Uniti 2.6.1

Hi,
I have to admit, that new DSP version 1.0.28.0 which came with firmware update 2.6.1.9794 is wonderful for me. Much better then in 2.6 and 2.3.

More controlled bass, better soundstage and detail. I like it.

My system: Uniti Atom + Focal 926.

Really happy now.

tony123 posted:

Hi,
I have to admit, that new DSP version 1.0.28.0 which came with firmware update 2.6.1.9794 is wonderful for me. Much better then in 2.6 and 2.3.

More controlled bass, better soundstage and detail. I like it.

My system: Uniti Atom + Focal 926.

Really happy now.

Good to hear.

Difficult to say for certain how different the sound is with 2.6.1 compared to 2.6 as we can't go back to 2.6 without a copy of that, plus I didn't do much listening on 2.6 before going to 2.6.1 as there was a lot of noise in the house so I just tried the update.

My immediate feeling was that 2.6.1 is still quite harsh and loses the warmth of 2.3 which I still prefer, but I did feel that on several tracks bass seemed a lot fuller fuller (yes and much better controlled though perhaps that's what gives the perception of loss of warmth) than with 2.6 where several people felt the need to crank the volume up a fair bit to get the same subjective sound levels as 2.3.  Maybe this DSP is a compromise with the better detail in highs/mids retaining taughter bass of 2.6 but not attenuating it as much.

I strongly suspect if you liked 2.6 you'd like or prefer 2.6.1 but not necessarily so if you preferred 2.3 to 2.6.

All very interesting, and of course our musings are conjecture unless we know officially that a different DSP was used for its sonic characteristics to try to re-dress the balance a bit between 2.3 and 2.6 sound.

So 2.6.1 to me was more of 2.6 as well, but I seemed to have (fingers crossed) tweaked my way back to a boogie factor, still not what I recall with 2.3.1 which resulted in much singing (which is dreadful).

My concern is now every firmware will result in a DSP tweak to maintain or compensate or 'improve' the sound.

Call me old school I just want a sound I know from the day I buy, through years of upgrades, not a F.M.H.A. scenario.

I have seriously started looking at other non Naim streaming options, as one it is clear there are options out there (some say allot better) and for sure the way they manage firmware and apps is user drama free.

Makes you wonder why the DSP settings are being altered in the first place? 

My latest conspiracy theory it’s to try and make a good match to Focal speakers.

Unfortunately at the expense of others, ive seen a couple of comments from people with Focal who are happy with the sound and guess what 99% if dealers have on their demo systems? Also Focal being a step sibling to Naim it would make sense if the step kids could get on well together.

I am an engineer myself, not in audio, but I’ve worked for some large electronic companies, the likes of Philips, Toshiba and now Canon.

Whats exiting to me is the potential flexibility of these systems now that the firmware can so much alter the characteristic’s of the sound, in the past, this would be mostly hardware controlled and not very flexible post production.

For ultimate flexibility, several versions of DSP firmware could be produced and the user could choose based on their taste and/or speaker brand, maybe even a choice to upgrade the system firmware independently of the DSP, however I fear it will never happen that way.

 

Anavrin posted:

Makes you wonder why the DSP settings are being altered in the first place? 

My latest conspiracy theory it’s to try and make a good match to Focal speakers.

Unfortunately at the expense of others, ive seen a couple of comments from people with Focal who are happy with the sound and guess what 99% if dealers have on their demo systems? Also Focal being a step sibling to Naim it would make sense if the step kids could get on well together.

I am an engineer myself, not in audio, but I’ve worked for some large electronic companies, the likes of Philips, Toshiba and now Canon.

Whats exiting to me is the potential flexibility of these systems now that the firmware can so much alter the characteristic’s of the sound, in the past, this would be mostly hardware controlled and not very flexible post production.

For ultimate flexibility, several versions of DSP firmware could be produced and the user could choose based on their taste and/or speaker brand, maybe even a choice to upgrade the system firmware independently of the DSP, however I fear it will never happen that way.

 

well I suspect it's tested on Focals in the factory so yes, you could perhaps say it's optimised for Focal. Then again there are beta testers who presumably have a diverse range of speakers. Having listened to 2.6.1 for a week or so now I'm not convinced it's identical sonically to 2.6 but it's so hard to say in reality.

As has been confirmed elsewhere, Focals are just one of a number of speakers used at the factory for evaluation, most of them being Naim's own designs, including DBLs.

