Uniti Nova

Klout10 posted:

Not only a nightmare for dealers, also for Naim themselves ...

That's no doubt true - but Naim themselves made the decision to announce the new range before it was fully ready and stop producing the old one. In that sense whatever difficulties it's caused them are of their own making - not so the dealers....

No wonder that the "Introducing Uniti...." thread got closed back in March. Naim seem to have got themselves in a bit of a pickle this time. May I ask, Is Atom going to be out in June or November? Of this year I mean...

PS: Has the price really gone up by £150??

Kermit posted:

June, and yes it's gone up before launch! Quite incredible.

Thank you. Very incredible indeed. Looks like Naim have jumped on the "increase prices with the excuse of Brexit" bandwagon and are trying to recover some of the losses from the delays of release.  Quite sad because I was looking forward to the little Atom. But I'm afraid Naim have lost my custom in this case. Purely as a matter of principle.

Naim did what looked like a 10% increase across the board at either end of December or beginning of January. So the Atom, as well as the Star and Nova, got the hike, along with pretty much everything else. I'm fairly sure I saw the £1,750 price at dealers quite a few months ago.

iliria posted:
Kermit posted:

June, and yes it's gone up before launch! Quite incredible.

Thank you. Very incredible indeed. Looks like Naim have jumped on the "increase prices with the excuse of Brexit" bandwagon and are trying to recover some of the losses from the delays of release.  Quite sad because I was looking forward to the little Atom. But I'm afraid Naim have lost my custom in this case. Purely as a matter of principle.

Harsh. I like to consider myself a reasonable man and consider the price increase is more likely than not due the increased costs of imported components (pound down against the dollar as a consequence of brexit).

It is quite a unique situation where a product has been released and taken so long to arrive it has increased in price again and still not been released. Luckily I paid before the increase, but I can see why some people find the situation a bit distasteful.

Halloween Man posted:

Harsh. I like to consider myself a reasonable man and consider the price increase is more likely than not due the increased costs of imported components (pound down against the dollar as a consequence of brexit).

I am not usually in the habit of being this harsh but in this case I feel that Naim are just taking advantage. Brexit didnt just happen. It had happened at the time when Naim gave the news of the releasse of the Uniti lineup. In fact the £ vs € exchange rate has been 1:1.15 since June last year (source: XE.com). So the recent increasse in price makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.

ssmith posted:

It is quite a unique situation where a product has been released and taken so long to arrive it has increased in price again and still not been released. Luckily I paid before the increase, but I can see why some people find the situation a bit distasteful.

The even more remarkable part is how many of us have already paid! If my dealer were a Linn stockist, I'd probably be listening to music now, instead of posting here.

Increase before release! That is very unproffesional to be put it mildly

you can launch with a "introduction" or "pre order" pricing anniuncing it,thats i understand but increase the price of 6 month late release is looking very unprofessional

ooopppp we forgot to add the cost of this!

Halloween Man posted:
iliria posted:
Kermit posted:

June, and yes it's gone up before launch! Quite incredible.

Thank you. Very incredible indeed. Looks like Naim have jumped on the "increase prices with the excuse of Brexit" bandwagon and are trying to recover some of the losses from the delays of release.  Quite sad because I was looking forward to the little Atom. But I'm afraid Naim have lost my custom in this case. Purely as a matter of principle.

Harsh. I like to consider myself a reasonable man and consider the price increase is more likely than not due the increased costs of imported components (pound down against the dollar as a consequence of brexit).

Other than the pound has risen against the dollar and slightly risen against the Euro since the Uniti prices were announced late last year...

It could only go up after dropping to a 30 year low as a consequence of Brexit. Prior to Brexit, pound was stable, averaging around 1.55 to the dollar for years. So far this year it's averaged around 1.25.  That change will bound to impact Naim. Perhaps when Naim first priced the new uniti range the increased costs hadn't fully kicked in or been accounted for and therefore a belated adjustment had to be made. 

I'm not sure about the pound's relationship with the euro, but I think you'll find that the change in relation to the dollar is largely because the dollar has fallen as confidence in Trump ability to develop a coherent economic policy has collapsed.

Clive

Could you all stop whinging please?

 It seems to be lost on a lot of people that Naim are not a charity,  not a community group or not at Co-op. 

Ultimately the market will decide if Naim have overpriced these products. I think they'll sell by the bucketload. 

