Time for a change??

Oohh PB,

So many upgrades to offer and most of them expensive!😩

A lovely, shiny, Perspex turntable, cables made of lovingly stroked unobtainium, an air bed suspension table for sensitive components, DR amplifier upgrades (if not Statement pre-amp), the list goes on.

However, speakers are your priority for understandable reasons. Two 10 inch bass drivers per speaker takes a bit of controlling. ART do a nice speaker with an Alnico tweeter and 8 inch bass driver that would be easier to control but you’ve heard that one recently.

Kudos Titan 808 are already on your audition list. Magico S5 deserve to be on your list too. I still like the ART Alnico 12 but our room is a bit small for them. It’s a surprisingly short list.

Then do DR the NAP500. It’s a good thing!

Enjoy the journey and take your time, It’s a fun ride so long as you don’t rush it.

Best regards, FT

PB 

Just over a year ago I audition four speakers ( Wilson Sabrina.Vivid Giya 4, B&W 800 D3,Kudos 808 ).Sabrina didn’t make it to the home audition but could live happily with any of the other three. So a few more to add to your shortlist and hope you find the right speakers.

Clive B posted:

I am keeping eyes and ears open for new speakers just in case anything happens to my NBLs, which I like very much. Two speakers I've heard and enjoyed (and have made it onto my reserve list) are the Kudos 707 and the PMC Fact 12, although I also have a nagging thought that my next speaker purchase ought to be for something smaller, possibly stand mounted. I hope I'm not forced to confront this challenge anytime soon.

NBL's were beautiful speakers Clive, I had the pleasure of a demonstration many years ago when I had the CDS3, 252 and 300 and probably needed a better system for them, its a shame there is nothing like them now as I would be very tempted for another listen.

tonym posted:

Hi PB, I'm with the others re. getting the DR upgrades, and in the order suggested by DB. However, I respect and understand your desire to change speakers. Obvious candidates are the Kudos 808s, but although I've yet to hear a pair myself I'd be considering Magicos.

I have had a brief look at Magico's but not sure where to hear them, the only reservation is the price of the ones I would be interested in 

Adam Zielinski posted:

I’ve heard trully amazing speakers at last year’s Audio show in Warsaw. Austrian made Trenner & Friedl. 
Should be a nice upgrade from your ARTs.

All the best,

Adam

Not a brand I have any knowledge about Adam, I will have a look on the internet. The problems going to be, where am I going to audition a pair.

JMB posted:

PB, I have a 555/552/500 system all DR with the full SL loom. I recently added the new Spendor Classic 200. Very happy with my system so recommend you give the Spendors a listen.

An interesting recommendation, its been a while since I last heard a pair of Spendors, not sure I have ever liked their presentation though.

Foot tapper posted:

Oohh PB,

So many upgrades to offer and most of them expensive!😩

A lovely, shiny, Perspex turntable, cables made of lovingly stroked unobtainium, an air bed suspension table for sensitive components, DR amplifier upgrades (if not Statement pre-amp), the list goes on.

However, speakers are your priority for understandable reasons. Two 10 inch bass drivers per speaker takes a bit of controlling. ART do a nice speaker with an Alnico tweeter and 8 inch bass driver that would be easier to control but you’ve heard that one recently.

Kudos Titan 808 are already on your audition list. Magico S5 deserve to be on your list too. I still like the ART Alnico 12 but our room is a bit small for them. It’s a surprisingly short list.

Then do DR the NAP500. It’s a good thing!

Enjoy the journey and take your time, It’s a fun ride so long as you don’t rush it.

Best regards, FT

As lovely as the Alnico's are Ian, they are not for me, I have had the pleasure of the big Alnico references at home and they are not a speaker I can live with long term. 

 

Its going to be a journey of a few steps, firstly the speakers, then the amps and then the Perspex shiny turntable may be on the shopping list. The list could go on for a very long time 

 

Kind regards

 

PB

 

 

ayap1 posted:

PB 

Just over a year ago I audition four speakers ( Wilson Sabrina.Vivid Giya 4, B&W 800 D3,Kudos 808 ).Sabrina didn’t make it to the home audition but could live happily with any of the other three. So a few more to add to your shortlist and hope you find the right speakers.

I have never heard a pair of Wilsons I would like to take home for an audition, likewise with the B&W's.  I am certainly prepared to have a look at the Vivids 

Nigel

B+W may not be for you, but I'd still recommend (if you haven't already done so) having a listen to the new D3 versions whose sound presentation has moved on quite a bit from the D2's.  The similarity in appearance may be a bigger obstacle for some...