As for DSP changes, I'm reliably informed that every little change you make to the firmware potentially has a knock on effect to performance. I'm no expert, but this I guess makes sense, as it's consistent with Naim's discovery way back with their CD players that optimising this area was important to get best sound performance.  It may be small or perhaps insignificant to some but I imagine not to Naim, particularly at this level where even the smallest changes are audible.   As such I imagine the DSP sometimes needs to be tweaked to ensure the high performance is either maintained, or if opportunity presents itself, even improved.  On the latter point, Naim are always looking to get the best sound performance regardless, so if the DSP can be tweaked to improve this then Naim will do it.

By the way. Although at that moment I'm glad with sound quality from firmware 2.6.1, but I'm also afraid that the quality will change in the future (installing upcoming updates). I would like to fix the quality as it is, but I can't do that, and as I understand Naim also can't guarantee that.

I really would like to avoid such changes. Nobody knows what surprises are waiting us with new updates.

Does anybody know, If I switch to "NAIT XS2 + ND5-XS", will I avoid such sound quality changes from firmware updates? I think ND5-XS is also updatable via internet. So maybe this can also change sound qyality. Also is this setup considered better quality compared to Atom?

The ND5XS has updateable firmware too, although it's a lot more difficult to do and not just selected in the app like with the Atom. You would have the same uncertainty about sound changes with firmware updates. Also note that the ND5 XS has been discontinued, shortly to be replaced by a ND5 XS2.

I would stick with Atom unless you are looking for something that the alternatives distinctly give you.

best

David

Richard Dane posted:

As has been confirmed elsewhere, Focals are just one of a number of speakers used at the factory for evaluation, most of them being Naim's own designs, including DBLs.

As for DSP changes, I'm reliably informed that every little change you make to the firmware potentially has a knock on effect to performance. I'm no expert, but this I guess makes sense, as it's consistent with Naim's discovery way back with their CD players that optimising this area was important to get best sound performance.  It may be small or perhaps insignificant to some but I imagine not to Naim, particularly at this level where even the smallest changes are audible.   As such I imagine the DSP sometimes needs to be tweaked to ensure the high performance is either maintained, or if opportunity presents itself, even improved.  On the latter point, Naim are always looking to get the best sound performance regardless, so if the DSP can be tweaked to improve this then Naim will do it.

That all sounds reasonable Richard and if Naim can improve on something then why not let their customers benefit? The only problem lies in what actually qualifies as an 'improvement'? Sonically that is, as it's so subjective. I guess one gets a consensus from all the testers, factory and beta. One mans medicine is another mans poison as they say and that seems to have played out in recent releases. 

In any case,it is boring that when you invest in a product on music and sound fundamentals,....that this should change after an upgrade of the software.

Richard mentions that it is also evaluated on DBL loudspeakers at the factory.
One in our group has active DBL as well as NDS,he has gone back to version 4.4.
He does not like 4.6 ect....

He also sent an email to Naim Salisbury about this.
After regular component upgrades,you usually get to do some changes in the intuning of their speakers,...to get the maximum performance.
What I have understood,does not even this help here.

This must somehow be found a solution to, know that many have left Linn because of similar causes....the way they chose.
Some have then gone here to Naim instead, among other this guy I told you about here. He previously had Linn's biggest active climax Komri system with 8 Solo mono-amps.

He has, among other things, told Naim to fix this,he does not want to change the music system again,...but will do so unless the music rendition meets the requirements,which made him invest in a Top-spec Naim system.

/Peder 🙂

Hi MERCKY

I agree, the equipment I work with is medical imaging equipment, so image quality as apposed to sound quality.

Something we have tried very recently is to remove the subjectiveness from the equation by having a remote computer in the factory, analyse result from the field and report back how well adjust the system is compared to before or left the factory.

A different challenge with audio equipment, but if the response from a reference system could be recorded, a system with new updates could be subject to the same testing under the same conditions and the response compared to the original.

Ensuring consistency with the original sound.

 
David Hendon posted:

The ND5XS has updateable firmware too, although it's a lot more difficult to do and not just selected in the app like with the Atom. You would have the same uncertainty about sound changes with firmware updates. Also note that the ND5 XS has been discontinued, shortly to be replaced by a ND5 XS2.

I would stick with Atom unless you are looking for something that the alternatives distinctly give you.

best

David

Thanks.

