Tour De France 2018

joerand posted:
Bruce Woodhouse posted:

I have no doubt that if Thomas is still in yellow in the third week he'll be sacrificed for Froome's benefit. I am not hearing or seeing anything to suggest otherwise. 

Bruce, (or any one else) any substantial information to think this will be the case? Do you suppose there's a gentleman's agreement within the team? Race courtesy? Possibly even written into G's contract?

If so, this is where I depart from so-called 'standards'. It's a race after all and I want to see the best rider win. I acknowledge the team has to work together, but Sky (at this point, much racing to come) seems strong enough to allow G and Froome to duke it out if positioned to do so near the end. I'd just hate to see G hand the race to Froome if he's capable of beating him 

Well the principles of team leadership in cycle races are well known and constantly repeated by G and Froome every time they are interviewed this week.  Lets face it the strongest rider may not always win if the team judges that one must protect and be 'sacrificed' for a chosen leader and I find it hard to believe that unless Froome starts to waver or get ill they will take the team leadership away from him. There is of course the example of Wiggins, where many think Froome was held back because it had been decided by Sky it was Wiggins Tour. Nobody could doubt that G deserves success, but in Sky's eyes does he deserve it more than Froome going for 5 wins, holding Giro and Vuelta too?

It is a team as well as an individual sport. One of the fascinations of the event for me.

I don't think they will consciously have to hold G back. He has less TT ability and will likely lose time on that stage, also less pedigree over 3 week tours so he may run out of gas whereas Froome generally gets stronger in the last week. If all the climbing domestiques remain in place then both can be protected most of the way through the tough stages; what may be interesting is if they drop team mates off earlier in climbs then we will see who leads and who is being protected at the front.

I think the situation is analagous to a stage where you lob a good rider up the road in the breakaway. If the break stays away they are in a great position or they slowly get reeled in and provide cover and help to the main rider in the peloton as they come up behind.

What seems a shame to me is that other teams know how Sky will ride and yet seem reluctant to either mimic or challenge it. Just lack of depth in recruitment? It almost seems that other big hitters are settling for maybe a podium or just stage wins. Do they believe they can actually beat Sky?

Bruce

General Classification after Stage 12

  
1GERAINT THOMAS8TEAM SKY49H 24' 43''-B : 23''-
2CHRIS FROOME1TEAM SKY49H 26' 22''+ 00H 01' 39''B : 4''-
3TOM DUMOULIN32TEAM SUNWEB49H 26' 33''+ 00H 01' 50''B : 12''P : 00' 20''
4VINCENZO NIBALI51BAHRAIN - MERIDA49H 27' 20''+ 00H 02' 37''--
5PRIMOŽ ROGLIC166TEAM LOTTO NL - JUMBO49H 27' 29''+ 00H 02' 46''--
6ROMAIN BARDET21AG2R LA MONDIALE49H 27' 50''+ 00H 03' 07''B : 4''-
7MIKEL LANDA MEANA75MOVISTAR TEAM49H 27' 56''+ 00H 03' 13''--
8STEVEN KRUIJSWIJK161TEAM LOTTO NL - JUMBO49H 28' 26''+ 00H 03' 43''--
9NAIRO QUINTANA71MOVISTAR TEAM49H 28' 56''+ 00H 04' 13''--
10DANIEL MARTIN91UAE TEAM EMIRATES49H 29' 54''+ 00H 05' 11''B : 11''-

 

 

Friday 20th July - Stage 13

 

Bruce Woodhouse posted:

I think the situation is analagous to a stage where you lob a good rider up the road in the breakaway. If the break stays away they are in a great position or they slowly get reeled in and provide cover and help to the main rider in the peloton as they come up behind.

 

For some years now, Team Sky [and others] have been using power meter technologies which provide critically useful telemetry, and when combined with modern communication between team members and support vehicles, the team know relatively the most efficient output [and speed] they need to use, not only to catch the breakaway before the end of the race stage but to retain strength enough in the team leader(s) to pass and contest the stage win. Power meter telemetry if used properly can relatively and fairly instantly prevent unnecessary wastage of energy, prevent over exertion, and this will also help aid a more full recovery from one day to next.

It does seem that Team Sky riders work together with diligence, and frequently let a breakaway go, presumably knowing they will have a good odds chance of catching and passing 'burnt out breakaway riders' within a few kilometres to go, and this often seems to play out regardless if flat, hilly or mountainous stages.

The UCI could ban the use of power meters to level the playing field, but all teams have the option of using this technology so it is already fair in that respect.

Debs

Fabio 1 posted:

Ciao Vincenzo.

The Italian was transported to a hospital in Grenoble for further scans after X-rays taken after the finish of the stage were inconclusive but his team suspected a fractured vertebra because of the pain he was experiencing. Doctors later confirmed that Nibali had fractured his T10 vertebra.

 

That's a great pity, i always enjoy watching Nibali's totally smooth and efficient riding style,  and so unlike Froomey's : D

A daft way to get taken out, bad marshalling and non existent policing of unruly fans : (

Debs

Up late last night watching Stage 12 which I had taped and it was tremendous! Two incredibly tough and fantastic stages over the past couple of days and really enjoying this year's race. Although it is traditional to allow the fans to be close to the race action, I do not know how the riders endure the gauntlet on the climb of Alpe d'Huez. The flairs in particular seemed harsh for the riders to have to breath in the smoke when their bodies are screaming for oxygen. And for a person that has rode for hours and be in contention at the end to be knocked down by a fan has to heartbreaking for the rider. It is traditional but to have an outcome directly impacted by fan behavior crosses a line that needs to be addressed. (JMHO)......