.sjb

well said 

It must be hurting them too,  with folks holding off purchases to hear what these new players are like in relation to their impending / proposed purchases of other gear in the range

If I was about to push the button on a 272 / 200 to listen to vinyl on as well, I'd be looking at demoing a deck way higher up the range to hear what the difference would sound like with say an RP8/Aria/Nova instead of current old Planar3/fono/272/200    

and it wont be too long before I'm doing just that. 

Christopher_M posted:
Sloop John B posted:

Could you all stop whinging please?

Totally agree with you Sloop but this is social media where, it seems, the consumers' right to vent is paramount. And they will. And they do.

 Of course, just like they have the right to sing praises to a company that is able to manage bringing a nice product out with no issues and at a decent price.

If people have paid in advance for a product that they were told was coming out months ago and they still havent received it they have every right to "whinge" as much as they please. Unless of course you and John B expect us to sing blind praises to Naim even when they mess up royally.

iliria posted:
Of course, just like they have the right to sing praises to a company that is able to manage bringing a nice product out with no issues and at a decent price.

If people have paid in advance for a product that they were told was coming out months ago and they still havent received it they have every right to "whinge" as much as they please. Unless of course you and John B expect us to sing blind praises to Naim even when they mess up royally.

I'm really surprised how partisan this forum is. Naim is a hi fi manufacturer - I was under the impression that it's customers were consumers - it feels more like a sect!

I first bought a Naim product in 1989 - and have had several since - but having paid for an Atom some time ago, I don't think the company has done a good job at keeping customers informed. If saying that gets me excommunicated - then so be it.... 

In my opinion Naim have been absolutely crap at keeping customers and dealers informed of what's going on, and completely botched the launch. But that's now water under the bridge; the units are nearly ready and when I heard an Atom it sounded super. I'm rather surprised anyone would pay upfront though. I've never paid upfront, or even paid a deposit, for any Naim box I've bought, and I've bought far too many over the years. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

In my opinion Naim have been absolutely crap at keeping customers and dealers informed of what's going on, and completely botched the launch. .....

if this is true, then this is worrying. but here is hoping that this is a one-off ?

enjoy

ken 

 

Hungryhalibut posted:

In my opinion Naim have been absolutely crap at keeping customers and dealers informed of what's going on, and completely botched the launch. But that's now water under the bridge; the units are nearly ready and when I heard an Atom it sounded super. I'm rather surprised anyone would pay upfront though. I've never paid upfront, or even paid a deposit, for any Naim box I've bought, and I've bought far too many over the years. 

I rang my dealer today to check whether they'd managed to get confirmed dates for their demo Nova, as I had a Nova/Atom demo booked for 23rd June. In the end I read them Ryan Latham's posts from Munich as I had more info than they had. I've cancelled that demo as it seems unlikely they'll have a Nova, I'll book one when tthey get another date. I felt really sorry for them, they're Naim's route to market and they have no way of keeping customers informed.

OK, most (I believe) would suggest that Naim have screwed up on the launch of the new Uniti products, and I wouldn't necessarily disagree. They, privately, would admit as much I would wager. I would also bet that the delays are a mixture of poor planning, a degree of inexperience with the technologies, reliance on third parties to do their bit and an obsession in getting the best SQ possible.

I have spent most of my working life in customer service and selling roles and am well acquainted with the 'customer is king' ethic. Yes, the customer must come first. But I don't believe Naim have purposely treated customers badly although I would accept the communication has been poor and that is something that could easily be addressed. I suspect the communication with customers over such issues in the future will be better. The price hike I guess would have upset some and the timing was very unfortunate. But I don't get the feeing that they are attempting to rip their customers off. Just simply trying to recover costs and maintain reasonable margins is the impression I get and have always had. And if we want Naim to survive in a competitive market then they must make a reasonable return.

The customer is king but also the product is king is this niche market. Naim are refusing to launch until the SQ is as good as it can be. Yes, I suspect there are other factors delaying the launch as I elude to above. But if you want the best money can buy, sometimes you have to be patient and forgive one or two boo boos along the way. Naim are a top quality manufacturer of hifi equipment. They are not a PR company (although I would accept some advice in this area might help), nor are they arrogant. They are also learning to develop and enhance these (streaming) technologies.

Go elsewhere if you are that annoyed but you will be missing out on the best all-in-one digital hifi at this price point - IMHO of course.

iliria posted:
Christopher_M posted:
Sloop John B posted:

Could you all stop whinging please?

Totally agree with you Sloop but this is social media where, it seems, the consumers' right to vent is paramount. And they will. And they do.

 Of course, just like they have the right to sing praises to a company that is able to manage bringing a nice product out with no issues and at a decent price.