Peter

PS I wonder how far this thread has potential to run.....!!

Huge posted:
Monster posted:

<snip> You can’t beat JBL compression drivers.

I think a sledgehammer would do the job quite well!  

Followed by roasting a baby seal over an open fire  

 

I recall a rather poor showing by JBL at Alistair's open day last year, I am sure some love them but they lacked any kind of detail and dynamics for my liking.

northpole posted:

Nigel

B+W may not be for you, but I'd still recommend (if you haven't already done so) having a listen to the new D3 versions whose sound presentation has moved on quite a bit from the D2's.  The similarity in appearance may be a bigger obstacle for some...

Peter

PS I wonder how far this thread has potential to run.....!!

It won't run as long as the first thread I ran Peter, the forum is very different from then.  If I get the chance I will have a look at the new D3's, thanks for the recommendation Peter.


I don’t know what speakers you have other than they are ARTs and have 10” drivers (twin?), but I don’t know their character, and other than mentioned already in this thread I don’t know what speakers you auditioned when last you looked. So, this may or may not suit: when I did some auditioning a couple of years ago the best speakers that I heard (to my ears) were the PMC MB2SEs. I also listened to Fact 12s, which have already been mentioned, and they were pretty decent, and I felt that being relatively small speakers those could be a good choice if I ever was unfortunate enough to have to downsize my listening room. The MB2SE was distinctly better.

But the MB2s do need a bit of physical space to accommodate, and a possible consideration is 58kg needing lifting on/off stands if they need moving for any reason (yes, they’re stand mounters!). 

 

Polarbear posted:
Huge posted:
Monster posted:

<snip> You can’t beat JBL compression drivers.

I think a sledgehammer would do the job quite well!  

Followed by roasting a baby seal over an open fire  

 

I recall a rather poor showing by JBL at Alistair's open day last year, I am sure some love them but they lacked any kind of detail and dynamics for my liking.

Yes that as also my disappointment, was looking forward to hear the Levinson amps....the JBL speakers were very ordinary.

Innocent Bystander posted:

I don’t know what speakers you have other than they are ARTs and have 10” drivers (twin?), but I don’t know their character, and other than mentioned already in this thread I don’t know what speakers you auditioned when last you looked. So, this may or may not suit: when I did some auditioning a couple of years ago the best speakers that I heard (to my ears) were the PMC MB2SEs. I also listened to Fact 12s, which have already been mentioned, and they were pretty decent, and I felt that being relatively small speakers those could be a good choice if I ever was unfortunate enough to have to downsize my listening room. The MB2SE was distinctly better.

But the MB2s do need a bit of physical space to accommodate, and a possible consideration is 58kg needing lifting on/off stands if they need moving for any reason (yes, they’re stand mounters!). 

 

Seconded. The MB2SE's are truly special.

Innocent Bystander posted:

I don’t know what speakers you have other than they are ARTs and have 10” drivers (twin?), but I don’t know their character, and other than mentioned already in this thread I don’t know what speakers you auditioned when last you looked. So, this may or may not suit: when I did some auditioning a couple of years ago the best speakers that I heard (to my ears) were the PMC MB2SEs. I also listened to Fact 12s, which have already been mentioned, and they were pretty decent, and I felt that being relatively small speakers those could be a good choice if I ever was unfortunate enough to have to downsize my listening room. The MB2SE was distinctly better.

But the MB2s do need a bit of physical space to accommodate, and a possible consideration is 58kg needing lifting on/off stands if they need moving for any reason (yes, they’re stand mounters!). 

 

Blimey, how to describe the ART's, five foot high 110 Kg, three way with twin 10" bass units, huge soundstage with plenty of slam. Great dynamics and detail with plenty of transparency.

I have owned Naim SL2's Neat MF9's ART Emotions and ART Deco's.  I have auditioned Naim NBL's, ATC 150's Eben X3's and X4's, Kudos 88 at home, have listened to endless other speakers at various shops and shows and many forum members houses. 

 

Speakers that stand out to me, the Neat MF9's, huge fond memories,  Jo Silva's Martens, Tony's DBL's,  Naim NBL's, the Titan 808's and 707's, this probably gives an indication of the presentation I like.

Gazza posted:
Polarbear posted:
Huge posted:
Monster posted:

<snip> You can’t beat JBL compression drivers.