Skye is looking invincible over the past couple of days, a lot of discipline and carrying out their plan to perfection. The 'G' man is looking to be impossible to hold back and invincible! 

I am looking forward to watching Stage 13 later today!

naim_nymph posted:

The UCI could ban the use of power meters to level the playing field, but all teams have the option of using this technology so it is already fair in that respect.

Debs

The UCI tried to level the field by reducing team sizes from nine to eight this year. Whilst I don't, as yet at least, see the need to ban power meters, I still maintain that the best way to invigorate the grand tours would be to ban race radios. That way the only way teams could work out how far ahead the breakaway was would be through the information presented on the motorcycle boards.

naim_nymph posted:
Fabio 1 posted:

Ciao Vincenzo.

The Italian was transported to a hospital in Grenoble for further scans after X-rays taken after the finish of the stage were inconclusive but his team suspected a fractured vertebra because of the pain he was experiencing. Doctors later confirmed that Nibali had fractured his T10 vertebra.

 

That's a great pity, i always enjoy watching Nibali's totally smooth and efficient riding style,  and so unlike Froomey's : D

A daft way to get taken out, bad marshalling and non existent policing of unruly fans : (

Debs

Froome’s riding style is outstanding.

ynwa250505 posted:

Why not ban motorcycle boards too? In fact why not limit upper speeds? 

Highly rhetorical and makes little constructive sense with regard to the use of advanced technology permitted during the race.

ynwa250505 posted:

Froome is team leader - his palmares puts Thomas in the shade. 

I really don't see where Froome's palmares, or G's for that matter, should have any consequence on the outcome of the race I'm currently watching. Is this a true contest or a spectacle of propriety? Where else would you see riders drink champagne then "race" for the finale as if the winner was not predetermined? 

Clive B posted:
naim_nymph posted:

The UCI could ban the use of power meters to level the playing field, but all teams have the option of using this technology so it is already fair in that respect.

Debs

The UCI tried to level the field by reducing team sizes from nine to eight this year. Whilst I don't, as yet at least, see the need to ban power meters, I still maintain that the best way to invigorate the grand tours would be to ban race radios. That way the only way teams could work out how far ahead the breakaway was would be through the information presented on the motorcycle boards.

Not sure I'd be confident that motorcycle boards can be used entirely safely nowadays. The TV bikes seems to be pretty scary!

In principle I do like the idea of a more spontaneous structure to racing. What about ensuring only one rider per team has the radio? If they lose touch with that individual it will throw things up in the air a bit. You'd have to chose if you wanted that rider in the break or not etc. Just a thought.

As for Joe's comments I think the palmares of Froome vs G does matter. Which one would you invest in as most likely to deliver over 3 weeks? 

Bruce

Peter Sagan is on fire at the moment.He just looks so hungry for Green Jersey points always putting effort into breakaways he's in.Wow what a Tour already.The Green Jersey....3 Stage wins....3 World Champions Jerseys....6 Times Slovakian National Road Race Champion.Always humble in defeat a showman but in a funny way.He's never arrogant.He just gives 100 % on the bike.

http://e2.365dm.com/18/07/16-9/20/skysports-peter-sagan-tour-de-france_4367245.jpg?20180720163744

Tabby cat posted:

Peter Sagan is on fire at the moment.He just looks so hungry for Green Jersey points always putting effort into breakaways he's in.Wow what a Tour already.The Green Jersey....3 Stage wins....3 World Champions Jerseys....6 Times Slovakian National Road Race Champion.Always humble in defeat a showman but in a funny way.He's never arrogant.He just gives 100 % on the bike.

http://e2.365dm.com/18/07/16-9/20/skysports-peter-sagan-tour-de-france_4367245.jpg?20180720163744

Not really a stage for him today (you would think). But instead of taking it easy, he toughs it out on the climbs to stay with the break, and then gives 100% in the finale (which featured 3km at greater than 10% - hardly the place for a "sprinter") for 4th place. He really is a bike racer. Never just phones it in.

Bruce Woodhouse posted:

As for Joe's comments I think the palmares of Froome vs G does matter. Which one would you invest in as most likely to deliver over 3 weeks? 

The one that currently has the best legs of course, regardless of the size of their trophy case. For me it's all about the here-and-now, and not history (maybe an American ideology). I acknowledge that Froome is safely biding his time behind to assert himself in the Pyrenees. I guess part of me wishes G and F were on different teams so we could see a real race between the two best contenders. Then again, I suppose G signed-up to be F's bitch and prescripts need be conceded.

As a highly competitive individual in sport, I have to wonder how G could relegate if he feels he's capable of more. OTOH, maybe G is riding out his legs to position Froome and will fade from the podium? 

joerand posted:
 

As a highly competitive individual in sport, I have to wonder how G could relegate if he feels he's capable of more. OTOH, maybe G is riding out his legs to position Froome and will fade from the podium? 