Reading all this I come to conclusion that all new Naim equipment will be affected by sound quality changes after updating. If I'm not mistaken all Naim DAC's, streamers, apmplifiers, etc. have the ability to upgrade. It doesn't matter the update is initiated from internet or USB. It does matter that the update somehow affects sound quality.

Could this be true, or I don't understand something here...?

tony123 posted:
David Hendon posted:

The ND5XS has updateable firmware too, although it's a lot more difficult to do and not just selected in the app like with the Atom. You would have the same uncertainty about sound changes with firmware updates. Also note that the ND5 XS has been discontinued, shortly to be replaced by a ND5 XS2.

I would stick with Atom unless you are looking for something that the alternatives distinctly give you.

best

David

Thanks.

Reading all this I come to conclusion that all new Naim equipment will be affected by sound quality changes after updating. If I'm not mistaken all Naim DAC's, streamers, apmplifiers, etc. have the ability to upgrade. It doesn't matter the update is initiated from internet or USB. It does matter that the update somehow affects sound quality.

Could this be true, or I don't understand something here...?

This is not a new thing, it’s just that some seem not to like the changed sound quality on the new streamers. Updates to the old streamers and the DACs also changed the sound, it’s just that people either liked the new sound, or heard no difference. 

I use Focals and do not like the new updates, for two reasons:

1. I'm old school, a buy what i like and like it to stay that way, NOT change;

2. Room setup, everyone's is different meaning and for many moving speakers in, out, further apart is not an option, back to point 1.

Sadly we still have no formal response from Naim, IF this is a fix to concerns raised.

Anavrin posted:

For ultimate flexibility, several versions of DSP firmware could be produced and the user could choose based on their taste and/or speaker brand, maybe even a choice to upgrade the system firmware independently of the DSP, however I fear it will never happen that way.

I think I mentioned this approach in another thread - in theory as you say, provided there are no specific dependencies the DSP code could be modular and the end-user would then have a choice of several available DSP modules to optimise their particular system - these could be individually downloadable via the Naim app or in Settings.

However, from what I understand differing firmwares may sound quite different even with the same DSP, so it may or may not work well, and you could not guarantee preserving the same sonic signature with different firmware even if an older DSP component could be retained.

The biggest spanner in the works would be if future firmware auto-updated without your consent or if the app nagged you every five minutes to do so.  Manual updating must be retained in my view, as well as the option to revert if you dislike an update (which we can do now via the web configuration pages).

Not had a huge amount of time to listen to deeply to 2.6.1. want I can say though it factory reset is a must of upgrading. I didn't do this the other day when I first did upgrade yesterday I was listening and it all sounded very flat and not really like 2.3 or 2.6. So I did a reset and boy did the sound change. Why does factory resettig do this?

SimonPeterArnold posted:

Not had a huge amount of time to listen to deeply to 2.6.1. want I can say though it factory reset is a must of upgrading. I didn't do this the other day when I first did upgrade yesterday I was listening and it all sounded very flat and not really like 2.3 or 2.6. So I did a reset and boy did the sound change. Why does factory resettig do this?

I had "flat" days with 2.3 update also. And I couldn't figure it out what was the reason. Maybe it was somehow related with electricity, temperature, humidity, etc... Seemed that dynamic range was reduced - less bass and less treble. I also thought that it could be related to my room's acoustics. For example warm concrete can reflect sound different then cold concrete, etc... But after update 2.6.1 I think that all this was related with Atom itself.

7 days past after I've installed update 2.6.1 and all the time it sounded perfect to me, without noticeable sound changes.

Interesting as currently Naim have not confirmed and the Changelog does not mention a DSP change.

I have found a compromise with 2.6.1 and won't go back to 2.3.1 as the back on forth and waiting for Naim, ruins the whole ownership experience.

At the moment i do not intend progressing beyond the Nova, if i do it will be Non Naim, as the way the whole firmware has been handled is a farce.

I wonder when those spending £13k for the ND555 get hit with this issue (change in sound) will think ?

Could it be that it also effected some disks I ripped with the Core? I mean om my previous set (XS-ND5XS) I found disks I ripped ( Computer) were more or less of the same SQ. There was not much difference.With the Core and Nova I find some CD"s are sounding wonderfull and some awfull.in most cases the awfull ones seems to mis background sounds, and a washed out midrange. Strange?