If people have paid in advance for a product that they were told was coming out months ago and they still havent received it they have every right to "whinge" as much as they please. Unless of course you and John B expect us to sing blind praises to Naim even when they mess up royally.

Certainly not. If I was as hacked off as some of you I'd buy from another manufacturer rather than whinge.

Christopher_M posted:

Certainly not. If I was as hacked off as some of you I'd buy from another manufacturer rather than whinge.

Oh, rest assured I intend to. However it doesnt stop me from expressing my disappointment with their cock-up. As for your logic, anything that doesnt sing praises to Naim is whinging and that makes no sense.

iliria posted:
Christopher_M posted:

Certainly not. If I was as hacked off as some of you I'd buy from another manufacturer rather than whinge.

Oh, rest assured I intend to. However it doesnt stop me from expressing my disappointment with their cock-up. As for your logic, anything that doesnt sing praises to Naim is whinging and that makes no sense.

Nonsense. Naim are human and have cocked-up stuff of mine. I've made a fuss privately. They've been sorted with good grace. Easy.

Christopher_M posted:

Nonsense. Naim are human and have cocked-up stuff of mine. I've made a fuss privately. They've been sorted with good grace. Easy.

Well, what sort of grace do you propose they use to sor this cockup out then? Honour the originial price perhaps? Doubt that very much. Or offer the HDMI upgrade at half price at those who buy the Atom in the first month of releasse perhaps? I doubt that very much too...

nigelb posted:
They are also learning to develop and enhance these (streaming) technologies.

 

What worries me the most is just that. The fact that this is the first time they've incorportaed these new technologies and they've already got stuff wrong.

iliria posted:
Christopher_M posted:

Nonsense. Naim are human and have cocked-up stuff of mine. I've made a fuss privately. They've been sorted with good grace. Easy.

Well, what sort of grace do you propose they use to sor this cockup out then? Honour the originial price perhaps? Doubt that very much. Or offer the HDMI upgrade at half price at those who buy the Atom in the first month of releasse perhaps? I doubt that very much too...

Nothing I can say can help you.

nigelb posted:

OK, most (I believe) would suggest that Naim have screwed up on the launch of the new Uniti products, and I wouldn't necessarily disagree. They, privately, would admit as much I would wager. I would also bet that the delays are a mixture of poor planning, a degree of inexperience with the technologies, reliance on third parties to do their bit and an obsession in getting the best SQ possible.

I have spent most of my working life in customer service and selling roles and am well acquainted with the 'customer is king' ethic. Yes, the customer must come first. But I don't believe Naim have purposely treated customers badly although I would accept the communication has been poor and that is something that could easily be addressed. I suspect the communication with customers over such issues in the future will be better. The price hike I guess would have upset some and the timing was very unfortunate. But I don't get the feeing that they are attempting to rip their customers off. Just simply trying to recover costs and maintain reasonable margins is the impression I get and have always had. And if we want Naim to survive in a competitive market then they must make a reasonable return.

The customer is king but also the product is king is this niche market. Naim are refusing to launch until the SQ is as good as it can be. Yes, I suspect there are other factors delaying the launch as I elude to above. But if you want the best money can buy, sometimes you have to be patient and forgive one or two boo boos along the way. Naim are a top quality manufacturer of hifi equipment. They are not a PR company (although I would accept some advice in this area might help), nor are they arrogant. They are also learning to develop and enhance these (streaming) technologies.

Go elsewhere if you are that annoyed but you will be missing out on the best all-in-one digital hifi at this price point - IMHO of course.

I don't think that the new Uniti range is intended to be a niche product, rather a step up from the Mu-so and appealing to that consumer. I think this type of consumer will not wait and Naim have massively shot themselves in the foot. Obviously sound quality is important but they are more hindered by licensing certification, which even still hasnt been completed even though, the product is due to ship in the next six days.

Part of the problem seems to me that Naim are living in a fantasy land. Every deadline is missed in comical fashion, from firmware that is a year and a half late to products that are 7-8 months late. After all this you would think that on occasion they could send a group email keeping people updated. 

 

I was speaking to a dealer Monday evening, who told me Naim have pallets-full of Unitis sitting in Salisbury ready to ship. Not sure how reliable this is, but according to the dealer, all of the delay's are the fault of Google and licensing their chromecast technology. Naim can't ship until the license agreement is signed.

Could be the dealer was just spreading rumors, but if he wasn't than this explains Naim's silence. They can't really communicate to the public that they're being delayed by obnoxious lawyers at Google can they? They'd loose the license. So they have to keep quiet and eat the blame from the customers. If this is true, and I was Naim, I'd be seething.

perizoqui posted:

I was speaking to a dealer Monday evening, who told me Naim have pallets-full of Unitis sitting in Salisbury ready to ship. Not sure how reliable this is, but according to the dealer, all of the delay's are the fault of Google and licensing their chromecast technology. Naim can't ship until the license agreement is signed.