Froomey is rated as being more suited to riding up steeper Pyrenees gradients compared to G who is rated being better in the Alps. Froomey has often shown to excel on the last week of a grand tour. Froomey is very fast in time trials. This means Froomey remains the favourite to win this yeas tour. I expect Froomey, G, + Team Sky are happily  keeping an open mind, it's clearly an advantage to keep some pressure off Froomey with G in yellow for time being.

As much as i'd dearly love to see the first Welshman win the TdF this year, i won't be surprised if Froomey pulls some magnificent performances out of the bag next week, and goes on the win his 5th : /

Debs

Saturday  21st July - Stage 14 finish results:

    
1OMAR FRAILE MATARRANZ122ASTANA PRO TEAM04H 41' 57''-B : 10''-
2JULIAN ALAPHILIPPE101QUICK - STEP FLOORS04H 42' 03''+ 00H 00' 06''B : 6''-
3JASPER STUYVEN198TREK - SEGAFREDO04H 42' 03''+ 00H 00' 06''B : 4''-
4PETER SAGAN111BORA - HANSGROHE04H 42' 09''+ 00H 00' 12''--
5DAMIANO CARUSO83BMC RACING TEAM04H 42' 14''+ 00H 00' 17''--

 

Must admit an impressive result for Sagan, incredible how he can climb with his build and body weigh, ...he could bend iron bars with that muscle around his shoulders and arms : /

Overall an exciting stage, about time we had breakaway evade the capture of the mighty Team Sky : )

Debs

Enjoyed the stage yesterday, and agree with the comments regarding Peter Sagan above, the man is an absolute marvel and showman. Two races for the price of one on Stage 14, the 'G' man continues to demonstrate how strong he is and comments after the race "This is the first time I've really gone for GC over three weeks."  ......and Froome had a liquid thrown in his face on the final climb from another classless race fan.

Love the race, one mistake or mechanical failure by a top contender and their advantage can evaporate in a heartbeat. ......and poor Dan Martin gets a flat tire right before the climb, incredible bad luck for him on this years tour.

Looking forward to today's race!

 

 
4h 25' 52''
+ 00' 00''
+ 00' 02''
+ 00' 29''
+ 00' 34''
+ 00' 34''
+ 00' 34''
 + 00' 37''

 

Gianni Moscon disqualified from Tour de France:

The Italian rider was excluded from the Tour after the race jury reviewed footage of the incident following the stage. The images show Moscon turning and aiming a blow at Gesbert, who stayed upright on his bike.

This is the first year in which the Tour has had a video commissaire, who observes proceedings on television monitors in a truck at the finish rather than in a car or motorbike within the race.

News of Moscon’s expulsion was formally confirmed when the official stage results began to be distributed shortly after 7.30 Sunday evening.

The commissaires excluded Moscon, citing article 12.1040.30.1 of the UCI regulations, which covers “acts of violence among riders” and allows for disqualification in the event of “particular serious aggression.”

Brailsford appears to have given up being nice (did he ever try?). He seems to have adopted the position of some football managers; "nobody likes us and we don't care". I suspect it is partly deliberate. I don't want this thread to become a debate about Sky and doping (because, lets be honest none of us actually know) but although I don't think all is rosy in the Sky garden and I'm no lover of their style and methods I can look around the peleton and see teams and individuals with very many questions to answer (and proven doping violations)  that are getting an easy ride. Sky are getting the anger for a bunch or reasons, but envy is surely one of them.

The direct quote from Brailsford is below, he does have a point that their reception in France seems especially unpleasant, compared to Giro/Vuelta.

https://www.independent.co.uk/...-watch-a8459791.html

The French press are pretty malign and I get the impression that they may at least in part be responsible for some of the increasing hostility on the roads. Newspapers describing Sky as a 'a snake now with two heads' and also stating that when another Sky rider does well then 'suspicion is as contagious as herpes' is hardly admirable reporting.

Nibali's fall seems to have been crowd related. Looks a tough balance to me between the fantastic atmosphere and access generated by the road side, and rider safety. It would be very sad if everyone was constrained for miles behind barriers and rows of stewards but something nasty is going to happen soon unless things calm down a bit. The potential for a spectator to get run over by a motorbike is also scary. Surely having a flare as a spectator should be outlawed and prosecuted? It is a bit sad when cycling falls behind football (that paragon of discipline) in terms of crowd safety and behaviour.

Not sure how any of this resolves. Maybe another scandal comes along that diverts attention from Sky or perhaps they should just lose? Maybe sign a French rider!

If the Tour was decided because a Team Sky rider was taken down by deliberate crowd action that would be another new low for the race. Nibali might argue the course of the Tour has already been affected, albeit accidentally.

I'm looking forward to seeing how the Pyrenees pan out. I wish there were more riders really pushing the GC to shake it up, but I still think it could be fascinating.

Bruce

Beautifully summed up Bruce,

I think alot of the French hostility stems from the Armstrong years in the their tour and not having a French winner since Laurent Fignon.By Armstrong's 5 th Tour win there was already doping doubt about him,myself included I wanted to believe but I thought some of his performances just looked too superhuman.Also an American team stamping their dominance over the tour consistently year after year sowed the seeds for their dislike.

I remember that BBC 2 documentary about Team Sky - Shane Sutton and Wiggins and the TOE episode and David Miller saying he felt angry that Sky could put themselves in that position as when he was doping he tried the same substances Wiggins and he thought it was stronger than EPO.Also with Sky's whiter than white drugs stance he felt sick in his heart as he really wanted to believe in the team.