I think a sledgehammer would do the job quite well!  

Followed by roasting a baby seal over an open fire  

 

I recall a rather poor showing by JBL at Alistair's open day last year, I am sure some love them but they lacked any kind of detail and dynamics for my liking.

Yes that as also my disappointment, was looking forward to hear the Levinson amps....the JBL speakers were very ordinary.

That's a very polite way of saying it 

Polarbear posted:
Innocent Bystander posted:

I don’t know what speakers you have other than they are ARTs and have 10” drivers (twin?), but I don’t know their character, and other than mentioned already in this thread I don’t know what speakers you auditioned when last you looked. So, this may or may not suit: when I did some auditioning a couple of years ago the best speakers that I heard (to my ears) were the PMC MB2SEs. I also listened to Fact 12s, which have already been mentioned, and they were pretty decent, and I felt that being relatively small speakers those could be a good choice if I ever was unfortunate enough to have to downsize my listening room. The MB2SE was distinctly better.

But the MB2s do need a bit of physical space to accommodate, and a possible consideration is 58kg needing lifting on/off stands if they need moving for any reason (yes, they’re stand mounters!). 

 

Blimey, how to describe the ART's, five foot high 110 Kg, three way with twin 10" bass units, huge soundstage with plenty of slam. Great dynamics and detail with plenty of transparency.

I have owned Naim SL2's Neat MF9's ART Emotions and ART Deco's.  I have auditioned Naim NBL's, ATC 150's Eben X3's and X4's, Kudos 88 at home, have listened to endless other speakers at various shops and shows and many forum members houses. 

 

Speakers that stand out to me, the Neat MF9's, huge fond memories,  Jo Silva's Martens, Tony's DBL's,  Naim NBL's, the Titan 808's and 707's, this probably gives an indication of the presentation I like.

Conspicuous by their absence, can I then suggest the MB2s as something worth hearing. (They do have higher models too, but maybe going a bit extreme domestically - though maybe not from your description of your ARTs.)

Innocent Bystander posted:
Polarbear posted:
Innocent Bystander posted:

I don’t know what speakers you have other than they are ARTs and have 10” drivers (twin?), but I don’t know their character, and other than mentioned already in this thread I don’t know what speakers you auditioned when last you looked. So, this may or may not suit: when I did some auditioning a couple of years ago the best speakers that I heard (to my ears) were the PMC MB2SEs. I also listened to Fact 12s, which have already been mentioned, and they were pretty decent, and I felt that being relatively small speakers those could be a good choice if I ever was unfortunate enough to have to downsize my listening room. The MB2SE was distinctly better.

But the MB2s do need a bit of physical space to accommodate, and a possible consideration is 58kg needing lifting on/off stands if they need moving for any reason (yes, they’re stand mounters!). 

 

Blimey, how to describe the ART's, five foot high 110 Kg, three way with twin 10" bass units, huge soundstage with plenty of slam. Great dynamics and detail with plenty of transparency.

I have owned Naim SL2's Neat MF9's ART Emotions and ART Deco's.  I have auditioned Naim NBL's, ATC 150's Eben X3's and X4's, Kudos 88 at home, have listened to endless other speakers at various shops and shows and many forum members houses. 

 

Speakers that stand out to me, the Neat MF9's, huge fond memories,  Jo Silva's Martens, Tony's DBL's,  Naim NBL's, the Titan 808's and 707's, this probably gives an indication of the presentation I like.

Conspicuous by their absence, can I then suggest the MB2s as something worth hearing. (They do have higher models too, but maybe going a bit extreme domestically - though maybe not from your description of your ARTs.)

They fall in the category of great systems we have heard. Last year, Karen and I had the pleasure of Vertere's demo room for the afternoon. We had all three Vertere TT's with a full stack of FM Accoustic amps and PMC MB2's, a truely amazing sound and confirmation that the top Vertere TT and reference arm is possibly the best front end money can buy. If I went for the PMC's I would have to go for the rest of the system as well, possibly just above £250K which is a tad over budget 

As a relatively new member of the forum I am not as aware of the journey PB has so far enjoyed however, some of the speakers being mentioned in the posts here figure as possible options on my list of speakers when the time for the next upgrade comes (Kudos 707, for example).

Perhaps embarrassingly i was previously unaware of ART as a brand, maybe you could share a little more of your experiences please, as information seems a little sparse on them?

Thanks

Monster posted:
Huge posted:
Monster posted:

<snip> You can’t beat JBL compression drivers.