Could be the dealer was just spreading rumors, but if he wasn't than this explains Naim's silence. They can't really communicate to the public that they're being delayed by obnoxious lawyers at Google can they? They'd loose the license. So they have to keep quiet and eat the blame from the customers. If this is true, and I was Naim, I'd be seething.

Yet if they had got the certification before launching the products they would be in a far stronger position. I don't think they have any right to annoyed, the problem is of their own making.

ssmith posted:
nigelb posted:

OK, most (I believe) would suggest that Naim have screwed up on the launch of the new Uniti products, and I wouldn't necessarily disagree. They, privately, would admit as much I would wager. I would also bet that the delays are a mixture of poor planning, a degree of inexperience with the technologies, reliance on third parties to do their bit and an obsession in getting the best SQ possible.

I have spent most of my working life in customer service and selling roles and am well acquainted with the 'customer is king' ethic. Yes, the customer must come first. But I don't believe Naim have purposely treated customers badly although I would accept the communication has been poor and that is something that could easily be addressed. I suspect the communication with customers over such issues in the future will be better. The price hike I guess would have upset some and the timing was very unfortunate. But I don't get the feeing that they are attempting to rip their customers off. Just simply trying to recover costs and maintain reasonable margins is the impression I get and have always had. And if we want Naim to survive in a competitive market then they must make a reasonable return.

The customer is king but also the product is king is this niche market. Naim are refusing to launch until the SQ is as good as it can be. Yes, I suspect there are other factors delaying the launch as I elude to above. But if you want the best money can buy, sometimes you have to be patient and forgive one or two boo boos along the way. Naim are a top quality manufacturer of hifi equipment. They are not a PR company (although I would accept some advice in this area might help), nor are they arrogant. They are also learning to develop and enhance these (streaming) technologies.

Go elsewhere if you are that annoyed but you will be missing out on the best all-in-one digital hifi at this price point - IMHO of course.

I don't think that the new Uniti range is intended to be a niche product, rather a step up from the Mu-so and appealing to that consumer. I think this type of consumer will not wait and Naim have massively shot themselves in the foot. Obviously sound quality is important but they are more hindered by licensing certification, which even still hasnt been completed even though, the product is due to ship in the next six days.

Part of the problem seems to me that Naim are living in a fantasy land. Every deadline is missed in comical fashion, from firmware that is a year and a half late to products that are 7-8 months late. After all this you would think that on occasion they could send a group email keeping people updated. 

 

At over £4000 for the one-box Nova, yes it certainly is a niche product. There are not that many direct competitors and I would suggest very few, if any, can compete on SQ grounds, although I prepared to be proven wrong here. I believe people are prepared to wait for what I believe will be a landmark product.

Who knows what really is the main cause of the delay. I am sure it is not one single gremlin. If it is idiots at Google then why expect Naim to preempt this? I do agree that communication from Naim over the delay has been an issue which I did acknowledge in my previous post.

If you are buying an exceptional product in any sector then most are prepared to wait. If you are not prepared to wait, then go buy an unexceptional product. Simple!

perizoqui posted:

I was speaking to a dealer Monday evening, who told me Naim have pallets-full of Unitis sitting in Salisbury ready to ship. Not sure how reliable this is, but according to the dealer, all of the delay's are the fault of Google and licensing their chromecast technology. Naim can't ship until the license agreement is signed.

Could be the dealer was just spreading rumors, but if he wasn't than this explains Naim's silence. They can't really communicate to the public that they're being delayed by obnoxious lawyers at Google can they? They'd loose the license. So they have to keep quiet and eat the blame from the customers. If this is true, and I was Naim, I'd be seething.

naim is just putting hundred of units in his big bomber and will parachute them all over the world !  

nigelb posted:
ssmith posted:
nigelb posted:

OK, most (I believe) would suggest that Naim have screwed up on the launch of the new Uniti products, and I wouldn't necessarily disagree. They, privately, would admit as much I would wager. I would also bet that the delays are a mixture of poor planning, a degree of inexperience with the technologies, reliance on third parties to do their bit and an obsession in getting the best SQ possible.