I know Froome has been cleared but theirs stills part of me that doubts not so much the validity of the Asthma inhaler but the way Sky handled it and I think some of  the French public see another US Postal smoke and mirrors with Sky.

Looking forward to today's stage should be a cracker and Wow what a tour so far one of the best for years.

General Classification - at start of Stage 16

1GERAINT THOMAS8TEAM SKY62H 49' 47''-B : 23''-
2CHRIS FROOME1TEAM SKY62H 51' 26''+ 00H 01' 39''B : 4''-
3TOM DUMOULIN32TEAM SUNWEB62H 51' 37''+ 00H 01' 50''B : 12''P : 00' 20''
4PRIMOŽ ROGLIC166TEAM LOTTO NL - JUMBO62H 52' 25''+ 00H 02' 38''--
5ROMAIN BARDET21AG2R LA MONDIALE62H 53' 08''+ 00H 03' 21''B : 4''-
6MIKEL LANDA MEANA75MOVISTAR TEAM62H 53' 29''+ 00H 03' 42''--
7STEVEN KRUIJSWIJK161TEAM LOTTO NL - JUMBO62H 53' 44''+ 00H 03' 57''--
8NAIRO QUINTANA71MOVISTAR TEAM62H 54' 10''+ 00H 04' 23''--
9JAKOB FUGLSANG121ASTANA PRO TEAM62H 56' 01''+ 00H 06' 14''--
10DANIEL MARTIN91UAE TEAM EMIRATES62H 56' 41''+ 00H 06' 54''B : 11''-
11ALEJANDRO VALVERDE78MOVISTAR TEAM62H 59' 23''+ 00H 09' 36''B : 4''-
12BOB JUNGELS105QUICK - STEP FLOORS62H 59' 40''+ 00H 09' 53''--
13ILNUR ZAKARIN141TEAM KATUSHA ALPECIN62H 59' 48''+ 00H 10' 01''--
14PIERRE ROGER LATOUR26AG2R LA MONDIALE63H 07' 15''+ 00H 17' 28''B : 6''P : 00' 10''
15GREG VAN AVERMAET87BMC RACING TEAM63H 08' 09''+ 00H 18' 22''B : 15''-
16MIKEL NIEVE ITURRALDE68MITCHELTON - SCOTT63H 08' 38''+ 00H 18' 51''--
17GUILLAUME MARTIN211WANTY - GROUPE GOBERT63H 09' 42''+ 00H 19' 55''--
18DAMIANO CARUSO83BMC RACING TEAM63H 11' 23''+ 00H 21' 36''-P : 00' 10''
19TANEL KANGERT125ASTANA PRO TEAM63H 11' 23''+ 00H 21' 36''--
20LILIAN CALMEJANE181DIRECT ENERGIE63H 12' 04''+ 00H 22' 17''B : 1''-
21RAFAL MAJKA114BORA - HANSGROHE63H 13' 05''+ 00H 23' 18''--
22EGAN ARLEY BERNAL GOMEZ2TEAM SKY63H 13' 31''+ 00H 23' 44''-P : 00' 10''
23WARREN BARGUIL41TEAM FORTUNEO - SAMSIC63H 15' 32''+ 00H 25' 45''--
24BAUKE MOLLEMA191TREK - SEGAFREDO63H 15' 39''+ 00H 25' 52''B : 4''-
25DOMENICO POZZOVIVO58BAHRAIN - MERIDA63H 18' 50''+ 00H 29' 03''--
26JON IZAGUIRRE INSAUSTI55BAHRAIN - MERIDA63H 19' 31''+ 00H 29' 44''B : 12''-
27SIMON GESCHKE34TEAM SUNWEB63H 19' 43''+ 00H 29' 56''--
28SERGE PAUWELS134TEAM DIMENSION DATA63H 20' 08''+ 00H 30' 21''-P : 00' 20''
29PIERRE ROLLAND16TEAM EF EDUCATION FIRST - DRAPAC P/B CANNONDALE63H 22' 09''+ 00H 32' 22''--
30ADAM YATES61MITCHELTON - SCOTT63H 29' 43''+ 00H 39' 56''--
31GORKA IZAGUIRRE INSAUSTI54BAHRAIN - MERIDA63H 32' 28''+ 00H 42' 41''--
32DANIEL FELIPE MARTINEZ POVEDA14TEAM EF EDUCATION FIRST - DRAPAC P/B CANNONDALE63H 34' 00''+ 00H 44' 13''--
33DARYL IMPEY67MITCHELTON - SCOTT63H 40' 37''+ 00H 50' 50''--
34ARTHUR VICHOT158GROUPAMA - FDJ63H 40' 40''+ 00H 50' 53''--
35SYLVAIN CHAVANEL183DIRECT ENERGIE63H 43' 55''+ 00H 54' 08''B : 3''-
36PHILIPPE GILBERT104QUICK - STEP FLOORS63H 46' 10''+ 00H 56' 23''B : 6''-
37JULIEN BERNARD192TREK - SEGAFREDO63H 46' 24''+ 00H 56' 37''--
38DAVID GAUDU152GROUPAMA - FDJ63H 46' 38''+ 00H 56' 51''--
39TEJAY VAN GARDEREN88BMC RACING TEAM63H 47' 27''+ 00H 57' 40''-P : 00' 10''
40ROBERT GESINK162TEAM LOTTO NL - JUMBO63H 47' 41''+ 00H 57' 54''--
41JULIAN ALAPHILIPPE101QUICK - STEP FLOORS63H 48' 16''+ 00H 58' 29''B : 19''-
42AMAEL MOINARD46TEAM FORTUNEO - SAMSIC63H 48' 22''+ 00H 58' 35''--
43STEFAN KÜNG85BMC RACING TEAM63H 50' 36''+ 01H 00' 49''B : 4''P : 00' 10''
44RUDY MOLARD156GROUPAMA - FDJ63H 52' 51''+ 01H 03' 04''--
45PETER SAGAN111BORA - HANSGROHE63H 55' 07''+ 01H 05' 20''B : 52''-
46MAXIME BOUET42TEAM FORTUNEO - SAMSIC63H 57' 23''+ 01H 07' 36''--
