UEFA Nations League

MDS posted:

I'm not sure of the details, but I think it is going to be used to determine rankings for the draw for the qualifying groups for the Euros in 2020. 

Reminds me of the old management joke, “I don’t think we should rush straight into the pre-meeting for the meeting, let’s first have a meeting to determine the agenda for the pre-meeting.”

But it's being going on in international and European club competition for ages.  For example, ahead of last week's draw for the group stages of the Champions league, Liverpool were a bit grumpy to be put in pot 2 rather than pot 1, given they reached last season's final.  All the new EUFA Nations league does is change how the ranking is determined.

Will it not make the qualifying games  a non-event..... ?   at least in Champions league you have at least two top teams in each group....so games are worth watching 

possibly it does remove the need for international friendly games if their is a Nations league instead 

MDS posted:

But it's being going on in international and European club competition for ages.  For example, ahead of last week's draw for the group stages of the Champions league, Liverpool were a bit grumpy to be put in pot 2 rather than pot 1, given they reached last season's final.  All the new EUFA Nations league does is change how the ranking is determined.

Liverpool were actually put in pot 3 whereas Tottenham and Man U were in pot 2. Of course Spurs and Man U finished above Liverpool last season and the rankings also take into account each clubs record in Europe over only the previous 5 seasons.

sjbabbey posted:
MDS posted:

But it's being going on in international and European club competition for ages.  For example, ahead of last week's draw for the group stages of the Champions league, Liverpool were a bit grumpy to be put in pot 2 rather than pot 1, given they reached last season's final.  All the new EUFA Nations league does is change how the ranking is determined.

Liverpool were actually put in pot 3 whereas Tottenham and Man U were in pot 2. Of course Spurs and Man U finished above Liverpool last season and the rankings also take into account each clubs record in Europe over only the previous 5 seasons.

Thanks for the correction, sjbabbey. Overstated my pots.  In the event, I didn't think Liverpool's group looked too bad.  

It's an opportunity for really rubbishy countries like Scotland to qualify for tournaments they otherwise wouldn't get a sniff at.  And I'm Scottish so I'm allowed to say that.

And while I'm on a rant Liverpool, Spurs and Man U shouldn't have even been in the Champions League.  In case anybody needs an explanation the name of the tournament is a big clue.

Bryce Curdy posted:

It's an opportunity for really rubbishy countries like Scotland to qualify for tournaments they otherwise wouldn't get a sniff at.  And I'm Scottish so I'm allowed to say that.

And while I'm on a rant Liverpool, Spurs and Man U shouldn't have even been in the Champions League.  In case anybody needs an explanation the name of the tournament is a big clue.

It’s a shame Scotland parted company with Gordon Strachan, although somewhat underrated he was definitely a passionate manager who seemed to get the best out of the players....... I’ve never been a fan of  the man in charge now.....

As for the Champions league that’s always the way it used to be .... just the champions...

He is a much better manager than his replacement.  The start of the WC qualifying was poor, and if he'd been sacked then few would have had much sympathy but he was kept on and nearly turned it around, including England equalising in injury time at Hampden.  To sack him at that point made no sense.

That's the way it should be with the Champions League, or change the bloody name.  My club were the first Northern European side to win the competition but now have to play four qualifying rounds to qualify for the group stages while the team that finishes fourth in the premiership qualifies automatically.  And Leicester City who have no European pedigree at all were seeded  into pot 1 giving them a massive advantage.

Bryce Curdy posted:

He is a much better manager than his replacement.  The start of the WC qualifying was poor, and if he'd been sacked then few would have had much sympathy but he was kept on and nearly turned it around, including England equalising in injury time at Hampden.  To sack him at that point made no sense.

That's the way it should be with the Champions League, or change the bloody name.  My club were the first Northern European side to win the competition but now have to play four qualifying rounds to qualify for the group stages while the team that finishes fourth in the premiership qualifies automatically.  And Leicester City who have no European pedigree at all were seeded  into pot 1 giving them a massive advantage.

The thing is Gordon’s replacement has just lost 6 in a row....and they are playing extremely  poorly .... 

 

As for the Champions league I quite agree....

I assume you are a Celtic fan?