I think a sledgehammer would do the job quite well!  

With such a stupid comment like that, the best use for a sledgehammer might be up side your head.

Oh dear, no sense of humour?...  Really?

And then followed by incitement to violence?   

Don't worry I'm not going to take offence (my garden has a wall round it so I don't really need a fence!).

Huge posted:
Monster posted:
Huge posted:
Monster posted:

<snip> You can’t beat JBL compression drivers.

I think a sledgehammer would do the job quite well!  

With such a stupid comment like that, the best use for a sledgehammer might be up side your head.

Oh dear, no sense of humour?...  Really?

And then followed by incitement to violence?   

Don't worry I'm not going to take offence (my garden has a wall round it so I don't really need a fence!).

Well he/she is called Monster!

Hi PB,

like CT I haven’t followed your road to the ARTs and therefore don’t know which models you tried back then. What I do know is, that with sources and amplifiers like yours, I would lend an ear to Franco Serblins Ktema. Just to see (hear) how good his last design is. I regard him as one of the few special designers.

Anyway, good  luck for your search!

Innocent Bystander posted:

Now, I have a similar less than enamoured view of JBL sound qualityy based on what I have heard - though I admit that is not their latest systems, but can I suggest a halt before this becomes a personal slanging match. We all have different tastes, after all.

Both my posts were actually purely in humour - I would have thought the  (eek) graemlin would have been enough to indicate that.

Since I use Spendor speakers, just maybe I should perhaps take violent umbrage anytime anyone refers to them with the description "Pipe & Slippers"?
True, I sometimes wear slippers but the pipe is definitely not appropriate (even if most people here don't know why!) and could even be considered quite insulting.

But no, I'm not going to do that: because just as my post wasn't intended as an insult to anyone here, that description would not intended as an insult to me.

Huge posted:
Innocent Bystander posted:

Now, I have a similar less than enamoured view of JBL sound qualityy based on what I have heard - though I admit that is not their latest systems, but can I suggest a halt before this becomes a personal slanging match. We all have different tastes, after all.

Both my posts were actually purely in humour - I would have thought the  (eek) graemlin would have been enough to indicate that.

 

I did understood and recognise that, and had no issue with it  - but something in the tone of what preceeded made me envisionia a rather vehement and possibly personal attack as the response...

ct posted:

As a relatively new member of the forum I am not as aware of the journey PB has so far enjoyed however, some of the speakers being mentioned in the posts here figure as possible options on my list of speakers when the time for the next upgrade comes (Kudos 707, for example).

Perhaps embarrassingly i was previously unaware of ART as a brand, maybe you could share a little more of your experiences please, as information seems a little sparse on them?

Thanks

Hi Ct, you can always do a search on here and find my previous threads about my speaker choices. 

Basically I came across ART back in around 2005 when I first heard the ART Emotions. They are a large two way speaker, highly transparent and musical. I used them with my CDS3 500 and back then, two Nap 500’s.  I really enjoyed the ART Emotions but hankered for a larger speaker, then ART introduced the Deco 20’s a much large4 three way speaker which I am still using. 

 

You wont find much information on them on the net but there are a few users who share their experiences on the forums. They also have the ART Alnico’s which you can find on their website.

 

regards

 

PB

Claus-Thoegersen posted:

Raidho one of the bigger models. Expensive but in many ways following Naim  ideas about what is important in replay. Can be too much, but should I change from Audiovector for some reason Raidho would be on the list of speakers I would check out.

They are the newer versions of the Ebens which I had here around 12 years ago. I can see the appeal but they are not something I want to revisit but thanks for the recommendation.

yeti42 posted:

I heard the Ktemas at a show a couple of years ago and they were the most enjoyable I heard all day, however, they only played jazz and some vocal music, intriguing though, can you still buy them?

Not something that may suit my love for hard rock and heavy mental then?  

Polarbear posted:
yeti42 posted:

I heard the Ktemas at a show a couple of years ago and they were the most enjoyable I heard all day, however, they only played jazz and some vocal music, intriguing though, can you still buy them?

Not something that may suit my love for hard rock and heavy mental then?  

That much is unknown, with a 552/500 giving them what for they might be up to it. It was a Guildford audio/absolute sounds show and it was the room that sounded like music. I went with some friends, one of whom managed to get some AC/DC played on the airforce 2 with d’agostinos and wilson and cleared the room apparently, I missed that alas.

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