47NICOLAS EDET203COFIDIS, SOLUTIONS CREDITS63H 58' 31''+ 01H 08' 44''--
48JESUS HERRADA204COFIDIS, SOLUTIONS CREDITS63H 58' 38''+ 01H 08' 51''--
49ANDREY AMADOR72MOVISTAR TEAM63H 59' 43''+ 01H 09' 56''-P : 00' 10''
50SØREN KRAGH ANDERSEN36TEAM SUNWEB63H 59' 48''+ 01H 10' 01''--
51MICHAEL VALGREN ANDERSEN128ASTANA PRO TEAM63H 59' 50''+ 01H 10' 03''--
52JASPER STUYVEN198TREK - SEGAFREDO64H 00' 56''+ 01H 11' 09''B : 4''-
53MATHIAS FRANK24AG2R LA MONDIALE64H 02' 26''+ 01H 12' 39''--
54OMAR FRAILE MATARRANZ122ASTANA PRO TEAM64H 03' 58''+ 01H 14' 11''B : 10''-
55TOM-JELTE SLAGTER136TEAM DIMENSION DATA64H 05' 08''+ 01H 15' 21''--
56LAURENS TEN DAM37TEAM SUNWEB64H 06' 41''+ 01H 16' 54''--
57THOMAS DEGAND212WANTY - GROUPE GOBERT64H 07' 16''+ 01H 17' 29''--
58PAVEL KOCHETKOV145TEAM KATUSHA ALPECIN64H 08' 21''+ 01H 18' 34''--
59KRISTIJAN ÐURASEK93UAE TEAM EMIRATES64H 09' 27''+ 01H 19' 40''--
60THOMAS DE GENDT174LOTTO SOUDAL64H 09' 33''+ 01H 19' 46''--
61ANTWAN TOLHOEK168TEAM LOTTO NL - JUMBO64H 09' 59''+ 01H 20' 12''--
62MAGNUS CORT NIELSEN126ASTANA PRO TEAM64H 10' 34''+ 01H 20' 47''B : 10''-
63NIKIAS ARNDT33TEAM SUNWEB64H 12' 01''+ 01H 22' 14''--
64FRANCO PELLIZOTTI57BAHRAIN - MERIDA64H 12' 08''+ 01H 22' 21''--
65MARCO MINNAARD214WANTY - GROUPE GOBERT64H 13' 10''+ 01H 23' 23''B : 3''-
66OLIVER NAESEN27AG2R LA MONDIALE64H 13' 23''+ 01H 23' 36''B : 1''-
67MICHAL KWIATKOWSKI4TEAM SKY64H 14' 17''+ 01H 24' 30''--
68DANIEL NAVARRO GARCIA205COFIDIS, SOLUTIONS CREDITS64H 15' 45''+ 01H 25' 58''--
69WOUT POELS6TEAM SKY64H 18' 22''+ 01H 28' 35''--
70ROMAIN SICARD187DIRECT ENERGIE64H 18' 53''+ 01H 29' 06''--
71TOMS SKUJINS197TREK - SEGAFREDO64H 18' 59''+ 01H 29' 12''--
72CHAD HAGA35TEAM SUNWEB64H 25' 28''+ 01H 35' 41''--
73JHON DARWIN ATAPUMA HURTADO92UAE TEAM EMIRATES64H 26' 10''+ 01H 36' 23''-P : 00' 20''
74JESPER HANSEN124ASTANA PRO TEAM64H 27' 22''+ 01H 37' 35''--
75KOEN DE KORT193TREK - SEGAFREDO64H 27' 23''+ 01H 37' 36''--
76ANTHONY PEREZ206COFIDIS, SOLUTIONS CREDITS64H 27' 43''+ 01H 37' 56''B : 1''-
77YVES LAMPAERT106QUICK - STEP FLOORS64H 29' 21''+ 01H 39' 34''B : 4''P : 00' 10''
78ANDREA PASQUALON216WANTY - GROUPE GOBERT64H 29' 36''+ 01H 39' 49''--
79PAWEL POLJANSKI117BORA - HANSGROHE64H 29' 46''+ 01H 39' 59''--
80IMANOL ERVITI74MOVISTAR TEAM64H 30' 19''+ 01H 40' 32''--
81MARC SOLER77MOVISTAR TEAM64H 30' 47''+ 01H 41' 00''--
82TOBIAS LUDVIGSSON155GROUPAMA - FDJ64H 32' 36''+ 01H 42' 49''--
83EDVALD BOASSON HAGEN132TEAM DIMENSION DATA64H 33' 46''+ 01H 43' 59''-P : 02' 00''
84KRISTIJAN KOREN56BAHRAIN - MERIDA64H 35' 03''+ 01H 45' 16''--
85IAN BOSWELL142TEAM KATUSHA ALPECIN64H 35' 46''+ 01H 45' 59''--
86PAUL MARTENS165TEAM LOTTO NL - JUMBO64H 35' 49''+ 01H 46' 02''--
87THOMAS BOUDAT182DIRECT ENERGIE64H 35' 57''+ 01H 46' 10''--
88JULIEN VERMOTE138TEAM DIMENSION DATA64H 36' 23''+ 01H 46' 36''--
89JEROME COUSIN184DIRECT ENERGIE64H 37' 05''+ 01H 47' 18''B : 3''-
90ELIE GESBERT43TEAM FORTUNEO - SAMSIC64H 37' 16''+ 01H 47' 29''--
91SILVAN DILLIER22AG2R LA MONDIALE64H 37' 28''+ 01H 47' 41''--
92NILS POLITT147TEAM KATUSHA ALPECIN64H 38' 17''+ 01H 48' 30''--
93YOANN OFFREDO215WANTY - GROUPE GOBERT64H 38' 48''+ 01H 49' 01''B : 2''-
94MARCUS BURGHARDT113BORA - HANSGROHE64H 39' 28''+ 01H 49' 41''B : 1''-
95EDWARD THEUNS38TEAM SUNWEB64H 40' 22''+ 01H 50' 35''--
96FLORIAN VACHON48TEAM FORTUNEO - SAMSIC64H 40' 24''+ 01H 50' 37''--
97DION SMITH217WANTY - GROUPE GOBERT64H 41' 17''+ 01H 51' 30''--
98SONNY COLBRELLI52BAHRAIN - MERIDA64H 41' 18''+ 01H 51' 31''B : 12''-
99JULIEN SIMON207COFIDIS, SOLUTIONS CREDITS64H 41' 24''+ 01H 51' 37''--
100JONATHAN CASTROVIEJO3TEAM SKY64H 41' 30''+ 01H 51' 43''--