I'm not a Scot but the erosion of standards in Scottish football seems heavy and enduring.  For very many years the top clubs in England all seemed to have some excellent Scottish players eg Glizean, Mackay, Bremner, Strachan, Dalglish, Souness - the list is almost endless.  I can understand that the riches of the Premier League has attracted top talent from around the World that would have squeezed opportunities for all home nations but I don't think that can be the whole of the explanation for the disappearance of top-class Scottish football talent. 

MDS posted:

I'm not a Scot but the erosion of standards in Scottish football seems heavy and enduring.  For very many years the top clubs in England all seemed to have some excellent Scottish players eg Glizean, Mackay, Bremner, Strachan, Dalglish, Souness - the list is almost endless.  I can understand that the riches of the Premier League has attracted top talent from around the World that would have squeezed opportunities for all home nations but I don't think that can be the whole of the explanation for the disappearance of top-class Scottish football talent. 

All those players  you have mentioned were top class..... I struggle to think of any present day  top class Scottish players??

wenger2015 posted:
MDS posted:

I'm not a Scot but the erosion of standards in Scottish football seems heavy and enduring.  For very many years the top clubs in England all seemed to have some excellent Scottish players eg Glizean, Mackay, Bremner, Strachan, Dalglish, Souness - the list is almost endless.  I can understand that the riches of the Premier League has attracted top talent from around the World that would have squeezed opportunities for all home nations but I don't think that can be the whole of the explanation for the disappearance of top-class Scottish football talent. 

All those players  you have mentioned were top class..... I struggle to think of any present day  top class Scottish players??

Andrew Robertson is very talented.

Hook posted:
wenger2015 posted:
MDS posted:

I'm not a Scot but the erosion of standards in Scottish football seems heavy and enduring.  For very many years the top clubs in England all seemed to have some excellent Scottish players eg Glizean, Mackay, Bremner, Strachan, Dalglish, Souness - the list is almost endless.  I can understand that the riches of the Premier League has attracted top talent from around the World that would have squeezed opportunities for all home nations but I don't think that can be the whole of the explanation for the disappearance of top-class Scottish football talent. 

All those players  you have mentioned were top class..... I struggle to think of any present day  top class Scottish players??

Andrew Robertson is very talented.

Unfortunately I have never heard of him....who does he play for?

MDS posted:

I'm not a Scot but the erosion of standards in Scottish football seems heavy and enduring.  For very many years the top clubs in England all seemed to have some excellent Scottish players eg Glizean, Mackay, Bremner, Strachan, Dalglish, Souness - the list is almost endless.  I can understand that the riches of the Premier League has attracted top talent from around the World that would have squeezed opportunities for all home nations but I don't think that can be the whole of the explanation for the disappearance of top-class Scottish football talent. 

They didn't have central heating in them days  ;-)

Christopher_M posted:
MDS posted:

I'm not a Scot but the erosion of standards in Scottish football seems heavy and enduring.  For very many years the top clubs in England all seemed to have some excellent Scottish players eg Glizean, Mackay, Bremner, Strachan, Dalglish, Souness - the list is almost endless.  I can understand that the riches of the Premier League has attracted top talent from around the World that would have squeezed opportunities for all home nations but I don't think that can be the whole of the explanation for the disappearance of top-class Scottish football talent. 

They didn't have central heating in them days  ;-)

They did have central heating, it’s just being Scottish they didn’t switch it on 

A couple of points from me on this one:

top quality Scots not mentioned earlier: Alan Hanson and Archie Gemmil plus Andy Gray is the best header of a ball I have ever seen

King Kenny Dalglish was class, no doubt, but Kevin Keegan is the best British player in my life-time. The way he propelled both Liverpool and Hamburg to league titles and success in Europe. He is the only Brit to win the ballond'or more than once.

Ray

Bryce Curdy posted:

Wow. If somebody had suggested Bobby Moore or Stanley Matthews I'd have paused for breath. But Keegan couldn't lace Dalglish's boots, not even close.

Bobby Moore was in a league of his own... better than KK and KD combined,  as for Stanley Matthews way before my time....

what I did like about Kk was you could at least make out what he was saying....

wenger2015 posted:
Hook posted:
wenger2015 posted:
MDS posted:

I'm not a Scot but the erosion of standards in Scottish football seems heavy and enduring.  For very many years the top clubs in England all seemed to have some excellent Scottish players eg Glizean, Mackay, Bremner, Strachan, Dalglish, Souness - the list is almost endless.  I can understand that the riches of the Premier League has attracted top talent from around the World that would have squeezed opportunities for all home nations but I don't think that can be the whole of the explanation for the disappearance of top-class Scottish football talent. 