When I updated my Nova to 2.6.1  I made a note of the DSP version. It was 1.255.59 before and after the update. A couple of days ago I had to unplug the Nova and (having switched it on again) the DSP version was 1.0.28.  That seems  a bit odd to me, I wondered if any one else had the same thing.

Listening to 2.6.1 I think that the sound now is what it should be. Seems that Naim fixed serious software bugs. On 2.6.1 actually I hear much deeper and detailed bass (with faster and stronger punch) and much higher frequencies, that I haven't heard before (and they are subtle without harshness; ear likes them). Also soundstage improved. Vocals are more subtle without harshness.

2.3 had real flabby and slow bass (with a lot of boominess ) and cutted off high frequencies and as I said it seems more like a bug and that would explain why Naim tried to fix it with so persistence. Nobody wants to leave serious bugs in their systems. And also that would explain why so dramatic changes occurred.

Maybe much of us got used to 2.3 sound. I also had adaptation going to 2.6.1 about and hour and then was big WOW. And it is till now.

Daveas posted:

When I updated my Nova to 2.6.1  I made a note of the DSP version. It was 1.255.59 before and after the update. A couple of days ago I had to unplug the Nova and (having switched it on again) the DSP version was 1.0.28.  That seems  a bit odd to me, I wondered if any one else had the same thing.

1.0.28 is correct for 2.6.1, it's just that your app dident update I suspect rather then the Nova

Mercky posted:
Daveas posted:

When I updated my Nova to 2.6.1  I made a note of the DSP version. It was 1.255.59 before and after the update. A couple of days ago I had to unplug the Nova and (having switched it on again) the DSP version was 1.0.28.  That seems  a bit odd to me, I wondered if any one else had the same thing.

1.0.28 is correct for 2.6.1, it's just that your app dident update I suspect rather then the Nova

Yes, I've noticed for some time if you update that oddly although the app will show correct updated firmware it only seems to show the DSP version installed when the app was started, until you quit and restart it or power cycle the Uniti device.

Well I can't get 2.6.1 to sound how I want it to like 2.6. Moving placement isnt helping a lot either I find it too fatiguing and not particularly pleasent to listen to. I have to find some way to get a more balanced sound I like or I am selling the blessed thing. 2.3 had its faults but just sounds more natural and balanced overall in my home with my speakers,  but I am not staying on out of date firmware and not get support or features. I just think my speakers dont gel with it any more. I can't afford upgrade at this point but was looking at end of year to celebrate half a century. I really don't want to be forced into it sooner.

Not happy

Tried to listen to music last night again under 2.6.1 but I had to turn it off as it was just not enjoyable., Internet radio is completely unlistenable as is any compressed music in general now, this was not thee case before. I am now sat with my 2nd system and its so much bette (non naim). Really dont get whats going on here even 2,6 did not sound this bad. I really think there is a fault somewhere in the unit these firmware changes are revealing. Wil roll back again and see if its back to normal. If not then perhaps the bug i ran into on 2,6 with blasting audio on input change has done some damage to my speakers, although I would have noticed this when I switched back to 2.3 before. Really becoming frustrated.

TONY123 - Gave up using Hdmi after my first RMA.

SIMONPETERARNOLD - I would look into a full refund via the dealer, if they do not accept then via a small claims court, simple case is bought as per demo, now sound has changed and not supported, we are talking a premium brand (I thought) not a Sony or Technics sound blaster.

Other option is to stick with 2.3.1 as a dead duck support wise.

Later in the week I want to go back to 2.3.1, as at the moment I have tweaked my way back to happy with 2.6.1 but no 2.3.1 mojo.

But I do understand the frustration, it can and will ruin the whole ownership experience.

 

Another Focal user here who is definitely not happy. (Atom, focal 926, Chord epic)

The sound is still weak, nothing ever kicks in with any level of excitement, and the volume is still down by ~15%. I had tested this several times before and after the latest round of pathetic updates, it's not an illusion due to eq changes, it is several DB down at the same level, with the same tracks, in the exact same position.

I'm telling you, I'm 100% convinced Naim have nerfed the uniti range to make the new ND range seem more of a step up. I would not have bought this atom/926 combo if it sounded like this when I bought it, not at all. It sounds absolutely terrible, and no, I'm not being dramatic. My muso sounded better, much better.

How is this legal?