101JELLE VANENDERT178LOTTO SOUDAL64H 41' 38''+ 01H 51' 51''--
102DAMIEN HOWSON66MITCHELTON - SCOTT64H 43' 33''+ 01H 53' 46''--
103REINARDT JANSE VAN RENSBURG133TEAM DIMENSION DATA64H 44' 48''+ 01H 55' 01''--
104JOHN DEGENKOLB194TREK - SEGAFREDO64H 46' 08''+ 01H 56' 21''B : 14''-
105MICHAEL SCHÄR86BMC RACING TEAM64H 46' 17''+ 01H 56' 30''--
106MICHAEL GOGL195TREK - SEGAFREDO64H 47' 20''+ 01H 57' 33''--
107NIKI TERPSTRA108QUICK - STEP FLOORS64H 48' 33''+ 01H 58' 46''--
108TOMASZ MARCZYNSKI176LOTTO SOUDAL64H 49' 07''+ 01H 59' 20''B : 1''-
109SEP VANMARCKE18TEAM EF EDUCATION FIRST - DRAPAC P/B CANNONDALE64H 49' 27''+ 01H 59' 40''--
110ALEXANDER KRISTOFF95UAE TEAM EMIRATES64H 49' 46''+ 01H 59' 59''B : 6''-
111GREGOR MÜHLBERGER115BORA - HANSGROHE64H 49' 50''+ 02H 00' 03''--
112DANIEL OSS116BORA - HANSGROHE64H 50' 27''+ 02H 00' 40''--
113SIMON CLARKE12TEAM EF EDUCATION FIRST - DRAPAC P/B CANNONDALE64H 51' 47''+ 02H 02' 00''--
114DANIELE BENNATI73MOVISTAR TEAM64H 51' 56''+ 02H 02' 09''--
115LAURENT PICHON47TEAM FORTUNEO - SAMSIC64H 53' 45''+ 02H 03' 58''--
116MATHEW HAYMAN64MITCHELTON - SCOTT64H 54' 14''+ 02H 04' 27''--
117MICHAEL HEPBURN65MITCHELTON - SCOTT64H 54' 16''+ 02H 04' 29''--
118KEVIN LEDANOIS45TEAM FORTUNEO - SAMSIC64H 55' 08''+ 02H 05' 21''--
119ROMAIN HARDY44TEAM FORTUNEO - SAMSIC64H 56' 21''+ 02H 06' 34''-P : 00' 20''
120LUKE DURBRIDGE63MITCHELTON - SCOTT64H 57' 12''+ 02H 07' 25''-P : 00' 30''
121RORY SUTHERLAND97UAE TEAM EMIRATES64H 57' 59''+ 02H 08' 12''--
122MACIEJ BODNAR112BORA - HANSGROHE64H 59' 46''+ 02H 09' 59''--
123FABIEN GRELLIER186DIRECT ENERGIE65H 00' 03''+ 02H 10' 16''B : 2''P : 00' 10''
124HEINRICH HAUSSLER53BAHRAIN - MERIDA65H 00' 59''+ 02H 11' 12''--
125SIMON GERRANS84BMC RACING TEAM65H 01' 18''+ 02H 11' 31''--
126MARCO MARCATO96UAE TEAM EMIRATES65H 02' 24''+ 02H 12' 37''--
127TIM DECLERCQ102QUICK - STEP FLOORS65H 02' 49''+ 02H 13' 02''--
128JACK BAUER62MITCHELTON - SCOTT65H 03' 23''+ 02H 13' 36''B : 3''-
129OLIVIER LE GAC154GROUPAMA - FDJ65H 05' 49''+ 02H 16' 02''--
130ANTHONY TURGIS208COFIDIS, SOLUTIONS CREDITS65H 06' 31''+ 02H 16' 44''--
131TIMOTHY DUPONT213WANTY - GROUPE GOBERT65H 07' 14''+ 02H 17' 27''--
132GUILLAUME VAN KEIRSBULCK218WANTY - GROUPE GOBERT65H 07' 16''+ 02H 17' 29''B : 2''-
133LUKAS PÖSTLBERGER118BORA - HANSGROHE65H 07' 36''+ 02H 17' 49''--
134TOM SCULLY17TEAM EF EDUCATION FIRST - DRAPAC P/B CANNONDALE65H 08' 19''+ 02H 18' 32''--
135TAYLOR PHINNEY15TEAM EF EDUCATION FIRST - DRAPAC P/B CANNONDALE65H 09' 55''+ 02H 20' 08''--
136ARNAUD DEMARE151GROUPAMA - FDJ65H 11' 09''+ 02H 21' 22''B : 8''-
137RAMON SINKELDAM157GROUPAMA - FDJ65H 11' 19''+ 02H 21' 32''--
138LUKE ROWE7TEAM SKY65H 11' 41''+ 02H 21' 54''--
139OLIVIERO TROIA98UAE TEAM EMIRATES65H 12' 01''+ 02H 22' 14''--
140CHRISTOPHE LAPORTE201COFIDIS, SOLUTIONS CREDITS65H 12' 10''+ 02H 22' 23''-P : 00' 20''
141DIMITRI CLAEYS202COFIDIS, SOLUTIONS CREDITS65H 14' 35''+ 02H 24' 48''B : 3''-
142DAMIEN GAUDIN185DIRECT ENERGIE65H 14' 41''+ 02H 24' 54''-P : 00' 10''
143MAXIMILIANO ARIEL RICHEZE107QUICK - STEP FLOORS65H 15' 05''+ 02H 25' 18''--
144ROBERTO FERRARI94UAE TEAM EMIRATES65H 16' 31''+ 02H 26' 44''--
145JASPER DE BUYST173LOTTO SOUDAL65H 25' 45''+ 02H 35' 58''-P : 00' 20''
146TIMO ROOSEN167TEAM LOTTO NL - JUMBO65H 27' 20''+ 02H 37' 33''-P : 00' 20''
147JACOPO GUARNIERI153GROUPAMA - FDJ65H 28' 17''+ 02H 38' 30''--
148JAY ROBERT THOMSON137TEAM DIMENSION DATA65H 32' 57''+ 02H 43' 10''-P : 00' 20''
149AMUND GRØNDAHL JANSEN164TEAM LOTTO NL - JUMBO65H 33' 41''+ 02H 43' 54''--
150LAWSON CRADDOCK13TEAM EF EDUCATION FIRST - DRAPAC P/B CANNONDALE65H 44' 01''+ 02H 54' 14''--
 