All those players  you have mentioned were top class..... I struggle to think of any present day  top class Scottish players??

Andrew Robertson is very talented.

Unfortunately I have never heard of him....who does he play for?

A young left-back signed last year by Liverpool from Hull.  

MDS posted:
wenger2015 posted:
Hook posted:
wenger2015 posted:
MDS posted:

I'm not a Scot but the erosion of standards in Scottish football seems heavy and enduring.  For very many years the top clubs in England all seemed to have some excellent Scottish players eg Glizean, Mackay, Bremner, Strachan, Dalglish, Souness - the list is almost endless.  I can understand that the riches of the Premier League has attracted top talent from around the World that would have squeezed opportunities for all home nations but I don't think that can be the whole of the explanation for the disappearance of top-class Scottish football talent. 

All those players  you have mentioned were top class..... I struggle to think of any present day  top class Scottish players??

Andrew Robertson is very talented.

Unfortunately I have never heard of him....who does he play for?

A young left-back signed last year by Liverpool from Hull.  

Is that all their is? 

wenger2015 posted:
MDS posted:
wenger2015 posted:
Hook posted:
wenger2015 posted:
MDS posted:

I'm not a Scot but the erosion of standards in Scottish football seems heavy and enduring.  For very many years the top clubs in England all seemed to have some excellent Scottish players eg Glizean, Mackay, Bremner, Strachan, Dalglish, Souness - the list is almost endless.  I can understand that the riches of the Premier League has attracted top talent from around the World that would have squeezed opportunities for all home nations but I don't think that can be the whole of the explanation for the disappearance of top-class Scottish football talent. 

All those players  you have mentioned were top class..... I struggle to think of any present day  top class Scottish players??

Andrew Robertson is very talented.

Unfortunately I have never heard of him....who does he play for?

A young left-back signed last year by Liverpool from Hull.  

Is that all their is? 

There is a list here:

http://eurorivals.net/abroad/s...yers-in-england.html

wenger2015 posted:

Hook,

Interesting list .... no doubt very good players but no one outstanding ....

Wenger2015 - I think you are being generous. I would say there about half-a-dozen reasonable players in the list, most are below average and some, well, the guy from Wigan, Kal Naismith, played for my lot for a few seasons. He was pretty good in League 2 (when he could be arsed) but couldn't keep his place when we were prompted to League One ie the third tier of English football.  Doesn't bode well for Scottish football.

MDS posted:
wenger2015 posted:

Hook,

Interesting list .... no doubt very good players but no one outstanding ....

Wenger2015 - I think you are being generous. I would say there about half-a-dozen reasonable players in the list, most are below average and some, well, the guy from Wigan, Kal Naismith, played for my lot for a few seasons. He was pretty good in League 2 (when he could be arsed) but couldn't keep his place when we were prompted to League One ie the third tier of English football.  Doesn't bode well for Scottish football.

I have a naturally generous nature.... 

unfortunately you are right the list explains the present situation 

Bryce Curdy posted:

Wow. If somebody had suggested Bobby Moore or Stanley Matthews I'd have paused for breath. But Keegan couldn't lace Dalglish's boots, not even close.

Keegan won the European Footballer of the Year twice, which is two more times than Dalglish did. Just saying.

wenger2015 posted:
MDS posted:
wenger2015 posted:

Hook,

Interesting list .... no doubt very good players but no one outstanding ....

Wenger2015 - I think you are being generous. I would say there about half-a-dozen reasonable players in the list, most are below average and some, well, the guy from Wigan, Kal Naismith, played for my lot for a few seasons. He was pretty good in League 2 (when he could be arsed) but couldn't keep his place when we were prompted to League One ie the third tier of English football.  Doesn't bode well for Scottish football.

I have a naturally generous nature.... 

unfortunately you are right the list explains the present situation 

I'm certainly struggling to think of any Scottish players that have been good enough for the Gunners in modern times.  Do we really have to go back as far as Frank McClintock and George Graham?  

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