I have spent most of my working life in customer service and selling roles and am well acquainted with the 'customer is king' ethic. Yes, the customer must come first. But I don't believe Naim have purposely treated customers badly although I would accept the communication has been poor and that is something that could easily be addressed. I suspect the communication with customers over such issues in the future will be better. The price hike I guess would have upset some and the timing was very unfortunate. But I don't get the feeing that they are attempting to rip their customers off. Just simply trying to recover costs and maintain reasonable margins is the impression I get and have always had. And if we want Naim to survive in a competitive market then they must make a reasonable return.

The customer is king but also the product is king is this niche market. Naim are refusing to launch until the SQ is as good as it can be. Yes, I suspect there are other factors delaying the launch as I elude to above. But if you want the best money can buy, sometimes you have to be patient and forgive one or two boo boos along the way. Naim are a top quality manufacturer of hifi equipment. They are not a PR company (although I would accept some advice in this area might help), nor are they arrogant. They are also learning to develop and enhance these (streaming) technologies.

Go elsewhere if you are that annoyed but you will be missing out on the best all-in-one digital hifi at this price point - IMHO of course.

I don't think that the new Uniti range is intended to be a niche product, rather a step up from the Mu-so and appealing to that consumer. I think this type of consumer will not wait and Naim have massively shot themselves in the foot. Obviously sound quality is important but they are more hindered by licensing certification, which even still hasnt been completed even though, the product is due to ship in the next six days.

Part of the problem seems to me that Naim are living in a fantasy land. Every deadline is missed in comical fashion, from firmware that is a year and a half late to products that are 7-8 months late. After all this you would think that on occasion they could send a group email keeping people updated. 

 

At over £4000 for the one-box Nova, yes it certainly is a niche product. There are not that many direct competitors and I would suggest very few, if any, can compete on SQ grounds, although I prepared to be proven wrong here. I believe people are prepared to wait for what I believe will be a landmark product.

Who knows what really is the main cause of the delay. I am sure it is not one single gremlin. If it is idiots at Google then why expect Naim to preempt this? I do agree that communication from Naim over the delay has been an issue which I did acknowledge in my previous post.

If you are buying an exceptional product in any sector then most are prepared to wait. If you are not prepared to wait, then go buy an unexceptional product. Simple!

I was thinking more of the Atom which is the price of a high speck MacBook. After all this hopefully it does sound good.  

ssmith posted:
nigelb posted:

OK, most (I believe) would suggest that Naim have screwed up on the launch of the new Uniti products, and I wouldn't necessarily disagree. They, privately, would admit as much I would wager. I would also bet that the delays are a mixture of poor planning, a degree of inexperience with the technologies, reliance on third parties to do their bit and an obsession in getting the best SQ possible.

I have spent most of my working life in customer service and selling roles and am well acquainted with the 'customer is king' ethic. Yes, the customer must come first. But I don't believe Naim have purposely treated customers badly although I would accept the communication has been poor and that is something that could easily be addressed. I suspect the communication with customers over such issues in the future will be better. The price hike I guess would have upset some and the timing was very unfortunate. But I don't get the feeing that they are attempting to rip their customers off. Just simply trying to recover costs and maintain reasonable margins is the impression I get and have always had. And if we want Naim to survive in a competitive market then they must make a reasonable return.

The customer is king but also the product is king is this niche market. Naim are refusing to launch until the SQ is as good as it can be. Yes, I suspect there are other factors delaying the launch as I elude to above. But if you want the best money can buy, sometimes you have to be patient and forgive one or two boo boos along the way. Naim are a top quality manufacturer of hifi equipment. They are not a PR company (although I would accept some advice in this area might help), nor are they arrogant. They are also learning to develop and enhance these (streaming) technologies.

Go elsewhere if you are that annoyed but you will be missing out on the best all-in-one digital hifi at this price point - IMHO of course.

I don't think that the new Uniti range is intended to be a niche product, rather a step up from the Mu-so and appealing to that consumer. I think this type of consumer will not wait and Naim have massively shot themselves in the foot. Obviously sound quality is important but they are more hindered by licensing certification, which even still hasnt been completed even though, the product is due to ship in the next six days.

Part of the problem seems to me that Naim are living in a fantasy land. Every deadline is missed in comical fashion, from firmware that is a year and a half late to products that are 7-8 months late. After all this you would think that on occasion they could send a group email keeping people updated. 

 

Absolutely, according to Naim the new Uniti range is address its new growing market of non traditional enthusiast / audiophiles and a growing preference for integrated devices but with minimum quality loss that is otherwise associated with integrated devices. It's shown as a stepping stone to the Naim DNA of having full separation but is seen as a parallel tree in parts to the Classic series. Naim had/have an effective slide illustrating this.

Likes (0)
×
×
×
×