Results Stage 16

TIMESGAPBP
1JULIAN ALAPHILIPPE101QUICK - STEP FLOORS05H 13' 22''-B : 10''-
2GORKA IZAGUIRRE INSAUSTI54BAHRAIN - MERIDA05H 13' 37''+ 00H 00' 15''B : 6''-
3ADAM YATES61MITCHELTON - SCOTT05H 13' 37''+ 00H 00' 15''B : 4''-
4BAUKE MOLLEMA191TREK - SEGAFREDO05H 13' 37''+ 00H 00' 15''--
5DOMENICO POZZOVIVO58BAHRAIN - MERIDA05H 13' 40''+ 00H 00' 18''--
6ROBERT GESINK162TEAM LOTTO NL - JUMBO05H 13' 59''+ 00H 00' 37''--
7MICHAEL VALGREN ANDERSEN128ASTANA PRO TEAM05H 14' 18''+ 00H 00' 56''--
8GREGOR MÜHLBERGER115BORA - HANSGROHE05H 14' 18''+ 00H 00' 56''-

<>

23CHRIS FROOME1TEAM SKY05H 22' 14''+ 00H 08' 52''--
24GERAINT THOMAS8TEAM SKY05H 22' 14''+ 00H 08' 52''--
25TOM DUMOULIN32TEAM SUNWEB05H 22' 14''+ 00H 08' 52''-

 

 No change in the top ten GC 

Yes, Philippe Gilbert was very darn lucky not to come a lot worse off, however he exercised amazing cat fast reactions, seemingly to vault over that low wall with perfect timing. I'm really pleased he was able to get back on his bike and finish the race, and on to a well deserved win of todays 'Combatively Prize'. Should have also got a gold medal for acrobatics too ; )

Adam Yates crash looked more painful, the way he slid on shoulder-tarmac interface - he must be sore after that. He probably feels even more sore at losing the race due to it.

Julian Alaphilippe was on top form, a very fine win, and looks like he's got the Climbers poker dot jersey award sown up too.

