaped), sounds lovely, but I am missing Power and some more Insight in to the Music. Please consider what is the best sounding of the Three alternatives, the age-difference is not an issue. All would be recaped of course.

Regards Fred

Do you want musical insight or power?

If you want more insight in to the music the place to start, as HH suggests, is with the TT.  The "source first" mantra appears to have been challenged by some on the forum but, IMO, when dealing with vinyl based systems it is as true as it ever was.  

You have replaced the Majik level sub-chassis and the next step  would be to replace your PS with a Lingo (assuming you don't want to push the boat out for the Radikal). This would allow you to reap the benefit of a used Ekos 2 (again, assuming you don't want to splurge on an Ekos SE, which would only make sense in the context of a Keel/Radikal set up anyway).  The icing on the cake would then be the wonderful Krystal MC cart.

NOW we're talking insight  

Thank you, Bluedog. I think I know the steps from inside and out (the Linn way). I also have trampoline, cirkus, armageddon, tiger paw Akula (great, better than Kore) and tiger paw tranquility (great). The Akito is Akurate level and I really like the bouncy style of adikt. The upgrades was done quite recently, so I do not want start to early, since there is no roof upgrading the lp12. But source first is a good principle. I think my steps would then be; 1. 250 since I need some more power as well 2. Aro/ekos 2. 3 82.

fred

Hungryhalibut posted:

He's already got an Armageddon, far nicer than the Lingo. That's why I suggested an Aro or Ekos. 

Fred, I'm going to disappoint you by not trying the Ovators, as I really don't fancy downgrading at the moment. 

No disappointment: ) Did you have Sl2? Wonder how Ovator would compare in 272-250 context? 

F

Hungryhalibut posted:

The S400 would be far too big for my room, and won't work against the wall, so they are a non runner for me. 

I understand. I am missing a god, hard wall for Sbls as well, so the Orators fits me better. The room sets som limits. I bet the SL2s are lovely! 

Fred

Bob the Builder posted:

Hi Fred I have 282/DTC/200 system with an LP12 and it sounds pretty good to me I have not heard a Black box 250 but have had an Olive 250 and preferred the 200 it drives Dynaudio X32's which at 4ohms are supposedly a difficult load and the 200 has no problem with them.

Nice system! 
In what way did you prefer the 200 over the 250?
Fred

Christopher_M posted:

Fred, if records are your main thing then Radikal-ise the Sondek and ditch amp ideas. No more link plug confusion that way   ;-)

C.

Nice thought. But I want to better digital as well... I saw a nice Ekos 2 for around 900 quid on eBay...

Fred11 posted:
Bob the Builder posted:

Hi Fred I have 282/DTC/200 system with an LP12 and it sounds pretty good to me I have not heard a Black box 250 but have had an Olive 250 and preferred the 200 it drives Dynaudio X32's which at 4ohms are supposedly a difficult load and the 200 has no problem with them.

Nice system! 
In what way did you prefer the 200 over the 250?
Fred

I'm talking non DR Olive 250 here anyway the 200 was just easier to listen to if that makes sense, possibly an Olive 82/250 would sound better or even a 282/250.2 if money isn't an issue Fred then 282/250DR has to be the way to go.

Hi all,

I came over a Nice 250.2 and slotted that into the system. Also changed the nac 12 for a good priced 32.5 With improved Boards. It all sounds very good. The 250.2 has added details, warmth and Power. Bass is much deeper and fuller.  I like its full presentation, but have experienced how important the pre-amp is and Wonder if the 32.5 is a bit of a bottelneck and that an 82/282 would Balance everything out better, ad prat and insight.  My concern is the Balance of the system. The Ovator and 250.2 feels darker than, say SBLs and 200. Some has written that a 82 can be a bit tiring, and I do not want that either...

regards
Fred

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