 

 

Just been through several of my personal reference tracks using 2.6.1 and I'm so completely fed up and angry now. How would you feel if every time you listen to your £5,000 purchase you felt completely disappointed and depressed with the sound? That's not exactly throw away money for me, and now that's what it feels like I've done with it.

It sounds as boxy as a cheap soundbar with zero oomph. Everything just sounds so flat and unimpressive. I'm wondering if there's something more fundamentally wrong with my atom since the original 2.6 update, as I can't imagine anyone being in the slightest bit happy with this tripe.

dave-mac posted:

Another Focal user here who is definitely not happy. (Atom, focal 926, Chord epic)

The sound is still weak, nothing ever kicks in with any level of excitement, and the volume is still down by ~15%. I had tested this several times before and after the latest round of pathetic updates, it's not an illusion due to eq changes, it is several DB down at the same level, with the same tracks, in the exact same position.

I'm telling you, I'm 100% convinced Naim have nerfed the uniti range to make the new ND range seem more of a step up. I would not have bought this atom/926 combo if it sounded like this when I bought it, not at all. It sounds absolutely terrible, and no, I'm not being dramatic. My muso sounded better, much better.

How is this legal?

 

 

I also have the same setup (Focal Aria 926 + Atom). Just the cables are different. Mine are QED XT40.

But I've never noticed the reduction in power or volume installing new updates. Volume is always the same for me, not matter it is update 2.3, 2.6 or 2.6.1. Also, I've noticed much stronger and deeper bass with update 2.6.1 (on the contrary to other people who have the same setup). So maybe different units react differently to updates.

Can the problems be related to speaker cables? Or electricity in different regions. Mine is 230V, 50hz, Schuko plug.

I have just updated firmware to 2.6.1 and wow.Sound through my Nova ,PMC Twenty 24’s with chord epic cable is singing again .To my ears the sound is more dynamic with a more refined treble and bass than previously.Strange how opinions vary.For me the sound is back to a similar level to when I first got my Nova Three firmware updates ago .

i was following the thread “ 4.6 update and sound quality “.  Some were not satisfied by the update. 2 members installed again 4.3 update but after some days installed again the 4.6. For an unknown reason, this second 4.6 update was successful for sound quality:  the sound was now different from the first 4.6 update.

Perhaps some can try to install 2.3 back and after install again 2.6 1?   who knows, it may work.

French Rooster posted:

i was following the thread “ 4.6 update and sound quality “.  Some were not satisfied by the update. 2 members installed again 4.3 update but after some days installed again the 4.6. For an unknown reason, this second 4.6 update was successful for sound quality:  the sound was now different from the first 4.6 update.

Perhaps some can try to install 2.3 back and after install again 2.6 1?   who knows, it may work.

That's what I did and it sounds thin. I am not giving up yet though I have some ideas to try.

One other thing though 2 bugs with this firmware that I am getting, auto power offs the when listening to analogue input unless I turn it off in app. Had this with 2.3 they seemed to fix it on 2.6 but back again in 2.6 1. The other bug,  inputs stop responding completely so you cant change source, neither the remote or app can change it. Reboot is only option. 

 

I still feel I prefer 2.3 for overall warmth of the sound, but I'm now concluding that 2.6.1 is a big improvement on 2.6.

With 2.6 (and bearing in mind I up/downgraded numerous times to compare with 2.3) there was a distinct lack of bass/low mids - yes it was controlled but more neutered and polite than enjoyable.  2.6 was distinctly uninvolving for me and was like having a cheap radio on in the background.

2.6.1 like 2.6 has a flatter more forward soundstage (too 'in your face for me', prefer more depth).  There is less  warmth, and some harshness in the upper frequencies, BUT accepting less warmth (colouration) there is considerably better control and authority in bass/low mids that I'm finding very enjoyable.

I'm pretty convinced that the 'loss of volume' people found with 2.6 was due to more attenuated bass/low mids, but there is no such attenuation in 2.6.1 for me now (did a factory reset do this???), and more importantly foot tapping has returned when songs play and it's not fatiguing.

As noted, suspect I still prefer 2.3 overall but with some material 2.6.1 is starting to shine.

 

I noticed in another thread by @Obsydian that his unit has developed a popping sound through the speakers when powering on/off. Since 2.6, I also have that issue (mainly the left channel). I'm wondering if that's a clue as to something being wrong with our units since the updates, hence us both being unhappy with the sound. Does anyone else have the pop when powering up the unit?

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