Debs

Alaphillipe is great value. Looks like he has ADHD on the bike. Real verve and a big smile. I sure hope he does not have asthma!

Yates seemed pretty shaken yet I thought his off was at fairly slow speed. Appeared to be gutted as much as hurt maybe, although at least he recovered for a podium. Gilbert a pretty lucky bunny, in some places the drop off is a long way down over those low walls.

Tomorrow is a real oddity, just 65k but climbing from the start, 2 cols and the last summit finish of the race. Not quite sure who it will favour but if the challenger teams don't go hard from the off I'd imagine it is going to be hard to create the sort of time gaps Dumoulin etc need. Should be good to watch anyway because they will surely try. Will Froome claw back some time to give him a chance on the final TT?

I've spent several holidays in and around Bagneres de Luchon, summer and winter. Always nice to see it in the tour. A lovely area of France.

Bruce

Bruce Woodhouse posted:

 

Tomorrow is a real oddity, just 65k but climbing from the start, 2 cols and the last summit finish of the race. Not quite sure who it will favour but if the challenger teams don't go hard from the off I'd imagine it is going to be hard to create the sort of time gaps Dumoulin etc need. Should be good to watch anyway because they will surely try. Will Froome claw back some time to give him a chance on the final TT?

Stage 17 is very peculiar, 65 km works out at just over 40 country miles,  a very short [fast] road race for a TdF stage.

Will be interesting to see what actually happens. The unusual format could have all kinds of strange implications for tactics, it's possible the domestiques will be relieved of their bottle fetching duty due to the short blast distance, so perhaps we'll see power team formation tactics on the way (?) On the other hand it's possible the also rans and pure sprinters may keep their powder dry - use the stage as a easy ride day and auto-bus it.  But i think the serious contenders will be under pressure to rocket off quick with the start gun, could be quite a spectacle, just hope it don't rain, and no crashes! : /

 

It's going to be a full on day.Never seen such a short mountain stage should spice things up.I think they are lining up by G.C order at the start.Looking forward to the highlights on ITV 4 tonight.Going to be a massive day for Geraint Thomas if Froome goes will be chase him down ?

Bruce Woodhouse posted:

 The French press .... stating that when another Sky rider does well then 'suspicion is as contagious as herpes' is hardly admirable reporting.

Astonishing to me a simile of this ilk can be considered acceptable in mainstream press. The editor should be fired.

Nibali's fall seems to have been crowd related. Looks a tough balance to me between the fantastic atmosphere and access generated by the road side, and rider safety.

Hearkens back to 15 years ago when Lance's brake lever was caught by a strap from a spectator waving a discarded feed bag. They weren't even wearing helmets in those days.

Surely having a flare as a spectator should be outlawed and prosecuted?

I have never understood why flares on mountain stages persist. Tradition? Not only a hazardous situation to other bystanders (flares burn intensely hot and the holders are likely drunken), but the smoke produced is noxious to the riders at a time when they're most in need of oxygen. A hindrance to camera coverage as well. A ban on flares seems so readily enforceable given the number of gendarmes about, plus the culprit is immediately identifiable. I remember seeing years ago that the French authorities had 'drunk tanks' along the course where they could hold such culprits. Maybe the issue is extinguishing the flares once they're struck?

Who were we to be doubting Thomas?

Rock solid on the climb and a little kick at the end to add a few seconds over the doughty Dumoulin. Great stage. I'm sure Froome was giving his all until he buckled, but the issue of leadership is over now for sure.Froome may have to battle to hold 3rd perhaps.

Surely only falls or mechanicals are going to stop a Thomas win.

Bruce

I'm glad Quintana won the stage, he's had his share of rotten luck, and it made a change to see the usual concerned and glum looking Quin' come over all mighty, and even give over a smile as he crossed the line. Must have cheered the little chap up no end : )

I guess there were a lot of tired legs from the day before, the guys who did well had the easy day before, except Alaphilippe; and even he proved himself to be human and ran out of steam half way up the Col de Portet.

Due to the nature of a very short road race with nothin but ascending and descending, [ a bit like a mass start time trial - everyone for themselves ] i think it would have been more interesting to have run it after a rest day.

Results of Stage 17

  
1NAIRO QUINTANA71MOVISTAR TEAM02H 21' 27''-B : 10''-
2DANIEL MARTIN91UAE TEAM EMIRATES02H 21' 55''+ 00H 00' 28''B : 6''-
3GERAINT THOMAS8TEAM SKY02H 22' 14''+ 00H 00' 47''B : 4''-
4PRIMOŽ ROGLIC166TEAM LOTTO NL - JUMBO02H 22' 19''+ 00H 00' 52''--
5TOM DUMOULIN32TEAM SUNWEB02H 22' 19''+ 00H 00' 52''--
6STEVEN KRUIJSWIJK161TEAM LOTTO NL - JUMBO02H 22' 32''+ 00H 01' 05''--
7EGAN ARLEY BERNAL GOMEZ2TEAM SKY02H 23' 00''+ 00H 01' 33''--
8CHRIS FROOME1TEAM SKY02H 23' 02''+ 00H 01' 35''--
9MIKEL LANDA MEANA75MOVISTAR TEAM02H 23' 02''+ 00H 01' 35''--
10ILNUR ZAKARIN141TEAM KATUSHA ALPECIN02H 23' 28''+ 00H 02' 01''--

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